Forum menu
interesting stuff from ukraine from around 19:50...from a Ukrainian Colonel with reference to the Russian calling up t55 and t64. They are using them as "assault guns" and they are very effective.
On minefields and mine clearance:
The US announced a longer-term Assistance Initiative package for Ukraine a few days ago; $1.3bn to include more mine clearing equipment. It's rumoured that a further package including mine clearing equipment will be announced in the next couple of days. The logical reason for two packages so close together is that the second will be Drawdown, which is from current US stock https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3463890/biden-administration-announces-additional-security-assistance-for-ukraine/
Russia's attacks on Odessa, destroying grain stocks, are pretty unequivocal in saying that the grain deal is off.
By declaring incoming civilian shipping as assumed to be carrying military cargo, attacking Odessa and connected areas and further mine-laying, Russia has effectively stopped the Black Sea route because insurers won't cover shipping in the area. The attacks on Odessa are considered humanitarian crimes
They've increased the possibility of arguments within the EU because grain would have to be "imported" from Ukraine by road and rail to gain access to those countries deemed in greatest need by the UN. EU farmers have previously protested about similar imports
Ukraine responded by threatening all Russian shipping in Russian and occupied ports, saying that the sinking of the Moskva proves their capability https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/20/russia-may-attack-civilian-ships-in-black-sea-and-blame-ukraine-us-warns
Russia has come under increasing pressure at the UN, including from China, to restore the deal https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/07/1138982
The Russian Ambassador to the US said that Russia wasn't threatening shipping and that it was all a US smear https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-07-20-23?tab=Grain%20Deal
Ukraine is continuing to stretch Russian logistics by attacking Crimea yesterday, "A drone attack on an ammunition depot in Crimea has prompted authorities to evacuate everyone within a 3-mile (5km) radius and briefly suspend road traffic on the bridge linking the peninsula to Russia, the Moscow-installed regional governor has said." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/22/ukrainian-drone-strike-crimea-ammunition-depot
China is by far the largest importer of Ukrainian grain, Spain the second largest. 3rd world countries come way down the list. So I imagine Russia has pissed off its best mate yet again.
Interesting article on The Atlantic.
Any way of reading it without subscribing?
Any way of reading it without subscribing?
I have a subscription, but I thought they let you read 3 articles per month or something without paying. You try logging in with a throw-away email address to see.
This thread has definitely quietened down - still loads going on. If like me, you are finding not much useful on twitter any longer ISW has a great daily update.
This appears to be a new way for the FSB to bump people off:
The head of one of the largest suppliers of surveillance equipment to Russian special services died on July 22. Russian law enforcement found “IKS Holding” Head Anton Cherepennikov dead in his office on July 22 and later claimed that Cherepennikov suffocated during a xenon gas therapy session.[32] IKS Holding owns the developer of the YADRO data storage system, which Russian authorities reportedly use in efforts to monitor Russian internet users, and the Citadel Group, which produces operational-search measures that Russian special services use to listen to phone calls and monitor internet activities
Thanks for the heads up on ISW. Twitter is a really struggle, its changed so much and is almost useless for the things I want to follow and useless for the things pushed at me....
Threads may be an option but it's not in Europe yet.
yes I started going there just to look at the maps of the territorial changes, but now use it as main source of whats going on in ukraine. I'd say its pro ukraine, but more balanced than most news sites, and has a lot more detial than what you see on the bbc / guardian etc...
Is pretty interesting too, seems to be an agglomerator of tweets/telegrams/news reports of what's going on.
Is it me or has it gone all quiet on the dam issue?
Is it me or has it gone all quiet on the dam issue?
There's a recent update following the destruction: 31 civilians died (early estimates were 10x that, so non-civilians??) with the loss of housing, water, crops and hydro-electric power. Various linked articles with the original article https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/07/20/31-civilians-died-following-russias-destruction-of-the-kakhovka-dam/
Reports from a couple of weeks ago suggest that the former reservoir can be crossed in a light 4x4, which gives Russia additional frontline to defend, particularly as their underwater mines are now either visible or washed away
The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has spotted directional anti-personnel mines on the perimeter of the Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant.
For non-technical people (like myself) they say "But having such explosives on the site is inconsistent with the IAEA safety standards and nuclear security guidance". Really? Who knew?
Joking aside, it isn't considered a nuclear risk, however the IAEA has consistently been refused access throughout July to some areas, including roof areas where unidentified objects have been spotted from the air https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/pressreleases/update-175-iaea-director-general-statement-on-situation-in-ukraine
I heard that one of the reactors has been reactivated- ?
What could possibly go wrong?
It's almost like they are setting up for a civil war.
Might it be the one way that Poo-tin can save face by suddenly needing troops to be back home?
Sounds like it'll end up with a bunch of barons warring with each other. Absolutely bonkers that Putin could think allowing different regions to create their own PMC's.
Apparently China is heavily arming Russia now. Not too sure how credible it is or the extent of it.
tagnut69
Free MemberIs it me or has it gone all quiet on the dam issue?
Rolling news innit, it was only important for a day or two and now it's old.
Apparently China is heavily arming Russia now. Not too sure how credible it is or the extent of it.
It's dual-use technology, e.g. drones, body armour, materials and components. Chinese-marked weapons would be obvious within a short time. China has imported Russian arms and I'd expect (but don't know) Chinese language markings on these https://www.politico.eu/article/china-firms-russia-body-armor-bullet-proof-drones-thermal-optics-army-equipment-shanghai-h-win/
The bigger arms concern is weapons imports from Syria and Iran using ships such as the MV Sparta IV and her sisters and co-operation between Iran and Russia, which has been growing since April '22
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/politics/us-russia-iran-drones/index.html
I've read they are saying china is supplying the electronics for drones to Iran, so Iran can supply russia.
Why can't the boats supplying the drones be detained? Especially if Iran is claiming they aren't supplying drones. So presumably the cargo on the ships is declared as something else rather than 'arms for russia'.
Something doesn't sit well with me when the Ruskis block bulk grain transport ships from moving thousands of tons of grain into Africa. Then use their own fleet auxiliary shils to flow weapons in the other direction.
I know its war, so the gloves are off, and the RA Is massively out of its depth but even so.
Apparently our Storm shadow missiles are being used to good effect hitting logistics centers way behind the lines, if they could simk a few ships too that might bring the end pf hostiles closer.
Turkey seems to be turning a blind eye to the military supplies on civilian ships as well. I suppose one good thing is less russian kit in syria killing syrians. Not much comfort to ukraine though
And I thought russia was supposed to be running out of those missles!?! Surely they are down to how many they can build, and the factory(s) that build them must be a legit target, if within range
you wouldn't want to be a civilian in this village :/
There seems to be a few reports of Ukrainian's making progress on TwiX or whatever musk now calls it.
I'm not linking in case they're not correct.
But it does seem a thing.
I've been keeping quiet about similar reports as there have been so many false dawns.
When and if it happens it'll happen very quickly. Neither side has any interest in indicating where or when this will happen.
It still looks like Ukriane are keeping significant strategic reserves ready to pile into any major breach.
Several reports about a southern concentration of effort and calling up reserves to reinforce it.
Oh boy, seeing more reports of significant progress around Robotyne rumours that Ukrainains have breached the initial lines and are now assaulting the secondary lines.
If they break through there then Tokmak and the only rail link to Russia is right... there....
The Russians know this and it was one of the most densely fortified parts of the entire front, I can only imagine how bad the fighting must be if they're trying to breach there.
Please let this be it.
Quite a few recent Radio4 articles I've heard re Ukraine have been sounding negative regarding the amount of mines/defenses RA have managed to create and that Ukraine was struggling.
🤞
Mike Martin was going to post an update on Twitter (erm X) today but:
https://twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1684670142645428224
Being reported on BBC now.
Apparently China is heavily arming Russia now.
Saw via reddit that Russia is using kit from Myanmar.
Also NYT reporting that the Ukrainian offensive has started in earnest.
Lots of Western kit has taken a battering from the mines laid by Russia.
Lots of Western kit has taken a battering from the mines laid by Russia.
The breach itself was always going to be horrendous casualtywise, regardless of how s****y the kit they're use there.
If they manage a full breach however and the mobile reserves with all their new kit flood in through it into the russian backlimes then the boot will swiftly transfer onto the other foot.
Just rooting for all this blood and treasure to finally pay off.
Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations on at least three sectors of the front on July 27 and made gains in some areas, although Ukrainian forces appear not to have continued significant mechanized assaults south of Orikhiv in western Zaporizhia Oblast. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky posted footage on July 27 showing that Ukrainian forces liberated Staromayorske (9km south of Velyka Novosilka) in western Donetsk Oblast following heavy fighting in the area.[1] Geolocated footage published on July 26 indicates that Ukrainian forces also made marginal advances north of Klishchiivka (7km southwest of Bakhmut).[2] Geolocated footage published on July 26 suggests that Ukrainian forces made additional advances east of Robotyne (10km south of Orikhiv) during offensive operations on July 26.[3] Ukrainian Director of the Department of Application Planning at the Main Command of the National Guard Mykola Urshalovych stated on July 27 that Ukrainian forces achieved tactical victories in the Melitopol (western Zaporizhia Oblast) direction.[4] Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces continued assaults at a lower tempo and with far less manpower near Robotyne on July 27 after Ukrainian forces launched an intense mechanized frontal assault that broke through Russian defensive positions northeast of the settlement on July 26.[5] Geolocated footage published on July 27 suggests that Ukrainian forces may be operating in areas well forward of where ISW assesses Ukrainian advances to be as a result of ISW’s intentionally conservative assessments about control of terrain (covered in more detail in Southern Axis text).[6]
<<< from ISW.
Can only think there are a lot of NATO boffins trying to work out how to clear mines quickly and efficiently. Tanks with rollers can only take approx 4 hits before the rollers are toast I read. I thought this was what the cluster bombs were to be used for - trying to clear mines and trenches, but have not read any thing saying how effective they have been
If you look at ISW interactive map the level of concentration of russian defenses around Tokmak is huge - it looks to be the most heavily fortified area of the whole front line......
Can only think there are a lot of NATO boffins trying to work out how to clear mines quickly and efficiently. Tanks with rollers can only take approx 4 hits before the rollers are toast I read. I thought this was what the cluster bombs were to be used for – trying to clear mines and trenches, but have not read any thing saying how effective they have been.
That's absolutely not what cluster munitions are for and it would be a very inefficient and unreliable method of mine clearance. Mine clearing lines (hoses filled with plastic explosive) towed by a rocket, payed out in a line and straightened with a drogue at the rear then detonated to clear a path are what is mostly used on a modern battlefield. Russia and Ukraine have these systems (as do the UK and other NATO members). In my yoof, I used to work on an old system, long since superceded called 'giant viper'. They are extremely impressive bits of kit when used in anger.
I thought this was what the cluster bombs were to be used for – trying to clear mines and trenches, but have not read any thing saying how effective they have been
blokeuptheroad +1
You won't find that info, that isn't what they're for. Have a look back a week ago on page 417 and you'll see some additional info and a link to a photo of part of the Tokmak defences https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/ukraine-2/page/417/ I can't work out how to link to a specific post, sorry
Thanks, I missed that last time. Interesting to watch the vid of mine clearing - doesn't look like something you could really do whilst under heavy fire. Haven't seen any mention that they are using them in ukraine either?
Seems mines are a very effective and cheap way of tying up alot of troops and equipment. Seems crazy to be heading striaght into the most fortified area. Surely the whole front can't be mined ?!
If you look at ISW interactive map the level of concentration of russian defenses around Tokmak is huge
As hatter points out ^^ Tokmak is a major logistics hub that Russia will be desperate to hold and it's a step on the road to either Berdyans'k or Melitopol. The latter are essential for supplies to Crimea in the absence of the Kerch bridge, which Ukraine has knocked chunks out of on a couple of occasions
Tanks with rollers can only take approx 4 hits before the rollers are toast I read
Minefields are really difficult for an attacking force, which is why Russia has laid goodness knows how many. The mine clearance operation is slow for the reasons that you suggest and tends to concentrate the attacking force at the cleared lanes for artillery to barrage, adjusted by drones.
Ukraine in reply has decimated Russian logistics to limit that barrage and used MLRS to destroy the artillery, also spotted and adjusted by drones. The west has some serious thinking to do before spaffing billions on expensive next gen kit
Yup, if theyre going to Tokmak they must feel that they've worn down the defenders there enough over the last few months to attempt a breach.
It's a high risk move but if they do it there that's basically Russia's worst case scenario strategically.
Oooor they could be making a lot of noise somewhere Russia can't afford to ignore to make them rush reinforcements there whilst the prepare to hit elsewhere, Kherson/Kharkiv all over again.
I just hope they make it happen.
Ukraine has officially taken Staromaiorske, which is another step on the road https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66323354
Drones, GPS and guided/semi guided munitions (anti armour and anti personnel) has returned Artillery to the king of battle. Though I think the russians tend to prefer quantity over quality any kind of stalling in an advance is an open invitation have the shit kicked out of you :(.
Mine clearing lines (hoses filled with plastic explosive) towed by a rocket, payed out in a line and straightened with a drogue at the rear then detonated to clear a path are what is mostly used on a modern battlefield.
I thought the U.S. technique was to establish air superiority then carpet bomb the area with B52s. It seems to be a bit trickier without air superiority.