flanagaj - Member
An immigrant in a low paid job, e.g. £15k or even £20k pa is not paying enough tax to cover nhs, police and other services they are consuming, they are certainly not paying anyone's pension
IFS published a report today showing 48.5% of working people in the UK pay no tax at all
This was what I was trying to argue earlier, but it seemed to be poo poo'd as I got the impression that migrants benefit the UK economy. I was trying to find a figure at what point you are paying more in than you cost the state for existing.
* I thought the police was covered by council tax though?
That is true for an immigrant (from wherever) on low pay. But the evidence (the thing you asked for, did you have a look?) overwhelming shows that overall immigrants are net contributors.
oh god, i hadn't even thought about the cheese.
Gouda, Ossau iraty, Pecorino, Zamorano?
Brie for god's sake!
BRIE!
Nigel Farage wants to put a drawn-out trade deal between me and decent cheese, the heartless bastard.
[b]Immigrants who arrived in the UK since 2000 contribute more in taxes than they receive in benefits and other state assistance, on average.[/b] That’s based on research analysing the years from 2001 to 2011.[b]For those from the EU the picture was most positive:[/b] they were estimated to have contributed £1.34 for every £1 they took out. This what the headline claim refers to.
The same research found those from outside the EU put in £1.02 for every £1 received.
This is only part of the story though. Recent arrivals tend to be younger than those here for a longer time, and this can mean they’re less likely to be receiving state assistance. And if people come here when they’re working-age and leave before they get old, they’re much more likely to be putting in more than they take out.
Immigrants here for longer contribute less to public funds
The same research looked at all immigrants living in the UK between 1995 and 2012—these people could have arrived decades ago in some cases. For EU immigrants the contributions were smaller and those from outside the EU took out more than they put in.
[b]EU immigrants living in the UK are thought to have contributed £1.05 for every £1 received and, for non-EU immigrants, 85 pence for every £1.
[/b]
😀
Waits for the mental gymnastics required to spin that in a negative way. Or maybe just some misrepresentation.
IFS published a report today showing 48.5% of working people in the UK pay no tax at allWow where do you get these passes that make you exempt from all tax?
I'm pretty sure it's bull***t. I can't find anything on the IFS website from today, let alone a publication that states this nonsense.
Immigrants who arrived in the UK since 2000 contribute more in taxes than they receive in benefits and other state assistance, on average. That’s based on research analysing the years from 2001 to 2011.
For those from the EU the picture was most positive: they were estimated to have contributed £1.34 for every £1 they took out. This what the headline claim refers to.The same research found those from outside the EU put in £1.02 for every £1 received.
This is only part of the story though. Recent arrivals tend to be younger than those here for a longer time, and this can mean they’re less likely to be receiving state assistance. And if people come here when they’re working-age and leave before they get old, they’re much more likely to be putting in more than they take out.
Immigrants here for longer contribute less to public funds
The same research looked at all immigrants living in the UK between 1995 and 2012—these people could have arrived decades ago in some cases. For EU immigrants the contributions were smaller and those from outside the EU took out more than they put in.
EU immigrants living in the UK are thought to have contributed £1.05 for every £1 received and, for non-EU immigrants, 85 pence for every £1.
Stats are wonderful, but until you provide a full breakdown regarding factors used in the calculation it does not add much weight.
Anyway. Aside from migration. Who feels really upbeat regarding the prospect of being a fully fledged member of a european super state? As I think the prospect of the same old status quo rumbling on indefinitely is rather remote.
I for one hope the whole sorry rats nest comes crashing down in a big heap post "vote to stay in". It's totally f*cked and very few seem to see that. Countries with totally different fiscal policies being subsidised by the EU, only for their highly skilled / motivated citizens to seek their fortunes in another member state where quality of life is better. How will said countries ever grow their economies whilst such a model exists?
flanagaj - MemberSlight generalisation there. Someone on minimum wage would actually be a net beneficiary of the state.
As long as you ignore the contribution they make through work.
(It seems like I post this most weeks, these days)
Waits for the mental gymnastics required to spin that in a negative way. Or maybe just some misrepresentation
You never need to wait long, more like the mental belly flop though
Stats are wonderful, but until you provide a full breakdown regarding factors used in the calculation it does not add much weight.
It was a simple question. Define the equation as to what figures where used in calculating the "£1 they took out" figure. Was that too difficult to understand?You never need to wait long, more like the mental belly flop though
Stats are wonderful, but until you provide a full breakdown regarding factors used in the calculation it does not add much weight.Anyway. Aside from migration.
😀 E2-E4
Who feels really upbeat regarding the prospect of being a fully fledged member of a european super state?
since that is not what is under consideration for the UK, what is the relevance of the question? On its own it does not add much weight. 😉
Stats are wonderful, but until you provide a full breakdown regarding factors used in the calculation it does not add much weight.
So you wanted facts so that you could just deny them
You Brexiters sure are deep thinkers.
The impact of mass immigration is real. My daughter started school two years ago and had to go to her third choice school due to intake numbers. The school that she started had to accept double the number of kids despite there not being a classroom to accept them. The solution - stick sixty kids into one classroom that previously held thirty and run two classes with two teachers side by side. Huge numbers of these families are Eastern European. Lots of the schools facilities including art and craft areas, open space and the trim trail area have now gone so that the ring numbers can be squeezed in.
I was in a primary class of 40 during Thatcher's reign. Not a single face of colour in there either as this was London overspill Essex.
Better half is a teacher too. Her experience is that 'immigrant' kids often work harder than 'born and bred' English as their parents appreciate a world-class, taxpayer funded education.
Bloody immigrants, taking all our school spaces...
I for one hope the whole sorry rats nest comes crashing down in a big heap post "vote to stay in". It's totally f*cked and very few seem to see that. Countries with totally different fiscal policies being subsidised by the EU, only for their highly skilled / motivated citizens to seek their fortunes in another member state where quality of life is better. How will said countries ever grow their economies whilst such a model exists?
Leaving countries like Wales and Scotland?
On that note, where do you think a lot of the grant money for the original trail centres on FC land came from? Hint: it wasn't the tooth fairy. 😉
Should the 1.2m UK emigrants living in Europe be sent back if we move out of the EU?
As that's way more than immigration would allow.
I think there are more pressing issues than funding for FC trail centers. As much as I enjoy riding them.On that note, where do you think a lot of the grant money for the original trail centres on FC land came from? Hint: it wasn't the tooth fairy.
What is so entertaining about Brexit BS is that instead of focusing on the things that the EU can be genuinely criticised for they focus instead on making up stuff about issues that may make a nice headline but are obviously and easily falsified. Its an odd, if amusing, tactic...
only for their highly skilled / motivated citizens to seek their fortunes in another member state where quality of life is better.
We're not talking about Jeremy *unt's impact on the Junior Dr's that's another thread entirely 😀
yes, and in that one folk are moving in the opposite direction!!
Your making somewhat of an assumption there. Where did I say I'd deny them?So you wanted facts so that you could just deny them
You Brexiters sure are deep thinkers.
I think there are more pressing issues than funding for FC trail centers. As much as I enjoy riding them.
A decision has to begin somewhere. And that's as good a place as any. 😉
But on a serious note, it would affect funding in countries like Wales which were and are being heartily shafted by the Tories.
Where did I say you said you would deny them?
I just quoted you doing that but hey you deny it if it makes you feel good.
Anyway enough of this scribbling
What is so entertaining about Brexit BS is that instead of focusing on the things that the EU can be genuinely criticised for they focus instead on making up stuff about issues that may make a nice headline but are obviously and easily falsified. Its an odd, if amusing, tactic...
It's FUD THM, though I think you're probably well aware of that!
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt ]FUD[/url]
Admittedly both sides are guilty of this..
I'll give them credit though. At least they can come up with a multitude of reasons. The "IN" camp keep harping on "it will be bad for the economy .." You just have to look at Gideon's accurate 14 year economic prediction. I suppose you lot will be telling us next that I should accept those figures too.What is so entertaining about Brexit BS is that instead of focusing on the things that the EU can be genuinely criticised for they focus instead on making up stuff about issues that may make a nice headline but are obviously and easily falsified. Its an odd, if amusing, tactic...
Sovereignty
FFS! We live in a country with an unelected head of state who's appointed by accident of birth, one half of the legislature filled with unelected lords, a democratic system which appoints a government based on the wishes of around a 3rd of the electorate, a political class which is in the pockets of finance, corporations and lobbyists, and a good chunk of the population who base their democratic choices on what the Sun and Daily Mail shove down their ill-educated throats. And you're bothered about johnny foreigner having some say about fish quotas, farm subsidies and what a sausage is called?
both Galloway and Farage want us out, so I'm voting out
Which is largely why I'm voting in.
The line up of prominent Brexiters looks to me like a collection of xenophobic little Englanders.
Should the 1.2m UK emigrants living in Europe be sent back if we move out of the EU?As that's way more than immigration would allow.
Eh? **** that! I'll be taking out Spanish nationality before that happens 🙂
😆
APPLAUDS
At least they can come up with a multitude of reasons.
None of which are actually true
The "IN" camp keep harping on "it will be bad for the economy .
Because if there's one thing the last 2 elections have proven is that a multitude of rational arguments don't stand up against a 'you will be worse off' argument for the voters who swing the majority.
They don't care about arguments one way or t'other just the "what's in it for me?"
And I totally agree that it stinks, but that's a different issue and one we will probably never get to change.We live in a country with an unelected head of state who's appointed by accident of birth, one half of the legislature filled with unelected lords, a democratic system which appoints a government based on the wishes of around a 3rd of the electorate, a political class which is in the pockets of finance, corporations and lobbyists
One thing I do find very amusing is that as soon as you ask the in camp how they feel about tighter integration within the EU and more countries joining it goes very quiet.
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Slowoldman - be fair no one ever called Galloway a little englander - though your general point is valid. Closet racists I think is the correct term.
Countries are about two basic things. An economy that allows people to feed, house,etc themselves and picking sporting teams. We do pretty well on the latter (generally turning up with 4 to everyone else's 1) and on the former bigger blocs tend to do better in the long run. Oh yes and national food and drink - haggis, whisky, sorted.
Most other things about countries (nationalism, fighting wars etc) are bad.
And tighter integration is what stopped my father's generation being the first in a very long time not to go and die in a Franco/Germano/Anglo and possibly Spanish war. Tie their heavy industry together and that war is more difficult.
I like integration - that doesn't mean common currency - at least not without common fiscal policy.
One thing I do find very amusing is that as soon as you ask the in camp how they feel about tighter integration within the EU and more countries joining it goes very quiet.
For it, one of the UKs biggest failing is to have not integrated better. I'm not talking the euro but more the attitude to ignore and complain rather than take part, taking every decision as adversarial rather than collaborative fuelled by a euro skeptical old guard pedalling fear.
And I totally agree that it stinks, but that's a different issue and one we will probably never get to change.
So why is sovereignty on the list? If you've accepted that our own political system disenfranchises people to that extent then why is it important if we cede a little bit of power to Europe? The only people who should give a sh*t about sovereignty are the people who currently hold the levers of power, which is why they go on about it so much. The rest of us are more bothered about the economy, human rights, workers protections, not fighting wars, a future for our kids and probably most of all, being able to visit nice places abroad with a minimum of hassle.
Skiing and uplifted MTB, dazh?
as you ask the in camp how they feel about tighter integration within the EU and more countries joining it goes very quiet.
Completely comfortable with it. I like the French, Germans, Spanish, Italians etc. We can learn a lot from them and their culture, and will only benefit from closer ties. Diversity is a wonderful thing, and I completely embrace it. I'd be happy for other countries like Turkey to join too. We could help them sort out their human rights issues and conversely they could help us deal with the Islamaphobia problem. What I find odd about this whole tighter integration thing is people ignore perhaps the best example globally of how it could work for the benefit of all constituent countries. It's not done the USA any harm has it?
Because I don't vote for those making decisions in europe. For example, why should Poland have the right to veto how the UK government wanted to reform welfare rules here in the UK? Is that the type of power you are happy to cede?So why is sovereignty on the list? If you've accepted that our own political system disenfranchises people to that extent then why is it important if we cede a little bit of power to Europe? The only people who should give a sh*t about sovereignty are the people who currently hold the levers of power, which is why they go on about it so much. The rest of us are more bothered about the economy, human rights, workers protections, not fighting wars, a future for our kids and probably most of all, being able to visit nice places abroad with a minimum of hassle.
One thing I do find very amusing is that as soon as you ask the in camp how they feel about tighter integration within the EU and more countries joining it goes very quiet.
[b]SOUNDS GREAT TO ME!!![/b]
That do you?
What you mean is a federalized EU - which if we embraced the EU we'd have plenty of supporters against it (e.g. the Danish & Dutch)
As to more countries joining - all of these are very dependent upon circumstances.
Haha. Some real jokers on this forum.We could help them sort out their human rights issues.
why should Poland have the right to veto how the UK government wanted to reform welfare rules here in the UK?
Because conversely we get the power to veto things they might want to do which harm us, and collectively we all end up a little better off because of it. Or we can just take our cricket bat home if we don't get to bat first and no one gets to play.
Greater integration and a willingness to actually get properly involved in the EU is what I’m hoping will finally come out of an IN vote.
Essentially, I’m hoping the the country then realises that we DO have people we can vote into European Parliament seats to do good work. Will make a change from having UKIP people there, supposedly to represent us, then saying to everyone that we’re not represented. Go figure.
Oh - that and I’d probably be dead by now if it wasn’t for the EU. Hey ho.
Rachel
Ignore the haters. Rule Britannia, Britannia rule ...SOUNDS GREAT TO ME!!!That do you?
I'll give them credit though. At least they can come up with a multitude of made-up reasons.
which would be so much more fun if it wasn't such a serious issue
I would treat any economic forecasts especially over 14 years with a very high level of caution frankly
AND ME!! Freedom of movement for goods and services, people and capital gets my vote.
Because I don't vote for those making decisions in europe
Only yourself to blame on that front, quite happy to vote in elections for MEPs myself.
And tighter integration is what stopped my father's generation being the first in a very long time not to go and die in a Franco/Germano/Anglo and possibly Spanish war
Which sounds to me like I'm part of your father's generation. My dad made it through WWII (partly I suspect through the relative safety of incarceration as a PoW), then afterwards returned to Germany as part of the occupying forces and found himself a German wife.
