[Closed] Was Uni Worth it?

Traveling definitely broadened my horizons, but it also screwed up my employment opportunities.
Returning to the UK after 7 years away and getting work is hard, so it may be life experience rich, but it doesn;t make your pockets rich

For me, it was worth it. Met my wife and would not have had the career I have had so far without it. I do think that a university with lower intake, higher standards and taxpayer funded it the way to go. Paid for by income tax skewed to higher rate earners.
My education was free (in fact I got £1800 a year grant in the early 90's). Why should the current generation of students be stuffed over with massive charges and debts. Have a smaller system that enables the best talent to go regardless of propensity to incur massive debt.

Uni isn't for everyone, but if it is for your kids make sure they pick the right course at the right university and it will be well worth it. I can't emphasise enough the importance of picking the right place to go - not all universities, nor departments are created equally. Some places with great reputations are crap for teaching, so ignore what you've heard about a university secondhand, and check it out for yourself at an open day and speak to students on the specific course your sprogs are interested in - ask the latter what they think of the staff and the ways they get taught. Also, ignore the branding and don't be fooled that your kids will get a better degree on a course which requires AAA compared to one which requires BBC.

I'm a lecturer btw

I would also strongly suggest not going to uni straight from school. Having to pick a degree/career aged 17/18 is absolute madness imo. Working for a few years and getting some idea of how the world actually works first would mean a lot less people ended up studying something it turns out they aren't really interested in.

1. Unless you do something vocational with a guaranteed return there is little point

Other than for the hell of it. I did Physics at uni, and would do it again. My life would be immeasurably more crap if I hadn't been to uni. I would have very very few decent friends for a start.

As for the debt - it's not quite the same as normal debt, is it?

I think that far fewer people should be at university, probably. However I do think that it has great value beyond vocational education.

no, i have never used my degree. (psychology)
i didnt go to uni until i was 21 , but i lived at home as i had a 5mth old baby when i started. so my experiences of uni were different to most of those on my course. i didnt particularly enjoy it. i didnt fit in with the 18-19yr olds, but was to young to hang out with the mature students.
i still have to defer my student loan repayments every year because i dont earn enough to repay them.
when my eldest leaves school in a few years i will encourage him to go to uni, but to be very careful about what degree he chooses.
i'm not sure how the funding works nowadays, although he will get full loans or whatever is available due to my low income.
so for me it wasnt worth it, but i hope it will different for my children.

I don't think you can plan very much for your children unless they are already in their teens. Who knows what they might want as a career? Or as a life/lifestyle or what policy will be the latest toy of the ruling party?

Also education may change hugely in the next few years. The government is seeking to promote private universities and private education suppliers and is known to be happy if some of the present public owned universities go bankrupt and down the pan.

Huge amounts of effort are put in by Universities to attract students from abroad, particularly non EU countries as they make so much more money from them than from 'local' students, so more value is placed on courting those from abroad.

You can't count on the system we have now being the same in only say 4 or 5 years. Governments, policies etc change. The 'only a few will charge £9000' was clearly not the truth and the government were either fools or knew this in advance and lied for their own ends.

In a short time it could be better in some ways, or a full time degree could become non-existent as a full time option for the lower/middle classes of this country.

Many students are now travelling to Europe from here to do degrees as they often teach in English (Finland for example) and the prices are much much cheaper.

Everything is changing so big and so fast, I don't see you can plan all that far ahead. There is no point in worrying. People survive.

Most important of all is that in most cases, people can obtain further education at a later point in time - it does not have to be an immediate continuation from school. In fact, if future students go out and experience a bit of the working world first, it can help them decide what they want to do (or not do!) with future education choices.

Other than for the hell of it.

uni gave me a wife , friends for life, a career , an experience ill never forget and about 15k debt
I did biochemistry and could never have got my job, which I enjoy without it, science OS one subject where a degree is essential
it took me a while to pay off my debt so id consider 35k a big factor in the equation - especially considering crappy science wages
I also managed to squeeze in a summer at camp America which was also a major life experience for me
it was arranged thru uni

shooterman - Member

I've got two kids and panic every time I think how much it will cost to send them to Uni.

it won't cost YOU anything to send them to uni.

they'll be able to borrow as much as they need to cover all the costs (rent + fees + living expenses).

if and when they end up earning over £21k, they'll pay a little bit per month to the student loans company.

(£50 per month for someone earning £26k)

they won't have to pay a penny if they're not in work.

the debt will be cancelled after 30 years.

unless your kids go on to become a QC or something, uni will cost them £12000 LESS than it would have done under the old fees+loans system.

can i transfer my student debt to the new repayment system please? - it's a bargain.

I dropped out of A levels because although I was academically gifted I wasn't mature enough for university. I am ambivalent about that decision. The subsequent apprenticeship gave me the career I have now but it'll be tough for me to progress much more. When recruiting recently my director wanted to set the bar higher than my qualifications and I run the department! I had a couple of stabs at a part-time degree, but now it's something I'll do when I'm retired or from the OU. Despite working in engineering I think I'll be doing an arts degree.

I'd say that your children should be telling you whether they want to attend uni or not. And they should be able to give you some fairly compelling reasons for wanting to go. I agree with Elfin in that the type of degree is irrelevant as long as it's something you can dedicate yourself to. A pure arts degree can be much more valuable than an elec eng bsc if it inspires you and makes you happy. IME the partying years are something you can have at that age anyway, though it's easier to cane it too much if you're working 😉

it won't cost YOU anything to send them to uni.

That's a joke, right? He won't have to pay the fees but unless his kids stay at home there will be living expenses to pay for, and you can guarantee he'll contribute to that. No-one wants to see their kids go [s]thirsty[/s] hungry....

RichPenny - Member

"it won't cost YOU anything to send them to uni"

That's a joke, right?

NO.

they'll be able to borrow enough to cover all their costs.

the repayments are tiny.

the new system is LOADS cheaper for more or less everyone than the old system - because the monthly repayments are £50 less.

£50/month, for 12 months, for 25 years, is £15,000.

I tried to work hard at uni, got a degree in mechanical engineering, and now have a good, interesting job.

i'd say that uni was worth it, and now it's even cheaper.

Labour wanted lots more of us to get degrees so must be the best thing for us surely?

The brightest will benefit from a degree - although the very brightest will probably succeed anyway. If you're average maybe don't bother, if you're scraping in then a waste of cash.

If you want to broaden your mind, reading a few books, doing some evening classes and joining a few social organizations will be cheaper and better - the average graduate really really ain't anything special.

NO.

they'll be able to borrow enough to cover all their costs.

the repayments are tiny.

Yep, that's what my brother did. He borrowed from my dad, and the repayments were tiny 🙂

20 years ago :oops:, yes, not sure about it these days.

Absolutely worth it for me. My degree helped me start my career on a great salary and continue along that path. Further down the line now I'm in my 30s, it means I don't have to explain to interviewers why I [b]don't[/b] have a degree. Apart from that, university was a great experience, plenty of learning, drinking and shagging.

I wouldn't recommend your kids go to university if they plan on studying some mickey mouse subject or don't think they will be able to get at least a 2:1, having a Desmond in media studies is pretty pointless.

Was uni worth it?

Ask Kate Middleton

😀

Traveling definitely broadened my horizons, but it also screwed up my employment opportunities.

Just how bad is it? I'm thinking of moving over to Canada (BC of course) for a while later this year as I've got a working holiday visa and no real job prospects here as the media industry is stupidly hard to get into unless you know someone.. in my situation will a year or two out of the country make much of a difference?

Do employers look down on people who have travelled instead of stuck it out in a boring job in the UK til something more suitable came along? The way I'm seeing it is that I'll get a similar job to that I could be doing in the UK (bar work etc) but I'd rather be doing that in a nicer country than here!

I dont think anyone can argue education is a bad thing just what and when should be thought about slightly more than just following the herd.

Labour wanted lots more of us to get degrees so must be the best thing for us surely?

restless - Member
no, i have never used my degree. (psychology)

Seriously? You didn't learn any new skills doing your course that you have used afterwards?

I dropped out of poly in the first term, stumbled into a great job/career, did the profesional qualifications and bought my first house at 21.

When that went a bit pear shaped 12 years later, turned out I wasn't getting through a lot of first sifts for jobs as I had no degree, so I did a part time degree. Academically it wasn't challenging, getting married and starting a family in the middle of it certainly was! The fact that I was doing a degree got me the job I have now, although it is no practical day to day use.

Did my disertation on whether graduates were any better than non-graduates in "non-graduate" jobs - results of my research suggested they were not, but it was marginal.

If you need a degree to get the job you want, then uni is worth it. If there are other ways to get the job - apprenticeship etc, then they have to be more sensible options than starting life with a debt in the background

did i learn skills? maybe, probably, but i think i could have acheived more if i had picked a different degree, as with mine the postgraduate part was more essential for me to progress in that field, but due to how its funded, or not, i couldnt do it.
so it was a waste of 3 yrs in my experience.

Interesting points about the debt.

Surely you must realise Junkyard that there's debt and theres' debt. Debt is only bad because of the liability it brings you. And the student loan debt is extremely low liability as described above.

Just how bad is it? I'm thinking of moving over to Canada (BC of course) for a while later this year as I've got a working holiday visa and no real job prospects here as the media industry is stupidly hard to get into unless you know someone.. in my situation will a year or two out of the country make much of a difference?

Do employers look down on people who have travelled instead of stuck it out in boring job in the UK til something more suitable came along? The way I'm seeing it is that I'll get a similar job to that I could be doing in the UK (bar work etc) but I'd rather be doing that in a nicer country than here!

I never really wanted to go to university, I was too busy dabbling in substance abuse feeling sorry for myself...went to a state 6th form college after leaving a well known 'prestigious' private school...[u]best thing which ever happened to me[/u]...lost a ton of 'entitlement' feelings that I'd been brought up with (believing them too!) and made some of the best friends anyone could ask for, at the same time, the teachers (never met/nor intend to meet a careers advisor) I had for geography were awesome, they and laterly myself realised I was damn good at it..suggested i took it at university (i originally wanted to be an engineer but alas...calculus...not my strong point)

ended up at a russell group uni in the north, did a geography BSc ..while there did a year abroad in canada very spur of the moment type deal...wasn't even really sure why i did it...Met friends for life (international and Canadian) during that year, had alot of fun, a ton of tail, and having never had a 'Gap Yah' it gave me time to think, travel, study, and look hard at myself in the mirror. It was also a time when the exchange rate was awesome and everyone was high on property values in the UK. Came back to Canada after finishing my final year to do an MSc in Hydrology at the invite of one of the professors from the Canadian uni I'd been abroad to. I'm just finishing up now with that degree with a Canadian fiancée, a very healthy resume, job offers and able to work in some fairly incredible environments in the Great White North and get paid incredibly well for doing so.

Yes I left the UK with a TON of debt despite being the 'last' group to get away without top-up fees in 2005, but I'd saved pretty much everything I'd ever worked for and was financially pretty stable to be able to deal with that debt. My MSc is 100% funded (living costs, tuition, the works) by the Canadian government...but i'm British...go figure.

Do I think uni is worth it? It depends what you make of it, I was certainly late in realising this, but on the whole, yes

Was my degree worth it? I never thought it would be (I mean a degree in colouring in?) but it turned out to be the best decision I ever (accidentally) made.

Have I told my brother and sister (who experienced the UK university system some 20 years before I did) to talk to my nephews and nieces about studying overseas? Yes

Have they listened? Ofcourse not.

Do I think the teaching/quality of degree abroad is better? Yes, I think 'oversold and undertaught' describes British undergraduate degrees quite well, having experienced both systems, it truely is staggering we can get away with claiming a 'world class education' system.

I think in the future unless you're doing hard science, medicine or law, the financial benefits are always going to be massively overstated and to some extent I can almost see university education being a 'bubble' in itself much like commodities or property, but then, that said, it's frankly what you make of it that will actually get you a job, degree or no degree.

A side project that myself and some friends (in the UK) own and run producing highly scientific field equipment has just taken on someone with no degree whatsoever...everyone who applied who had engineering/design qualifications had the practical ability of a chocolate teapot, but could still list of equations and 'design theory' like they were their mums phone number. This guy was hired

..after a practical test. Three pieces of aluminium with threaded countersunk holes which join together to form a C. We put all manner of tools in front of them, screwdrivers, handsaw, flatheads, spanners, soldering irons, wood glue, allen keys, the works.

They had 3 torx screws with which to join the pieces that fit perfectly. But no torx wrench.

We realised (my buddies in the UK lamenting to me over skype at the people they had apply - all of us are under the age of 26 and by no means consider ourselves 'experienced' just lucky to know what we know and how to do something useful with it) he was perfect where on taking all of a minute to look through the tools, the screws, said promptly 'I'll be back in 40 minutes to finish the interview, I need a T-25 torx bit to assemble this part and you don't have one'.

The lad with the design degree used wood glue, a girl with an electrical engineering degree just arranged them neatly in a line and asked 'where was the box to put them in' and several others tried to mash the allen keys to turn the torx screws. While we are a *teeny tiny* firm, we are at least young enough and bright enough to realise that education isn't everything. Although it doesn't have make one worry about what the future holds..and similarly makes me glad all those years tinkering with bikes as being potentially more useful than the degree in engineering i originally wanted...

Sorry...long post...over!

[i](we hope to take them on full time within the next 12 months as an equal partner with the same cut as everyone else, in our very small firm as we don't have the time to 'make' the stuff, but lots to design/market it/field test[/i])

..we did all of this off our own backs with some serious 'garage' engineering, innumerable favors from local firms and lots of paid in kind with beer/cycling tours/offers to guide people in Northern Canada to get this wee project off the ground...there were none of Mr.Cleggs 'alarm clock britain bullshit project seed money' used here!

Surely you must realise Junkyard that there's debt and theres' debt

'I'll be back in 40 minutes to finish the interview, I need a T-25 torx bit to assemble this part and you don't have one'

Clearly no good at improvising then 😉

I'd have commented on the lack of correct bit then fixed it anyway 😉

Junkyard - not me I don't think! 🙂

molgrips - we didn't actually let the guy go out and get a torx bit, we had one, just not present on the table, but he was the only one who actually recognised this, pretty much as soon as he said those words (in the garage of my friend where we build this stuff) he was offered the job and they asked if he wanted to come on a ride on a spare bike and took him to the pub

It's certainly true that a lot of engineering graduates leave uni without practical skills. But is that supposed to be the point of an engineering degree? Does it really need a university to teach someone how to do up a nut and bolt? Given that it's pretty easy to teach those things on the job. Unlike say doing FEA on bridge girders etc etc.

In your job situation, did you put 'practical mechanical skills' on the job spec? If not, you should've. Also, I suspect many of your candidates thought that the lack of the correct Torx bit was actually the whole point of the challenge. Most interview tests I've been on, if I'd complained that I didn't have the bit for the simple solution I'd have been shown the door, since they wanted people to solve problems not state the obvious and then stop 🙂

Top tip for interviews - make it clear what's required!

It's certainly true that a lot of engineering graduates leave uni without practical skills. But is that supposed to be the point of an engineering degree?

It wouldn't be such a bad idea to have some though. I mean, we've had engineering applicants who couldn't wire a plug FFS 🙂 It's always going to depend on your field but my experience tells me that those designers without practical skills are much less capable at DFM.

I've set similar tests to mrgibbons', where the aim is to see what approach people take when not everything required is supplied. If you'd have attempted a bodge without first asking for assistance, that's a fail 😉

Wasn't worth it for me, certainly not doing the course I did. If I could turn back the clock I'm not sure I'd go, I definitely wouldn't do the degree I did (Biology). Sum total of the careers advice I got when choosing what subject was pick something you enjoy.

re. two types of debt - the new system will see real interest rates, and although the govt says the debt won't be counted against a graduate's credit rating, a person's net income (after student loan repayments) will be taken into account by a lender.

re. getting a job - businesses seemingly decided all at once that they'd rather not spent money on training their staff, preferring to moan that universities aren't doing the stuff businesses used to do.

CaptJon - Member
...the new system will see real interest rates, and ... a person's net income (after student loan repayments) will be taken into account by a lender.

very few people will actually clear the debt - the interest / amount owed will be irrelevant to most people. the debt will simply be cleared after 30 years.

someone repaying under the new system will have MORE disposable income than compared to the old system.

the OP (shooterman) really has nothing to worry about.

his kids will be much better off than their predecessors.

(£50/month for 25 years, stick that in an ISA, Bosh, £20k easy, probly more)

(nasty nasty Nick Clegg)

there is no requirement, and no benefit, to clearing the debt early, or over-paying, i'd question the sanity of anyone who did that.

let's suggest that a good graduate starting salary would be £23k - like at my place of work.

loan repayments will be £17/month - feel the burden!

(the noobies at work are paying back £67/month - i know which system they'd choose to repay with if they had a choice)

I mean, we've had engineering applicants who couldn't wire a plug FFS

Depends if you need to wire plugs in your field, doesn't it? 🙂 If I came to one of your interviews I would attempt a bodge but tell you exactly what I would've done had I had access to the proper stuff. And tell you the exact limitations of my bodge too.

I take your point, but it doesn't mean that university is worthless of course. For example, Mrs Grips did a literature degree, and is an excellent writer. She can't spell very well however. Doesn't make her any less of a writer imo.

Re the loans - I graduated in 1998 with two years' worth of top-up living expense loans totalling something like five grand. Small beans compared to today but it cost me just over £100 a month on £17k, which was a big hit.

For example, Mrs Grips did a literature degree, and is an excellent writer. She can't spell very well however. Doesn't make her any less of a writer imo.

I often feel a bit uneasy when I see badly spelled writing from graduates in [i]any[/i] field... I'm not sure that I understand how people that do a lot of reading and writing (as they surely must do during the course) can manage this.. is it a form of dyslexia..?

She uses a spell checker and proof reads everything carefully.

Could well be a very mild form of dyslexia, I dunno. I mean it's not like her writing is gibberish, it's just the odd word. Especially when she's in full flow concentrating on the story.

Spelling is about memory, writing well is more of a creative practice - they are different skills. There are lots of very intelligent people with poor memories.

what were we talking about again..? I've forgotten...

Erm...

Furniture, weren't it?

[img] [/img]

Mmm.....plywood....

About 1982 apllied to the local teacher training college for a place on a woodwork teacher course, before all this cdt came in, the chap looked at my application and said fore qualifications youve no tput down any a or o levels, just an engineering apprenticeship, experience in industry, 6 city and guilds qualifications and relevant work experience wth students.

When i pointed out that i had no o or a levels he said you need to apply to the local college, and get some, that will be two more years then apply agian.

I told him where to shove his o and a levels, he asked me to repaeat it, i did, and walkked out, just as he said he had had nebver heard such language before,(before channel 4 had been invented ) and i stormed out, got half way across car park, and there was him chasiong after me, saying i see your 23, and 24 next year,i said maths your stong point then.

His answer , as a 24 next year youre classed as a mature student, get a decent grant, and dont need o and a levels.

Lets just say the rest is history..............

Yes it was worth it for me.

Went to uni at 21, did Computer Science, I worked hard and partied pretty hard too. But it paid off I got a first and now work in software development. It has been invaluable to my career and was a great experience.

I'll have paid my loan off in a couple of months too which totaled about 14k too by the time I left in 2002.

Coming from where I do, all those who have persevered with education are doing better for themselves;

🙂 Typical arts student approach to understanding evidence!

Nice chair ... reminds me of a centipede in an attack position - Maybe not what the designer intended 🙂

Back to the OP - you asked whether the 'cost of a degree is worth it' -I'd say you need (or rather your children need) to consider 'worth' in terms of both economic and non-economic value.

From personal experience, if I had had to pay £9000 + living costs for my first degree (subsequent one's were funded by research funding), then it would not have been 'worth it' purely on economic grounds. In part that because I've chosen employment that I've cared about, where I've felt I can make a contribution to society / public good, rather than just for 'economic' gain (ie often been paid peanuts, but like to think I've helped people).

But in terms on non-economic value (increasing recognised as equally important when assessing cost-benefit ratio's), then yes, I would argue that it has been 'worth it', for two reasons. Firstly, because of what I gained, through exposure to different politics, philosophies, debate, ideas, counter-culture, feminism, equalities and a whole new way of thinking and responding to the world. From that point of view, I also think society can gain, through hopefully people sometimes being more open to new ideas and other viewpoints and cultures (not always an outcome of university, I admit, but it was in my case). Secondly, because it's meant I can put the skills I learnt (research / critical thinking) to use for (hopefully) the benefit of people / society.

Having said all that, would I have gone to uni if faced with the level of debt that will result from £9000 fees? No, probably not. I had no parental support, and came from a background of no money, so that level of debt would have seemed huge, and I probably couldn't have faced it. Which I guess emphasizes how socially divisive this fee increase can be.

But ultimately, surely it's up to your children to make this decision for themselves?