MANPADS
The UK system relies on a high level of operator training, it's nigh on impossible to fire off the shoulder and hit anything
Defending key locations is what it's good at but the ground defended area is small but that assumes guided munitions, it may do better against what is currently being used from the air
However it can hit out to 5km IIRC and will give the helicopter pilots a lot to worry about. FGA will also hate it but it's designed to hit them head on not to chase
It was traditionally deployed with ADAS which is a great passive early warning system which I would have thought would be quite helpful as well
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I’m hoping they’re replenishing stocks in the background in case things do escalate
I'd hope that manufacturers the world over can spin up production demand - or they've been building stockpiles for a while, probably since 2014.
Maybe it’s just me but I’d much rather see reasonable debate about the issues than stuff like FuzzyWuzzy’s above going on about MANPADS/NLAWS/MLRS etc.
I am absolutely not a war-whore, and I am stridently not into military anything. However I really value the input from people with armed forces and weapons knowledge and experience here because it allows me to make sense of what I am reading, and I am also looking for hope in the situation which does help my state of mind - however futile that hope ends up being. And the actual veterans we have here often seem to be the voices of reason, honesty, restraint and compassion. I wonder why that would be...
have they got a cyber warfare division?
or a social media corps?
Same thing innit.
Seems that Putin has called for foreign volunteers to fight for him in Ukraine. That's interesting, it sort of backs up the narcissist theory (i.e. he just needs to be popular) because it would appear he can't stand the fact that people are volunteering for Ukraine but not for him,
With all the talk about Putin may not want to stop with Ukraine and expans further I can't help but remember some of my schoolboy reading of the Biggles books and in particular "Biggles sees it through". Set in Finland and the Winter War (First Soviet-Finnish War).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
A few similarities.
That or he wants to keep some quality troops back out of paranoia and has had it pointed out to him his conscripts wont really cut it and even his autocratic powers might run into some issues if too many kids come home in body bags.
Hence hiring a bunch of battle hardened "volunteers" would be a better option.
Surely pootin wouldn't compromise the containment of radioactive waste or fuel to invoke Chernobyl II? Mad people do mad things.
Reports of a Belarus false flag bombing of a village
Seems that Putin has called for foreign volunteers to fight for him in Ukraine. That’s interesting, it sort of backs up the narcissist theory
I just assumed that it was advance justification for bringing in people borrowed from his allies armies, like Syria.
Instead of what? Armchair aid workers, wannabe geo-political commentators? How are any of you who think you're having a highbrow conversation about something you also know very little about any better than those throwing their 2 pence into the mix about matters pertaining to the military aspects?
Facebook has just popped up with a request for donations for a sponsored ride from London to Kyiv. I appreciate the motives but….
What handlebar mount for a NLAW?
Who are most likely brutal bastards with even less regard for human life than most. I already dread to think the way any Ukrainian POW's are being treated, with some of these irregular and volunteers in the mix it all starts to get a bit more murky.
Hence hiring a bunch of battle hardened “volunteers” would be a better option.
There's no way GoPro haven't done an adaptor for that surely?
What handlebar mount for a NLAW?
The issue is that it’s a false narrative, NATO doesn’t force countries to join it. The sovereign state applies, usually waits a few years then gets in.
NATO membership requirements are tough for the former Soviet bloc countries
I am certain that Russia has a expansionist strategy, it regularly deploys it’s military and paramilitary forces to satellite states to maintain a sympathetic leader in situ. Examples Belarus and Kazakhstan etc
This, in my humble opinion, sums it up succinctly. Ukraine has been an independent country for around a thousand years, since Vikings arrived and settled. AFAIK, Moscow wasn’t much more than a village when Kyiv was a city!
It’s a fact that NATO doesn’t go to a State or Country and say “we want you to join”, a country has to express a desire to join, then go through an extended process afterwards, as stated above. Otherwise, I’m pretty damn sure that Finland and Sweden would have been members long before now, purely because of their geographical location, in particular Finland who fought off the Russians quite successfully about, what, a century ago? Can’t remember, but Russia had its ass handed to it on a plate, something that Putin ought to be reminded of, as much of Finland’s army were armed civilian volunteers - a parallel with Ukraine. #WinterWar
@cheburaska🇺🇦 - My heart goes out to you and your friends and family in Ukraine; having lost someone I loved suddenly almost exactly a year ago, I’ve discovered what grief really feels like, but I can’t even begin to comprehend how it must be for you! I just don’t have the words available to express my sorrow for your situation, I can really only hope that they’re safe now, and can find safety as soon as possible. My very best wishes to you and yours. 🌻❤️🇺🇦
Russia's uncle fester is currently telling the UN all about the chemical and biological weapons they've found in Ukraine. Birds being trained to spread the contagion.
Not sure how he can look at himself in the mirror at night.
Thanks CZ, and everyone else, your thoughts are appreciated. They are relatively lucky compared to some over in Ukraine. But they're certainly not in a safe place, they have no option to leave and there have been many very frightening moments and some close calls.
War is always ****.
And I apologise, not been functioning quite right recently - I must add that am very sorry for your loss CZ.
Word to that, they'd be royally bounced if they started sharing details. OSA and all that malarkey.
I’ve tried asking my mate who’s the former ambassador to NATO and the UN, and he reckons that you won’t get a squeak out of anyone close to what is happening day to day.
Back to denigrating then
because it often exposes an interest/enthusiasm for the weaponry and hardware of war rather than the victims of it.
Do you need to be? If you watch the documentary’ Winter on Fire’ it gives you a pretty good idea of what the Ukrainian people wanted after the end of the soviet era, which they were denied by their pro-Moscow corrupt regime
But you carry on with your Kremlin apologism if you like. Are you enjoying the genocide? It certainly seems that way
I'm sure it's not that simple, especially with the post-2014 regime attacking the rights of ethnic Russians in Ukraine.
The fact is that Ukraine had a working government pre-2014 and American politicians went to Ukraine to egg on what was in effect a mob coup. How would you feel about Russian or Chinese politicians appearing in Edinburgh to interfere in a Scottish independence referendum?
From another POV this is just another disaster caused by America meddling in the politics of other countries far beyond its shores.
I’m sure it’s not that simple, especially with the post-2014 regime attacking the rights of ethnic Russians in Ukraine.
Be genuinely interested in a source for that to see the "other" side of the debate.
If you really want my view then yeah I do have a bit of a problem with armchair generals, because it often exposes an interest/enthusiasm for the weaponry and hardware of war rather than the victims of it. Talk of weapons and miltary tactics only serves to dehumanise the real impact of war and reduces it to a something akin to a game. IMO we should leave the macho military talk to the people doing the fighting.
I have given some input on military aspects on this thread, because I have some (admittedly dated) professional knowledge. As have others, who've stated their credentials when challenged. I do so because it's what I know about, so feel it may be useful to some. It's not the only aspect but it is a significant one which may have a big impact on the duration/outcome. I feel it is valid to talk about it, amongst the many other important aspects, without fixating on it.
Despite my technical knowledge, I have a deep and personal understanding of the terminal effects of military munitions through personal experience. Trust me, it sometimes keeps me awake at night. The insinuation that I think it's a game, do it to be macho or dehumanise people, or get some kind of sick thrill out of it is very, very offensive.
How would you feel about Russian or Chinese politicians appearing in Edinburgh to interfere in a Scottish independence referendum?
Umm, I'm sure I have no idea what it's like for foreign powers to interfere in referendums...
thanks for your contributions blokeuptheroad, they are always interesting and useful.
I think anti-war views are very welcome by EVERYONE here.
Haven't seen a single person on this thread of more than 4,000 posts express support or enjoyment of war.
Umm, I’m sure I have no idea what it’s like for foreign powers to interfere in referendums…
We're still pushing what amounts more or less to a myth even after the Trump/Steele dossier was debunked as completely fake?
Yes before 2014 and 2004 Ukraine was a state operating within the sphere of Russian economic and military influence. It wasn’t fully independent, but which countries are?
It was an independent sovereign state, as independent of Russia as Egypt is of Turkey. Could you explain why you think this wasn't so?
Also interesting that you paint 2004 as a negative, the actual election winner was suspected of being poisoned by Russia and the eventual loser was the same guy that was overthrown, again, in 2013. The people of Ukraine clearly have no time for Viktor Yanukovych and his corruption and this is now being used as some sort of victim blaming.
We’re still pushing what amounts more or less to a myth even after the Trump/Steele dossier was debunked as completely fake?
Er, no. I even had to look up what the Trump Steele dossier was.
We may have been thinking about other events to you.
"Not sure how he can look at himself in the mirror at night."
Vampires cast no reflection rememner?
because it often exposes an interest/enthusiasm for the weaponry and hardware of war rather than the victims of it.
If you understand the weaponry, you understand the effects of it, you understand what it can do and what it can't do. By understanding what vehicles and kit is in say; the convoy headed to Kyiv you get a greater understanding about why it's not being targeted by the Ukrainians, if you understand the difference between a T80 and a T90 it tells you something about the Russian forces currently deployed in the south. If you don't understand any of this I don't think you get a full picture of what's going on.
Earlier Biden said that there would be serious consequences if Russia uses chemical weapons. The Russian guy on the UN security council is creating a false flag story to set up an excuse to deploy chemical weapons.
It's a horribly grim situation but where does NATO go if/when they do use them? What other sanctions are available or is this the escalation point?
Seems to me that thread was custom-designed for endless pedantic arguments.
Cheeky sod, it was designed to help me bore friends and family to death with useless but (to me) interesting facts.😁
On a more serious point, I personally do want to know about the technical aspects of the tools of war being used. I don't get kicks from seeing them used but it's another aspect of the invasion that I know I want to know about rather than be clueless.
I most definitely know it's not a game, I've never been reduced to tears over a game.
My whole family both sides are all current/former mil and we do not really talk about UKR. Waste of time. Till it shows up on our doorstep maybe we will give a sh1t.
I see the government at suggesting that the public offer to take in refugees
Whilst I can bet my bottom dollar that none of the Tory elite will be offering up their second or third homes free of charge, it’s something I think we have a moral duty to consider if we can
I live on my own with 3 free rooms. Half of me thinks I should absolutely let some one stay in one of them if they are fleeing that xxxx putin. But tbh, sharing my house with a random for 6 months does not appeal in the slightest. Is anyone else going to consider this?
I think they should all be given Priti Patel's address, or Liz Truss's. They can then sort out who created this shit show
But tbh, sharing my house with a random for 6 months does not appeal in the slightest. Is anyone else going to consider this?
Me and Mrs Bloke have talked about this. We have 2 empty bedrooms. It would depend on how long for and a few other things, but we came to the conclusion that we would very seriously consider it.
Very proud of Jnr today. They have a new very nervous and scared boy starting in class this week, a Ukrainian war immigrant. He speaks no English, and understanding enough about the geographies and situation Jnr has taken him under his wing at school and has introduced him to his friend Patrik. Patrik is Polish, and is able to translate enough so their new friend can communicate and understand what's going on.
Its a tiny but lovely thing to do.
We've already talked about letting someone use the spare bedroom. We have Slovak friends with family very close to the border so it feels very "personal" already.
But tbh, sharing my house with a random for 6 months does not appeal in the slightest. Is anyone else going to consider this?
I have an occasionally spare bedroom so would definitely consider it.
But tbh, sharing my house with a random for 6 months does not appeal in the slightest
I would.
Its a tiny but lovely thing to do.
That just made it very dusty here. Huge CHAPEAU to your jnr @Kryton57
I see the government at suggesting that the public offer to take in refugees
It would help if that fit faced fat arsed evil POS could actually let some in.
*I've been in a 24hours news blackout so don't know if Ukrainian's have started arriving yet?
The fact is that Ukraine had a working government pre-2014 and American politicians went to Ukraine to egg on what was in effect a mob coup.
Well if it was American interference the Ukranian people seem to have been happy with the opportunity given to them. Let's not forget that there have since been free presidential and parliamentary elections resulting in a landslide for Zelensky and his party.
