[Closed] Van or Fast?

I've been more thrown towards the Subaru as I've wanted one since I was a child.

You better get one then.

I'm yet to learn that the hard way, as I've never had one!

A Subaru will probably fix that for you then. Fun cars but a myriad of potential issues. Choose carefully.

But its reputation as a bike wagon is unheard of!

Get a pre 2007 Subaru Forester, an STI import if you want properly quick (0-60 in the 4s). Small enough to be agile but big enough for a couple of bikes with the front wheels off. . Utterly brilliant cars.
or a leggy if you want a bit more space...

You'll never think about buying a german van ever again.

The leggy has more space than the forester?

It's longer. The Forester is taller.

I loved my Forester - keep thinking about getting an STI import. The bills on the last one were bad enough though so I keep deciding against it!

At the moment I am waiting to see if there are any punitive measures set up against diesel engines before deciding what to do next. I have the Vito for just shy of another 2 years (which is pretty nippy for a van). I keep thinking I should get a private car again though for when the works vehicle is off the road (and cheaper to run when I need it too), but it would be very, very old and cheap so a Scooby is probably *not* the best idea!!!!

If you've always wanted a Subaru then that is what you should get as if you get anything else you'll always wonder and probably regret it. Some things you just have to get it out of your system.

But what do you think fast is? If you think you're going to be driving much faster than in a van then you're mistaken. A van will sit at 80 mph on a motorway all day, and you won't be (or shouldn't be) going much faster than that for any length of time that will make any significant difference to journey time. But the reality is the majority of time your speed will be limited by the speed of the traffic you're driving in, and the majority of the rest of the time the car will be sat stationary in the car park at work or outside your house. So your 'need for speed' will only really be fed by the odd blast up the motorway slip road or shooting off from the lights or something like that. So buying into a fast car and all the continual high costs that come with it is a pretty high premium to pay for such a small amount of joy. And it doesn't take long for the novelty to wear off and all you can see and feel is the financial millstone hanging round your neck.

But then i'm old and boring and have just bought a van.

The general advice I've been given is that its just not worth having a fast car, but I'm yet to learn that the hard way, as I've never had one!

I went from a hot hatch - Alfa 145 Cloverleaf - to a Defender TD5. I get to wherever I am going in about the same time. In fact, one evening I left work, got passed getting onto the motorway by a Porsche and caught up with it at the traffic lights 6 miles away. You generally need to drive like a psychopath in a fast car in order to make any appreciable difference in your journey time. It just isn't worth it.

TL;DR - carrying capacity is more practical than more speed that you can't use.

If you're only going to use a van as a van once a year, get the fast car and hire the van when you need it, but I do agree with the point that the car won't actually make journeys faster.

Speaking as a van owner.

tthew
but I do agree with the point that the car won't actually make journeys faster.

cranberry

I went from a hot hatch - Alfa 145 Cloverleaf - to a Defender TD5. I get to wherever I am going in about the same time. In fact, one evening I left work, got passed getting onto the motorway by a Porsche and caught up with it at the traffic lights 6 miles away. You generally need to drive like a psychopath in a fast car in order to make any appreciable difference in your journey time. It just isn't worth it.

TL;DR - carrying capacity is more practical than more speed that you can't use.

I don't think anyone actually buys a fast car to shorten journey times do they? Not locally anyway. I agree with the points you make but I don't think that's the reason for owning a "fast" car. Engaging / entertaining drive and the ability to overtake at will or put some distance between other road users are the main benefits.

Meh fast car is a one trick pony.

I've had vans for the last 8 years basically as soon as I could insure one.

So much more useful for me than a fast car would ever be.

So useful that the Mrs requested a berlingo (my van used to be a pug partner) so she could throw bikes in whole.

Just upgraded to an iveco daily camper conversion with a garage. I've structured my life so that I don't need an every day car to go to the office in and so can live with the mid 20s mpg (which tbh a Subaru will give you anyway)

The garage on the ivecos as big as the old van so I'm not missing out on my load lugging space. It's so much cushier for open road cruising -cruise control and a fridge in the back keeping my beer cool for when. I get there....It'll be a while I'm limited to the lower limits.....And yet if I need to travel somewhere the van will cope - I might just have to park further away due to its enormous length and height:)

Van driving is a bit slow on the twisty A roads round here (and legally limited to 50), though I agree it doesn't make any practical difference to journey times. Just means I take a bit longer catching up to the next lorry/tractor and more often have a car behind than in front.

You can have your cake and eat it.

http://vans.honestjohn.co.uk/van-news/new-vans/2014-11/mercedes-benz-vito-sport-x-driven/

Fast van?

I believe it's possible to fit a Subaru engine in one of those old German potting sheds.

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Clicky linky picture

It's longer. The Forester is taller.

But the Forester is longer than a Berlingo. I think the Forester has near ideal proportions for a load space, though the rear struts are a little intrusive. Rear seats fold in 5 seconds to give a perfectly flat load space. The front seats are more comfortable than anything you will ever have sat in, oh, and my S turbo was cheaper to insure (and run, as I found out) than the Berlingo that followed.
Bugger it! I'm going to sell the Outback and get another Foz!

If you're without kids then a van with bed will be so much more rewarding than a performance car, IMO.

Wish #vanlife had been a thing when I was younger.

the ability to overtake at will or put some distance between other road users are the main benefits.

Right up until 2 seconds later when you are stuck right behind the next road user. 😉

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't get a fast car, or drive something nice, but the idea of the open road and open throttle is not something I have seen replicated in reality for some years - it is a fiction of the car selling industry.

In other news, buying the right smellies at Christmas won't make you Keira Knightly/get you into Kiera Knightly's knickers ( delete as appropriate )

I wouldn't swap my van for all the turbo nutter guff I've had over the years.

So your 'need for speed' will only really be fed by the odd blast up the motorway slip road or shooting off from the lights or something like that.

the idea of the open road and open throttle is not something I have seen replicated in reality for some years

Happens in these parts often enough. Shame I'm usually driving a Land Rover, if anyone is doing any holding up of traffic it's me!

cranberry
Right up until 2 seconds later when you are stuck right behind the next road user.

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't get a fast car, or drive something nice, but the idea of the open road and open throttle is not something I have seen replicated in reality for some years - it is a fiction of the car selling industry.

Probably depends a lot on where you live combined with when you drive. Plenty of opportunities to enjoy a good car in Ireland and Scotland ime.

Oh, and a Forester is the only car I've had where my Jack Russell can look out of the back window without needing a ladder.

practicallity vs a bit of occassional speed.....

i tend to drive my van at a more sedate pace.. unless i'm having to cover a decent distance at night or someone else is paying for the diesel.

my experience is that, in the UK there are far too many people/cars on the road to make driving truely fun. that is unless your daily drive is through central Wales or the wilds of Scotland.... otherwise the rest of the UK is so crowded and there are already enough dickheads on the road that a more sedate, comfortable drive would be my choice....

saying that, the GF has a MX5 for blasting about when i want to...

Once you have had a van it is difficult to go back. I have a 3.0 viano and I love it in a 204 bhp auto leather and climate and removable seats kind of way

I went from a fast car to a van. I loved the car but I've been all over Europe in the van and I haven't been in a single recovery truck. Five years and counting.

I still love cars but I like to enjoy other peoples and go camping/biking whatever in comfort with none of the stress or cost. Just get a van that can keep up with traffic (or at least completely drop other vans!) and you won't get frustrated when out and about.

I really, really want an Impreza wagon but I know I'll just swap the Transporter for a bigger van and do a proper conversion.

Happens in these parts often enough. Shame I'm usually driving a Land Rover, if anyone is doing any holding up of traffic it's me!

I've over taken your landy on my e-bike I'm sure. Your deffo the one causing the hold up .

So.....lets get this right. You already own the Singletrack "best car ever" and you want to change? Are you nuts?

Speaking as a van owner though......van, you'll never regret it!

I'm not of the belief that I'll be on an open road in the fast car. Ive longed for the sounds of a boxer and blow off! I could even overtake people when I wanted.

The thought of the practicality of the van, and the very real fact that there aren't any open roads.

Ive longed for the sounds of a boxer and blow off

drill a hole in the exhaust...

Fast van every time, as an ex 220bhp t5 owner, practicality and progress...

porter_jamie - Member

Once you have had a van it is difficult to go back.

I've never liked vans. Beyond their purely utilitarian appeal that is.

alpin - Member
Ive longed for the sounds of a boxer and blow off
drill a hole in the exhaust...

Oooohhhh so not the same!

I agree with much that's said about vans, and I love the idea, until I go somewhere like Bath in my Octavia and find that all the empty free parking spaces are too small to get the Octy into, let alone a bloody van!

Does bath not have a park and ride ?

I've done vans and I've done fast. I'll always do fast again.

A fast car is, most of the time, a car. When you want it to be it's involving and engaging and makes driving a pleasure, with the added bonus of being well insulated from road noise and comfortable.

A van is a van. All the time. Which when you don't need the large space in the back (most of the time) is annoying - they're less fuel efficient, less comfortable, noisier and while you can occasionally sleep in them they're no better than a tent without spending loads of money. And they aren't that nice to drive.

As an added bonus, a Subaru Legacy has a Euro NCAP rating of 5 stars with 80% for occupants. My current work van, a 2016 Peugeot Expert, is only 3 stars with 59% for occupants. All the normal size vans apart from the Transit Custom and VW Transporter are 3 stars or less.

trail_rat - Member
Does bath not have a park and ride ?

POSTED 17 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

you need a supergramps..... [url=

subaru[/url]

How much disposable income have you got? Fast cars cost a lot to run, so as long as you factor that in, then go for it.

Van is far more practical and utilitarian...but not as fast.

Always regretted letting my Foz go in PX when I got the current Subaru. Not a fast version, but such a handy and capable car.

To enjoy a fast car these days you need to get up at silly o'clock in the morning, and then find a nice road without a speed camera on it or cyclists.

Unfortunately the days of being able to drive fast and safely on the roads are disappearing.

Oh and buy a van and an MX5 if you want a decent sports car that is fun on the road

we have a fancy merc and a pug partner. im non plussed about the car but absolutely love me van!

Had both in various guises - when I have a van I want a car, when I have a car I want a van. Neither are quite right all of the time.

We've had our van (140bhp T6) for 3 months all I can say is we wish we'd done it years ago. I just don't get the point of fast cars. On the economy point, the T6 touches 50mpg most of the time. That's a lot better than the 1.4l A3 it replaced.

Munrobiker.

You understand how the ncap ratings work they are progressive through time. 5 stars in 2002 isn't the same as 5 stars now. - three stars are what you get these days if you don't have lane assist and auto sensing brakes.

So you'll find ESP if it's an older more affordable legacy it has a similar safety standard to your works van- yer works van may even be better.

The system was reworked in 2009.

I love our T5, the whole family does.

However, I am only happy with it now having scratched the performance itch before (best was a scooby doo WRX PPP i owned in the mid 2000s).

I think you should get an Impreza wagon, enjoy it, rent a van when you need it, then after you realize that the Impreza is a huge joy, but ultimately a bit pointless, then buy yourself something else without loosing much value on a second hand scooby.

I own an MX5 and a bike rack that goes on the back and a City Car Club van-only subscription where I can rent vans hourly. Or I rent one for a weekend off the standard rental folks

I wouldn't swap my van for all the turbo nutter guff I've had over the years.

Same here, if I didn't need a car for work, I would get rid of it.

Single, no kids and no plans to change that.

I loved my 330d m-sport!
Now I have a sprinter 413 camper and a SV650.

Fast cars aren't about arriving quicker, for me they're about enjoying the drive. Going the long way just for the fun of it. Having the power to overtake out of a corner etc

Vans are practical, and useful, and I really want one!

Unfortunately the roads are now so busy that making progress is challenging, it really does depend on where you live. If you can get onto a good A or B road then a fast car makes you grin. It's not the speed, it's the fun and the sound

I'm down to one car, for family of 4 with 2 big dogs. I tried to convince my wife that a T5 Kombi would work but she doesn't like vans (have I said I do yet?) so we ended up with an E class estate. Not a fast one I should add. To be honest if it was a fast one I doubt i'd be able to use it properly on the runs that we do, but every now and then, on the right road, it would be absolutely mint!

I plug the gap by having a fast motorbike. This is completely impractical given my family situation, but it's faster than any car I'm going to have (in the real world) and being a motorbike means you can pretty much always make progress.

If you're going to get a fast car, and scratch that itch, I'd say get the fast car. Speed limits, traffic, emissions, petrol prices etc are only heading in one direction. You can get a van at any point, it's only a big empty box on wheels 😀

How much disposable income have you got? Fast cars cost a lot to run, so as long as you factor that in, then go for it.

Vans are hardly cheap to run.

Vans are hardly cheap to run.

About the same as a 2 litre saloon.

I have a fast car and a big practical estate (which in itself is far faster than a van I imagine). The Fast car is so much fun to drive. It does get you from a-b quicker in certain circumstances (ie twisty b roads with caravans and lorrys on them doing 40 miles per hr) however for me the point of it is that its more of a toy. Nothing beats the sound of a big non turbo engine been given the full beans.

Don't see the appeal of a van in the slightest. I got 6 bies in my estate going down to the alps las year plus all kit. Sure I couldn't sleep in it, but why on earth would you want to sleep in a van when a B&B can be had for 20 quid. Or buy a tent..Maybe I like the idea of a shower more than some however.

LOL all you 'fast car' guys need to ride a 190bhp Ducati Panigale. When you can't even focus quickly enough to work out what the hell is happening, then you know 'fast'

About the same as a 2 litre saloon.

What, like a Skoda Octavia?

vans are hardly cheap to run.[/quotes]
What's so expensive about vans as a general expense ?

 

[quote=trail_rat ]
What's so expensive about vans as a general expense ?

run two vehicles in my house:
T5 2.5 TDi vs A3 1.9 Tdi Quattro

Van insurance ~ double my car
fuel ~ 40% worse than my car

Aye ok I'll give you that those vw vans are buy/expensive to run.

Tis the price of cool.

Other much less expensive to run vans are availible

van insurance is more expensive than car insurance
van fuel consumption is worse than car fuel consumption.

nothing to do with it being a VW.

Lots of people missing the point of a fast car ! It's because it's [i]fun[/i], and you don't have to drive at 200mph to have fun.

Also lots of van-lovers somehow oblivious to the fact vans are a bit rubbish to drive.

So I've got one of each - a fast car, a normal car, and a van. I do too many miles commuting, the fast car would be a waste and expensive, the van would just be tedious. The fast car is fun when I do drive it, and the van is useful when I need it. The normal car is perfectly suited to its use.

To the OP - buy the Subaru. If you've always wanted one you need to scratch the itch.

My previous van was 160 quid a year to insure and did 40mpg

My current van is 188 a year to insure and does 25ish mpg. But equally weighs 2.3 tonnes empty I'd imagine a car weighing 2.3 tonnes and having aerodynamics of brick would do the same

My wife's car is 350 to insure. It has the same engine as van 1.

Compared to the car the OP is suggesting I don't think those costs are unreasonable. A fast subaru will do about 25mpg and won't be cheap to insure either.

Mean while service intervals are longer.

Another thing is van speed limits are restricted by stupid UK law.
Now if it's been converted to a motorhome & registered as such by the DVLA you get cheap insurance and higher speed limits.
I used to have a folding camper, as a family holiday home with bikes and stuff it was cool, but you couldn't just go where the hell you wanted, at the drop of a hat.
But if you just want a van then and don't want to do the whole camping lifestyle, then just get a fast estate.
But for me a fast car was nice, fast, but not really raw enough. I enjoy bikes too much, and the outdoors lifestyle. And there is no way I want 300 tank range like a suburu would have when used. (I reckon)

Also remember that if you have a nice looking car you'll want to protect it from bike handlebars and so on. A low car is a pain to get into rough areas (you have to be careful).

Here's mine https://goo.gl/photos/ZwB2o6TFbn5tBaEX6

run two vehicles in my house:
T5 2.5 TDi vs A3 1.9 Tdi Quattro

Van insurance ~ double my car
fuel ~ 40% worse than my car

Similar here.

Clichéd 2.0 Octy vRS
2.5 Mazda Bongo

And that's with the van being registered as a motorhome.

I admit the Octy isn't a [i]fast[/i] car, but it's reasonably quick and does what I want it to do (comfortable and cheap motorway munching while having enough torque/horses to get round slower traffic when there's opportunities on windy roads).

Both are fun to drive in their own way, but for getting from A to B on windy roads with any urgency, the Skoda is the tool of choice.

I had performance cars (Clio Williams, 172, 197, S3, Golf GTi, Fiat Coupe 20V Turbos etc etc) for years and years - topping out with a 370hp supercharged Golf R32.

As much as anything else, I think your family and day-to-day practicalities dictate whether or not performance cars work out for you.

For me, there was no point driving around in a deliciously tempting V6 Golf...that I could seldom use to its potential due to almost exclusively having wife and 2 kids on board. (I cycle to work).

As a result, we now have a T5-based campervan and a Mini.

The T5 is our main vehicle and the one I drive most often. It's a de-tuned 84hp version, which I thought would be terrible - but is actually just fine and I've yet to bother with a remap. The 122hp Mini is perfect for use around town and occasional work trips.

Everyone in the family (including me) loves this setup - both vehicles are just so damn well-suited to our needs at the moment.

As a result, we now have a T5-based campervan and a Mini.

TBH that sounds like a good set-up. We're in a similar family situation and I'd be very happy with that.

At risk of turning into a piston heads conversation this!

real car choice options :

if FWD and 4 cylinders ? may as well get a new van like a transit custom for example.
if RWD or AWD and > 4 cylinders or turbo what have you : Get a fast car for a bit.

I cycle to work though.

I do think we need more car stats! 'Fast' car is often about power. 'Fun' car might be a better description, something that makes you smile each mile. Sometimes that's power, sometimes noise/experience/handling etc

If I had an E63 rather than the E200 I actually have I'd definitely smile more. I wouldn't get anywhere faster but it would be more fun. The reason I didn't is because my wife drives it more than I do, and the insurance/tax/servicing is too high. Mileage is low so wouldn't worry much about MPG. A van would not make me smile more, and in reality would be less nice to drive, and have fewer creature comforts. It might be more practical in certain situations, but in most a car wins

Fast car vs van is a heart vs head thing I think

Get a motorbike licence, then you have power at a good price and the ability to make progress with it

I do think we need more car stats!

😆

I drove a citroen relay 2.2 for a bit. It was the 6 metre lwb one, new as it was a hire one.
It reminded me of my old mondeo st tdci estate more then my BMW 330d manual. My BMW was great, it was fast and the handling was really fantastic I thought, and it would do 40mpg everywhere. But at the end of the day these cars are meant for exec fat cats. In was not the buzz of say an escort mk1 or a modified (real) mini 1400.

The Sprinter van is a laugh because you can see everything from it's lofty seat. It is not really fast with only 130bhp and 'lacks poise' in the twisties. It is RWD and has ESP. But it is fun because I don't give a sh1t about the paintwork really I don't! So I can have fun driving it like a van driver when some idiot is speeding in town, watch them dive for the kerb! I don't give way to much, apart from other bikers or nice drivers of course.

Had a similar itch as you, but between a sensible car or a fast car. My last three cars had been large German diesel estates, and after we got the missus a chelsea tractor, i was 'allowed' something different.

I had never had a 'fast/knob head/chav' car growing up, so really wanted a GTI/S3/Type R type of car - to get it out of my system like many have said before. I have a 25 mile commute which is a mixture of dual carriage way and twisty roads.

Weighed it all up, and decided to go for an 2008 Golf R32! Didn't cost a lot to buy (in the grand scheme of things), Golf practicality - so can get the kids in the back fine/ bikes in the back with the seats down/reliable/middle of the road servicing costs. Buying an older model meant that i wouldn't lose a fortune if it turned out that a fast car wasn't quite for me.

Yes it will be expensive to run (i have a fuel car which helps), but my God, when you press the noise pedal and that V6 fires up - brilliant. Overtaking a breeze, handles like its on rails, ok round town and just bumbling around, and most importantly, makes driving a bit more fun again.

If its something you've always wanted, just do it. That was my mentality - i have no doubt however that the novelty will wear off, but i've got it out my system. You can always change it again if you get bored or realise that you do need a van.

just ditched the van for a golf gti. cost to change the insurance over from the expert to the golf was £13.20, retaining NCB ( direct line FWIW ). i was a bit sniffy about it at first, having had a fruity car in the past, but this thing is astonishing. and i can fit bikes and dogs in the back. and it's quiet. and loud. and comfortable. and handles. and it has loads of whistles and bells ( a blessing now, potentially a curse later 😀 ).
to get in to a similar age/mileage t5 would have cost me +20%. and it wouldn't be anything like as safe or as comfortable. fun in a different way, sure, and i know the first time i stick a wheel barrow and a muddy dog in the back i'm going to wince a bit, but i can always change again.
always wanted a gti, and always wanted one more than i wanted a camper, so i got a golf.
get what you want. shrouds don't have pockets, and you can always find something else to want later. 😉

So the OP wants a fast car and the last two posters suggest a golf?

😀 (I love golfs! Mk2 GTi 16v is one of my favourite car ever, in oak green please)

i wasn't suggesting anything other than 'buy what you want'!

I had a mk1 1.8 gti and thought it was a bit sensible and boring....

Bought a t5 van a couple of years ago - just (last week) got rid of the merc estate as there was no need for it
and ought a Mk5 Golf Gti - wanted one for ages, having had mk1, mk2 16v and vr6 in the past

No way would I put that much stuff in to the Golf - the van swallows a family of 5, two dogs and 5 bikes.
Get a toy, but the van let's you do loads of good family type stuff - and can be quick...

Vans rock! Broaden your horizons, beat the rat race....

The Vito 3.0l has the OM642 engine found in some of the big saloons and comfortably will map to around 250BHP and over 500lb of torque. Good for 0-60 in around 8 seconds.

weeksy - Member

LOL all you 'fast car' guys need to ride a 190bhp Ducati Panigale. When you can't even focus quickly enough to work out what the hell is happening, then you know 'fast'

😆
All you "fast bike" guys need to ride slammin' Sammy Miller's Vanishing Point. When you can't even maintain consciousness due to the acceleration, [i]then[/i] you know fast.
🙄

Van or fast?
Fast van!
[IMG] [/IMG]

A fast car is a great thing to have, but opportunities to use the performance will be few and far between - roads are generally full of slower cars being driven slowly, and there's only a small region of traffic levels where the additional passing ability will get you anywhere.

I had a warm car, it was nice, it was fun, but it couldn't really handle being driven hard (brakes weren't up to it so I got through a lot of discs - this is probably less of a problem these days), and if I wanted to really get a good run in it I'd have to go out in the middle of the night (11pm to 5am) or go somewhere very remote.

As others have said, you won't generally get there much quicker (at least not without taking big risks with your life and your license). So I'd say it depends. Get an older Subaru, it shouldn't depreciate too much if you buy carefully and look after it, sell it on and get a van if/when when you start getting bored or finding running costs a bit much.

edit - that fast van might not have as big a load area as you'd hope.