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No, not VW Transporters and their associated "scene tax"... I've known about that for a long time.
I'm talking proper commercial vehicles... Big boxes on wheels... Full size Transits, Mercedes Sprinters, VW Crafters, Citroen Relays, Peugoet Boxers etc...
I'm looking at buying a van myself right now for a few reasons. 20 odd years ago when I did a bit of part time van driving for delivery companies, these vehicles were cheaper than a car to buy... Bigger and heavier, yes, but much simpler and because they were essentially just a box on wheels, the price reflected that. Now...? I am genuinely shocked! I was speaking to a friend about his 5yr old LWB Sprinter with 80k on the clock the other day, he says he'll be selling it soon (to get another)... It'll be up for £20k +VAT he says (the replacement he's ordered is over £60k +VAT!!!). Wasn't long ago that brand new they weren't that... Steel might be twice the price it was 20yrs ago, but it's still 30% cheaper than it was during the height of the COVID pandemic, but it still wouldn't count for the crazy prices vans are going for now!
I've had a good look around... It seems anything under £10k has been to the moon, is covered in dents, or has mechanical issues that you'd want to avoid... £15k seems to be about the point where you might get a reasonable van to last a few years if you really look after it, but it'll be leggy and still a spartan spec. How did this happen?
I appreciate that cars have got more expensive too, but considering I've bought quite a few of them over the years, they haven't really got much more expensive than they were 20yrs ago I don't think, at least for what you get... But I'm staggered by the price of vans these days! They genuinely cost far more than the sum of their parts!
Fish and chips £12.10, take out in Berwick upon Tweed yesterday.
Once prices go up like during Covid, container ship and opportunistic events they never come down. It’s Capitalism at it’s finest.
Fish and chips £12.10, take out in Berwick upon Tweed yesterday.
Once prices go up like during Covid, container ship and opportunistic events they never come down. It’s Capitalism at it’s finest.
For sure, I'm more than aware of the problems brought about by COVID and the lack of pace the markets have recovered at...
I'm talking specifically about vans though, because they seem to be well outside the reach of expected inflation in my view... I used cars as an example above, that I think value of them is arguably better now than it was say 20yrs ago... But look at the price of oil, or the price of the fuel we fill them with... Oil is cheaper than its been in decades (and makes a mockery of Trump's "liberation of Venezuela" argument), fuel is almost the same price now as it was 20yrs ago despite probably 80-90% inflation during the same period...
Vans seem to be on a similar trajectory with houses... Their inflation far exceeding market expectations and inflation rises, year on year... And I can't work out why!
Perhaps it’s to do with tax rules regarding equipment and plant? It can be written down against tax, therefore the actual price doesn’t matter to a business as ultimately the price is paid by the Government? Business can, and do charge exorbitant prices also to pay for their luxury transportation, I prefer a tradesperson in an old scruffy van!
Bought one last year. 3 years old £30k. Does have 7 leather seats and windows. Nice van. Bloody expensive but I am keeping it. Has a fold out bed system under the rear parcel shelf that Ive added (van gear stuff).
Perhaps it’s to do with tax rules regarding equipment and plant? It can be written down against tax, therefore the actual price doesn’t matter to a business as ultimately the price is paid by the Government?
The owner still has to pay for it... Whether the cost of it can be written off against taxes or not is largely irrelevant... If you made £50k profit in a year, but spent £30k on a van, you would pay corporation tax on the £20k profit at 19%, or £3800 in other words... If you didn't buy the van, you'd pay £9500 in coproration tax... The difference there is £5700, which I don't think it takes a genius to work out is a whole lot less than £30k!!!
Business can, and do charge exorbitant prices also to pay for their luxury transportation, I prefer a tradesperson in an old scruffy van!
To each their own... But do you know what the trades people I know like having... A reliable van that they don't need to worry about whether or not it will get them to a job or not without breaking down, and also one that doesn't make them look like Del Boy and Rodney's dodgy mate when they turn up to a job! Besides, the kind of stuff I'm looking at, there would be a lot of subcontracting for other businesses, and they all require you to have a cosmetically presentable van with no physical damage, and obviously you don't get paid if you don't turn up cos it's broken down!
I ended up buying a Vauxhall Zafira 2.0 Turbo diesel and just putting the back seats down.
It was just under £3K with 98K miles. The cheapest 'van' I could find of similar size and mileage was a Transit Connect with 106K miles for about £5K. The Zafira has the advantage that you can put the seats back up and have a 7 seater car. Dull as ... but still useful
Covid shortages and longer term backlog, bought a VW Caddy used it for 4 years and sold at a slight profit in 2023 when the leaser I ordered 18m earlier finally turned up! Lease was £260pm for 2 years, then I tried to replace with another Caddy in 2025 and it had risen to £500+ a month, prices crazy still.
Perhaps it’s to do with tax rules regarding equipment and plant? It can be written down against tax, therefore the actual price doesn’t matter to a business as ultimately the price is paid by the Government? Business can, and do charge exorbitant prices also to pay for their luxury transportation, I prefer a tradesperson in an old scruffy van!
I hope you don't run a business 🙂
Fish and chips £12.10, take out in Berwick upon Tweed yesterday.
Nice. What mpg do you get from it?
Probably got more expensive around the time that marketing decided vans shouldn't be left out from being hot sexy desirable luxury transport 😉
It's van lifers innit. Everyones in a van now, it's cool, get away from the crowd living the dream in a faux by four swamper. All parked up in a layby livin their best life.
So basically supply and demand. More demand, price goes up.
See also houses
Welcome to the 2020s.
Probably got more expensive around the time that marketing decided vans shouldn't be left out from being hot sexy desirable luxury transport
I'm talking this...
Not this...
You do realise the difference right...?
See also houses
Yes, it seems that large vans have been matched in price rises only by large houses! Both have dramatically exceeded market expectations and the rate of inflation over the years...
Yeah, more people want the top one… much better for even a semi-conversion if you want to take whatever your lifestyle accessories are with you… dog, bikes, kids, whatever… all those windows and seats of the second one are what people end up with when they find out they can’t afford a real van in the 2020s. Or they end up with an estate or people carrier as a compromise.
Lots of people would rather have a real van to kit out how they want and hide away themselves and their (lots of) stuff. Try fitting a toilet in the second example you have there… [ just about manages to avoid writing anything sexist ]. And then people want showers… dog cages… secure garage for a pair of e-bikes… a motorbike… the twins… whatever.
I don’t think sole traders pay corporation tax?
Need to consider the ever increasing “driver owner” economy (a lovely way to pass all risk and cost on to delivery drivers rather than employ them)… having a real van as you only form of transport and your literal bread and butter has helped change ownership patterns, demand and price as well.
Need to consider the ever increasing “driver owner” economy (a lovely way to pass all risk and cost on to delivery drivers rather than employ them)… having a real van as you only form of transport and your literal bread and butter has helped change ownership patterns, demand and price as well.
I agree, that, more than anything, is keeping prices up
You do realise the difference right...?
I was thinking in terms of trickle-down features from the top-end lifting the price of dfferent/lower spec models. Just a guess, wouldn't surprise me. We know how capitalism works. Profit is king, any chance to raise price taken.
I ended up buying a Vauxhall Zafira 2.0 Turbo diesel and just putting the back seats down.
How many euro pallets can you get in the back of a Zafira?
A 4 metre long worktop...?
4 full size motorbikes maybe...?
How about enough space to work inside it as a make shift workshop...?
I don’t think sole traders pay corporation tax?
They don't... They pay income tax at the usual 20 or 40% rate on any income over £12,570 as well as national insurance... So a capital purchase such as a van does limit their tax liability in the year it was purchased in much the same way that being a limited company does. The van still has to be paid for though!
Need to consider the ever increasing “driver owner” economy (a lovely way to pass all risk and cost on to delivery drivers rather than employ them)… having a real van as you only form of transport and your literal bread and butter has helped change ownership patterns, demand and price as well.
Fair point... I suspect this more than anything has indeed changed the demand for them, and hence the prices!
I was thinking in terms of trickle-down features from the top-end lifting the price of dfferent/lower spec models. Just a guess, wouldn't surprise me. We know how capitalism works. Profit is king, any chance to raise price taken.
A van like the Citroen Relay I pictured above, is about as simple as a motorised vehicle gets! OK, they've got air con and Nav these days, but that's about it... It is otherwise, 6 metres of steel box with a basic diesel engine, a manual box, leaf springs and that really is about it... There's more tech features in an entry level Supermini these days, for a fraction of the price!
And Capitalism ceased to be all about profit some time ago... It's about acquisition of property and market share, whilst keeping everyone else in perpetual debt... But this is somewhat detracting from the topic...
I appreciate that cars have got more expensive too, but considering I've bought quite a few of them over the years, they haven't really got much more expensive than they were 20yrs ago I don't think, at least for what you get...
They really, really have though. A VW Golf starts at about 28k. In 2005 they started around 12k. Yes, the base spec has a few more toys but that's still disproportionate to inflation. Same applies to vans, and to ignore the effect of the van life gang is naive. Even VW might have trouble selling a 65k FancyVan if the actual van it was based on was 20k.
Second hand prices are still huge compared to what they used to be as well. I bought plenty of run of the mill sub 1k cars 20 years ago, equivalents now are probably 4k+
I've always had vans in the past but I've just accepted that I've been priced out and stopped worrying about it. I can't have an Escort Cosworth or a Delta Integrale either.
I'm happy with our Octavia and a Buzzrack. Where I used to kip in a van I now stay in a Premier Inn and enjoy the comfy bed and hot showers.
Found the original purchase receipt for my dad's 2016 nv400 business.l2h2
He bought it new in Edinburgh. 14900 GBP Inc vat , ply lining and factory tow bar install.
Today new forecourt price 28k +vat +towbar + ply lining.
Looks to be about 6k to sell on the market today.
How ever - today's business edition has far more toys and is much more ergonomic to drive than even the 2016 model.
I don’t think sole traders pay corporation tax?
Does this mean someone running a fish and chips van?
I'm confused
To use stw parlance, some of these vans are a great plaice to be
Especially the turbot charged ones , they are just brill. A quick dab on the throttle is all they need
The vans (like cars) are now rammed with high tech stuff and it's not a like for like comparison if you say a new Transit costs X% more than a new one 20 years ago.
Using a car based example based on the three VAG cars that have been in my possession in the last 20 years.
New Golf in 2005, a 1.9TDI Sport and P11D value was around £16k.
I currently have a mid range Skoda diesel from 2019 and I had a 2012 Passat in between
emissions
Golf Euro IV, no adblue system, no stop start
Passat, Euro V, no adblue with stop start
Skoda Euro VI a lot more complex systems including adblue and stop start
safety/driving systems
Golf ABS, ESP, aircon, manual handbrake
Passat add: sat nav, bluetooth, parking sensors, cruise control, dual zone climate, electronic handbrake, launch control, heated seats, heated front screen & heated electric mirrors
Skoda add: collision warning system, blind spot detection, emergency manoeuvre braking, adaptive cruise control,
That's just the ones I've noticed in the menu system.
The Skoda has nearly 1.5x the power of the Golf but manages to return roughly the same MPG despite being bigger and heavier.
None of this stuff is top end spec and if you had the latest 2026 stuff it would have a load of additional tech on top.
None of those had self parking or trailer assist or speed limit sign readers etc.
TLDR shorter version
Vans and cars are increasingly laden with complex safety and emissions technology due to a mix of regulation, ratings and consumer demand.
A transit still sits in the same broad use space as it always did but a 2026 Transit is a completely different vehicle vs. a 2006 one Vs. a 1986 one in terms of construction, emissions, capabilities and safety. Just focussing on general inflation barely scrapes the surface of the price escalation.
Anecdotally this tech is leading to more write offs. What would have been a fender bender 20 years ago perhaps, a new bumper and headlights and some ancillaries now destroys high cost (parts, labour and calibration) complex radar and camera systems in the front bumper.
Does this mean someone running a fish and chips van?
I'm confused
To use stw parlance, some of these vans are a great plaice to be
Especially the turbot charged ones , they are just brill. A quick dab on the throttle is all they need
Keep that up and you're gong to get battered, son.
I've seen a fair few companies move to Maxus vans as they are a lot cheaper than Ford etc...
https://www.saicmaxus.co.uk/our-range/new-vans/deliver-9/
Keep that up and you're gong to get battered, son.
Less of your sauce
Need to consider the ever increasing “driver owner” economy (a lovely way to pass all risk and cost on to delivery drivers rather than employ them)… having a real van as you only form of transport and your literal bread and butter has helped change ownership patterns, demand and price as well.
I agree, that, more than anything, is keeping prices up
We have gone through a market distortion and regardless of what vans are costing new the market has changed for second hand vans with both the van-lifers and courier/parcel owner/drivers competing for the same vans second hand
Covid seems a long time ago now but the disruption in production continued for quite a while after. I bought my current van in late 2022. I would previously of happily bought high mile used vans for £2k-£5k and use them for 6-8 years/ another 100k and still be able to sell them on.
In 2022 £10k would basically get you....a van that has been in an accident. I went to a commercials dealership outside Glasgow - they had about 50 vans on the forecourt - all between £10k and £20k and all had really obvious reasons not to buy them at any price. They were absolute dregs that would only ever be on-going money pits. Basically anyone who had and used a van for work at the time was hanging on to it unless it was a total liability to own so their only source of stock was stuff that really should have been written off
It became clear that it just wasn't rational to buy a used van at that point in time..... but, you couldn't buy a new one either. Non of the dealerships in Scotland had any stock. They'd offer to put me on their waiting list - telling me things like 'theres a 12 week waiting but we can't tell you how long it will take to get on that waiting list'. There was lots of stuff on autotrader but what was actually being offered were for places on waiting lists for vans dealers might never actually get
After a fair bit of searching - the nearest dealer to me in Scotland that actually had new vans to sell, actually in their possession, was in Swansea. So with my £5k budget I bought a £37k van sight unseen over the phone and paid someone to drive it up to me 🙂
If you're looking to buy second hand now you're buying from people who had to jump through the same hoops to get it
Around the same time I was getting deliveries from a guy who'd had to buy a cruddy covid-project van-lifer conversion and rip it all out to be able to use it as van again
Everyone buying big vans now. A load of the Transporter lot are doing it after realising a Transporter sized van with a pop top is nothing more than a metal tent v a Sprinter/Crafter which you could buy for peanuts a few years back, convert and have something you can stand up in, have a shower/bog etc and loads of living space.
I think it’s a valid question and I’m happy to speculate. Particularly as i might be in for a converted van.
From my point of view the first thought is Euro 6 might still be having an effect. There must be loads of businesses that have a van and the pressure for that to be Euro 6 must be huge and that must effect the used market
Has leasing become the norm? I think that can be a huge market distortion. You use to make a car and sell it. The new owner has an asset to sell and chooses who services it and how to dispose of it. Now you rent it to the some one. So the servicing etc. definitely comes to you. You also control the used market too as you that’s the market you actually sell into.
If that is true of the van market too maybe that is the answer. You keep the new sale price artificially high to make leasing look more attractive. Then sell at higher price into the used market which you now control?
Combine that with more shopping online increasing demand for vans meaning there is more demand for vans
Are we at the point where people will buy converted vans and take everything out?
https://www.rvsupercentre.co.uk/2024-etrusco-v-59-2.html
on the flip side - electric cars are haemorrhaging money in depreciation - just picked up at 36k list price car 9 months old for 20k
Are people actually paying the list price for vans? I'd rather assumed that finance had done the same to vans as it had to houses, cars, bikes, etc. Whilst £60k sounds like a huge sum of money for a metal box, when it's presented as 48 x £650 (and ignore the lack of an asset at the end) it is more palatable.
48 x £650 (and ignore the lack of an asset at the end) it is more palatable.
is 650 quid a good number to drop off your top line every month ? People clearly have a lot more money than me !
Never cost me more than £650 in a year to fix our two old cars !
indeed but rust will get them eventually. anything under 10 years old 650 quid could easily be a single repair on the emissions control system or wet belt. #
that said - the same things were said about the early days of fuel injection , Turbos , Common rail injection , variable geometry turbos and dual mass flywheels. - and the cost of all those common pinch points have been brought under control.
is 650 quid a good number to drop off your top line every month ? People clearly have a lot more money than me !
Depends on what the van is doing. They are how people make money not how they spend them. Around £30 a day? you'd spend 5 times that on fuel. You'd prob spend more than £30 on sandwiches and coffees if it's a long day. You'd certainly loose a lot of money just breaking down regardless of what a repair costs becuase its not what it costs but how long it takes.
By comparison - in your instagram storied conversion if you breakdown at least you can make a cup of tea while you wait for the tow truck
Never cost me more than £650 in a year to fix our two old cars !
You've been very, very lucky then!!
Never cost me more than £650 in a year to fix our two old cars !
Big vans have big parts - there not really comparable to cars in terms of a lot of servicing and repair costs. And some simple service elements a getting very spendy now. Just the oil for an oil change on my van is about £140
Walked in expecting a conversation about footwear...
A van like the Citroen Relay I pictured above, is about as simple as a motorised vehicle gets! OK, they've got air con and Nav these days, but that's about it... It is otherwise, 6 metres of steel box with a basic diesel engine, a manual box, leaf springs and that really is about it... There's more tech features in an entry level Supermini these days, for a fraction of the price!
A modern Van has pretty much the same ADAS requirements as a modern car, all of which are mostly software bits with some additional sensors etc. Just like the Mini. These 'gadget's are cheap. They cost a lot to develop, but they are cheap to build once done so.. The people that pay loads extra for 'tech' options on cars, are the ones that are getting reamed.
But what is expensive - is metal. Big panel pressings to do a 6 metre van. Big castings. big solid axles. A production line that can handle all that. 3 times as much paint to paint it. All the stuff you need to make a big strong durable panel van. The material and manufacturing cost of those bits is way more significant (and volatile!) than the cost of turning an option on in a software menu.
The mini simply has less of the expensive stuff, with a thin veneer of modern pizazz and gloss over the top. The consumer does not see, or have any appreciation, of whats underneath.
The van has much more of the expensive, 'real' engineering and manufacturing costs (that the consumer does not understand or comprehend) simply by it being bigger/more of it. But it doesnt have the chintz laid over the top. This is why to the consumer, you, it appears that the van is poor value compared to the Mini.
Walked in expecting a conversation about footwear...
Same. Although it would have still been relevant as Vans trainers have increased considerably in price too.
Yeah, more people want the top one… much better for even a semi-conversion if you want to take whatever your lifestyle accessories are with you… dog, bikes, kids, whatever…
Don't forget to add a couple of roof boxes because, mystifyingly, there's not enough room in the huge van!
The vans (like cars) are now rammed with high tech stuff and it's not a like for like comparison if you say a new Transit costs X% more than a new one 20 years ago.
Using a car based example based on the three VAG cars that have been in my possession in the last 20 years.
New Golf in 2005, a 1.9TDI Sport and P11D value was around £16k.
I currently have a mid range Skoda diesel from 2019 and I had a 2012 Passat in between
emissions
Golf Euro IV, no adblue system, no stop start
Passat, Euro V, no adblue with stop start
Skoda Euro VI a lot more complex systems including adblue and stop start
safety/driving systems
Golf ABS, ESP, aircon, manual handbrake
Passat add: sat nav, bluetooth, parking sensors, cruise control, dual zone climate, electronic handbrake, launch control, heated seats, heated front screen & heated electric mirrors
Skoda add: collision warning system, blind spot detection, emergency manoeuvre braking, adaptive cruise control,
That's just the ones I've noticed in the menu system.
The Skoda has nearly 1.5x the power of the Golf but manages to return roughly the same MPG despite being bigger and heavier.
None of this stuff is top end spec and if you had the latest 2026 stuff it would have a load of additional tech on top.
None of those had self parking or trailer assist or speed limit sign readers etc.
TLDR shorter version
Vans and cars are increasingly laden with complex safety and emissions technology due to a mix of regulation, ratings and consumer demand.
A transit still sits in the same broad use space as it always did but a 2026 Transit is a completely different vehicle vs. a 2006 one Vs. a 1986 one in terms of construction, emissions, capabilities and safety. Just focussing on general inflation barely scrapes the surface of the price escalation.
Anecdotally this tech is leading to more write offs. What would have been a fender bender 20 years ago perhaps, a new bumper and headlights and some ancillaries now destroys high cost (parts, labour and calibration) complex radar and camera systems in the front bumper.
or in other words your forced to pay for a load of stuff you don’t want and will never use. Blind spot monitoring used to be called looking out of the window. Launch control was called having competent use of a clutch pedal. I never found pulling on a handbrake hard enough to need an electric one
Was there a recent change in the tax status of pick up trucks? So if there is no advantage to owning a pickup truck for your business it is probably better to own a van instead? Thus increasing demand on the second hand van market?