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Troll of the century
No man, just no.
Apparently, it's all just a game. Just not to the people in Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/natsechobbyist/status/1494490239586471936
From the Guardian
The head of the Russia-backed separatist states in Ukraine has announced a mass evacuation of citizens in what may be part of a plan to trigger a Russian intervention in Ukraine.
Denis Pushilin, the head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, announced that he believed Ukraine was planning to attack the separatist state and said he would begin a mass evacuation of its citizens to Russia on Friday. The Luhansk People’s Republic, another Russian-backed separatist state, announced similar plans.
There is no indication that Ukraine is planning an offensive operation in southeast Ukraine, where the front lines of the conflict have remained static for nearly seven years. Russia has also moved an estimated 150,000 troops to the border area and appears to be seeking a pretext for which to launch an intervention.
Nonetheless, Pushilin said that he believed that Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky was planning to launch an offensive and that the army would shell cities and towns in the Russian-backed separatist areas of southeast Ukraine.
In a video statement, Pushilin said he was organising a “mass, centralised departure of the population to the Russian Federation, adding that “women, children and elderly people are subject to evacuation first”.
He also claimed that he had agreed with the Russian leadership to prepare sheltering points for the population in the Rostov region of southwest Russia. The buy-in from the Russian authorities for what would be a difficult logistical operation to move hundreds of thousands of people could indicate that this is a serious development.
Ukraine immediately denied Pushilin’s claims, as well as others in Russian-backed media that claimed the Ukrainian army was targeting a chemical facility.
“We categorically refute Russian disinformation reports on Ukraine’s alleged offensive operations or acts of sabotage in chemical production facilities,” said Dmytro Kuleba, Ukraine’s foreign minister. “Ukraine does not conduct or plan any such actions in the Donbas. We are fully committed to diplomatic conflict resolution only.”
There has been a flareup in fighting along the frontlines of the conflict this week. The Ukrainian army has said that shells fired from separatist-held territory had hit a kindergarten on Thursday, injuring several adults.
At a press conference in Moscow on Friday afternoon, Vladimir Putin said that he was witnessing an “aggravation of the situation in the Donbas”.
Asked about the evacuation plan, Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov told journalists that he “didn’t know what was going on there with Pushilin”, the Interfax news agency reported.
As he's the installed leader, its likely its part of a false flag implication to keep the US on its toes and nothing will happen.
We can hope rather nothing will happen i should say
I wonder if a nice storm across Western Europe means no drones/overflying so fewer eyes watching...?
US satellites are always watching.
Watching the Russian, watching the Chinese...
Watching us 😉
dyna-ti
Free Member
US satellites are always watching.Watching the Russian, watching the Chinese…
Watching us 😉
Take some advice from yourself and stay on topic.
dyna-ti
Free Member
I thought we were discussing the Russia/Nato/Ukrainian thing.Oh do try to stay on topic 🙄
It you two could stop making this a little cat fight between yourselves that would be appreciated. Thanks.
It you two could stop making this a little cat fight between yourselves that would be appreciated. Thanks.
Fair enough, let's stay on topic about Ukraine.
https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1494687745964449801
John Pilger (@johnpilger) Tweeted: Remember Colin Powell lying at the UN that Iraq had WDM? Remember the baby incubators lie, and the Benghazi massacre lie, and the Gulf of Tonkin lie? Cue US Secretary of State Blinken accusing Russia of targeting a nursery. No evidence, of course.
https://t.co/x59d2W2Cu7 https://twitter.com/johnpilger/status/1494682976608731143?s=20&t=M3Y_xNazMrvWWwNZT3H5UA
^^ Worth clarifying.
You mean it was hit but is not confirmed as deliberately targeted?
Also John Pilger;
In an interview on RT: "This is a carefully constructed drama as part of the propaganda campaign that has been building now for several years in order to justify the actions of NATO, Britain and the United States, towards Russia. That’s a fact"
EDIT: I generally admire John Pilger he's done some remarkable work, I'm just pointing out that he's not free from saying daft things, or conflating events for effect
Oh dear - what a pillock!
Read that quote again, it’s idiotic 🤷♂️
Is it just me or does the Russian disinformation campaign have a whole "doing your course work on the last day of term" vibe about it nowadays. It's like they can't even be bothered anymore
I mean, wanting folks to believe that the Ukrainians would wait until a good percentage of the Russian land forces are ranged along the border and then launching an artillery strike of the Donetsk region...Really?
I mean, wanting folks to believe that the Ukrainians would wait until a good percentage of the Russian land forces are ranged along the border and then launching an artillery strike of the Donetsk region…Really?
Ha. I opened the thread to post just this. I suppose it could be a double bluff by the evil imperialist west, or at least that’s what John Pilger might say next…
I think Putin et al have realised they don’t need to put in that much effort anymore. There are plenty in the “west” that are so determined to disbelieve anything the US/EU say about it that they’re just doing Putin’s work for him. A few of them are posting in this thread.
So tedious DD.
The people on this thread who think the UK & US are white knights who've never done a thing wrong are naive in the extreme.
We've been lied to so many times by our and the US's intelligence services/ politicians about wars and foreign policy - forgive me for being sceptical.
The people on this thread who think the UK & US are white knights who’ve never done a thing wrong are naive in the extreme.
I don't think you'd find one person on this thread who thinks that TBH, but we're not naive enough to believe anything that Putin's mob say either.
LOL nick thats a hilarious post for many reasons
The people on this thread who think the UK & US are white knights who’ve never done a thing wrong are naive in the extreme.
Plenty of wrongs done by the U.K. and US.
None of which is an excuse for Russias repeated military action in Ukraine including the current round of intimidation that may also lead to invasion.
Best to think of it this way ctk.
I could go up to London and hold up a placard behind a reporter on live TV saying for instance, "BLAME BORIS/BIDEN FOR UKRAINE NOT PUTIN!!" and get away with it. If near No.10 I can imagine being, potentially, told to move along or such but that's about it.
Would I want to be standing anywhere in Moscow subverting a live broadcast (or no broadcast at all...) with a sign saying "BLAME PUTIN NOT BIDEN/ JOHNSON!!"?
Bloody hell no. No I would not. I'd not be expecting to see my family anytime soon, perhaps ever.
Its a non to subtle difference and a very important one.
So tedious DD.
Yet you took the time to read, digest and reply.
The problem with Russia’s disinformation war is that the efforts have indeed, as nickc points out, become so amateurish.
It’s worth checking out the thread I’ve linked below. This is from one of the Bellingcat guys who’s analysing all the visual cues from the propaganda war being waged by the LDR/NDR bots and finding that a lot of the videos and photos are just bullshit. Many, supposedly from different areas at different times recorded at identical times/locations. I mean, come on, they’ve chosen SM sites where anybody can view the metadata from all the bullshit photos and videos. Are you saying you really believe this stuff?
These are the guys who just used open source photos and video to show that MH17 was taken down with Russian weaponry supplied to pro-Russian forces in the occupied areas of east Ukraine. A few years back now - I’d go and check out what Pilger thought back then, but I wouldn’t know where to look. Frankly, I don’t really care to be honest.
Have a read through. I’m pretty sure Bellingcat aren’t a wing of US/UK intelligence agencies, but you’ll just have to come to that conclusion by yourself.
https://twitter.com/arictoler/status/1494687745964449801?s=21
Plenty of wrongs done by the U.K. and US.
None of which is an excuse for Russias repeated military action in Ukraine including the current round of intimidation that may also lead to invasion.
But are all these wrongs a reason to not trust the U.K and U.S to do the right thing? Or have honest intentions?
Yet you took the time to read, digest and reply.
Again tedious! Why be a dick?
Are you saying you really believe this stuff?
What am I supposed to be believing?
Not really relevant.
It’s what Russia and Ukraine have done and will do, that is relevant. Ukraine isn’t some fool, they know the west as well as Russia.
The chances of the US invading Ukraine to force its will upon it is basically zero.
What am I supposed to be believing?
I don’t know. Nobody’s telling you to believe anything. What do you believe? I’m saying I don’t necessarily take the evil west’s take on everything, but there are plenty of independent investigators out there analysing open source data to disprove the disinformation put out by Putin’s bot army. We can all go back and find instances of all regimes acting like arseholes and lying about it. I mean, go ahead and keep posting that you don’t trust the US/UK - but to what objective? Why did you post Pilger’s tweet? Just to remind us that Powell etc lied about WMDs? If that’s the case, thanks for the reminder bro, I’d completely forgotten about that. Why do you think Pilger posted it?
WTF are you on about? John Pilger post is self explanatory and his reasons are too.
WTF are you on about?
Your posts. Are there any more lies from the US or U.K. of which you’d like to remind us? Or can you just reference where someone on the thread has implied that the west are full of white knights? Or would you just like to paste another Pilger tweet?
Not just lies but terrible outcomes when they've intervened in countries.
Was my one Pilger tweet too many? Why has it upset you so much? Are contrasting views not allowed? WTF is your problem?
I don’t know. Nobody’s telling you to believe anything. What do you believe? I’m saying I don’t necessarily take the evil west’s take on everything, but there are plenty of independent investigators out there analysing open source data to disprove the disinformation put out by Putin’s bot army. We can all go back and find instances of all regimes acting like arseholes and lying about it. I mean, go ahead and keep posting that you don’t trust the US/UK – but to what objective? Why did you post Pilger’s tweet? Just to remind us that Powell etc lied about WMDs? If that’s the case, thanks for the reminder bro, I’d completely forgotten about that. Why do you think Pilger posted it?
LOL WTF are you on about? You must be drunk- fair enough I'll give you a pass
Why did you post Pilger’s tweet? Just to remind us that Powell etc lied about WMDs?
Well its the little boy who cried wolf isnt it ?. Not just one lie,Which cost thousands their lives, lets not forget or easily cast that aside. Kids burning alive in their bedrooms as the expensive missiles come raining in. Its lie after lie after lie.
And to what end, what is the goal, the end game so to speak 😕
Is it hard to picture or does saying " Thanks for reminding me bro" in a sarcastic tone make it easier to dismiss and put out of your mind and rest in the knowledge you want to remain blissfully unaware of the real cost of perpetual war. The human cost.
Its one thing to claim war is wrong, but another just to dismiss it as the fault of someone else. Usually not that country who started the war in the first place. Is that not just very wrong, or a cop out, or something much much worse.
.
The term 'Fake news' was coined in the US, and by people who were intelligent enough to see much of the rhetoric were lies upon lies. The US public now doesn't now know who to believe, on any subject, because they have been fed falsehoods for decades.
The US latest budget for the military is $850 billion. Is there that much war going on, is the US under that great a threat to justify destroying most of its social structure to perpetrate wars and conflicts to keep themselves safe. I believe the entire cost in pounds to the UK for the whole of the 2nd world war adjusted to inflation was £200 billion. less than a quarter of the US's current budget.
$850 to the detriment of social security, of health centers, or any sort of help. The cost of living, the cost of heating, no money in the pocket of the people, but plenty for bombs to drop on agricultural workers.
Are they so at risk. are they under constant threat of annihilation ?.
or is it that there is another reason. Just ask yourself what could that reason possibly be. And please dont ask for my opinion on it. you already know my opinion on it,, but use your own intelligence to decipher the truth, no matter how disturbing that turns out to be.
Then maybe, just maybe we can move forward and history will not keep repeating itself.
Oh hello. Again.
ctk
Full Member
Not just lies but terrible outcomes when they’ve intervened in countries.
dyna-ti
Free Member
I thought we were discussing the Russia/Nato/Ukrainian thing.Oh do try to stay on topic 🙄
This about Ukraine being invaded by Russia. They have asked for assistance from NATO. NATO has not invaded Ukraine and has no plans to.
Having clarified that, what is it about Putin that you guys admire so much?
You're being evasive again thols. Question dodging.
If you aren't realizing it ,heres the definition and some examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evasion_(ethics)#Question_dodging
We're seeing some interesting idioms in this thread.
…idioms…
I could replace a letter.
Haven't there been enough warnings on this thread Darcy about being offensive and insulting.
We’re seeing some interesting idioms in this thread.
Your guess is as good as mine, but we can always cross that bridge when we come to it, hang on in there, and it's better late than never to get your act together, get something out of your system, and give someone the benefit of the doubt, or we may well have to go back to the drawing board.
After all, it's not rocket science.
dyna-ti
Free Member
Haven’t there been enough warnings on this thread Darcy about being offensive and insulting.
I think you're the only person who got warned for being offensive. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Top of Putin's playlist
It's worth a watch that vid interesting overall analysis, he makes a lot of very valid points, from the view point of 7 years ago and not coloured by today's nonsense. Ignore the header and listen to the content. It's not a pro-Russian vid, just looking at the realties.
Puts the whole argument in its place in a wider Geo-political sense, ie USA is more interested in combating China these days than Russia, and NATO (and Europe) will essentially become less and less relevant as time passes, a difficult argument to counter tbh.
Ukraine really shouldn't be putting it's eggs in the NATO basket. Cause there's never going to be a time when it comes to it's rescue here. Ukraine should be thinking how it becomes a bridging nation between Russia and the EU, rather than fancifully thinking NATO or the EU has it's back.
USA is more interested in combating China these days than Russia, and NATO (and Europe) will essentially become less and less relevant as time passes, a difficult argument to counter
“It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.”
― Yogi Berra
Russia's behaviour is having the opposite effect that it wanted. It's reinforcing to the NATO members how important it is to maintain NATO.
Ukraine should be thinking how it becomes a bridging nation between Russia and the EU, rather than fancifully thinking NATO or the EU has it’s back.
Yes, that's what Ukraine wanted to be. They wanted closer ties with the EU, but Russia rejected that and invaded back in 2014. Ukraine is not a NATO member and there is zero chance of it becoming one anytime soon, that was never an option. The only way that Ukraine can become a bridging nation between the EU and Russia is to persuade Russia to end the ongoing invasion and accept that Ukraine is a sovereign nation.
Ukraine is not the source of the problem, they didn't invade Russia. NATO is not the source of the problem either, they did not invade either Ukraine or Russia, any assistance they are providing to Ukraine is the result of desperate pleas for help from Ukraine. Russia is the problem here, they invaded Ukraine.
Ukraine should be thinking how it becomes a bridging nation between Russia and the EU, rather than fancifully thinking NATO or the EU has it’s back.
That was the deal offered by Russia.
The EU wants Ukraine to deal exclusively with them and offered so much. Russia wanting to stay in control offered a better deal, more money, less costs on gas prices, and were quite happy for the Ukrainians to deal with both them and the EU.
So a one sided deal with the EU, or a 2 sided deal with Russia. It would be in the Ukrainians best interest to deal with both.
Keeping in mind that despite all of this, of everything going on, Russia is still the Ukraine's biggest trading partner.
Much like the US. Ideological differences, and lots of nasty stuff said by the US towards Russia, but every year the United States still buys $18 million worth of oil off the Russians. And its not just oil, its also minerals and precious metals.
EU/US trade is worth an estimated $1/2 trillion each way, some 19% of the US's total GDP. Russia greatest trading partner is the EU. Trade between Russia and the EU is about $175 billion.
Kind of suggests that conflict between Russia and the US has more to do with trade than anything else.
--------
Future conflicts
The EU receives 40% of its gas from Russia. The UK as a whole gets 40% of its gas from the north sea.
What happens when and if Scotland gains independence and that resource is lost, or England and the remaining constituents(Wales/NI/Exports) are then forced to pay the Scottish for the gas they need.
Do you see England honouring the results of an independence referendum should it go against them ?.
That could well be a question for the future.
Will we see the US siding with England and claiming the Scottish referendum is illegal.