Presumably at least life must be getting easier for genuine gypsy travellers, because there can no longer be good justification for moving them on
People keep mentioning aires,a la French style. Plenty of mayors are selling off their aires to a private company as they just do not make financial sense.Despite providing free,or very low cost facilities,money was still not being spent by the campers in the town or village.
My next door neighbour has a £90,000 motorhome and parks overnight in council car parks. I can't see the enjoyment of looking out over a big piece of empty car park as part of my weekend break.
I am constantly staggered by the price of these things, considering how many you see about. There’s a dealer near my parents which has an ocean of them, average price probably £80 – £90k. Or you can buy a 10 year old one for £40k.
I don’t know who’s buying them all, but they’re certainly wealthy enough that they won’t be worried about an extra 20p on a litre of fuel!
and when they get lumped in with campervans for people who can't afford anything they have validated that someone with a 15yr old Berlingo can afford any cost
Part of the problem with motor homes is that the owners (having spent £10s of thousands) turn out to be tight fisted and simply don’t want to pay for anything. The cognitive dissonance on the wild camping motorhome forum being a case in point. In the UK it is easy to find a campsite in a nice area. But they’re nowhere near as nicely laid out as the French sites. And the price is daft. My favourite in Keswick is nearly the same as the new premier inn. Admittedly the views are incomparable.
In short it’s complex. And as someone else said it requires localised responses in my opinion.
I just did a 2 week motorhome holiday across France. Spent £2k on fuel, Aires, visiting caves, meals out, stocking up on local wines and cheeses from each region we visited, some uplifted MTB. We didn't book anything and always had somewhere stunning to stay which was a variety of free and paid spots. We were planning a Scotland trip of similar kind in September but Tbh after reading a lot of the attitudes on here I think I'd rather just take my money back to France. Filled out the survey though just in case the people running it aren't completely close minded.
Lots of vans around and some busy spots but nothing dreadful. No mess left behind anywhere I’ve seen and I’ve been looking.
There are definitely problems in some places but they’re localised and the solutions are therefore local. No need for nationwide bans or similar hysteria, just deal with the problems where they occur.
All seems reasonable Spin but that wont fit in on this thread *wink
We are off for 11 nights next month. Booked a campsite for each night as we tour the NC500 and Skye in out T6. We will do what we always do and respect the environment and those who live in it as well as those we meet. Judging by this thread we will be the only ones.
No Surfer, when I have stayed on campsites in my tent lots of motorhomes are staying on site.
Not all people are dicks some are responsible and have respect for the environment.
This thread is like a driving thread and highlights the worst behaviour, but plenty of people are nice.
Two separate issues
1) the "dirty campers" who camp up in their vans inconsiderately and make a mess
2) the sheer numbers of folk wanting to take campervans around the highlands ecpecially in the honeypot areas
The former needs regulation and enforcement IMO - as well as more facilities- carrot and stick
the latter is a worldwide issue - ask the residents of Amsterdam, Venice Rome, Amalfi coast etc. a few years ago I spent a few days in Rome. The trevi fountains had a scrum of folk around it almost 24/7 A much harder issue to deal with
It's capitalism they are sold the dream of the open road and it works while a few people are living the dream. When the hoards catch on then it turns sour.
What do you expect to happen?
Ban overnight road side parking is my veiw. Would love to be able to but it isn't right. After many years of holiday cottages and fake camping (that's a family tent on a fixed site with facilities as far as I am concerned ) we succumbed and bought a VW fully kitted thingy. Before covid made it silly. Only ever had one night by the side of a road,well ferry slip way.
The fun has gone. The point of it was to be by ourselves but now , why bother?
I also feel thoroughly embarrased by the whole thing, driving around in the big white monstrosity. We don't support the local economy apart from site fees as no one in their right mind buys exotic venison burgers etc from estate shops or eats in twee cafes.
I do feel that it is pricing partly to blame but that's just market forces.
Off the Aviemore soon (god help us!) . I bet the ski road laybys will be a white city.
A thought though. Many here are wondering what the point of so called quiet road side sleeping is if it isn't quiet. Should we not extend this thought? Why go to a place for its wildness then bring in civilisation? I would love to see a time whereby we don't encourage visitors by adding car parks and toilets which ultimately are environmental disasters. That would also reduce footpath erosion , MTB damage etc.
Of course where is the line? Ultimately we need a pandemic that we cannot stop.
Our motorhome went quite a few years ago, and to be honest even then (born in Scotland done LOTS of it in the 60s and 70s with my parents) I thought it was fairly crowded and bad habits pretty common (inability to take litter home, toilet dumping inappropriately, inability to let faster vehicles pass on single tracks, parking ejittery, full campsites in remote areas, inability to walk any distance so you can park out of the way etc etc) that took the joy out of it for me so we stopped. I’d probably support a move to something like the formal sites as now and ‘designated overnight stop places only’ (with a single centrally controlled up to date register so booking/ availability checkable) with a fixed maximum charge for given facilities so that local councils/locals can get some income from it but I can’t see it happening (though JustPark etc suggest it appears to be possible)
We were planning a Scotland trip of similar kind in September but Tbh after reading a lot of the attitudes on here I think I’d rather just take my money back to France
Don't pay any attention to all the doom sayers. If you're smart about where you go and responsible when you get there you won't have any issues or cause any issues.
Ah, the NIMBYism (and maybe some jealousy) is strong on this thread. Just remember that there will be arseholes (in vans, motorhomes, riding bikes, driving cars, drinking beer…) in all walks of life.
Great to see the traditional British solution being suggested though ; BAN THEM ALL!
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Maybe better to look at solutions that work for everyone. Interesting to read about the lack of public toilets in the Highlands.</span>
Personally, I can’t wait for my September motorhome trip to Scotland where I’ll shop locally, eat in cafes & restaurants, drink in local pubs and see my family.
We were planning a Scotland trip of similar kind in September but Tbh after reading a lot of the attitudes on here I think I’d rather just take my money back to France
Just ignore the grumpy ones on here. You’ll be made very welcome as long you’re respectful.
a few years ago I spent a few days in Rome. The trevi fountains had a scrum of folk around it almost 24/7 A much harder issue to deal with
You being one of them of course.
Indeed I was Drac. Just an illustration of too many folk meaning that the experience is spoiled
Don’t pay any attention to all the doom sayers. If you’re smart about where you go and responsible when you get there you won’t have any issues or cause any issues.
There are still some spots where I'm regularly surprised to see no one parked up. These do tend to be away from the honeypot areas. When you know, you know 😉
Yeah I’ve seen a few but I’ve not bothered and like to use a site or at least have a toilet.
Indeed I was Drac. Just an illustration of too many folk meaning that the experience is spoiled
That’s just a tourist thing in general though, been like that for decades in areas that have ‘must see’ site. We’re off to Italy next year with the van, we’ll be looking for quieter areas, we want to experience the food, hospitality, drink, scenery and relax. Probably do a few ‘must see’ spots if near to one but we plan on using public transport.
That’s just a tourist thing in general though, been like that for decades in areas that have ‘must see’ site
As I said above - its getting worse tho with various places taking steps to actually reduce mass tourism. But yes - its a worldwide issue
Yeah a growing population will do that.
Plenty of sites have availability below is a popular NC500 site on a beach. The car park also allows overnight camping for £10 I think and it has loos. It is not even showing low availability on any days this month
It's no so much a growing population as a long term reduction in airfares in traditional markets and a massive increase in wealth across Asia that increased demand for internation tourism. Plus also maybe a bit of fascination for not just going to Rome, but getting the specific photo at the right corner of the Spanish Steps in the golden hour so you can put it in Instagram
Great to see the traditional British solution being suggested though ; BAN THEM ALL!
Who, specifically, is suggesting that?
Yes, no doubt the cheap air travel is also to blame. That seems less of a thing now then it was.
“it either needs to be banished by enforcement…”
“The answer is dont buy a motorhome as there isnt the camping sites available for them”
“I have said councils shouldn’t build campsites”
Theres definitely a strong anti vibe from a couple of posters, yourself included @politecameraaction
Tiny city with a ridiculous amount of tourist footfall, I’m not surprised. Was thinking of going on our tour next year, I may give it a miss. That said we’ll be in the area in low season.
Theres definitely a strong anti vibe from a couple of posters, yourself included @politecameraaction
If you think "the council shouldn't subsidise your expensive hobby" is the same as "ban them all", you've got quite a persecution complex! 🤣
Scotroutes however does make a good point about funding Aires could lead to more cash in to the local communities - the rationale for the 7 stanes and the edinburgh festivals
And it was the justification for the NC500, but that's not worked out so well...
HERALDSCOTLAND.COM The NC500 was promoted by a private company to increase visitor numbers. There was no/little discussion within the local communities and no involvment from the council. Indeed, it took a few years before the council installed the road signs. Some of the individuals involved have since gone on to buy-out some of the hotels on the route and have made a tidy profit from it all.
nc 500 took off in a way that was not expected and also shows a total lack of planning - camper van stops should have been built and built into the itinerary. Its fair to say the upset and annoyance is not a feeling universally shared amongst residents
The small community here is heavily dependent on tourism in summer, but the needs of visitors needs to be balanced with the needs of island residents. We have an acute shortage of affordable homes or long-term rentals to the degree that the school can’t attract or retain teachers in certain subjects, there are vacancies in nursing and social care and some businesses are restricting opening hours due to lack of staff. Kind of difficult argument to make that spending should be allocated to building overnight spots for campers when there’s a campsite up the road and typically half-a-dozen freeloaders in the harbour car park. If campervan and motorhome users want better facilities then they need to demonstrate they’re prepared to pay for it - based on their current behaviour, then that’s a resounding no.
I guess my problem is I'm a bit of a tourism and activity anarchist. Seeing yet another 'secret spots to visit' Web or newspaper article fills me with dread. I really want the old days back, where scruffy obsessive oiks found our way to activities and places rather than having them flogged to all by interested parties. I've actually given up some places and activities because they are overrun. Random example of how even an ultra specialised niche activity can be done to death is cave diving in the Lot and Dordogne. Its virtually a mainstream activity now. And quite heavily monetised.
I should also admit a level of hypocrisy, given how many guide books are on my bookshelves!
If campervan and motorhome users want better facilities then they need to demonstrate they’re prepared to pay for it – based on their current behaviour, then that’s a resounding no.
Based on the number of fully booked campsites I’d disagree. There are those though who have a self entitlement and think they have the absolute right to park where they like for free. I
Those looking to Councils to provide facilities; Highland Council had (has?) a projected budget shortfall of almost £50 million this financial year (and £70+ million for the next 3-4 years on top of that). I doubt it’s the only one in that sort of situation (I don’t know the exact situation of the Council I currently work for but I know of 50% cuts on some colleagues budgets, he frequently talks about what he can’t do rather than what he can…)
They are in danger of not being able to fulfil their statutory obligations to their residents (and tax payers) before looking to serve the needs of those out with their jurisdiction. Pretty sure public conveniences aren’t a statutory requirement, that’s why some are being closed…
Unsurprisingly budgets have been slashed, there is nothing spare. And if facilities were provided you can be sure they won’t be for free; everything that can be monetised pretty much has been (or will be) cf parking, EV charging, brown bins, etc. Welcome to Austerity Britain 💩
It’s pretty much the exact same situation writ larger (ie no-one wants to pay the price things actually cost…).
ETA: what @dovebiker said; perfect example of the issues.
Based on the number of fully booked campsites I’d disagree.
+1
I’m happy to pay to stay overnight somewhere but I don’t need any facilities other than water & waste probably twice a week. France, Spain, Italy, Germany and other countries have this pretty sorted. Anything from €5 to €15 per night and maybe €3 if you want to use the water & waste service point, although I did pay €28 per night for a great location in Cadiz. However that was very much an exception.
When I’m away I’ll do a mix of campsites, paid aires, and free spots depending on the location & services. It’s a great way to holiday & really explore an area. It’s not going to go away so why not try to come to a solution that works for the locals as well as the tourists. From previous comments it seems there’s a shortage of public toilets so you could tie them together somehow.
I’ve been to some aires in France that catered for probably 75 motorhomes, charging €8 per night plus €3 if you wanted water & waste. Everyone paid and everyone was spending locally. It wasn’t anything fancy, just a big gravel & grass area on the edge of Le Crotoy. Very busy in July & August bringing in approx €800 a day. That’d pay for itself pretty quickly even if you scaled it down loads.
I don’t think anyone is advocating for free facilities or to have their holiday subsidised. I think the real issue is that some people are ignoring rule number 1, as they do in all walks of life. Those people won’t care if you ban it; they’ll just keep doing it.