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I’m struggling to see how we can be (partly) to blame for this.
See my earlier post about allowing oligarchs to acquire unhealthy amounts of wealth and power. For the past 30 years the power of oligarchs and billionaires has been allowed to grow far beyond what it ever was before. What the hell do we expect when individuals have so much wealth and power that they can't be challenged? Do we think they're just going to sit back and enjoy their wealth by sunbathing on a yacht in the bahamas? Putin isn't an accident, he's the result of a corrupt global system which enshrines the privelege of a tiny elite.
Lithuania and Poland both wrap around Kaliningrad, is it quiet there or stuff happening too?
Really? I must have missed the NATO invasion of… Where has NATO invaded, again?
Erm, Afghanistan?
Visa is blocking Russian issued cards now, presumably because Russia may get kicked out of SWIFT and the card transactions then not be able to be settled. Tough luck if you happen to be a normal Russian student or tourist overseas.
My daughter's best friends with a pair of twins born in England of Russian parents. She was trying to get their Russian dual citizenship revoked so that they won't have to do national service when they turn 18. I hope she succeeds.
Might want to have an objective read of history there bud.
The US and UK invaded afghanistan after 9/11, with no mandate and were not part of the triggering of Article 5.
The ISAF mission initially led on the back of a UNSC mandate, it ended up being NATO led a little later, this and Resolute Support were considered Article 5 missions.
Russian foreign ministry spokesman is saying that Finland and Sweden would 'face some military and political consequences' if they tried to join Nato.
And so the widening circle of threats starts...
Russian foreign ministry spokesman is saying that Finland and Sweden would ‘face some military and political consequences’ if they tried to join Nato.
I kind of hope their response is "oh, we already did" what are these consquences of which you speak?
I am corrected, thanks for point that out 🙂
Might want to have an objective read of history there bud.
I know it's not in the spirit of recent threads, but I accept your correction of my statement and agree I wasn't entirely correct
No worries, I spent way too much time there so thought it best to really understand why I was. Got info, still didn't make things any clearer. 😀
Lithuania and Poland both wrap around Kaliningrad, is it quiet there or stuff happening too?
The US are currently on a large scale exercise there, 82nd Airborne amongst others, I think Russia will give that a swerve.
The US are currently on a large scale exercise there, 82nd Airborne amongst others, I think Russia will give that a swerve.
UK is in Estonia, Germany in Poland (etc).
I do get the feeling that the ramparts of NATO are currently being bolstered, and will continue to be for a long while.
Back to the cold war permanent basing of troops in Europe for all of us perhaps?
Russian foreign ministry spokesman
If he is the same as the guy heading up the press conference I watched earlier he is clearly madder than a box of frogs.
No doubt, all that infra handed back and or/developed/wasted, oh my days. The video of Boris chipping off at the DSC about no need for armour/tank battles in Europe is not aging well.
Back to the cold war permanent basing of troops in Europe for all of us perhaps?
US says Russian forces losing momentum, it does seem like they've staved off Russian air superiority for now. I hope they give Russia hell on their way into the capital but i don't see Putin backing down even if it's harder than he thought.
If he is the same as the guy heading up the press conference I watched earlier he is clearly madder than a box of frogs.
It doesn't really look like there's anyone sane left in the Kremlin.
If there are then they're keeping their heads down
It doesn’t really look like there’s anyone sane left in the Kremlin.
How long are people like Abramovich going to ally themselves with the Russian goverment if they have lost the plot, the crazier Putin gets the harder it gets for the oligarchs to keep their money secure.
Russian Foreign Minister's spokeswoman has just threatened Finland and Sweden with "serious detrimental consequences of a diplomatic and military kind" should they consider applying to join NATO.
Death of Lenin was a great film, probably worth a rewatch tonight
Stalin not Lenin...doh!
Russian Foreign Minister’s spokeswoman has just threatened Finland and Sweden with “serious detrimental consequences of a diplomatic and military kind” should they consider applying to join NATO.
Sounds like the kind of behaviour that would make me want to apply to join NATO, even if I hadn't wanted to before. Hardly 4D chess from the Putinistas.
Sounds like the kind of behaviour that would make me want to apply to join NATO, even if I hadn’t wanted to before. Hardly 4D chess from the Putinistas.
Alexander Stubb
@alexstubb
·
11m
Russia is pushing Finland closer to
@nato
membership. Vloser than ever before. Our security has been partially based on an option to join. At this rate we have no other option but to join. Finland’s accession would strengthen the Alliance and help keep Northern Europe stable.
Former prime minister of Finland just said this.
If there are then they’re keeping their heads down
With a boss like Putin wouldnt you? Unlike most bosses when he tells HR to terminate someone it might not be immediately clear which meaning he intends.
Putin's direct appeal to Ukrainians to help overthrow their government and the accompanying insults remind me of lord hawhaw in WW2 - and we all know what happened to him.
You couldn't make it up - the Taliban calls for the two sides to resolve their differences peacefully.
Top Taliban Trolling!😂
Well, the company slack group for our Kyiv staff safety makes for sobering reading.
From putin's visible anger and his appeals to the Ukrainian army, you have to feel that his war isn't going as well as he expected it to.
Surely he didn't expect them to welcome the Russians in as an army of liberation?
Klitschko brothers and Usyk apparently returning to Ukraine to bear arms and join the fight.
Surely he didn’t expect them to welcome the Russians in as an army of liberation?
When you live in an echo chamber.
Surely he didn’t expect them to welcome the Russians in as an army of liberation?
He honestly looks so far gone that god only knows what he's thinking. Nothing rational, thats for sure?
Whats interesting is what the Russian armed forces are thinking? What on earth must they think they're doing this for? For some madman to shore up his presidency, protect the illegally acquired riches of a bunch of gangsters and drag the world into a conflict with seriously terrifying potential
Not much of a hill to die on, is it?
Klitschko brothers never left Ukraine; Vitali has been mayor of Kyiv since 2014.
Well, the company slack group for our Kyiv staff safety makes for sobering reading.
Glad they still have internet.
Hardly 4D chess from the Putinistas.
I think these past few weeks, Putin has appeared to be more Mugabe than Machiavelli. And that does beg the question how much of his brilliant tactician image has just been propaganda, is his mental state in decline or is this what he always was a bitter delusional man lashing out to cover up his insecurities.
The past decade or so has highlighted again and again that leadership in politics, finance and business is much more about luck, opportunity and greed (whether greed for wealth or power or both) and actual talent comes a long way down the list of skills exhibited by the "masters of the universe". Putin could just be another example, with an more advanced state propaganda machine at his disposal.
I have to say whilst I think the Russian army will ultimately prevail, I am just so full of admiration for the Ukrainian armed forces, people and their leader.
Unlikely that we'll find out but...how's putin's health?
If he knows he's got limited time this could be his attempt to go out a blaze of glory - or something.
You can't imagine that any of the oligarchs will let it go too far, if they think putin is going off the grid something will happen. The last thing these rich people want to happen is to live in a nuclear wasteland
From putin’s visible anger and his appeals to the Ukrainian army, you have to feel that his war isn’t going as well as he expected it to.
There's already anti war protests. He might get tacit support for "protecting" Russians in small enclaves, but an unjustified invasion of a peaceful neighbour, with Russians coming home in body bags, is a real threat to his support in the military and the wider population.
Too many Russians remember the Afghan occupation.
The last thing these rich people want to happen is to live in a nuclear wasteland
They can just live in another country. That’s the thing about being insanely rich.
I just watched a 14yr old girl riding her bike getting her legs blown off. I’m going to step away from the social media for a bit, it’s too horrific, you can literally see people being massacred real time
I see mad Dobby the House Elf is now threatening Sweden if it joins NATO. Not sure at what point he can be accused of war crimes.
I think he's already exceeded the threshold.
timbog160
Full Member
I have to say whilst I think the Russian army will ultimately prevail, I am just so full of admiration for the Ukrainian armed forces, people and their leader.
Got to admit I became a bit emotional when I read about those 12 Ukrainian border patrol guards that got wiped out on that tiny island off the coast of Odessa today as they wouldn't surrender.
I just watched a 14yr old girl riding her bike getting her legs blown off. I’m going to step away from the social media for a bit, it’s too horrific, you can literally see people being massacred real time
....
Anyone else feel like this is heating up a bit with the statements made at the NATO press conference
Got to admit I became a bit emotional when I read about those 12 Ukrainian border patrol guards that got wiped out on that tiny island off the coast of Odessa today as they wouldn’t surrender.
Same. The room got very dusty for a while there
I'd like to head down to Downing St tomorrow to show my support, and if I get as far as making a banner it's def going to say 'Russian warship, go **** yourself'
I'd encourage anyone who hasn't experienced stuff like that or knows they have a strong constitution to be very careful what links and videos you watch.
This conflict is probably going to be unprecedented in terms of the volume of media coming out. There is some really brutal stuff out there already.
I just watched a 14yr old girl riding her bike getting her legs blown off. I’m going to step away from the social media for a bit, it’s too horrific, you can literally see people being massacred real time
Anyone else feel like this is heating up a bit with the statements made at the NATO press conference
I think they're making strong statements but like Ben Wallace this morning it's very clear there will be no armed force use unless the Russians do something stupid. What's notable is how Poland, Estonia etc aren't being mentioned while Finland, not in NATO is subject to Russian threats if they contemplate joining. Turns out being in the bloc is quite a good deterrent.
@DT78 I don't know if I watched the same video but it purportedly showed a cyclist being hit by a shell but it was obviously faked with cheap plugins.
I reckon we should send Boris to Moscow with a nuke in a mofo'ing clown car.
There's a video of the aftermath, not the CCTV and it's certainly not doctored.
Breaking news, Russia has been banned from the Eurovision3 Song Contest.
That'll learn 'em.
I saw that and snort laughed. If Ukraine compete they'll be a shoe in for winning.
Jokes aside, they're in for a rough night I reckon.
Breaking news, Russia has been banned from the Eurovision3 Song Contest.
That’ll learn ’em
I stuck a fiver on Ukraine winning the Eurovision at 13/1 yesterday
I have absolutely no idea what their song is like but them winning is it absolutely nailed on!
I stuck a fiver on Ukraine winning the Eurovision at 13/1 yesterday
I have absolutely no idea what their song is like but them winning is it absolutely nailed on!
If They do win, I’ll donate any winnings to a refugee charity
I always bet on Eurovision, based purely on geopolitical factors
Russian warship, go **** yourself’
Don't hold back, go full Vlad...!
Russian warship, get in the sea!
FIFY.
Oh, hang on..
Echoing others. Utmost admiration for President Zelenskyy, the Klitschko brothers and the other leaders standing to fight. While our leaders pretend they thought a pissup was a meeting, these proper leaders are enlisting and arming themselves to fight alongside their people. I hope when this is all over that we remember this.
Anyone else feel like this is heating up a bit with the statements made at the NATO press conference
Like I said earlier, dominoes are starting to be placed ready to be knocked over. Putin is deliberately setting things out so that all options lead to what he wants, which may or may not be all-out war. Only he knows and I really don't want to find out.
I’d encourage anyone who hasn’t experienced stuff like that or knows they have a strong constitution to be very careful what links and videos you watch.
This conflict is probably going to be unprecedented in terms of the volume of media coming out. There is some really brutal stuff out there already.
I'm deliberately avoiding any raw footage, using the mainstream news outlets (BBC, Guardian, ITV etc) to keep the really nasty stuff away from me. As just reading this:
I just watched a 14yr old girl riding her bike getting her legs blown off.
has shocked me, let alone seeing it.
Andrey rublev (Russia pro tennis player) wrote "no war please" on a camera lens at the Dubai open. This is a small example of not all people in Russia supporting this war, and hopefully the anti war sentiment will grow.
While our leaders pretend they thought a pissup was a meeting, these proper leaders are enlisting and arming themselves to fight alongside their people
There’s just been a female MP on channel 4 news who very eloquently explained now she’d got a Kalashnikov and was going to fight. You could tell that she meant it too
Meanwhile, we have Instagram Liz and her private jet flights
This was probably discussed some pages back but could Ukraine have done a better job of pacifying Putin without totally submitting to all his demands? Did their foreign office sit in the fence to long?
I'm really hoping this runs its course quick but I can't see it, the Ukraine are putting up a hell of a fight
Was carrying my two toddlers into the house earlier and just couldn't imagine people with young children and families are going through there at the moment, to either escape or stay and fight
Some very brave Russians making their view of the invasion clear.
Some very brave Ukrainians standing up to the invading forces.
Putin on the other hand is the biggest coward going. Just look at him. Spineless shit.
It’s just going to escalate isn’t it. Putin going to push and push for more, already mentioning Sweden and Finland. China will be watching ever-so closely, they’ll see Putin getting away with it (relatively) and will think as nothing will happen to them they’ll invade anywhere they want to.
The photos and stories coming out of Ukraine are heartbreaking. Aside from those already mentioned above I’m also finding the pictures of people fleeing with their pets upsetting too
Wonder how belligerent the pentagon is feeling, and what they are saying to Biden. Perhaps not feet on the ground but I'm sure the US Airforce would love to see what's what with current Russian kit.
Perhaps not feet on the ground but I’m sure the US Airforce would love to see what’s what with current Russian kit.
One tiny wee mistake and such a move would turn into the shit show to end all shit shows. Would you rather evidence of US weapons, a downed jet or a pilot being paraded on TV?
Just look at him. Spineless shit.
I just watched the televised announcement he gave today. He looked truly unhinged.
Terrifying!
They may conclude they'll end up in a shooting war sooner or later if the Russians have it all their own way in the Ukraine. (latvia and Estonia having envoked Nato Article 4)
See China has pulled some financial services from them and the hacking group Anonymous have waged war.
Odd that a group of civilians could potentially do more damage than nato...
So, do we hammer frozen sausages into Vlad's front lawn or not?
Why can't people understand the simple fact that if nato gets involved this will escalate to a full blown war in Europe and when Russia start losing it will involve nukes, nato can't do anything but who is going to be able to stop a bunch of very committed hackers.
Ive sat watching and listening to the news for the last 48 hours in shame for what one blood thirsty tyrant has done. In normal life people sit, talk and sort problems out simply. Not send people off to murder others. Putin is simply in my eyes now a war criminal. A bully and with Bullys unless people stand up to them they carry on and on. I only hope the Russian people see him from what he is and his demise comes swiftly.
Images of the general populous taking arms, the saddening news of the 12 on the Island in a defiant last stand to the artilary ship, and the lady in the car that was run over with the tank, make me wish any suffering they endure is not for nothing.
My Unkle and three cousins are all Ukranian and the pride they must be feeling in their country men now can only be oershadowed by the dissapointment they have for the countrys they thought might uphold international law.
This clearly isn't going as smoothly as putin expected/wanted so I think he has 3 options:
1. Continue and accept russian death toll as necessary; Ukrainian deaths will be seen as collateral damage.
2. Back down.
3. Escalate with objective of rapid capitulation.
Option 1 will further damage his credibility and 'popularity' in Russia; doubt he cares.
Option 2 is a non-starter.
Option 3 in whatever form it could take - dirty bomb, indiscriminate (carpet) bombing, limited nuclear strike - would, almost certainly, result in Nato becoming directly involved on the ground and retaliatory action; doubt he's particularly bothered by this either.
There are other options but none of them include him taking decisions; they will be around others deciding what to do about him and enforcing their will.
Tune in to byline TV on YouTube now, show independent journalism some support!
Putin is undoubtedly clever and an astute politician. He’s spent 20 years quietly making Russia more powerful. Strategically he’s a world apart from the likes of Boris, Truss, Trump etc.
But I think he’s also somewhat deluded. He’s obsessed with returning Russia to it’s former (in his mind) glory from the Soviet era. He’s surrounded by sycophants and has few checks and balances. He reminds me a bit of Saddam Hussein.
And he’s 70 this year. It’s not unusual for someone’s mental faculties to decline at or even before that sort of age.
Which is of course a very dangerous combination.
Interesting how the Russians respond to the Cyber attack. Given any retaliatory Cyber attack could trigger NATO's Article 5 (According to Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Mark Warner).
Saw the Ukranian politician on C4 news, my first thought was how much more intelligent she seemed than the rabble we call our government. Also saw the ex president joining the defence forces. I was also quite surprised by the numbers of office worker and graphic designer types queuing for kalashnikovs.
I very much got the feeling that rather than expecting any kind of conventional military victory they see inflicting as many casualties as possible on the invading Russians as the only option open to them.
I also wonder how Belarussians feel about their country being used a s a launch pad for invading a third country. Lukashenko's is a puppet dictator with a much weaker grip than Putin has over his nation's population. Should there be protests or unrest there, maybe some of those Russian tanks will be swinging north again to crackdown on Belarussian protesters .
I'm reminded of 1968 and the Prague Spring, Country elects a reformist government, Soviets send in the tanks.
^^18000 assault rifles handed out in Kyiv alone.
It will be a powderkeg of a country to try and occupy.
There’s just been a female MP on channel 4 news who very eloquently explained now she’d got a Kalashnikov and was going to fight. You could tell that she meant it too
The Leader of the Opposition party in Ukraine no less... She is their equivalent of Keir Starmer.
I watched the interview earlier, live... I ****ing cried I'm not afraid to admit!
This was probably discussed some pages back but could Ukraine have done a better job of pacifying Putin without totally submitting to all his demands? Did their foreign office sit in the fence to long?
Why would it have been their job to...? They are their own sovereign nation. They have no responsibility to appease the megalomaniac demands of a facist dictator!
Some very brave Russians making their view of the invasion clear.
Bravery gets you where in Russia...? These people no longer exist! They might still be alive, but their social security numbers, their personal records etc... All wiped from record!
Let's not **** about here... Putin has spent the last 30yrs planning this. He takes his impetus directly from Stalins legacy, and shows equal disdain for his own citizens as he does anyone else who happens to disagree with him, just as Stalin did.
Some very brave Ukrainians standing up to the invading forces.
Heartening to see just how much fight they have in them! It's going to be a horrendous conflict to say the least, but when Russian forces casualties already outnumber total Ukrainian casualties by 4:1 or more going from independent sources so far, lets hope their resolve doesn't dwindle!
It’s just going to escalate isn’t it. Putin going to push and push for more, already mentioning Sweden and Finland. China will be watching ever-so closely, they’ll see Putin getting away with it (relatively) and will think as nothing will happen to them they’ll invade anywhere they want to.
For China, this is make or break... They have the ability to align themselves with the western world right now and to reject Putin's Russia, and they will inevitably take their place as number 1 economy and political power in the world sooner than later.
Or they can align themselves with Russia... And spend the next several decades facing massive sanctions worldwide as a result of their involvement in this conflict! This isn't a fight where people can afford to sit on the fence... I feel quite disgusted that NATO is offering such poor support to a country that has been trying to join for a prolonged period without question as to their loyalties now. I do feel that Sweden or Finland may not be allowed to fall so readily by NATO though.
Absolutely disgusted that NATO isn't imposing a no fly zone over Ukraine though! Shockingly self serving behaviour...
It's just mental, i watch this stuff in complete disbelief just now, what is the long game for Russia, i know Putin has a dream of overpowering them to victory and then installing a puppet government, but that's not working long term, it has never worked, christ Afghanistan should tell them that, Vietnam, those parts of the Ukraine that would want to join up again didn't need an invasion, so watching it all unfold is just weird, Russia can't just hold what they take either, they aren't as mighty as they want people to think, and turning into an occupying force is never going to end well.
Lets just hope that the world just shut down Russia (and Belarus) now, all those accounts, all those yachts, all that London property and so on, it's been a dirty (well known) secret for ages, so just make it hard for the oligarchs and others to continue life like this doesn't matter.