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Anyone still thinking "we wont supply modern NATO standard jets" also used to think we also wouldnt be supplying Challengers/Abrams/Archer/Ceaser/IRIS/Patriots etc etc and now cruise missiles?

That would certainly include me.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 8:57 am
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The logistics is what is holding back supplying modern jets.  The best would probably be the SAAB Grippen E, as it is designed for bad runways, distributed fighting off of roads etc.  Almost all other western jets would require huge logistics in a airfield which would be a massive target for Russia.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 9:06 am
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The US Air National Guard managed to operate from Ukraine in 2011 on less than perfect runways and didn't suffer from foreign object damage.

The airfields are already a massive target, I suspect that the Ukrainians are prioritising defending them and will be dispersed across multiple military and civilian airfields. That's what we used to do in the cold war, it's one of the reasons we had lots of airfields for a relatively small air force.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 10:19 am
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<p style="text-align: center;">Well that bridge is toast. That payload, delivered at near supersonic speed, will be catastrophic for poured concrete. Just slaming a lump of steel in at 600mph would probably be enough to destroy a support leg. I doubt if they're accurate enough without LTD to hit an upright, but punching into the deck above a stanchion should be achievable.</p>


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 10:31 am
JohnnyPanic and bruk reacted
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Ukraine are making gains to the south and north of Bhakmut, retaking territory. Russians running from their trenches. Hopefully the start of something.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 11:01 am
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The logistics is what is holding back supplying modern jets.

Which is something that keeps being said, then overcome (to varying degrees, e.g. they are getting Abrams albeit currently not many of them)


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 11:10 am
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Which is something that keeps being said, then overcome (to varying degrees, e.g. they are getting Abrams albeit currently not many of them)

Doesn't the US Army and Air Force use civilian contractors to perform the majority of their maintenance?

Anything them to stop them operating in Ukraine?


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 11:22 am
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I doubt if they’re accurate enough without LTD to hit an upright,

They're stunningly accurate - one of the marketing videos for them was a CNN reporter giving a live report from Baghdad during the 2003 conflict where they were being "tested". In the background was an explosion noise and then a few seconds later a second explosion. The first was one stormshadow making a hole in a bunker, the second was a second stormshadow which had been preprogramed to fly into the bunker through the just created hole and then explode.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 11:33 am
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Anything them to stop them operating in Ukraine?

$$$
Willingness of people to actually go (would you in all honesty have the balls to go work for the military in an actual warzone, Vs work in a Raytheon building in Kuwait thousands of miles from a frontline surrounded by the US Navy?)
Logistics (you've got to actually get all the spares and tooling to those people, and do it regularly)
The Optics of it, Russia isn't going to care that their kakis say Lockheed or Northrop rather than Army if they're parading them on TV or in-front of a firing squad. Less likely now than the early days of the war, but we saw what Russia did to any PoW perceived to be from western countries.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 12:18 pm
 DT78
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Ukraine are making gains to the south and north of Bhakmut, retaking territory. Russians running from their trenches. Hopefully the start of something.

source?  or just twitter chat?

See Russia is saying there have been no ukraine gains, so actually makes it more likely there have been


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 1:25 pm
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ISW and multiple YouTube sources.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 1:28 pm
 pk13
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Willingness of people to actually go (would you in all honesty have the balls to go work for the military in an actual warzone, Vs work in a Raytheon building in Kuwait thousands of miles from a frontline surrounded by the US Navy?)

They have done in every war/campaign the US military have fought since Vietnam.

 Business Week, in March 1965;  “war by contract.”  This was largely because standard military equipment was suddenly technologically advanced, while the average soldier had little technical training besides basic combat skills.  There was suddenly a serious need for civilian contractors with specialized skills to work side by side with the troops. Field maintenance crews with companies like General Electric or Johnson, Drake, and Piper dodged bullets at DaNang and Pleiku to maintain and repair field equipment and infrastructure for troops, who desperately needed them.  Instead of being kept safely behind military lines, civilian Contractors were in the same danger as the soldiers they were supporting. This was not the only reason that civilian contractors were active in the Vietnam Theater.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 1:34 pm
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<p style="box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 0.5rem; line-height: 1.5rem; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">source?  or just twitter chat?</p>

<span style="color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';">See Russia is saying there have been no ukraine gains, so actually makes it more likely there have been</span>BBC News - Ukraine claims gains in Bakhmut after Russia denials

It's all a bit he said - she said to be fair

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65567143


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 5:07 pm
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Russian denials, something you can bet your house on 🤷‍♂️🤣


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 5:25 pm
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Russia denied Ukrainian claims but said its troops had regrouped in one area.

What we really need to see is the Russian conscripts regrouping at home with their families.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 5:59 pm
piemonster reacted
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Aaaaannnnnd……….. Russia now admits its true 🙄


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 5:59 pm
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The Ukrainian's certainly know how to troll and worry Russian military at the same time...
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1656987668717223938?t=uLbkdmd8cP23ndpE_99txA&s=19


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 7:06 pm
hot_fiat reacted
 DT78
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is there any info on how many shadow storms ukraine is getting? I can't imagine it's huge numbers so if and when they use them they will need to be confident they won't be shot down


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 7:57 pm
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I do believe between the UK and France quite a lot exist and they are not far off being retired.

Having said that, id also add "so I read on Twitter"


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 8:41 pm
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is there any info on how many shadow storms ukraine is getting?

I haven't seen any reports on numbers, but I haven't looked too hard either. Supply will continue/top UK supplies up via the UK-administered IFU, which has requested tenders for:
Missiles or Rockets with a range 100-300km; land, sea or air launch. Payload 20-490kg.
Desirable requirements:
Low Probability of Intercept (LPI)
Includes Mission Planning Capability
Assured navigation (with hardened Global Navigation Satellite System capability) in the face of advanced countermeasures and EM spectrum denial
Air defence penetration methods to increase probability of successful strike
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/international-fund-for-ukraine-ifu


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 8:46 pm
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I do believe between the UK and France quite a lot exist

I think I'm right in saying that although developed jointly, the capabilities of the two are very different but no less usable


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 8:49 pm
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Did read somewhere that UK have about 1000 most of them are coming to end of life soon.

Seems that some may have been used  already

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1657061700007526401


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 9:04 pm
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I think I’m right in saying that although developed jointly, the capabilities of the two are very different but no less usable

Yes, the Storm Shadow is air-launched, the French missile is marine, either ship launched or via submarine torpedo tubes. If I recall correctly. There’s suggestions that the intention is to drive Russias front back as far as possible to enable Ukrainian aircraft to get as close as possible to  the big bridge leading to Crimea to allow a targeted attack on the main structures of the bridge, thus cutting Crimea off completely from Russia.

The thing with Storm Shadow is it’s a big, heavy cruise missile with a turbojet, not a rocket, which means Ukrainian aircraft are limited as to what can carry it. I believe it’s the Flanker, basically a medium jet bomber that can carry it, which is why they’re being careful about how and where the missiles are used - the Flanker ain’t no dogfighting bird!

I’ve got an article about the system, I’ll see if I can find it in a minute, it’s a lot more detailed.

Found these, but I can’t find the one with the aircraft info.

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/16837

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2023-05-08/britain-long-range-missiles-ukraine-10055604.html


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 9:10 pm
hot_fiat reacted
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Along with British personnel to help with targeting the missiles.
So boots on the ground then.? Figuratively speaking.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 10:12 pm
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All points toward an escalation.


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 10:17 pm
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All points toward an escalation

Stimulus? As with Challenger 2


 
Posted : 12/05/2023 10:25 pm
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All points toward an escalation

yawn


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 9:50 am
FuzzyWuzzy, piemonster, d42dom and 1 people reacted
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I don’t see how Russia has the military hardware and resources to escalate, with the exception of nuclear, which I personally don’t believe they will use unless NATO are on the doorsteps of the Kremlin.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 11:49 am
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I guess they can turn the internet off for a day. That will **** the world more than bombs.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 11:58 am
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RTE have been reporting a few Russian ships off the southwestern Irish coast but if they were cable cutting then I'm sure the US would be on it.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 12:38 pm
 pk13
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They keep shooting down their own aircraft inside Russia too.

As for cutting the pipe to the US
*WWW*
we may or may not have a spare I'm sure they will try it at some point someone snipped the Shetland isle one allegedly not so long back.
Financial institutions and stock markets won't be happy but back ups are around.
I can see a major uptick in hacking before they attempt to cut it as China won't be impressed if they cut off their eyes and ears
But it's Russia so all bets are off


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 2:49 pm
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Well the so called Russian cyber threat has been pretty much zilch, hasn’t it?


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 3:14 pm
thols2 reacted
 pk13
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They sub it out to north Korea who are very good indeed.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 3:24 pm
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The NORK cyber groups are good at very specific things and there are not too many of them. They predominantly focus on areas of NORK and gaining foreign currency.

Russia has a lot of both military and state run cyber assets and has the ability to call on many arms length groups (like Killnet, noname(057)16) if it wants extra help.

I think the reason that they have not been too successful is that Ukraine has been dealing with their attacks since 2014 and is actually really good at stopping and dealing with them. As for the rest of the world, the occasional DDoS because you say something against Russia, or someone sets you up for an attack is an annoyance, but not terrible.

Remember, once you use malware, people can find it, address it and tell the rest of the world. It’s possible that the Russian state actors are being as slowly starved of ‘ammunition’ as the ground troops.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 3:40 pm
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Excellent interview with Ukraine's Command in Chief


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 4:36 pm
 pk13
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There is a report that NK pay for over half of the nuclear missile program via cyber crime.
That's some activity


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 5:53 pm
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@pk13 have you listened to the Lazarus Heist?


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 6:41 pm
 pk13
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did not know it was back on new episodes from March this year.
Thanks


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 7:06 pm
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Looks like the Russians are so nervous they are shooting down thier own aircraft inside thier own borders.
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1657368124788809728?t=7nMG5gvkxxRujnXE5Pf10A&s=19


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 8:51 pm
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Apparently Alexander Lukashenko is feeling a little poorly after afternoon tea with his old pal Mad Vlad.


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 11:48 pm
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That could be interesting - as I understand it a majority of Belarusian's are opposed to the war and Russia's influence.... Coup time?


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 11:57 pm
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Progorzhin ranting again about Putin again

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1657435618325024770?t=rR9DUSINuv8P2f9q-5GX5Q&s=19

Ukraine making gains in Bakhmut, Ru bricking it about new cruise missiles and western armour,strikes deep in occupied regions, 4 aircraft lost in a day

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1657414209448157186?t=WpmslK8ikNmLEJFTN8pvcQ&s=19

Whether it's a turning point or not Russian morale must be hitting new lows


 
Posted : 13/05/2023 11:59 pm
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Progorzhin ranting again about Putin again

Best he stays away from any windows.


 
Posted : 14/05/2023 12:12 am
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Best he stays away from any windows

I will put the kettle on.


 
Posted : 14/05/2023 12:15 am
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