I don’t know, pushing for war on false pretences that there were WMD?
vooomvooom
Free Member
I don’t know, pushing for war on false pretences that there were WMD?
The Beeb were pushing for war??
... and The Guardian are a bunch of liberal handwringers. Not known for their hawkish stance.
Blame governments, blame incredibly inept intelligence communities by all means but blaming MSM (particularly the above) is nonsensical.
Can we leave past conflicts to another thread?
comparing apples to dog shite is no help
Repeating lies there were WMD, making it „ok” to go and bomb and destroy a country.
pk13
Free Member
Can we leave past conflicts to another tread?
Your comparing apples to dog shite.
I completely agree, it's been done a thousand times on here.
I think youll find the government of the day did that
and the guardian were one of the first to question the veracity of the dodgyy dossier (channel4 news got there 1st)
this was 4 days after it was released
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/feb/07/uk.internationaleducationnews
and it was the BBCs andrew gilligan who really went after the dossier and was attacked for it
so if you can provide some evidence thatd be great
Yes, definitely leave this. When I was asked to explain my mistrust towards MSM, I used Iraq as an example.
vooomvooom
Free Member
Yes, definitely leave this. When I was asked to explain my mistrust towards MSM, I used Iraq as an example.
For what it's worth, everyone on here is likely to agree with you over Iraq.
It was a shit war at every level (not that there is ever a "good" war) and it needs to be remembered as such.
Videos are available on Twitter.
Please don't search for videos of that atrocity on twitter, aside from anything else viewing the content and possessing the recording is illegal in the UK. Just don't, okay.
When I was asked to explain my mistrust towards MSM
Being cautious about the agenda and bias and the track record of any media is wise. Now apply that to the website you linked to.
I don’t know
That's a refreshingly honest take. I highly recommend the film Official Secrets that explains how the Guardian reported on the WMD "dodgy dossier".
Kelvin, I agree with your point. To be honest, I’ve only read that article about Ukraine and since the author isn’t just a made up „expert” ( however his credibility has been questioned here) , I thought it would add something to this conversation. Everyone can (and will) decide about that themselves. Perhaps I’ll have a look at the other articles later , so can’t comment on that now.
Mainstream source is just information nothing else.
You are aware that is the fundament of journalism?
You are aware that is the fundament of journalism?
Yes, I know. Hence, I don't trust any of them regardless.
Nope, I keep looking but I can’t find the logic in that statement.
How many pages of deflection efforts is this now?
I came across an intersting article from the Conversation (albeit from 2019) outlining that most people in Donbas wanted to re-integrate with Ukraine.
"Preferences about the future status of the Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics remained stable in the government-controlled Donbas. Across both 2016 and 2019, around 65% of the respondents wanted to see these areas reintegrated into Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts without any kind of special status.
In the separatist-held areas of the Donbas, about 55% of the respondents expressed a preference for being part of the Ukrainian state. This is very significant for the next round of the negotiations as this wish for reintegration is an important corrective to Russia’s official rhetoric and public perceptions in the West."
Forced conscription of Donbas residents in the enclaves who are then thrown against some of Ukraine's best troops with little training won't be endearing the enclave residents to the Russians either. As has been said a few times in this thread, in Ukraine, Russian speaking doesn't always equate to being pro Russian.
This is an informed and bang up to date assessment of the the state of Russian forces likely to be deployed in the East of Ukraine in the coming weeks and months. TL/DR - the headline figures of troop numbers massively underplay the seriously degraded combat effectiveness of these reconstituted units. It will take months and in some cases years to recover that combat effectiveness.
@blokeuptheroad very true. You have to wonder where it leaves future relationships between people from Donbas and other Ukranians, especially in the context of any future desire by the Donbas region to reintegrate.
That Postil site is something else.
From their "About Us" page.
"There is a heavy pall of cultural fatigue smothering the West. It is a true Dark Age, where wisdom is confused with information, truth is problematized as spin, faith is ridiculed as superstition, language is tightly controlled, and reason is shouted down by weaponized emotion.
We recognize that human beings cannot live without ideals, without transcendence, without truth. In effect, there can be no humanity without God."
@chewkw my family are straits Chinese from Penang. I can understand them lah, but it takes me a few days to adjust to it when I'm there
I am more than a little troubled that we are seeing some harrowing reports in our media and yet this thread has turned into a back and forth exchange over one forumite with a history of dubious behaviour.
We've seen an horrific attack on civilians and the reports coming out of Bucha are extremely distressing, yet Russia's Foreign Minister claims the aftermath was "staged". If you're still parroting line that the citizens of Ukraine brought this upon themselves then you really need to go and get some perspective.
Can anyone recall the guy that analysed Russian information war activity that showed it was heavily focused on Asia/Africa?
It was shared here via a Twitter link.
"Ukraine, Russian speaking doesn’t always equate to being pro Russian."
Crimea has been occupied for 8 years now and even many 'pro Russian' residents there are beginning to have buyers remorse, realising that Putin has turned their peninsula onto a Police State / military barracks.
Putin invaded based on assumptions from 10 years ago and doesn't realise how the situation has changed in Ukraine during that time. The far right have much less of a political presence in Ukraine now than they did a decade ago, when they had 10% representation in parliament. Now it's down to 2%, which kind of indicates that much of the nationalism from earlier times was based on wanting to be free of Russian domination rather than innate Nazism.
The pro Russians of east Ukraine are now experiencing an accelerated version of what happened in Crimea, realising that not only are their sons about to be conscripted to be cannon fodder, but likely they'll be firing those cannons at their own mum and dad.
It would be interesting to know the numbers of pro Russian Ukranians who have been 'liberated' from life by Putin's artillery? The wanton shelling of Eastern Ukranian towns and cities hasn't discriminated based on linguistic or ethnic origins.
As has been said a few times in this thread, in Ukraine, Russian speaking doesn’t always equate to being pro Russian.
And being "pro Russian" doesn't always equate to wanting to live under Putin's regime. I suspect that's now true for even more people in Ukraine than it was at the start of the year.
We have not entered the full scale nuke war yet production has reduced by 25%. As I said if all hell break loose, post hell, there will be mass starvation (no one to farm and land contaminated). Winning is empty. I always wonder how UK is going to sustain themselves? Polytunnels may not be enough?
So Ukraine has to be the sacrificial lamb to safeguard the rest of us? Who's next?
“Don’t be like that lah”
Isn't that scouse?
Blimey. Makes the point well.
Lots of useful info on the website [bloody.energy] as well.
I found the section on Glencore of particular interest, considering the links to Lynton Crosby and a number of pet projects of our government, for example Britishvolt.
Slight distraction
@chewkw my family are straits Chinese from Penang. I can understand them lah, but it takes me a few days to adjust to it when I’m there
Good lah to know ... LOL! Love the food there. I can speak the dialects with no issue.
So Ukraine has to be the sacrificial lamb to safeguard the rest of us? Who’s next?
At the moment all sides are determined so nothing will change or can be changed. My view is that UK should try to be as self sufficient in food as much as possible since the current conflict will last for a long time. For some reasons I keep thinking of polytunnels to increase food production if war escalate.
War in Ukraine started in 2014 and now it started again in 2022. I can easily see the conflict prolonging for another 10 years.
This is the logic behind sanctions, whether you agree or not it is a good argument. Not sure how reliable the source to be but there you go. I have already mentioned that sanctions are just punitive.
Isn’t that scouse?
LOL! I cannot understand scouse at all. I used to have a scouse neighbour and I couldn't understand a word he was saying LOL! I don't mean Red Dwaft scouse accent (that I can understand).
War in Ukraine started in 2014 and now it started again in 2022. I can easily see the conflict prolonging for another 10 years.
Agreed. Depressing, isn't it.
Oh, the idea that the UK can somehow suddenly become self sufficient as regards food is as fanciful as it was when given as an "answer" in 2016 when questions were asked about the effects of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union. Putin's ongoing war will push up food prices here (just as putting up barriers to trade in food with Europe has), but that won't result in a huge expansion of arable farming etc at home to try and bring food costs back down or to increase food security. That's really not how the UK has worked for hundreds of years, or is likely to work in the next hundred years. Even if we produced all the food we eat here (by cutting out things from our diets we can't grow here for example), the price and availablity of food will always be impacted by world events. Also... I like rice.
I can easily see the conflict prolonging for another 10 years.
At the current rate of attrition the Russian forces won't last anything like that long.
Even if we produced all the food we eat here (by cutting out things from our diets we can’t grow here for example), the price and availablity of food will always be impacted by world events. Also… I like rice.
In the far east some items are already seeing a bit of a slow down due to supply but whether it is shortage cannot be confirmed yet.
At the current rate of attrition the Russian forces won’t last anything like that long.
Either one side wins or we are heading for a long conflict.
I can easily see the conflict prolonging for another 10 years.
The video posted by blokeuptheroad touches on the demographics of this.
It's not that you wont see another war started by Russia, it's more a question of scale.
Assuming it's not bollocks of course.
Renegade Inc...
...Is featured in RT's (formerly Russia Today) programming schedule and features George Galloway as a guest commentator. The individual who shared the video apparently doesn't like the BBC or the Guardian because they're "biased".
Maybe try this and consider why you're not taken very seriously?
<Edit> Why would a programme that calls into question the effectiveness of sanctions against Russia be hosted by a Russian state controlled broadcaster?
So, catch up read again and from German TV, pro-Russia demos
It's seeming like there is a big push for a "win" to coincide with the Moscow Victory Parade May 9th....
The intervening days will probably be the hardest if Mad Vlad McMad throws everything at this now to secure whatever "victory" looks like on May 9.
They're already preparing the vehicles for the may day parade....
https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1513393454486802439?s=20&t=PqHxyjD524HWObhkZaLlWg
Not a serious post
A whole new world of bangernomics
The Ukrainian association of scrap metal merchants are planning a slightly more lavish Christmas piss up this year....
That's nothing, the Ukrainian NFU is getting a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.
Read an interesting price about intelligence gathering in the early days of the war. Apparently lots of civilians were using either texts or calling relatives if they didn’t have a smartphone, and uploading Russian tank or army locations to a Telegraph account set up by the Ukrainian govt. Lots of folks just sending in Google maps with pinned locations!
I did wonder what's going to happen to all that Russian scrap. Must be quite valuable on its own so there'll end up being a boost in the metal recycling business in Ukraine for years after this.
I did wonder what’s going to happen to all that Russian scrap. Must be quite valuable on its own so there’ll end up being a boost in the metal recycling business in Ukraine for years after this.
Probably depress the prices of steel by a fair bit if there's that much spare stuff knocking around all of a sudden! It'd be quite ironic if Russian tanks got recycled into steel beams and girders to rebuild Ukraine.
That said, it's going to take another decade and tens if not hundreds of billions of ££ to sort the mess out and return Ukraine to a semblance of normality.
So putting the crazy hat on, Russia is at war with Ukraine according to all international standards would the May day parade be a legitimate target for a clandestine attack.
False flag?
Crazy hat off.
In some promising news the Austrians are talking to the Russians today in face to face talks just take a picnic or a meal deal and they should be ok.
Finland's on the way to joining NATO by the summer.
