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My son’s been contacted to ask if he wishes to sign up for an advanced apprenticeship in the submariner part of the navy. He was hoping for a similar role in the air arm.
Is there anyone willing to give him a frank description of what it’s like? I have absolutely no knowledge of what he’d be letting himself in for......
He has to reply by the end of the day, so if you’re willing, perhaps a telephone call might work best.
Thanks so much, BOAS
Can’t help but keen with anticipation that STW will smash it.
Tell him to watch Das Boot, that will give him an idea.
Might as well start him with the basics - how does he feel about being stuck with 100+ others in a tin can for 3 months at a time?
He'll be in the right place to survive a nuclear war!
how does he or you feel about dying. If you go into the forces this could happen.
This is purely anecdotal; I've no direct experience of my own, so please consider this alongside more informed perspectives.
However, two former colleagues of mine had a lot of experience working with submariners and their families on the Faslane base. One was directly employed in a military role. One was a Children and Families social worker in the relevant local authority. Both described high rates of alcoholism and domestic violence amongst submariners.
Watch out for the coffin dreams.
I used to work with a lady whose husband was an XO on HMS Repulse.
When he came home from sea, he stank so badly that she made him strip bare in the garden and turned a hose on him before she would let him in the house.
Fresh water is apparently at a premium in the sealed environment of a submarine. Personal hygeine standards are set pretty low due to water rationing.
As is personal space..... Bunks are shared by three men on a rotating 8 hour shift pattern. When one exits the bunk, the next guy is in while it's still warm.
how does he or you feel about dying. If you go into the forces this could happen.
See also;
Crossing a road
Driving, or being a passenger in, a car
Riding a bike
Landyachting
Golf
Oh, and just simply existing. Death happens there as well.
OP, I know someone with a job that sees them spend a lot of time in subs, not a submariner per se however. Will see if I can track him down* and point him your way.
* Easier said than done sometimes...
He’ll be in the right place to survive a nuclear war!
Or to help start one
I've worked with former Submariners and its a complete commitment. Worst case is a three month cruise in a 'Bomber' not surfacing and extremely limited comms with home. If the Careers Office have to have an answer by the end of the day its not going to let him make an informed decision. If he has his heart set on the FAA the Submarine Service is very different. Don't let the CIO railroad him by offering a different branch with instant entry when with a bit of time and patience he can do what he wants to do.
I should add that I think people in the forces do a great job protecting us all and admire them. It's just the adverts on tv do not show war.
If they need an answer now, then the answer is no.
IMO
I know a gentleman who is currently serving in the silent service. Drop me a PM and we can organise putting you in touch.
perchypanther
Member
I used to work with a lady whose husband was an XO on HMS Repulse.
When he came home from sea, he stank so badly that she made him strip bare in the garden and turned a hose on him before she would let him in the house.
Fresh water is apparently at a premium in the sealed environment of a submarine. Personal hygeine standards are set pretty low due to water rationing.
As is personal space….. Bunks are shared by three men on a rotating 8 hour shift pattern. When one exits the bunk, the next guy is in while it’s still warm.
Both Vanguard and Astute classes no longer require hot bunking. He'd be hoping to avoid the remaining Trafalgars for many more reasons anyway
I don't believe the hygiene thing is quite as bad now either, but still a tad stinky
No experience with submariners but father in law was FAA CPO and fixed helicopters for his whole navy career then left to run sims for westlands or somebody. He loved it and would recommend that bit of RN, not sure I would recommend someone to take on such a big commitment in something they know so little about.
When he came home from sea,
he stank so badlyhe was so sex deprived that she made him strip bare in the garden and turned a hose on him before she would let him in the house.
Fixed it for you
good answer beaker - a rushed decision isn't the way to go, I bet if he doesn't get into FAA then there will be the option of subs available another day.
Friend of mine was a navigator on a sub - great guy, completely normal. BUT the stories of the stuff they got up to were pretty disgusting!
If your son wants to do the same in the AA does he want to fly or just fancies the AA more?
(personally if it was my son I'd be suggesting he hang on and try for what he really wants - the AA and subs are really quite different)
Perhaps he’s been mulling it for a while, but if not it strikes me as pretty bad form to expect an answer about something like this at short notice.
Morning,
I did 6 years in the navy although on surface fleet side. Personally if its not what he wants to do then I would say no. I know people that were submariners and loved it but it is a completely different way of life even compared with surface ratings. I couldn't ever imagine being under water for the time they go with minimal access to the outside world. Depending on size of submarine then I believe they still 'hot bunk'. So basically sharing a pit with the opposite number of your shift. I think they are constant 12hrs on 12 hours off etc.
If he his heart is fleet air arm then stick with it. They are probably only trying to shoe horn him into Submariner due to gaps in manning. I had same call, I want to be an Artificer but was told no entry for a year or two 'but you can do this instead and join next month. I joined the next month :-).
See also;
Crossing a road
Driving, or being a passenger in, a car
Riding a bike
Landyachting
Golf
Oh, and just simply existing. Death happens there as well.
+1.
I work in construction in the water industry, at least half of which is in sewage treatment and I consider that a dream job compared to being shut in a metal tin under the sea. Must take a special type, speaking of which we have a number of ex-forces on the company and of them the three submariners are three of the most awkward people to work with I've ever come across, so stubborn and bloody minded it's untrue. Could just be a coincidence though I guess.
As others have pointed out, not a decision to be rushed- I wouldn't trust an employer who uses that kind of pressure. But I suppose they've stopped the actual press-ganging.
This is a guy I went to school with, his CV is frankly ridiculous 🙂
I doubt he remembers me, but you could try dropping him an email and mention my name (Jason Wood) or my brother (Gavin Wood) from Crossley's in Halifax.
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/alan-daveney
I have worked with three submariners.
They were all a bit crazy especially after a drink.
One of them assaulted another for letting him down for a lift home.
They knew what they were on about and definitely enriched my apprenticeship.
🙂
how does he or you feel about dying. If you go into the forces this could happen.
According to this: “Overall, in 2018, the UK Regular Armed Forces were at a statistically significant lower risk of dying compared to the UK general population.” (but I guess they would say that!).
However, I’d be worried about ethical implications (e.g. killing other people), adjusting to life after the forces, impact on relationships, long-term mental and physical health...
Could just be a coincidence though I guess.
It is, plenty ex-Submariners here (and I used to work in Faslane as a civvie) and they're normal(ish)
According to this: “Overall, in 2018, the UK Regular Armed Forces were at a statistically significant lower risk of dying compared to the UK general population.” (but I guess they would say that!).
They did pick a period of peacetime for that statistical comparison. The full report concedes that the mortality rates (well, for the army at least) were a tad higher than the national average during the Helmand campaign (unsurprising, really!)
Suggests that you get a higher proportion of fit and healthy adults in the forces than in the general population, though. 🙂
No experience of submarines (other than a boat visit in training) however I did 22yrs in the FAA, if he’s set on joining then the Senior Service is the way to go, and the FAA the best of the branches (I may be biased)
But a word of caution, it is called Service for a reason, he may serve wherever the need arises, for however long it’s required at any time. If he’s single then it’s a fine life, relatively good job security if he remains within the agreed restrictions (and for ‘modern’ youngsters they will be classed as restrictions) and the life rewards can be amazing, friends for life and endless tales of things few will see.
Engineering is engineering, if he’s set on aircraft then the FAA is niche, but he will have civilian equivalents and he will see the world. Submariners have extra pay because of the conditions, the money is good and the conditions are not that arduous BUT he will not see the world or just be able to get a view of the horizon and a breath of fresh air whenever he wants.
If it was me I would wait for the FAA (....and undoubtedly the recruiter will be trying to fill a undersubscribed entry, undersubscribed for a reason)
Good luck to him whatever he’s decides.
I managed 24 years with 5 deployments including iraq and Afghanistan outside the wire and didn't die.
Such a miserable and cynical point to pick.
I'd push back and wait for the FAA, aviation is far better with greater opportunities to see the world and for future employment.
My son was offered a great deal by the Navy to go on the subs, including paying for his degree, straight after his A levels.
He was dissuaded quite robustly by a couple of serving submariners whilst on his first week who said that he was too young for it and he should give it a few years then come back if he still wanted it.
He's now a paramedic in training and loving it.
Your son can accept at this stage and explore whether it's what he really wants to do.
My advice would be to accept and then he can spend more time thinking about it; Zach had months of hoops to jump through before it got to that sign on the dotted line moment.
Worst case scenario is a year out which your son might need support with; my lad was convinced that he'd be totally left behind with the year out. Us a bit older know a year is **** all.
"I’d push back and wait for the FAA, aviation is far better with greater opportunities to see the world and for future employment. "
^^ this ^^
One day to apply?
Presumably there will be some kind of finding-out and decision-making period post application?
One day to decide to go on subs?
One day to apply?
Presumably there will be some kind of finding-out and decision-making period post application?
One day to decide to go on subs?
They were really pushy with my lad to get his answer in much the same way - I suspect it puts a tick in a box and a cross in others.
My brother was on the subs for (I think 11 years) out of Faslane. Many antics, drunkeness, coffins dreams, and harsh conditions, but obviously made some great mates for life. He did say if you're on the subs you either become an alcoholic or fitness addict.He had some great experiences despite extended lengths of time under the sea with no idea where he was.
He was a mechanic so got his own bunk rather than hot bunking as mechanics are so fifthly and sweaty from the job. As mentioned hygiene options are very limited.
When he left it would seem they were really good at setting up with additional training for work outside the forces, but the reason he left was that as a mechanic he was in high demand and they wouldn't let him move on to other areas within the forces; he wanted to go for special forces.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0008313059/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_-xn-DbM2N1Y8Q
Skimmed through this in Waterstones the other day, might be worth a read?
Fresh water is apparently at a premium in the sealed environment of a submarine.
Must be incredibly frustrating considering there's a nuclear reactor which could run a desalination plant without difficulty.
Another option is perhaps getting and apprenticeship with BAE systems (if that’s what they’re still called) or Qinetiq etc
Fresh water is apparently at a premium in the sealed environment of a submarine.
Russian Typhoon subs had a swimming pool. Pesky Reds!
Thinking longer term the transferable skills from aviation would be better than from a sub. But he might be the best plumber when the chips are down.
Russian Typhoon subs had a swimming pool. Pesky Reds!
Seriously? That would be very impressive!
Pool is stretching it but still impressive!
Wow! Thanks so much for the responses everyone.
My son’s been reading these as well as doing a bit of research. He’s decided not to go for it this time - the advice about being too young hit home and the bit about having less than 24 hours to make a decision that may commit him to something for so long was something I’d already pointed out, but hearing it from someone else as well made him think twice.
As always, STW is a font of all things. Many thanks 🙂
Ben / Blob On A Stick
Get him to seriously consider getting into Aviation Engineering, real shortage of them, well paid, lots of good training, very transferable, More options when you come out, work on / play with big boys toys.