US drone just hit a Russian plane in the black sea. Or visa versa.
Source?
Ignore me, BBC reporting it now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64957792
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64957792a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64957792">
The drone was apparently in international airspace when it "collided" with a reported Su-27. I wonder if Washington will send Russia the bill?
Meanwhile, Russia is reportedly sending women prisoners to Ukraine.
Hit as in shot down, or hit as in crashed into?
Doh, ignore me "Russian jet collides with"...
Hit after repeatedly having fuel dumped on it in a "reckless, environmentally unsound and unprofessional manner"
Dumping fuel to try and set it on fire? That it would ignite itself on the Reaper's engine, or use the fighter's afterburner to ignite a trail of fuel?
Iran has a presence in Syria too
Iran has a presence in many countries it shouldn't.
Spent time on night aviation patrols chasing IRG back across the border in Iraq while they were trying to ferry arms to Insurgents.
Sadly dropping a JDAM on them was a hard pass by brigade.
Geopolitics is a funny old game.
🙁
Looks like putin just needs to keep going till the US elections. 300 000 mobilized at 1000 a day. That should work. Grim.
Since Surging Lavatory is spouting on in my twitter feed about Russiaphobia, an interesting read as a presentation to the unsc.
https://snyder.substack.com/p/playing-the-victim?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=auto_share
Christ, this is grim
Apparently a base with lots of RU troops was hit by himars in Krasnyi, Luhansk
@rickmeister - Thanks. Interesting and powerful, especially his Response to the Russian questioning his validity and requesting sources.
Are the Russians happy with the strategy? Let Ukraine exhaust itself, there are always more grunts to chuck at it? Plus all the dead can now be celebrated as martyrs of mother russia? Bet with so much russian blood that the populace HAVE to back it?
Dunno, it'd be classic Putin double think.
Dunno, it’d be classic Putin double think.
The idea that Putin is a strategic mastermind just doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. He blundered into a war that his army was not equipped to fight. He thought he had an army to rival NATO, but that was just a delusion. Russia seems to be fixated on capturing territory, regardless of its strategic value. They've squandered tens of thousands of soldiers and equipment for a few square kilometers of territory that has no real value. There's no real thinking, let alone double thinking, behind it. It's just Putin demanding that his generals show that their army is capturing territory, regardless of the cost involved.
Thats not what I'm saying, by any objective measure its a catastrophe but it might suit Putin. He'd prefer a straightforward victpry but a great patriotic sacrifice might be 2nd best - as long as at some point he wins
Are the Russians happy with the strategy?
Doesn't matter. Russia is an autocratic dictatorship. The only person that needs to be content is Putin. As long as he's happy then the war will go on. He could declare that "The war is over, we won, everything is great now" and the Russian media would report that. Doesn't have to be true or false.
What Russian citizens want here is immaterial
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-64974825
Footage of the drone getting a golden shower. maybe they think all US things like being peed on from above
Blimey...
difficult for the pro putin us right wingers to spin that 😀 !
If watch the second attempt the prop is bent as well so more than 2 attempts?
Not accounting shutter speed ect. those cameras look fantastic on that drone.
maybe the drones need to be fitted with a small charge that goes off if nudged. amazing this sort of thing seems to be fairly routine....seems highly likely to mess up...
Klunk
Free Member
difficult for the pro putin us right wingers to spin that 😀 !
Rubbish!
The glorious Russian pilot was simply attempting to refuel the drone as it was perilously low on fuel.
The pro Putin republicans will ignore it and then airbrush it from history. This is happening already with J6.
maybe the drones need to be fitted with a small charge that goes off if nudged. amazing this sort of thing seems to be fairly routine….seems highly likely to mess up…
Apparently they have a 'wipe all software' mode and can be deliberately crashed hard - damaging it beyond much use.
Am I also right in saying that a Predator is pretty 'old' all things relative, therefore unlikely to be that much secret or latest tech on board?
For the Flanker to have hit the prop, it almost certainly hit the Y-tail too. The prop is substantially smaller than the tail. This might also explain why they had to bring it down. A damaged prop and it will glide for a good long while with that wingspan, but with stability affected, maybe not.
Its not a Predator, it's a Reaper - It's MUCH bigger, with far more payload and is usually armed. Reapers are hunter killers, Predators are ISR. Which begs the question, why was there a Reaper over the Black Sea?
Which begs the question, why was there a Reaper over the Black Sea?
Training mission over international waters. Nothing to see. 😉
Its not a Predator, it’s a Reaper – It’s MUCH bigger, with far more payload and is usually armed. Reapers are hunter killers, Predators are ISR. Which begs the question, why was there a Reaper over the Black Sea?
Reaper is ISR capable, think the US retired their Predators a while back, so not that unusual, they'll just be doing basic recce, as they're cheaper to operate and have longer duration.
They're old tech though, doubt the US care about finding it, they've already got the next generation coming in with Protector.
The aircraft and avionics will be older tech, but I'd bet the sensors and signals equipment still has secrets they'd like to keep.
Reaper is ISR capable,
Very true and the video clearly shows there's nothing on the inner hardpoints, which is usually where the guided munitions are attached.
So it had already fired its weapons
If it was deliberate, it begs the question why the Russians would risk downing a fighter jet to take a drone out... in interntional air-space aswell... presumably the jet is a lot more expensive?
So it had already fired its weapons
Could have been on a recon or test flight if unlaiden?
Reaper in an ISR role wouldn't be fitted with weapons, so all stanchions would be empty, unless it's utilising an ISR payload on one.
Reaper is used everywhere, the US use them as part of their border force, they don't have to have weapons fitted, especially when it's flying over water and tends to only have Air to Ground munitions.
why was there a Reaper over the Black Sea?
Surveillance obviously. Looking at the Russians, and probably the Turkish as well. Or anyone else the US feels they need info on.
In international waters all large countries with such facilities use the 'law' to spy on each other, though it would be funny the furore it would cause, if China for example did the same think around the Hawaiian islands, or off the west coast of the United States.
The US would class and report that as a provocation. Fox news phone lines would probably go into meltdown.
If it was deliberate, it begs the question why the Russians would risk downing a fighter jet to take a drone out… in interntional air-space aswell… presumably the jet is a lot more expensive?
They could have downed it with cannon fire or a missile without any risk to the jet. The collision only happened because the pilot was dicking around and cocked up.
The collision only happened because the pilot was dicking around and cocked up.
Doesnt bode well for the discipline of the Ru airforce, they been watching too much Top Gun?
Only because the pilot does not understand basic physics.
If you want to cover a drone in unburnt fuel, fly on ftont of it, then open the taps. The jet wash will distribute the fuel in a nice cone behind the airframe.
Reaper is used everywhere, the US use them as part of their border force, they don’t have to have weapons fitted, especially when it’s flying over water and tends to only have Air to Ground munitions.
I wonder why they didn't they use a Globalhawk? It's a better ISR platform. Risk perhaps?
Risk perhaps?
Risk of being rear-ended by a MiG? 😀
Only because the pilot does not understand basic physics.
If you want to cover a drone in unburnt fuel, fly on ftont of it, then open the taps. The jet wash will distribute the fuel in a nice cone behind the airframe.
I wonder if he was trying to ignite the aerosolised fuel using the engine exhaust, hence the extreme maneuverer close to the drone. Fuel dumps are designed to avoid the hot exhaust, so you'd need to do something a little extreme to try and get it to light. Jet fuel is hard to ignite at the best of times.
Globalhawk has an operating altitude of ^55k ft, Reaper is 25k ft. A Flanker can certainly get to 55k ft (or it could when new), but it wouldn't have the same performance relative to the drone that you could see in the video.
They must have been told to down it without firing a shot thinking the USA would not show the footage only a drunk pilot would do that without authority.
People surmising the jet fuel as an attempt to choke out the air intake on the drone and bring it to stall.
I do like how the USA keep putting out footage it keeps the conspiracy loons in check at home a lesson learned after trump used it to his advantage.
In international waters all large countries with such facilities use the ‘law’ to spy on each other, though it would be funny the furore it would cause, if China for example did the same think around the Hawaiian islands, or off the west coast of the United States.
All major countries conduct surveillance on each other. Russia and China routinely shadow U.S. Navy ships and exercises. It doesn't cause any furore, it's just routine when it's conducted in international waters or airspace. What causes problems is when it strays into territorial waters or it violates rules of peacetime engagement. For example, turning on targeting radars is a provocation. So is flying dangerously close to other aircraft. In this case, the Russian pilot was behaving utterly recklessly. It was almost certainly a deliberate action to provoke the U.S., not just a pilot making an innocent mistake.
Maybe the Russian jet didn't have any ammo left!
People surmising the jet fuel as an attempt to choke out the air intake on the drone and bring it to stall.
I do like how the USA keep putting out footage it keeps the conspiracy loons in check at home a lesson learned after trump used it to his advantage
You'd have just flown above and ahead of it and dumped fuel directly onto the intake. Approaching from the side and the rear and then banking sharply isn't going to do much, especially as the drone is continually moving AWAY from rather than INTO the discharge.
All major countries conduct surveillance on each other. Russia and China routinely shadow U.S. Navy ships and exercises. It doesn’t cause any furore,
I didnt say normal spying would cause a furore thols, i said if China flew a drone for example near the Hawaiian islands, where the US fleet are based, or near to the US west coast. THAT would cause a furor with fox readership.
China uses spy satellites(and balloons), but as far as im aware they dont fly drones near to US navy bases far outside Chinese territory, or close to the US mainland.
Unless of course you know other.
I wonder why they didn’t they use a Globalhawk? It’s a better ISR platform. Risk perhaps?
Pretty sure they have used them - someone linked to one flying in that area a few months ago.
Maybe just practicalities of which drone is needed at what time, maintenance, priority mission/time etc?
I see that an FSB agent smoked in the HQ building in Rostov-on-Don, leading to a small fire.
@daffy
I did think that but I assume a prop engine can fly way slower than a jet. So if the drone slows right down the jets just wizz by or have to do stuff like we have seen. Pilots no claims will be gone after the dash cam footage is uploaded
i said if China flew a drone for example near the Hawaiian islands, where the US fleet are based
Spying within another country's airspace or territorial waters will always cause trouble, it's a serious provocation (check out Francis Gary Powers, for example). In this case, the drone was in international airspace. Surveillance in international airspace is utterly routine. In this instance, the Russian pilot was totally out of order.
Anyone know what the loitering airspeed is for a Reaper?
Must be really tricky to close approach in a large interceptor jet with a stall speed of ...mph?
Certainly too much of a difference for the Ruskies to try the old Spitfire / V1 wing flip trick!!
From Wikipedia "with a maximum speed of about 260 knots (480 km/h; 300 mph) and a cruising speed of 150–170 knots (170–200 mph; 280–310 km/h)"
SU27 landing speed is 140 knots so it can get down to similar speeds as the Reaper but won't be very manoeuvrable.
Most reports I've seen don't think the collision was intentional for the very good reason that it's very risky for the pilot. The intent appears to have been using dumped fuel to bring the reaper down.
Comparing its (published) range of around 1100 miles with deployment time of 24-27 hours suggests a loiter airspeed of as little as 50-60mph; I'm no glider expert but with those very long, straight narrow wings, I'd have though that this speed would make sense for it in loiter mode, practically able to hover over a target into a headwind?
Doesn't look like it's going very fast as the prop is freewheeling slowly before it's whacked.
Nb the damage is one bent and one twisted blade. They're variable angle and it's out of position
gofasterstripes
Free Member
Doesn’t look like it’s going very fast as the prop is freewheeling slowly before it’s whacked.
I assumed the apparent slow rotation speed is just a strobing artefact from the video footage? I'm not sure you can easily ascertain the actual prop speed from that vid.
They could have downed it with cannon fire or a missile without any risk to the jet. The collision only happened because the pilot was dicking around and cocked up.
Firing on an aircraft, uncrewed or otherwise, in international airspace is going initiate a response.
Hence the recklessness instead of very overt armed aggression.
The Reaper like the Predator before it all have zeroise protocols both manual and automatic to erase all data held onboard.
The homeplate is where the recording from the sensors is done, along with routing data, etc.
I assumed the apparent slow rotation speed is just a strobing artefact from the video footage? I’m not sure you can easily ascertain the actual prop speed from that vid.
Think I have a video somewhere of one, let me see if I can find it.
Global Hawks have been in use over the Black Sea since the beginning of the war.
How many "weather balloons" can you have for $32 million I wonder.
99.
I wonder if Nena would agree at that price.
I believe she said "99 red balloons - go buy"
This example shows the difference between normal surveillance operations and illegal provocations. Countries are allowed to operate their ships in international waters. Nobody has a problem with that. Trying to screw up commercial aircraft communications and navigation equipment is illegal provocations. China is upset that Australia is buying nuclear powered submarines so they are flexing their muscles to show that they can disrupt the region if they feel like it and that other countries are too scared to retaliate militarily.
https://twitter.com/TheBaseLeg/status/1636605557401595904
I believe she said “99 red balloons – go buy”
👏👏👏
The mad effort to carry out Putin's order & capture all of Donetsk Oblast by the end of March is looking increasingly unlikely to succeed yet cost Russia huge numbers of soldiers
https://twitter.com/dansabbagh/status/1636757384843370500?t=yd03hyoUb_bgmgc-LG5pAQ&s=19
Seven to one ratio of RU vs UKR killed in Bahkmut apparently.
Gruesome tactics - send out a group of conscripts armed with a sharp stick and a woolly hat for protection. Make a note of where the gunfire that mows them down comes from. Shoot at said position. Repeat.
Been reading a book on Stalingrad..
The Russian side ability for suffering and losses is staggering. On a scale many times what is happening in Ukraine. Its very similar in that the weather amd tactics play a significant part in the way attacks are planned and executed.
But the numbers..... WW2 was another level of destruction altogether
Been reading a book on Stalingrad..
The Russian side ability for suffering and losses is staggering.
Russia is a different country now. Putin shares Stalin's utter lack of concern for human life, but Russians really did face an existential threat back then. Germany's policy of genocide in Eastern Europe meant that surrender just meant death anyway, so you might as well just fight to the death. In this war, Ukraine is in the same position - surrender means genocide, so they aren't going to surrender. Russia, as a country, does not face an existential threat, they could just withdraw their soldiers and the war would be over. Putin is keeping this going for his own fantasies of being remembered as the man who rebuilt the Russian empire, but the soldiers on the ground know how pointless their attacks are. Their morale must be utterly nonexistent, they are forced at gunpoint to make suicidal attacks on Ukrainian positions for the sake of a few meters of ground. All they are doing is frittering their army away, they aren't making any useful gains.
Russia is a different country now
Arguably not. When Germany invaded Poland in 1939, Russia embarked on a pre-war agreement with Germany to split E.Europe and invaded E.Poland a couple of weeks later, followed by Finland, parts of the Baltic states and Romania.
Russia didn't formally declare war then, as now; they annexed Polish territory, its people and held rigged elections
It wasn't until 1941 that Germany invaded the Soviet Union and Russians faced an existential threat
In addition to that.
The population of the Soviet Union in 1940 has been estimated at 194 million, today the Russian Federation has a population of 143 million.
In 1950 the median age is estimated as 23.37, 2020 was 38.6
Millions of those Russian casualties weren't Russian at all, Ukraine and others formed large parts of the Red Army and even greater parts of civilian deaths as the western parts of the Soviet Union fell to the Nazis.
The Russians have no innate ability to suffer more than their former Soviet dominions do. Nor have they really exceeded the misery inflicted on their former Soviet dominions.
Ukraine itself was conquered by both Hitler and Stalin with brutal repression of dissent inflicted by two of the worst human beings to ever have existed.
Some interesting graphics on twitr showing Russian tank losses. Pinch of salt on the actual numbers but they claim to be hitting more armour every day.
With total numbers into 4 figures, now i dont know if that includes tracked APC types too. As most people call anything big, green and heavy with any gun on top a tank.
I don't know how many serviceable units they started with, but they must be running out of replacement units as Western MBTs are deployed
Talks of dropping tear gas from drones into trenches, which is worrying
According to the Oryx website, which a has photographic evidence of each kill;
As of today Russia has lost 1854 tanks, of which 550 were captured
Out of a total 9678 AFV lost.
Mind boggling 😵💫
Well I giggled.