[Closed] wayde van niekerk

do we reckon Michal Johnson is clean, well for a record to stand that long must be something going on, you know smoke and fire and all that....

I don't think he's come out of nowhere either, people in the know have been talking him up for a while.

As above he's not out of no-where. Wonderful run.

Sadly this is the insinuation for anyone that goes faster than anyone has ever gone before now. They all used to cheat so they must be cheating now.

What about the Belgian heptathlete - 5 PBs out of 7 events when it really mattered?

I don't agree, BTW - training hard, tapering well and peaking at the right time is as much of the game as technique, skill and stamina nowadays.

yeah i read somewhere that he ran the 7th fastest time in history last year - a time that Johnson himself only beat 3 times ever. So that's not a shocker.

I don't know if cycling has ruined sport for me, but I've always wondered about Johnson's record anyway - I'm always really sceptical about any monster performances from the 80's and 90's 😕

One thing benefiting MJ was his unique style presumably inherited from a somewhat different physiology to his competitors. Van Niekirk's clearly got the Lord involved in his training programme and that may do wonders for his self belief.

Very little suspicious noise about him around at the moment, and even Ross Tucker says "no evidence for skepticism" - https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/765093392640569344?lang=en-gb - unlike Mo and Rupp

While we're on the subject, this is a great read: http://sportsscientists.com/2016/08/world-records-fossils/

What's "clean"?

Isn't it easier to think in terms of shades of grey?

Why pick on a SA athlete? How about Ledecky's difference from the pack - ok she's white and American 😯

And we - Team [s]UK[/s] GB have surpassed expectations too..........

I can't help but notice a selective approach to questioning performances at the Olympics- see also the woman's 10K (I think?) a few days ago. There's a few records been smashed in the pool but I don't see people instantly questioning them.
(I know the records situation is different in swimming though.)

EDIT As per teamhurtmore's post the colour/nationality of the athlete is a bit of an elephant in the room here.

Also there has been great leaps in the area of Sports Science, understanding of human physiology, nutrition, training techniques - physical as well as mental, and more personalised training regimes to get the best out of individuals. It's just far more professional, data driven and scientific than it ever has been. This will undoubtedly lead to raising the bar in terms of athletes performances.

Thanks Teaboy, that fossils article is an excellent read.

w'scott - interesting but also enjoyed the refreshing comments from Ben Ryan

Ryan has actually spent much of the past three years professing the Fijian way of life and how different it was from his time with the RFU and England. From Coach Education sessions with UR7s to talks to Loughborough University, [b]Ryan has not hidden his love for everything Fiji in comparison to HQ of Twickenham[/b]....

“But I came to Fiji and I just got back to basics again. I stripped away all the other stuff that sometimes comes with these programmes, too many people, too many layers – I have simple leadership, we have a very simple framework of what we do. We set simple standards, everybody knows what’s going on, there’s no politics around our group of players or our management – and it works.”

I assume we have already discussed the other records and their new holders?

Sport
Previous Record
New Record
Records
Archery Men's Individual
KOR KIM Woojin 700
on 5 August

Shooting 10m Air Rifle Women
CHN DU Li 420.7
on 6 August
Shooting 10m Air Rifle Women
USA THRASHER Virginia 208.0
on 6 August
Shooting 10m Air Pistol Men
VIE HOANG Xuan Vinh 202.5
on 6 August
Swimming Women's 400m Individual Medley CHN YE Shiwen 4:28.43
Olympic Games
HUN HOSSZU Katinka 4:26.36
on 6 August

Swimming Women's 4 x 100m Freestyle Relay AUS 3:30.98
Commonwealth Games
AUS Australia 3:30.65
on 6 August
Swimming Women's 4 x 100m Freestyle Relay AUS 3:33.15
Olympic Games
AUS Australia 3:30.65
on 6 August
Shooting 10m Air Pistol Women
CHN ZHANG Mengxue 199.4
on 7 August
Weightlifting Women's 53kg CHN YANG Yang 100kg
Olympic Games
CHN LI Yajun 101kg
on 7 August
Weightlifting Men's 56kg PRK OM Yun Chol 168kg
Olympic Games
PRK OM Yun Chol 169kg
on 7 August
Weightlifting Men's 56kg PRK OM Yun Chol 168kg
Olympic Games
CHN LONG Qingquan 170kg
on 7 August
Weightlifting Men's 56kg TUR MUTLU Mutlu 305kg
Olympic Games
CHN LONG Qingquan 307kg
on 7 August

Swimming Women's 100m Butterfly SWE SJOSTROM Sarah 55.64s
World Championships
SWE SJOSTROM Sarah 55.48s
on 7 August
Swimming Women's 100m Butterfly USA VOLLMER Dana 55.98s
Olympic Games
SWE SJOSTROM Sarah 55.48s
on 7 August
Swimming Men's 100m Breaststroke GBR PEATY Adam 57.92s
British Championships
GBR PEATY Adam 57.13s
on 7 August
Swimming Men's 100m Breaststroke RSA VAN DER BURGH Cameron 58.46s
Olympic Games
GBR PEATY Adam 57.13s
on 7 August
Swimming Women's 400m Freestyle USA LEDECKY Katie 3:58.37
Pan Pacific Championships
USA LEDECKY Katie 3:56.46
on 7 August
Swimming Women's 400m Freestyle FRA MUFFAT Muffat 4:01.45
Olympic Games
USA LEDECKY Katie 3:56.46
on 7 August
Shooting 10m Air Rifle Men
ITA CAMPRIANI Niccolo 206.1
on 8 August
Weightlifting Women's 58kg CHN LI Li 108kg
Olympic Games
THA SRISURAT Sukanya 110kg
on 8 August
Swimming Women's 100m Breaststroke AUS JONES Jones 1:05.17
Olympic Games
USA KING Lilly 1:04.93
on 8 August
Shooting 25m Pistol Women KOR KIM Jangmi 591
Olympic Games
CHN ZHANG Jingjing 592
on 9 August
Weightlifting Women's 63kg UKR SKAKUN Skakun 135kg
Olympic Games
PRK CHOE Hyo Sim 143kg
on 9 August
Weightlifting Women's 63kg UKR SKAKUN Skakun 135kg
Olympic Games
CHN DENG Wei 147kg
on 9 August
Weightlifting Women's 63kg KAZ MANEZA Maneza 245kg
Olympic Games
CHN DENG Wei 262kg
on 9 August
Weightlifting Women's 63kg CHN DENG Wei 146kg
World Championships
CHN DENG Wei 147kg
on 9 August
Weightlifting Women's 63kg TPE LIN Tzu-Chi 261kg
Asian Games
CHN DENG Wei 262kg
on 9 August
Swimming Men's 200m Breaststroke HUN GYURTA Daniel 2:07.28
Olympic Games
JPN WATANABE Ippei 2:07.22
on 9 August
Swimming Women's 200m Individual Medley CHN YE Shiwen 2:07.57
Olympic Games
HUN HOSSZU Katinka 2:06.58
on 9 August
Shooting Double Trap Men
GER LOEW Andreas 140
on 10 August
Shooting Double Trap Men
AUS WILLETT James 140
on 10 August
Shooting 50m Pistol Men
KOR JIN Jongoh 193.7
on 10 August
Weightlifting Men's 77kg CHN LYU Xiaojun 175kg
Olympic Games
CHN LYU Xiaojun 177kg
on 10 August
Weightlifting Men's 77kg CHN LYU Xiaojun 176kg
World Championships
CHN LYU Xiaojun 177kg
on 10 August
Weightlifting Men's 77kg CHN ZHAN Zhan 207kg
Olympic Games
KAZ RAHIMOV Nijat 214kg
on 10 August
Weightlifting Men's 77kg RUS PEREPECHENOV Perepechenov 210kg
European Championshi
KAZ RAHIMOV Nijat 214kg
on 10 August
Shooting 50m Rifle 3 Positions Women
ITA ZUBLASING Petra 589
on 11 August
Shooting 50m Rifle 3 Positions Women
GER ENGLEDER Barbara 458.6
on 11 August
Cycling Track Men's Team Sprint GBR 42.600s
GBR Great Britain 42.440s
on 11 August
Swimming Women's 100m Freestyle NED KROMOWIDJOJO Ranomi 53.00s
Olympic Games
CAN OLEKSIAK Penny 52.70s
on 11 August
Swimming Women's 100m Freestyle NED KROMOWIDJOJO Ranomi 53.00s
Olympic Games
USA MANUEL Simone 52.70s
on 11 August
Shooting Skeet Women
CHN WEI Meng 73
on 12 August
Shooting 50m Rifle Prone Men
RUS KAMENSKIY Sergey 629.0
on 12 August
Shooting 50m Rifle Prone Men
GER JUNGHAENEL Henri 209.5
on 12 August
Athletics Women's 10,000m ETH DIBABA Tirunesh 29:54.66
Olympic Games
ETH AYANA Almaz 29:17.45
on 12 August
Athletics Women's 10,000m CHN WANG Wang 29:31.78
ETH AYANA Almaz 29:17.45
on 12 August
Cycling Track Men's Sprint GBR KENNY Jason 9.713s
GBR SKINNER Callum 9.703s
on 12 August
Cycling Track Men's Sprint GBR KENNY Jason 9.713s
GBR KENNY Jason 9.551s
on 12 August
Cycling Track Women's Team Sprint CHN 32.422s
CHN Gong / Zhong 31.928s
on 12 August
Cycling Track Women's Team Sprint CHN 32.034s
CHN Gong / Zhong 31.928s
on 12 August
Cycling Track Men's Team Pursuit GBR 3:51.659
GBR Great Britain 3:50.265
on 12 August

Weightlifting Men's 85kg GRE DIMAS Dimas 215kg
Olympic Games
CHN TIAN Tao 217kg
on 12 August
Weightlifting Men's 85kg BLR RYBAKOU Rybakou 394kg
Olympic Games
CHN TIAN Tao 395kg
on 12 August
Weightlifting Men's 85kg IRI ROSTAMI Kianoush 395kg
IWF Grand Prix
IRI ROSTAMI Kianoush 396kg
on 12 August
Weightlifting Men's 85kg BLR RYBAKOU Rybakou 394kg
Olympic Games
IRI ROSTAMI Kianoush 396kg
on 12 August
Swimming Men's 100m Butterfly USA PHELPS Michael 50.58s
Olympic Games
SIN SCHOOLING Joseph 50.39s
on 12 August
Swimming Women's 800m Freestyle GBR ADLINGTON Adlington 8:14.10
Olympic Games
USA LEDECKY Katie 8:04.79
on 12 August
Swimming Women's 800m Freestyle USA LEDECKY Katie 8:06.68
USA LEDECKY Katie 8:04.79
on 12 August
Rowing Men's Single Sculls BEL MAEYENS Maeyens 6:42.52
Olympic Games
NZL DRYSDALE Mahe 6:41.34
on 13 August
Cycling Track Women's Team Pursuit POL Poland 4:28.988
USA United States 4:12.282
on 13 August
Cycling Track Women's Team Pursuit AUS 4:13.683
USA United States 4:12.282
on 13 August
Shooting Skeet Men
SWE SVENSSON Marcus 123
on 13 August
Shooting Skeet Men
IOA ALRASHIDI Abdullah 123
on 13 August
Cycling Track Women's Team Pursuit AUS 4:13.683
GBR Great Britain 4:10.236
on 13 August
Cycling Track Women's Team Pursuit POL Poland 4:28.988
GBR Great Britain 4:10.236
on 13 August
Swimming Men's 100m Backstroke USA GREVERS Grevers 52.16s
Olympic Games
USA MURPHY Ryan 51.85s
on 13 August
Swimming Men's 100m Backstroke USA PEIRSOL Peirsol 51.94s
United States Championships
USA MURPHY Ryan 51.85s
on 13 August
Swimming Men's 4 x 100m Medley Relay USA 3:29.34
Olympic Games
USA United States 3:27.95
on 13 August
Shooting 50m Rifle 3 Positions Men
RUS KAMENSKIY Sergey 1184
on 14 August
Shooting 50m Rifle 3 Positions Men
ITA CAMPRIANI Niccolo 458.8
on 14 August
Cycling Track Women's Sprint GBR PENDLETON Pendleton 10.724s
GBR JAMES Rebecca 10.721s
on 14 August
Cycling Track Men's Omnium GBR WIGGINS Bradley 4:15.031
DEN HANSEN Lasse Norman 4:14.982
on 14 August
Athletics Men's 400m USA JOHNSON Johnson 43.18s
World Championships
RSA VAN NIEKERK Wayde 43.03s
on 14 August
Athletics Men's 400m USA JOHNSON Johnson 43.49s
Olympic Games
RSA VAN NIEKERK Wayde 43.03s
on 14 August

What's "clean"?

I can't help reserving judgement on a lot of exceptional sporting performances, having seen most of the cycling heroes of my younger days exposed as cheats, or having so much dodgy baggage it's difficult to believe they were not cheating.

At elite level, the competition is so intense and the margins so small that it is rare to have individuals who consistently out-perform their peers by a significant margin. Of course genuine outliers do occur and some people are just better at peaking for the big event.

I don't agree with the clueless "must be doping" internet noise, but I think it is healthy to look critically at really exceptional results and retain a healthy scepticism.

"I assume we have already discussed the other records and their new holders?"

Unlikely because
1) Many of these are incremental, WVN broke a 17 yr old record
2) Many of these are niche sports about which the general public has little understand, whereas Athletics is comparatively mainstream
3) Athletics has a very public history of doping so is therefore justifiably like cycling open to criticism
4) He's not British, so must be on the sauce

[img] [/img]

5) as my first post we really should be questioning all those long standing records too 😉 Let the testers do their jobs.

Do we reckon he's clean? To come out of nowhere and smash Michael Johnson's 400m record by such a margin. Can't help but think something fishy is going on.

Ah I remember Loddrik Holmes from his previous detailed investigative work
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/and-the-first-openly-gay-premier-league-player-is

I ran a 400m once...there arn't enough drugs in the world for me to want to run another one.