[Closed] Was Uni Worth it?

Nah.

i have a degree and still have a student loan 15years later never having met the earnings threshold, it might help get a first job, but is no guarantee and with the way degrees are now devalued by weight of numbers probably of lesser value every year.

You might be better off looking at getting a apprenticeship and going that route. I guess it depends on where you want to go but apart from medicine i really can't think of many non research/academic jobs that demand a degree for any reason other than as a way of weeding out applicants.

For me I had a great time, did a bit of growing up and opened up a career that I couldn't have undertaken without one.

I get the impression now though that there are more ways than just Uni of getting into a decent job so other options might be equally or more viable.

e-mail me I am a career advisor and I will go into great detail if required my view
1. Unless you do something vocational with a guaranteed return there is little point
2. Unless you are going to get a good degree first or 2:1]there is little point. Having a Third in marketting wont get you a job in marketting.
3.The old link between higher earnings an degree will have all but gone now if you remove 1 from the equation IMHO it will take about 20 years to know for sure.
4. Many trades pay very well for very short training courses Electrician for examle [ plumbing is a bit of a myth]
5. Outside teaching very few people I know actually need their degree to do their job but it may have helped them get the job initially.
6. People are now not going as they have older siblings with large debts and crappy jobs so they dont see the point
7. apprenticheship via employment is a viaable solution/alternative. Doing a two year course at college to make you qualified is largely pointless as there are no jobs to go in to. See Motor vehicle an hairdressing,child care, bricklaying, beaity Therpahy, sports coaching [ end up on th ecounter ata gym] or animal care. I suspect we graduate about 30-50% of the number of those actually employed in those fields each year [animal care is probably about 200%]- basically know your LMI labour market Information

Over all probably not but dependent on choice of degree course and likely grade

no

I've got a BEng (Hons) 2:1 in mechanical engineering. If I had my time again, I'd just get a job and experience or maybe an apprenticeship. Really not worth the time and money in my experience.

It was one expensive hangover for me...
I dropped out and stumbled into a bike shop and am very happy. I'd say of the amount of my friends that got good degrees - with a good result - 2.1's and firsts only 50% have actually managed to get jobs relating to their qualifications.
The wife and a fair few of our friends have just been doing bar work and retail whilst something better comes along. On the other hand a lot of them have started doing more training and qualifications to build up their knowledge and therefore giving them an edge on the competition, but it all costs.

As a country we need to get away from the whole got to go get a degree straight from A-levels nonsense. The whole got to go to uni thing prob has more to do with our nations funny views on class than any real need.

As a country we need to get away from the whole got to go get a degree straight from A-levels nonsense

I agree.. I can't help thinking that there may be a danger of this system generating a workforce with a quite narrow view of their surroundings..

Was for me. Degree in oceanography, have worked in the field for the last 12 yrs. Will continue to do so.

I think you need to really pick the right degree these days for it to be worthwhile.

lol there i was reading through this thread sitting on my high horse, and then,

I've got a BEng (Hons) 2:1 in mechanical engineering. If I had my time again, I'd just get a job and experience or maybe an apprenticeship. Really not worth the time and money in my experience.

balls 🙁 . to be fair though im enjoying university at the moment, who knows whats going to happen afterwards? I dont see the point of coming to university to study a weak subject though. i mean, its fun and all that, but i could think of way better ways to spend >£5000 a year.

I woon't for one second pay any attention to Junky's post, or indeed anyone attaching any sort of economic value to going to university. Is that seriously all it means to you? Pound notes??

It's all about developing the [b]mind[/b]. Which, if you have the aptitude for what's in store, is worth it at any price.

Not sure if it was a good thing or bad really.

Degree is worthless, a 3rd in an environmental based nonsense.
Got me to where I am now, but I would never have gone to uni when I did if I hadn't felt the pressure that was on me to go and follow the crowd.

Terrible time really, I was out of control at university and chose a rather interesting path in life which did create a lot of adventures and fun, but also made me into the person I am now, which is very different to the one ten years ago.

I wouldn't do it again, not at 18 years old, I would do it again when I was 30.
Which in a way I did with my PGCE and ITT.

I woon't for one second pay any attention to Junky's post, or indeed anyone attaching any sort of economic value to going to university. Is that seriously all it means to you? Pound notes??

I've got two kids and panic every time I think how much it will cost to send them to Uni.

However, I've recently started to question whether university is still worth it.

Seems to be working out for me.

In my 7th year now studying to be an architect, although my last 3 years have been part time whilst wokring in practice full time. For me, going to university was about having a path mapped out. I couldn't see my self doing a degree that didnt have a clear career at the end of it all.

historically yes, currently no.

crikey, i'm agreeing with elfin... its not [i]just[/i] about getting a job. its a valuabe (if expensive) experience - broadens the mind, meet a massive range of people from a huge variety of backgrounds/ethnicities/nationalities, build future contacts, develop interests with those around you who have the same (and different) interests, get a recognisable qualification which, like it or not, is valuable, go boozing, go shagging, become involved politically/socially/charitably etc etc etc etc.

its not for everyone, but i think it should be up to the person to decide. and its up to that person to make the most out of it - noone is going to hold your hand through it all.

in my experience university was fantastic. i did a reasonably interesting degree with a lot of flexibility, i met a lot of great people and, whilst monetarily i am in a precarious position at the moment (working for a start-up), its got me where i am now (the alps), and i'm getting great experience if things do go tits up.

I'm also of the opinion that the whole furore over the new fees is partly bandwagon jumping/ignorance of the new fees system (not necessarily a defect of the individuals, more an effect of widespread hysteria over headline figures). My understanding of the new system is that there will be a large debt, but the repayments will be very small, and a lot of people will never pay it off - it'll get cancelled down the line anyway. its a long-term, low interest, low re-payment loan which a lot of people won't have to pay off fully, unless you reap the rewards of a high paying job.

would i go back to uni? yes. without a doubt. would i also look into getting a trade/vocational training course? yes. definitely. its not the only option out there, but its certainly a great option for the right person - just gotta make the most of it.

[rant over]

You did an arts degree didn't you

This is why it's not worth listening to you, if you are going to be so dismissive of something you know nowt about.

I woon't for one second pay any attention to Junky's post, or indeed anyone attaching any sort of economic value to going to university. Is that seriously all it means to you? Pound notes??

It's all about developing the mind. Which, if you have the aptitude for what's in store, is worth it at any price.

I shining example of the sheer commercial naivety of one of out most left wing chums!

if you are going to be so dismissive of something you know nowt about.

[b]I am a career advisor[/b]

for me, university wasn't about getting a qualification - yes, that's why I went, but in hindsight I got SO much more out of it
university changes you, it develops you into the adult you become, I'm not sure that people who don't go to university would be developed in the same way (not to say it's a better way than any other) - it was one of the best times of my life
my current career has nothing to do with the degree I got, but I wouldn't have the job I have today if I hadn't gone to university
I was also lucky to get financial support from a couple of companies so debts weren't too bad

Not at all, Spongebrain; it's about placing economics before mental and intellectual development.

Which I happen to think is the wrong way to go about things. The OP is stressing over stuff that may or may not affect his kids in the future, without perhaps considering their development as members of society enough.

People don't seem to have any qualms when signing up to mortgages that could bind them for a great chunk of their lives, yet baulk at investment in education.

Junky's 'advice' is rubbish.

Unless you do something vocational with a guaranteed return there is little point

I am so glad you weren't my careers adviser. I feel sorry for anyone with ideas of expanding their intellectual capabilities who comes to you for advice. 🙁

What do you mean by 'guaranteed return'?

Cos for me, that 'return' is a far greater understanding of the World around me, and an enhanced enjoyment of such, as well as increased confidence and self-esteem. Those things are priceless, imo.

Very much profession dependent - you will be unlikely to get a job an an engineer / scientist without a degree. I hated my degree and university but saw it as a necessary step to get into a career I wanted (Engineering) and it has more than paid back it's time and cost in terms of career average earnings.

given the age you are at when you go to Uni it will change you but so would 3 years travelling. Leaving home, mixing with a new crowd etc are all factors that will influence you certainly but there are other ways to achieve this.
I am not saying University is solely about finacial gain [ to ignor ethis is daft though] but that was the question the OP asked and I answered it.
If he asked does Uni enrich you then some here have done very well at answering that question that was not asked. Aparently some of these went to university see how much they have learnt and rejoice 😆

So did you go to uni, Junky? And if so, what was your degree in?

I went to uni to study nursing. It was not for me despite making good friends and being in the top 1% academically at school. I left after first year and did the old style apprenticeship nurse training ( no longer available)

I think too many folk go to university for lack of other ideas and because its the done thing. Go if its right for you but don't if it is not. Don't matter if yo get a first in law or 3rd in history of art - its a part of education and that is broader than just exams

No pointelss, it was a fantastic excuse for me to drink, play rugby, cycle and sleep with as many girls as possible.
My work is completly unrelated to my degree and does not require a degree. I have got on well in a professional environment due to my personality, character, work ethic and luck.
Unless you are going to university with a clear view of what you wish to do i.e Solicitor, then it is largely pointless, especially now with fees. But then again we can do with a few less Media Studies graduates, that feel society owes them a living.

Most snobbish thing I ever had said to me (by a friend funnily enough) was "well of course you haven't a degree have you?"

Strangely he gained his degree nearly 15 years ago and he still hasn't hasn't earned as much in a year as little old me who left school at 16 with a few poxy CSE's.

My wife decided a few years ago that she wanted to become a teacher, so she did an access course and then went to Uni for three years, sheesh it nearly killed us with all the debt, but she now loves her job and as Junkyard says above it's one of the few professions left which you 'need' a degree in!

Well I spent 3 years taking drugs and spending money that wasn't mine so i'd have to say yes, it was worth it.

Apparently I had the biggest student overdraft in barclays history at one point.

So, tommid; [i]you[/i] chose the wrong path and therefore uni is 'pointless'?

Nothing like a properly informed, reasoned and balanced view, is there? 🙂

Interesting just how much some folk consider material wealth as more important than intellectual development. Thatcherism obviously worked...

Interesting just how much some folk consider material wealth as more important than intellectual development. Thatcherism obviously worked...

Not sure that getting pissed for three years will help much with intellectual development. Your quaint view of unis is pretty outdated too - they are businesses interested in making money, challenging and engaging students comes low down the list of priorities these days.

little point

I am so glad you weren't my careers adviser

I feel sorry for anyone with ideas of expanding their intellectual capabilities who comes to you for advice

Cos for me, that 'return' is a far greater understanding of the World around me, and an enhanced enjoyment of such, as well as increased confidence ands self-esteem. Those things are priceless, imo.

Obviously I went to Uni and to not be a shy as you
Bsc Psychology First Class - you can do it as an arts degree as well - well you could when I did it - do you want a copy in case I am BS? Interesting I did it as an arts degree but changed to science during the course but it was exactly the same course. I "minored" in Philosphy and Theology- with only the former contributing to my degree.
PGCE Community education and Lifelong Learning
IAG[information advice and Guidance] level 4 - easy and relatively meaningless IMHO
Doing a post grad careers diploma as well- Intersting so far but hardly spiritually enriching.
few other industry specfic stuff of no real relevance to this thread.
OP have your thread back
EDIt: I have also taught at a Uni[1 year] as well and they are about money. We would take people on science degrees and have to give them maths lessons because they could not calculate an average or undersatnd what one was. As for writing in third person past tense
I have loaded your gun now fire away 😉

I agree with Elfin. It's about the love of learning not a specific career path.

Definitely worked for me even though I went into uni knowing that there was a less than 1% chance of me getting the specific job my course was designed for. Loved it for the learning and the life experience and I'd do it again tomorrow even knowing the costs involved and would recommend university to anyone who had a passion for a subject.

ps. Didn't get the job at the end of it but got some lucky breaks and ended up with some similar work in architecture, which is awesome.

To me there are two questions here:

1) is a degree worth it?

and

2) is Uni worth it?

In my experience the degree isn't worth it, however the experience of University (leaving home at 18 with the security of being surrounded by hundreds of others in the same boat etc) was well and truly worth it 😉

I went to university as a very mature student and had a great time; wouldn't have missed the experince for anything. Even at 38 I learned new things about myself and developed as a person, made some great frineds, really enjoyed studying and, having spent the previous 20 years in international banking and playing in rock bands, actually drank less at university than I had previously!! So many of the younger students felt they were on an educational treadmill and were quite demotivated by the end of their second year, whereas us oldies made made distinct life choices in order to be there. Luckily I only had to take out a very small student loan to see me through my bachelors degree and my masters was funded. The over emphasis on the financial recompense of a degree is unfortunate but, in today's climate I can understand it. Could you get the same life experiences and intellectual development elsewhere for the expense of a degree is still up for discussion, I think.

politically and philosphically I would not disagree

So why bang on about the material cost/value so much then?

remind us what you do for a living?

Graphic design. I'm planning to move into furniture design too. Not something I ever thought I'd be doing, but I am grateful for the fact that my time spent at uni equipped be to be able to explore my abilities further and to pursue opportunities for self-development and horizon expansion I may not previously have imagined were possible.

Coming from where I do, all those who have persevered with education are doing better for themselves; not necessarily on an economic level, but in terms of their own self-fulfilment, experiences and confidence. I know a number of very frustrated and unfulfilled people who considered Uni a 'waste of time', yet now probably wish they had chosen that path. Like one mate who is stuck on a pay grade he can't rise above, watching people younger and more 'qualified' than him progress beyond him.

There's nothing worse than a wasted intellect. Encourage people to expand their minds before their wallets....

I'm planning to move into furniture design too.

That was the degree with the less than one percent chance of a job that I did. Incredibly rewarding but really difficult to get off the ground and actually make money from. I still do a bit of design on the side but only for fun these days.
Hopefully should have a shed/workshop of my own soon so I can get back to prototyping and cocking around with power tools.

I'm not hoping to make any 'money', Huw! 😆 Although that would be a welcome bonus..

I believe that my experience in education has enabled me to gain interests in fields I might not have otherwise. Opened up my horizons, expanded the number of possibilities available to me.

That's what it was all about for me, not money. Although yes, we all need to eat.

Junky; maybe the next time you have some youngster in front of you, unsure about their future, you can perhaps consider their intellectual development as well as their economic progression in life.

For me my First hasn't helped me get a job a year later.. to be fair it was a pretty easy subject (Media Production BSc) but still required a bit of work to get the first, afaics most people didn't bother and got a 2:2. It was a fun 3 years though and I do know a lot more about the stuff I'm interested in (video, audio, 3d graphics, animation etc)!

So why bang on about the material cost/value so much then?

I'm not hoping to make any 'money', Huw!

That's lucky 🙂

No, to go travelling you'll just need thousands and thousands of pounds.

Which is really easy to get if you're young and haven't got the right qualifications/experience to get a job which pays highly enough so that you can afford to live [i]and[/i] save up for your mega-adventure...

your right go to uni that is cost neutral
Youth unemeployment is at record high but you seem to be suggesting having a degree will negate that I susggest you look at graduate unemployment and even more significantly what % are doing a job related to their degree it is shockingly low.
Travel and work doing seasonal work grape picking etc loads of folk have done it travel and worked. Broadedn your horizons etc

Right. This discussion's done, as far as I'm concerned (boring now). Time for some ABBA...

And with that, I'm off out on me bike! 😀

Traveling definitely broadened my horizons, but it also screwed up my employment opportunities.
Returning to the UK after 7 years away and getting work is hard, so it may be life experience rich, but it doesn;t make your pockets rich

For me, it was worth it. Met my wife and would not have had the career I have had so far without it. I do think that a university with lower intake, higher standards and taxpayer funded it the way to go. Paid for by income tax skewed to higher rate earners.
My education was free (in fact I got £1800 a year grant in the early 90's). Why should the current generation of students be stuffed over with massive charges and debts. Have a smaller system that enables the best talent to go regardless of propensity to incur massive debt.

Uni isn't for everyone, but if it is for your kids make sure they pick the right course at the right university and it will be well worth it. I can't emphasise enough the importance of picking the right place to go - not all universities, nor departments are created equally. Some places with great reputations are crap for teaching, so ignore what you've heard about a university secondhand, and check it out for yourself at an open day and speak to students on the specific course your sprogs are interested in - ask the latter what they think of the staff and the ways they get taught. Also, ignore the branding and don't be fooled that your kids will get a better degree on a course which requires AAA compared to one which requires BBC.

I'm a lecturer btw

I would also strongly suggest not going to uni straight from school. Having to pick a degree/career aged 17/18 is absolute madness imo. Working for a few years and getting some idea of how the world actually works first would mean a lot less people ended up studying something it turns out they aren't really interested in.

1. Unless you do something vocational with a guaranteed return there is little point

Other than for the hell of it. I did Physics at uni, and would do it again. My life would be immeasurably more crap if I hadn't been to uni. I would have very very few decent friends for a start.

As for the debt - it's not quite the same as normal debt, is it?

I think that far fewer people should be at university, probably. However I do think that it has great value beyond vocational education.

no, i have never used my degree. (psychology)
i didnt go to uni until i was 21 , but i lived at home as i had a 5mth old baby when i started. so my experiences of uni were different to most of those on my course. i didnt particularly enjoy it. i didnt fit in with the 18-19yr olds, but was to young to hang out with the mature students.
i still have to defer my student loan repayments every year because i dont earn enough to repay them.
when my eldest leaves school in a few years i will encourage him to go to uni, but to be very careful about what degree he chooses.
i'm not sure how the funding works nowadays, although he will get full loans or whatever is available due to my low income.
so for me it wasnt worth it, but i hope it will different for my children.

I don't think you can plan very much for your children unless they are already in their teens. Who knows what they might want as a career? Or as a life/lifestyle or what policy will be the latest toy of the ruling party?

Also education may change hugely in the next few years. The government is seeking to promote private universities and private education suppliers and is known to be happy if some of the present public owned universities go bankrupt and down the pan.

Huge amounts of effort are put in by Universities to attract students from abroad, particularly non EU countries as they make so much more money from them than from 'local' students, so more value is placed on courting those from abroad.

You can't count on the system we have now being the same in only say 4 or 5 years. Governments, policies etc change. The 'only a few will charge £9000' was clearly not the truth and the government were either fools or knew this in advance and lied for their own ends.

In a short time it could be better in some ways, or a full time degree could become non-existent as a full time option for the lower/middle classes of this country.

Many students are now travelling to Europe from here to do degrees as they often teach in English (Finland for example) and the prices are much much cheaper.

Everything is changing so big and so fast, I don't see you can plan all that far ahead. There is no point in worrying. People survive.

Most important of all is that in most cases, people can obtain further education at a later point in time - it does not have to be an immediate continuation from school. In fact, if future students go out and experience a bit of the working world first, it can help them decide what they want to do (or not do!) with future education choices.

Other than for the hell of it.

uni gave me a wife , friends for life, a career , an experience ill never forget and about 15k debt
I did biochemistry and could never have got my job, which I enjoy without it, science OS one subject where a degree is essential
it took me a while to pay off my debt so id consider 35k a big factor in the equation - especially considering crappy science wages
I also managed to squeeze in a summer at camp America which was also a major life experience for me
it was arranged thru uni

shooterman - Member

I've got two kids and panic every time I think how much it will cost to send them to Uni.

it won't cost YOU anything to send them to uni.

they'll be able to borrow as much as they need to cover all the costs (rent + fees + living expenses).

if and when they end up earning over £21k, they'll pay a little bit per month to the student loans company.

(£50 per month for someone earning £26k)

they won't have to pay a penny if they're not in work.

the debt will be cancelled after 30 years.

unless your kids go on to become a QC or something, uni will cost them £12000 LESS than it would have done under the old fees+loans system.

can i transfer my student debt to the new repayment system please? - it's a bargain.

I dropped out of A levels because although I was academically gifted I wasn't mature enough for university. I am ambivalent about that decision. The subsequent apprenticeship gave me the career I have now but it'll be tough for me to progress much more. When recruiting recently my director wanted to set the bar higher than my qualifications and I run the department! I had a couple of stabs at a part-time degree, but now it's something I'll do when I'm retired or from the OU. Despite working in engineering I think I'll be doing an arts degree.

I'd say that your children should be telling you whether they want to attend uni or not. And they should be able to give you some fairly compelling reasons for wanting to go. I agree with Elfin in that the type of degree is irrelevant as long as it's something you can dedicate yourself to. A pure arts degree can be much more valuable than an elec eng bsc if it inspires you and makes you happy. IME the partying years are something you can have at that age anyway, though it's easier to cane it too much if you're working 😉

it won't cost YOU anything to send them to uni.

That's a joke, right? He won't have to pay the fees but unless his kids stay at home there will be living expenses to pay for, and you can guarantee he'll contribute to that. No-one wants to see their kids go [s]thirsty[/s] hungry....

RichPenny - Member

"it won't cost YOU anything to send them to uni"

That's a joke, right?

NO.

they'll be able to borrow enough to cover all their costs.

the repayments are tiny.

the new system is LOADS cheaper for more or less everyone than the old system - because the monthly repayments are £50 less.

£50/month, for 12 months, for 25 years, is £15,000.

I tried to work hard at uni, got a degree in mechanical engineering, and now have a good, interesting job.

i'd say that uni was worth it, and now it's even cheaper.

Labour wanted lots more of us to get degrees so must be the best thing for us surely?

The brightest will benefit from a degree - although the very brightest will probably succeed anyway. If you're average maybe don't bother, if you're scraping in then a waste of cash.

If you want to broaden your mind, reading a few books, doing some evening classes and joining a few social organizations will be cheaper and better - the average graduate really really ain't anything special.

NO.

they'll be able to borrow enough to cover all their costs.

the repayments are tiny.

Yep, that's what my brother did. He borrowed from my dad, and the repayments were tiny 🙂

20 years ago :oops:, yes, not sure about it these days.

Absolutely worth it for me. My degree helped me start my career on a great salary and continue along that path. Further down the line now I'm in my 30s, it means I don't have to explain to interviewers why I [b]don't[/b] have a degree. Apart from that, university was a great experience, plenty of learning, drinking and shagging.

I wouldn't recommend your kids go to university if they plan on studying some mickey mouse subject or don't think they will be able to get at least a 2:1, having a Desmond in media studies is pretty pointless.

Was uni worth it?

Ask Kate Middleton

😀

Traveling definitely broadened my horizons, but it also screwed up my employment opportunities.

Just how bad is it? I'm thinking of moving over to Canada (BC of course) for a while later this year as I've got a working holiday visa and no real job prospects here as the media industry is stupidly hard to get into unless you know someone.. in my situation will a year or two out of the country make much of a difference?

Do employers look down on people who have travelled instead of stuck it out in a boring job in the UK til something more suitable came along? The way I'm seeing it is that I'll get a similar job to that I could be doing in the UK (bar work etc) but I'd rather be doing that in a nicer country than here!

I dont think anyone can argue education is a bad thing just what and when should be thought about slightly more than just following the herd.

Labour wanted lots more of us to get degrees so must be the best thing for us surely?

restless - Member
no, i have never used my degree. (psychology)

Seriously? You didn't learn any new skills doing your course that you have used afterwards?

I dropped out of poly in the first term, stumbled into a great job/career, did the profesional qualifications and bought my first house at 21.

When that went a bit pear shaped 12 years later, turned out I wasn't getting through a lot of first sifts for jobs as I had no degree, so I did a part time degree. Academically it wasn't challenging, getting married and starting a family in the middle of it certainly was! The fact that I was doing a degree got me the job I have now, although it is no practical day to day use.

Did my disertation on whether graduates were any better than non-graduates in "non-graduate" jobs - results of my research suggested they were not, but it was marginal.

If you need a degree to get the job you want, then uni is worth it. If there are other ways to get the job - apprenticeship etc, then they have to be more sensible options than starting life with a debt in the background

did i learn skills? maybe, probably, but i think i could have acheived more if i had picked a different degree, as with mine the postgraduate part was more essential for me to progress in that field, but due to how its funded, or not, i couldnt do it.
so it was a waste of 3 yrs in my experience.

Interesting points about the debt.

Surely you must realise Junkyard that there's debt and theres' debt. Debt is only bad because of the liability it brings you. And the student loan debt is extremely low liability as described above.

Just how bad is it? I'm thinking of moving over to Canada (BC of course) for a while later this year as I've got a working holiday visa and no real job prospects here as the media industry is stupidly hard to get into unless you know someone.. in my situation will a year or two out of the country make much of a difference?

Do employers look down on people who have travelled instead of stuck it out in boring job in the UK til something more suitable came along? The way I'm seeing it is that I'll get a similar job to that I could be doing in the UK (bar work etc) but I'd rather be doing that in a nicer country than here!

I never really wanted to go to university, I was too busy dabbling in substance abuse feeling sorry for myself...went to a state 6th form college after leaving a well known 'prestigious' private school...[u]best thing which ever happened to me[/u]...lost a ton of 'entitlement' feelings that I'd been brought up with (believing them too!) and made some of the best friends anyone could ask for, at the same time, the teachers (never met/nor intend to meet a careers advisor) I had for geography were awesome, they and laterly myself realised I was damn good at it..suggested i took it at university (i originally wanted to be an engineer but alas...calculus...not my strong point)

ended up at a russell group uni in the north, did a geography BSc ..while there did a year abroad in canada very spur of the moment type deal...wasn't even really sure why i did it...Met friends for life (international and Canadian) during that year, had alot of fun, a ton of tail, and having never had a 'Gap Yah' it gave me time to think, travel, study, and look hard at myself in the mirror. It was also a time when the exchange rate was awesome and everyone was high on property values in the UK. Came back to Canada after finishing my final year to do an MSc in Hydrology at the invite of one of the professors from the Canadian uni I'd been abroad to. I'm just finishing up now with that degree with a Canadian fiancée, a very healthy resume, job offers and able to work in some fairly incredible environments in the Great White North and get paid incredibly well for doing so.

Yes I left the UK with a TON of debt despite being the 'last' group to get away without top-up fees in 2005, but I'd saved pretty much everything I'd ever worked for and was financially pretty stable to be able to deal with that debt. My MSc is 100% funded (living costs, tuition, the works) by the Canadian government...but i'm British...go figure.

Do I think uni is worth it? It depends what you make of it, I was certainly late in realising this, but on the whole, yes

Was my degree worth it? I never thought it would be (I mean a degree in colouring in?) but it turned out to be the best decision I ever (accidentally) made.

Have I told my brother and sister (who experienced the UK university system some 20 years before I did) to talk to my nephews and nieces about studying overseas? Yes

Have they listened? Ofcourse not.

Do I think the teaching/quality of degree abroad is better? Yes, I think 'oversold and undertaught' describes British undergraduate degrees quite well, having experienced both systems, it truely is staggering we can get away with claiming a 'world class education' system.

I think in the future unless you're doing hard science, medicine or law, the financial benefits are always going to be massively overstated and to some extent I can almost see university education being a 'bubble' in itself much like commodities or property, but then, that said, it's frankly what you make of it that will actually get you a job, degree or no degree.

A side project that myself and some friends (in the UK) own and run producing highly scientific field equipment has just taken on someone with no degree whatsoever...everyone who applied who had engineering/design qualifications had the practical ability of a chocolate teapot, but could still list of equations and 'design theory' like they were their mums phone number. This guy was hired

..after a practical test. Three pieces of aluminium with threaded countersunk holes which join together to form a C. We put all manner of tools in front of them, screwdrivers, handsaw, flatheads, spanners, soldering irons, wood glue, allen keys, the works.

They had 3 torx screws with which to join the pieces that fit perfectly. But no torx wrench.

We realised (my buddies in the UK lamenting to me over skype at the people they had apply - all of us are under the age of 26 and by no means consider ourselves 'experienced' just lucky to know what we know and how to do something useful with it) he was perfect where on taking all of a minute to look through the tools, the screws, said promptly 'I'll be back in 40 minutes to finish the interview, I need a T-25 torx bit to assemble this part and you don't have one'.

The lad with the design degree used wood glue, a girl with an electrical engineering degree just arranged them neatly in a line and asked 'where was the box to put them in' and several others tried to mash the allen keys to turn the torx screws. While we are a *teeny tiny* firm, we are at least young enough and bright enough to realise that education isn't everything. Although it doesn't have make one worry about what the future holds..and similarly makes me glad all those years tinkering with bikes as being potentially more useful than the degree in engineering i originally wanted...

Sorry...long post...over!

[i](we hope to take them on full time within the next 12 months as an equal partner with the same cut as everyone else, in our very small firm as we don't have the time to 'make' the stuff, but lots to design/market it/field test[/i])

..we did all of this off our own backs with some serious 'garage' engineering, innumerable favors from local firms and lots of paid in kind with beer/cycling tours/offers to guide people in Northern Canada to get this wee project off the ground...there were none of Mr.Cleggs 'alarm clock britain bullshit project seed money' used here!

Surely you must realise Junkyard that there's debt and theres' debt

'I'll be back in 40 minutes to finish the interview, I need a T-25 torx bit to assemble this part and you don't have one'

Clearly no good at improvising then 😉

I'd have commented on the lack of correct bit then fixed it anyway 😉

Junkyard - not me I don't think! 🙂

molgrips - we didn't actually let the guy go out and get a torx bit, we had one, just not present on the table, but he was the only one who actually recognised this, pretty much as soon as he said those words (in the garage of my friend where we build this stuff) he was offered the job and they asked if he wanted to come on a ride on a spare bike and took him to the pub

It's certainly true that a lot of engineering graduates leave uni without practical skills. But is that supposed to be the point of an engineering degree? Does it really need a university to teach someone how to do up a nut and bolt? Given that it's pretty easy to teach those things on the job. Unlike say doing FEA on bridge girders etc etc.

In your job situation, did you put 'practical mechanical skills' on the job spec? If not, you should've. Also, I suspect many of your candidates thought that the lack of the correct Torx bit was actually the whole point of the challenge. Most interview tests I've been on, if I'd complained that I didn't have the bit for the simple solution I'd have been shown the door, since they wanted people to solve problems not state the obvious and then stop 🙂

Top tip for interviews - make it clear what's required!

It's certainly true that a lot of engineering graduates leave uni without practical skills. But is that supposed to be the point of an engineering degree?

It wouldn't be such a bad idea to have some though. I mean, we've had engineering applicants who couldn't wire a plug FFS 🙂 It's always going to depend on your field but my experience tells me that those designers without practical skills are much less capable at DFM.

I've set similar tests to mrgibbons', where the aim is to see what approach people take when not everything required is supplied. If you'd have attempted a bodge without first asking for assistance, that's a fail 😉

Wasn't worth it for me, certainly not doing the course I did. If I could turn back the clock I'm not sure I'd go, I definitely wouldn't do the degree I did (Biology). Sum total of the careers advice I got when choosing what subject was pick something you enjoy.

re. two types of debt - the new system will see real interest rates, and although the govt says the debt won't be counted against a graduate's credit rating, a person's net income (after student loan repayments) will be taken into account by a lender.

re. getting a job - businesses seemingly decided all at once that they'd rather not spent money on training their staff, preferring to moan that universities aren't doing the stuff businesses used to do.

CaptJon - Member
...the new system will see real interest rates, and ... a person's net income (after student loan repayments) will be taken into account by a lender.

very few people will actually clear the debt - the interest / amount owed will be irrelevant to most people. the debt will simply be cleared after 30 years.

someone repaying under the new system will have MORE disposable income than compared to the old system.

the OP (shooterman) really has nothing to worry about.

his kids will be much better off than their predecessors.

(£50/month for 25 years, stick that in an ISA, Bosh, £20k easy, probly more)

(nasty nasty Nick Clegg)

there is no requirement, and no benefit, to clearing the debt early, or over-paying, i'd question the sanity of anyone who did that.

let's suggest that a good graduate starting salary would be £23k - like at my place of work.

loan repayments will be £17/month - feel the burden!

(the noobies at work are paying back £67/month - i know which system they'd choose to repay with if they had a choice)