MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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My old Citroen C5 though while running well is looking shaky around the hydraulic pipes. MOT of doom is just around the corner. Their replacement would mean removing the tank and a whole world of pain.
So I've been idly looking for a replacement. A 1.9tdi Passat is the obvious contender. Easy enough to work on with cheap and plentiful parts and knowledge to keep running on a shoestring.
Then I stumbled across these V70 D5 Volvos. They look like a hell of a lot of car for the money. Does anyone have any real life experience of them. I see a few Police forces used them and that is generally a good indication of durability and performance.
I've seen a couple around a couple of grand with top spec and FSH, they seem well worth a punt. My annual mileage isn't huge but I do do a few longish trips a year so cruising comfort is a plus.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331546507710?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
My parents had one, a 4x4 D5 (not the XC) they kept it for 10 years towing a horsebox and sold it with 120,000 on it for about £3k. It shat an auto gearbox at about 90,000 miles- standard transmission between several brands of cars but still an expensive fix.
Grim to drive because of the sheer size of the thing and economy wasn't all that- 30s to 40s.
Hmm, that is the second one I've heard of that lunched its auto box. Are the manuals more durable and economical?
Everytime I've looked into buying a V70 I've been told/or discovered you'll be spending 500-700 a year on consumables and/at the service (indie or wherever).
would love to be proven wrong but I can easily get any car through a year (touch wood) on just oil/filters and occasional tyres or pads/discs.
I also read about the issues with the gearbox - some of the stories made me run away.
I wasn't blown away- felt well nailed together but the 2.4's not as strong as I'd expected and the car's heavy, and running costs were reported as being pretty damn high on consumables, wear items etc. Didn't think it was very competitive compared to a 2.2 mondeo tbh, slower, less economic, not sure if it was bigger but it [i]felt[/i] bigger. And much less bang for buck.
That said, maybe at higher miles it's more reliable than a mondeo? Though, going by the prices I saw and that ebay auction you'd get a much lower mile mondeo for the price.
I may be wrong with this but I am sure they eat tyres for fun. Mate had one and it was a beast but expensive to run.
A friend had one whose auto box suddenly died whist overtaking a truck on the A9. Thankfully nothing was coming the other way. 😯
I'm not a driving god, I just need something rugged, economical and DIY repairable.
Och well, I shall resume the search for a Passat estate.
Sounds like there's more heart than head in the V70 than the passat, which is not always a bad thing... If you asked on pistonheads they'd prob say go for the V70.
Something Japanese ?
Someone was/is selling one in the classifieds, looked nice if not a tad high on mileage. Not far off the ebay example price.
Running one at the moment , on the back of 2 Passat B5.5 which covered 125k between them.
Unsure what people mean by 'consumables' . So far , in 15k .
1 air filter
2 oil changes ( 6.5L so annoying volume )
A few bulbs , and a HID ballast £40 Ebay
Way over engineered . Everything has 4 bolts where 2 would do. Solid, safe . heavy. bad turning circle 16 1/2ft ish. I have got 57mpg over a complete tank of fuel ( 16g tank ). Mine is chipped though.
Silly low profile tyres, lots of owners go up a profile for more comfort.
D5 engine strong and refined compared to a PD lump, all ally with liners , 5 cyl, 20V , CR with a double pump system.
Mines a manual 5 speed, the newer ones are 6 speed , geartronics problematic
Clutch is important as its £800 + to swap all the gubbins .
Fuel flap is motorised and can fail
Cruise clutch switch fail and throw a dash error code.
Front wishbones lowers do not last , 2years is normal £90 ea ish.
Long cambelt intervals , think its 90K .
Apart from that , elecy seats ( heated ) are a bonus, HIDS work a treat , cruise good, auto wipers , reversing sensors. Front seats fold against dashboard for fitting in coffins.
GSF for spare parts, or ECP just as good.
4k for 180k miles? Its got a 2.0 Ford diesel for an engine?
Fix the Citroen pipes better the devil you know.
V70 is Ok but can consume - tyres - suspension wishbones
and some electrical issues - auto gearboxes "sealed for life" = destroyed
every other car manufacturer specifies oil changes for the same Aisin Warner boxes.(Lexus , Saab) Read the German and Swedish catalog to see what bits fail and hence are stocked/sold beyond service/consumables.
As with most cars that were expensive new a good one will be good a bad one expensive.
OP if your binning a C5 I'd be interested.
After my Xsara Picasso experience Im a Citreon fan.
...3months into your new/old purchase could shat a gearbox...
Better the devil you know
Fix the Citroen pipes better the devil you know.
They are the hydraulic suspension pipes. I'm not even sure if you can buy the tools to make the flares on them. It looks like a bit of a faff to get the tank out. But as you say its Le Devil I know. I've just driven 2500 miles to France and back without any hassles from it. I will see what the MOT tester says first.
Have run a 2.4 petrol 54 plate V70 for 5 years and is abused for my wife business. 140k miles.
Do my own spannering so know exactly whats going on with it.
Cons.
Firstly 'sealed for life' gearbox. They will die - but check fluid colour/smell before buying (small yellow dipstick behind the rad) black/burnt smell -walk away. However only usually found on tow cars that havnt had the extended gearbox oil cooler fitted (non genuine Volvo towbars fitment).
Fluid is £10 per litre and can be changed with a suction pump - dead easy.
Our original front wishbone bushes went at 120k. As above £90-£100 for genuine wishbones or fit polybush to the removed wishbones.
Silencer rear bracket corrodes - fit £10 ebay bracket (3 years so far).
Rear calipers seize when the rubber boots fail (100k miles), replaced with OEM.
Handbrake mechanism becomes tired around 100k - rebuild kit is £20 (IIRC), shoes £30 (all genuine Volvo).
Tyres last well (running BFG Goodridge) - but it is a big heavy car.
Alarm remote battery (so sounds if main battery removed) fails around 120k. £150 for genuine repair kit, or remove and solder in replacement battery or pull fuse #11.
Great continent crossing car but dont expect B road rallying fun - its a big heavy barge.
Our petrol is doing mid 20's- to high 30's depending on load and journey type
As above manuals have DMF to contend with so better sticking with an auto.
Some garish colour/interior combos.
Pro's
Dirt cheap
Galvanised body shells - dont rust.
Bomb proof huge interior - wifes is used for business use and often has stuff literally rammed in it, scraping the roof lining, scraping along seats. interior still looks like new.
Good forum support
Genuine Volvo parts are ok priced.
Fault codes can be 'read' without code reader. Volvo VIDA/DICE dealer level diagnostic readers are £80-100 for chinese clones
Really well built, wife crashed hers into a wall so I rebuilt the front end- seriously bigger underneath and behind the bumpers/panelwork than my Defender. Very impressed.
Most have been bought by old giffers, never abused and FDSH (ours was).
If ours was written off - I would buy another straight away without a 2nd thought. Brilliant cars.
Christ Almighty! Why hasn't someone mentioned the Skoda Octavia yet? I thought everyone on here drives one, or a Berlingo.
Boy what a let down you guys are! The OP wants an honest opinion on a car, and you all know the answer!
OCTAVIA! Whatever the budget, the answer is always OCTAVIA!
I've got a V70. Nice car.
Vast inside, comfortable, can be remapped.
Or if you don't mind petrol find the 2.4 version, quick and comfortable, makes about 180bhp if I remember right.
boot is tiny on the Honda and the lowered roofline makes it more of a sportwagon than a true estate.
And avoid first generation diesels as the oil pump slowly fails and starves the engine of oil; making it scrap.
3 lease cars at work went the same way; someone got a 'bargain' at auction.
RustyNissanPrairie - Member
Tyres last well (running [b]BFG[/b] Goodridge) - but it is a big heavy car.
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Not sure I'd want him doing my tyres with sentiments like “Two rights don't equal a left” 😉
My wife's got a V70 D5 and it's been a bit of a money pit.. 🙁 Alternator, various turbo system pipes have split, various chassis sensors, steering rack, remote key fob thing - as well as the normal consumables discs, pads...
It's one of the first of the current shape V70s (07 plate) - newer ones may be better but we've not been overly impressed with reliability. Also doing well to get over 30mpg.
If it's working, it's a nice enough place to be on a long drive and reassuringly solid. It hustles around the various A/B roads just fine - suprisingly well given its bulk.
Get your facts right. The D5 is a Volvo engine. The PSA 2ltr is the Frenchie Ford............ Just run in at that mileage, although I wouldn't buy a leggy Volvo, my mates petrol 5 cyl 2.3 is on 190 k miles and is fine4k for 180k miles? Its got a 2.0 Ford diesel for an engine?
Thats me smacked-down 😀
Ok- I'd run a car that age but I wouldn't spend 4k getting into a car with that mileage.
had v70 D5 for about 6 years, great spec, but just lots of stuff went wrong. Became very expensive. might just be that i had a bad one
V50 worth considering?
The other trouble with old diesels is the steep road tax. My pug 306 costs £250 p.a.
Er....I meant "car emissions excise duty tax"
...even the DVLA calls it as a [i]vehicle tax[/i]...
I have a late 2008 2.0l Diesel R-Design for sale if you're interested? Full service history, really does only need oil and filters in terms of maintenance.
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-58-plate-volvo-v70-20l-diesel-3950-fsh-1 ]Clicky[/url]
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Drop me an email
Still no mention of the STW car of the century!
I'm not even sure if you can buy the tools to make the flares on them.
In the past I've done loads of these pipes on BXs and Zantias. Cheap enough from the dealers, so I never bothered investigating the cost of the tool.
Hth
Marko
Well, I found a two owner V70 D5 six speed manual estate with a full service history. Collecting it on Friday.
I spoke to my MOT tester who runs one, he pointed out much of what was mentioned above. He's taken early retirement and loves working on them so I think that mitigates against the risk.
I dont think there is much to beat a phase 2 (ie previous shape) manual d5 for lugging bikes in comfort. Even the 5 speed isn't short geared. Can't really believe its being compared to a mondeo, the d5 engine is far and above better than a tdci lump, my 163 bhp eu3 model pulled like a train and returned decent economy. Cambelts are every 108k or 10 years. Expect to replace a few suspension bushes around 100k and like others have said the clutch can be expensive if combined with a dmf, but then this is an issue with all modern diesels. I had issues with the air bag on mine but i have two friends whose v70's have been faultless (one a t5 one a d5) its a heavy car so front tyres may only last 12k but 225 45 17's dont cost the earth. If you can find a decent one with full service history that looks tidy go for it! Dont expect it to handle like a BMW, but if its capable, brisk and comfortable bike carrying you need (with a cool alternative image) then you are looking in the right place. There is a reason they hold their money.
Dont expect it to handle like a BMW, but if its capable, brisk and comfortable bike carrying you need (with a cool alternative image) then you are looking in the right place.
My brother just bought an E270 estate, thought about one but it was just too bling. BMW 5 Tourings? I couldn't live with a lifetime at junctions, the sloping roof of an A6 was too limiting and I'm never going to be comfortable in an Audi.
A couple of friends have V70s, I couldn't imagine turning up at their doors in any of the above. I just need to find me a Lab and a Spaniel now.
What sort of mpg are you getting from your D5's? Much worse than the d3?
Mpg?
No idea yet. I collect it from Colchester on Friday and will drive it back to Fife. I'm curious too.
fizik - MemberCan't really believe its being compared to a mondeo, the d5 engine is far and above better than a tdci lump, my 163 bhp eu3 model pulled like a train and returned decent economy.
Comparing with a 2.0, sure, but that doesn't make much sense. The volvo makes just a couple of bhp more than the old 2.2 tdci, but roughly half the torque, so it's actually a bit slower, and certainly felt weaker on the road. And the claimed mpg is pretty bad too, IIRC it's about £100 more tax per year as a result.
MPG on the D5 215bhp (auto) is around 38-42 IME. Front tyres; just replaced my OE ones at 30k. Servicing is quite expensive at the stealer as it's every 18k or once per year at around £300. Previous cars were on variable which worked out at once every 2 years at around £200-£400 per.
My old Citroen C5 though while running well is looking shaky around the hydraulic pipes. MOT of doom is just around the corner.
Sorry to hear about the demise of the C5 - it's a good few years since you trekked down here to MK to pick it up. Sounds like it's done good service - hopefully you feel you got your money's worth out of it 🙂
That's good going on MPG! We've a D5 185bhp and struggle to get much above 33 for general running about.
Car's been generally a bit iffy - intercooler pipe burst, alternator replaced, steering rack replaced, assorted sensors needed replaced and various other annoyances. Never left us stranded but that's been as much by luck than good engineering I think.
It's a pretty nice place to be comfort-wise, drives OK and feels like it's pretty safe but overall, I'm a bit disappointed in it.
Isn't the D5 engine just an Audi 5 pot from the old 100 and early A6 models before they went to the V6 diesels?
Dont think so . Its a Common rail, 20V twin cam . All Aluminium build with bore liners.Doesnt sound like 90's tech to me ,but I could be wrong.
Last tank lasted 790miles , and worked out at 55mpg . Filling up at 107.9 / ltr isnt as painful as it was .
Tyres up to 25k now and appear about half worn . They were super cheap £37 ea new from Ebay chinese ditch finders, but have B rating for wet grip and C rating for braking iirc. Seem to steer and stop as wel as anyting else, but then Im not a dickhead who pretends / wants to be Lois Hamilton.
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My old Citroen C5 though while running well is looking shaky around the hydraulic pipes. MOT of doom is just around the corner.
Sorry to hear about the demise of the C5 - it's a good few years since you trekked down here to MK to pick it up. Sounds like it's done good service - hopefully you feel you got your money's worth out of it
Dude, it passed its test with no advisories, it's still going really well. I made three two and a half thousand mile round trips to France already this year in it. It's provided sterling service. I foresee many more round trips to France in the next couple of years so really wanted a monster mile muncher of a car.
Once I get the new car home and the plates swapped I'll sell it on again. There's still a lot of life left in it as a bike carrying wagon.
Cor blimey if I could get 38-42 I'd be more than happy, I'd be getting a manual too so will likely be a higher mpg still. I had visions of it being much thirstier so that's good to hear.
Getting to the stage now where I'm reading too much and coming across the inevitable stories of mechanical issues, but I guess you'll always find that no matter which car. Seems the same with the passat so guess it's just time to bite the bullet and hope for the best!
We have a 10 plate xc60 D5 4wd Auto and on a 'brisk' run we can manage 36 mpg. On a cruise , I have seen 46mpg, but that was Miss Daisy driving. We just had it serviced at Volvo and was £250 all in ( fixed price servicing). That included VAT and a years european breakdown and recovery and system updates, which is pretty reasonable.
Volvo used the Audi derived 5 pot diesel until 2001 then it was discontinued after that and Volvo manufactured their own unit.
Dude, it passed its test with no advisories, it's still going really well. I made three two and a half thousand mile round trips to France already this year in it. It's provided sterling service. I foresee many more round trips to France in the next couple of years so really wanted a monster mile muncher of a car.
Hooray!
Comparing with a 2.0, sure, but that doesn't make much sense. The volvo makes just a couple of bhp more than the old 2.2 tdci, but roughly half the torque, so it's actually a bit slower, and certainly felt weaker on the road. And the claimed mpg is pretty bad too, IIRC it's about £100 more tax per year as a result.
I am glad you like your mondeo. The old 163 made 340 Nm, I am guessing your mondeo 400Nm? Hardly double is it, besides there is more to it than sheer torque, the fact that every tdci engine I have heard sounds like a whiney bag of spanners from the outside would put me off straightaway, not to mention how quickly fords start to look dated. Besides in 10 years time a volvo will still be running, the mondeo likely wont (how many old ones do you see given how many they sold?) And if you compare like for like engines in terms of model year the D5 obviously was available in higher outputs of course up to 215bhp. Economy wise I cant argue (although I have been surprised how good it is with a heavy right foot) nor with tax but at the end of the day for me personally an engine should have character which the 5 cyl d5 has together with refinement a 4cyl cannot match... Currently have a c30 d5 180/400. Will likely get another 2nd phase V70 next, 185bhp variety with a remap. Its a shame the new d5's are 4 bangers.
Picked up the V70 on Friday and drove it back to Fife.
First impressions were pretty good. It's a robust tank of a car.
Despite it having a new MOT the wishbone bushes seem worn, causing some wooly steering.
For those that have them and self spanner, is it worth from,acing them with genuine Volvo parts or will pattern parts suffice. Intend to keep it until it dies so perhaps the genuine parts would make financial sense.
MPG was pretty good, mostly on motorways it returned just shy of 50mpg.
Don't bother with genuine parts.Stick to OE suppliers like Mahle,Lemforder, Mann and Hummel and TRW.
GSF are good on Volvo, but always ask for the 'best' or top quality.
Hth
Marko
fizik - MemberI am glad you like your mondeo. The old 163 made 340 Nm, I am guessing your mondeo 400Nm? Hardly double is it, besides there is more to it than sheer torque
You're right enough though, I'd misremembered the numbers. The mondeo is 400nm but that's without the transient overboost, so it's more like 33% more torque, but delivered higher and for longer. The difference in performance is substantial though- bottom line is the volvo drives and feels a lot slower on the road.
And if you compare like for like engines in terms of model year the D5 obviously was available in higher outputs of course up to 215bhp.
That's more unlike for like don't you think? 😆
I like the volve, I like the mondeo too but I'm mostly responding to your comments on the mondeo which were frankly pretty silly. The volvo has real strengths but engine performance is not one.
This may morph into a repair blog of Stoner scaled proportions.
I swapped the wishbones and ball joints and it restored the handling. I've fitted two new tyres and it feels sharper still. I'll give it a few miles to settle in, I may replace the track rod ends too and possibly a four wheel realignment.
Don't get too excited about the handling-its a massively heavy car with a million bits soft squidgy bits of rubber between the wheels and you.
Polybushing is supposed to make a big difference but at the expense of comfort
Friend has XC70, 03 plate with something like 140k miles.
He has had it from new.
He loves it, gets it serviced by the main dealer. Has had minor things go wrong with it.
I am tempted by one purely based on his experiences.
And he gets up to 45mpg.
Quick update
Never one to trust service histories I took the precaution of changing the timing belt and water pump. Code reader said it had low turbo pressure. A turbo boost solenoid and turbo boost sensor revived it to full power. I changed all the fluids and filters and all seems tickety boo.
Half way on a road trip to France. Fife to Dover on a little more than £50's worth of diesel with no real determination to drive economicaly. Im astonished to get that out of a 185bhp six speed manual tank.
So about 51mpg?
I know its a bit of a weighty car but that is about right if I have done my sums right for a good motorway run.
They're good cars; the naysayers will also be those who won't needlessly pay for genuine Volvo parts, then moan that this that & the other has gone wrong. Along with landrover discovery 4's I drive them every day of the year; I love the discos but each and every one of them has had numerous engines & gearboxes whereas the vilvos keep on plodding away. As far as I know all of the vilvos are on their originals.
We originally had them chipped for performance but this caused issues of over-fuelling and forcing diesel past the Pistons into the sump, requiring a 6-weekly sump drain (these cars run around the clock and are thrashed well beyond anything anyone on here will ever do with their own vehicle). The ecu'a were re-programmes by Volvo and have been fine since.
Compared to the old shape v70 t5's they replaced, they have the turning circles of a taxi cab. I don't like the weird floating dash th by where the radio is situated - waste of space - but they're comfy, tough, carry shit loads and go on & on & on (if you use Volvo original parts).
Five or so months of V70 ownership and I'm convinced it's the best value for money high mileage estate you can buy, with the caveat that you have a decent Volvo savvy mechanic nearby. I've made a couple of return trips to France from Scotland without complaint. If anything my only complaint is that the journeys weren't longer.
I got caught out in some unexpected snow which freaked me out a bit on summer rubber. Serendipitously some winter tyres on steel rims appeared over on the classifieds, they've transformed the handling on the white stuff immeasurably. When it dies I'll have no hesitation in replacing it with another.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/volvo-for-sale-3
They're pretty good when trees fall on them.
Mcmoonter geatronic or avoid? The V70 is on my 'to own at some point list'. They are sublime cool. Whereas Audi's are mass market look at 'meh'
I get 47 average (brim to brim calc not computer on d5)
Well know in the trade to be a real mixed bag.
Three d5s here. I love them but would not want to own one if I could not work on them myself.
Injectors fail
Intercoolers made of cheese
Dmfs made of putty
Hoses made of Bath sealant
Turbo good for 100k
Torque steer kills front tyres unless you drive like Mrs daisy
Dual pulley cam / Aux belt design - really bad!
Mine's geartronic but it buggers up the fuel consumption compared to what McMoonter is reporting.
my door control ecu has just packed up. I left it in bargain basement off site airport parking and think it was moved around a yard alot as it had a flat battery on return.
I guess they jumped it wrongly and a surge borked the door cotrol unit as I have losr drivers window up / down, drivers door central locking , and drivers door mirror heating and movement
Volvo , in their infinate wisdom fitted a one time flash memory chip in the door that is coded to the car. Scrapyard ons do not work.
Its £500 to get it fixed. which is a more than I am prepared to pay.
McM .- Change your pas fluid as well , they dont like running on old fluid , if you havent already , supposed to make the rack last longer as well
Make sure you remove dead leaves from the scuttle boards and unblock the drain holes. My S60 (2005 model) died after the entire engine management system corroded after water ingressed through the plennum gasket.
Volvo wouldnt warranty it either...barstewards.
the naysayers will also be those who won't needlessly pay for genuine Volvo parts, then moan that this that & the other has gone wrong.
er.. no.. try again. Volvo owned before we got it and dealer serviced since.
I'm glad others are getting on better than we have been - but Volvo's not where I'm looking for my next car. That said, if I need to be in a car and have a tree fall on it - the Volvo's going to be near the top of the list of cars to do it in. Glad you're OK CFH!
Hora, mine is a six speed manual. A friend had a geartronic which self destructed whilst overtaking a truck on the A9. That put me off, my mechanic says the manuals are more reliable. I did change the gear oil as a precaution though. I changed the power steering fluid too.
I think the best mpg I've seen on the dash was 54mpg at a cruise controlled sixty in sixth gear all the way up the A9.