[Closed] UKIP's 'Common Sense' bus hits Portsmouth Railway Station.

causing folk to be called racist if they question immigration

Who does this? (I mean in reality now, rather than your likely answer of "...bloody lefties everywhere...")

homophobes if they criticise gays

Criticise gays for what? Being gay? Or wearing the wrong colour shoes with that suit?

Naive not to think that mic wasn't deliberately left on Brown.. The knives were out for him at the time.

What was wrong with what he said anyway? (Other than it being a bit inappropriate for the PM to call someone a "bigot", he was correct. She was (and I presume, still is) a bigot.

deadlydarcy - Member

Who does this? (What you need a list, look up there how many times has the word racist appeared in this thread?..")

homophobes if they criticise gays
Criticise gays for what? Being gay? Or shagging in the nice clean sheets of your Christian B&B, then suing you for complaining..

She was (and I presume, still is) a bigot. So how would you feel if your mum got called a bigot on National TV by the prime minister, lots of people are bigots according to the left. They don't think they are, they are just simple, or badly educated, or dare I even say it thick? Which as we have proved earlier on here is a crime which prevents you qualifying for a vote according to the super intelligencia lefties..

 

derekfish - Member

or dare I even say it thick? Which as we have proved earlier on here is a crime which prevents you qualifying for a vote

You claimed that earlier, I asked you when anyone had said that, you ignored it. Asking again.

Only in UKIPs case people are fed up having to mind their p's and q's for fear of whatever, political correctness, causing folk to be called racist if they question immigration, homophobes if they criticise gays, on top of all the other crap, i

I don't really give a shit about or feel obliged to defend the rights of and treat well, those who want to limit the freedom of other people such as homosexuals. You don't believe in freedom of any sort, what you prioritise is your prejudices and the only political concept you care for is mob rule. The only time you care about freedom is when it's your freedom to trample on the individual freedoms of others.

National TV by the prime minister, lots of people are bigots according to the left. They don't think they are, they are just simple, or badly educated, or dare I even say it thick?

Being thick and being bigoted is effectively the same thing seeing as they are so closely linked.

What you need a list, look up there how many times has the word racist appeared in this thread?

Please, if you must. Or can you not back up your assertion?

Or shagging in the nice clean sheets of your Christian B&B, then suing you for complaining..

You've just made this up. I'd reckon on this not being the first thing you've made up on the thread.

So how would you feel if your mum got called a bigot on National TV by the prime minister

Did you miss the bit where I said it was inappropriate? If my mum had said that to the Taoiseach, I'd tell her not to be such a bigoted woman. In fact, she says stuff like it all the time. Funnily enough, she reads the Irish Daily Mail. Lord knows, I love her dearly, but she is an old bigot at times, as are many of her generation. But she's old now and she's never going to change. It's funny really, because it was down to her that I'm such a leftie really.

Which as we have proved earlier on here is a crime which prevents you qualifying for a vote according to the super intelligencia leftys..

Look, I'm all up for sensible discussion, but if you're going to keep making stuff up like this, we're never going to get anywhere.

Northwind - Member
derekfish - Member
or dare I even say it thick? Which as we have proved earlier on here is a crime which prevents you qualifying for a vote

You claimed that earlier, I asked you when anyone had said that, you ignored it. Asking again.

It's all over the thread, being right wing means your thick, ergo we'd rather you didn't vote because your wrong, er because you're thick. You're thick because you disagree with us, we're intelligent you're not.

So if you don't want to appear thick, vote for us.. Standard leftie dogma.

Somebody back there called me thick or stupid or whatever even though i've explained my reasoning, but there is no reasoning with leftish dogma, never has been, they're beyond help, ask Michael Foot.

being right wing means your thick

Well, studies have shown it. Nothing we can do about that, except as a leftie, I'd ensure you were never left behind at school, and that you'd get a medal whatever your performance.

we'd rather you didn't vote because your wrong

Well, that'd be NW [i]and[/i] me asking you now. Where has someone said you shouldn't be able to vote because you're not intelligent? (apart from any piss-taking on the thread obvs)

So how would you feel if your mum got called a bigot on National TV by the prime minister

I would be rather embarrassed by her bigoted comments.

How would you feel about your mum having a bigoted rant at the prime minister on TV?

Standard leftie dogma.

I've heard lots of dogma over the years, from either side of the argument, but I've never heard this. Which is unusual, given that you say it's "standard". Are you making stuff up [i]again[/i]?

derekfish: I notice nobodies interviewing Muslims on their position re Gay Marriage for instance...

I read things like this, and then I have a look...

I found [url= http://www.newstatesman.com/mehdi-hasan/2013/05/muslim-i-struggle-idea-homosexuality-i-oppose-homophobia ]this article[/url] in New Statesman magazine, written by a muslim, where he writes about his views on homosexuality.

In that column, he mentions an article from in the Guardian. I found it: [url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality ]Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll[/url].

So, a 'lefty' newspaper ran a fairly clearly headlined article on Muslim views on homosexuality.

I then searched the Guardian website for "gay muslim", which found a huge list of articles including "[url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jan/16/derby-muslim-gay-hate-crime-charge ]Derby Muslim denies gay hate crime charge[/url]". A search for his name finds the articles about his trial and imprisonment.

So it turns out there's quite a lot in the mainstream media about Muslims and their position on gay marriage.

deadlydarcy - Member
Standard leftie dogma.
I've heard lots of dogma over the years, from either side of the argument, but I've never heard this. Which is unusual, given that you say it's "standard". Are you making stuff up again?

Don't do this because you'll appear to be that..

Lefties like nothing more than to reach for the intellectual high ground, they're very good at it, they're also very good at denigrating the right as thick, as you can see quite plainly above.

It's a marketing, spin technique, like the Jedi Mind trick, only a very few of us can resist it. 😉

miketually - Member
derekfish: I notice nobodies interviewing Muslims on their position re Gay Marriage for instance...
I read things like this, and then I have a look...

I found this article in New Statesman magazine, written by a muslim, where he writes about his views on homosexuality.

In that column, he mentions an article from in the Guardian. I found it: Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll.

So, a 'lefty' newspaper ran a fairly clearly headlined article on Muslim views on homosexuality.

I then searched the Guardian website for "gay muslim", which found a huge list of articles including "Derby Muslim denies gay hate crime charge". A search for his name finds the articles about his trial and imprisonment.

So it turns out there's quite a lot in the mainstream media about Muslims and their position on gay marriage.

Oh, politics not mentioned? I wonder what would have happened if they'd got the purple sign outside the mosque.

chewkw - Member
I wonder if individuals are able to express their own views anymore good or bad?

I am sure there are nutters in all the parties.

you are, just don't be surprised when you get called out for being an idiot.

So which political party were they linked to then?
Oh, politics not mentioned? I wonder what would have happened if they'd got the purple sign outside the mosque.

The main prominent Muslim politician I know off the top of my head is Baroness Warsi. Her views on gay marriage are reported in [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10514629/Baroness-Warsis-concern-over-effect-of-gay-marriage-laws-on-religious-groups.html ]this article[/url] which also mentions remarks she made on the subject as a Conservative candidate in the 2005 general election.

Edit: articles from [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/apr/27/uk.conservatives1 ]2005[/url] and [url= http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2007/07/11/homophobic-leaflet-used-again-by-tory-candidate/ ]2007[/url]

Edit2: And [url= http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/labour-and-lib-dem-mps-who-voted-against-gay-marriage-full-list ]here[/url]'s a list of Labour and Lib Dem MPs who voted against gay marriage, published on a major news magazine's website. I'm sure a bit of Googling would find some Muslim politicians having their views on gay marriage reported.

derekfish - Member

It's all over the thread, being right wing means your thick, ergo we'd rather you didn't vote because your wrong, er because you're thick.

That's not remotely what you claimed. You know, when you have to resort to making things up, your argument's probably not that good.

I'd rather uninformed people didn't vote tbh- no representation without information- I think if you're going to cast a vote you have a responsibility to know what you're voting for, this stuff's important. But that's a million miles from preventing people from voting, as you claimed.

The main prominent Muslim politician I know off the top of my head is Baroness Warsi. Her views on gay marriage are reported in this article which also mentions remarks she made on the subject as a Conservative candidate in the 2005 general election.

Yes but to be fair she is probably part of Derek's lefty conspiracy. So I'm afraid you lose.

The main prominent Muslim politician I know off the top of my head is Baroness Warsi. Her views on gay marriage are reported in this article which also mentions remarks she made on the subject as a Conservative candidate in the 2005 general election.

Yes but to be fair she is probably part of Derek's lefty conspiracy. So I'm afraid you lose.

It's getting pretty powerful this lefty conspiracy. At least it's inclusive in letting Tory Muslim baronesses in 🙂

[i]being right wing means your thick[/i]

Well, studies have shown it. Nothing we can do about that, except as a leftie, I'd ensure you were never left behind at school, and that you'd get a medal whatever your performance.

Studies haven't shown anything of the sort, certainly not the laughable attempts at science quoted earlier in this thread. Here's my "proof" of why right wing people are more intelligent.

People who are right wing tend to vote Conservative. Conservative voters tend to be wealthier. People with money are generally more intelligent than people without (yes, there are exceptions I know). Ergo people with right wing views are more intelligent than those with left wing views.

I reckon that's about as scientific a study as some of those other ones.

I reckon that's about as scientific a study as some of those other ones.

Are you a right-winger?

This thread is great. Derek, proving what the majority of people think of UKIP and it's members is actually true, by trying to argue they're not. Classic.

chestrockwell - Member
This thread is great. Derek, proving what the minority of people think of UKIP and it's members is actually true, by trying to argue they're not. Classic.

I think you'll find the majority is about to give y'all a rude awakening - hence lefty panic 😆

All those years of the liberal leftish elite rubbing the noses of the right into multiculturalism, political correctness, not to mention EU corruption , 'uman rights lawyers, and the general mis management of just about everything, coming home to roost and if you're a true right winger, Cameron counts as part of that left wing.

That's not saying I want any part of it, it's just a commentary on the shape of things to come and not much anyone here can do about it, which I have found some amusement in pointing out.

It has been a good thread, nice to see the boys on their back foot for a change..

Really, you think we are on our back foot when confronted by your arguments Derek?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

All those years of the liberal leftish elite rubbing the noses of the right into multiculturalism, political correctness, not to mention EU corruption , 'uman rights lawyers,

Let me tell you this, never ever go to a country about which you have heard something like this: "Hey, I heard in the news that [insert country here] has problems with human rights". If you do go there it is likely that you will be killed for crimes committed against human intellect.

I reckon that's about as scientific a study as some of those other ones.

We can all see why you would prefer this to not be the case but you cannot actually argue against facts just because you do not like them.

If it is any help I would be annoyed if it showed that left wing folk were the numbnuts.

I didn't think there was any relationship between IQ and net wealth, just a mild correlation with income.

....and if you're a true right winger, Cameron counts as part of that left wing.

You sound more like a republican tea party fruitcake every time you post.

Presumably US president Obama is a Marxist Muslim ?

[url= http://www.commieblaster.com/obama/ ]
Proof Obama's a: Communist / Socialist - Muslim - Russian Agent -
Serial Liar - Jew Hater - Racist - Narcissist - Gay - Soros Puppet - Evil Man[/url]

[img] [/img]

I confused wealth and income [ I am not an economist] your right
Apologies.

I knew it was only mild but thought it best to not get sidetracked arguing about that
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

jaaaaaaaaaam - Member

chewkw - Member
I wonder if individuals are able to express their own views anymore good or bad?

I am sure there are nutters in all the parties.

you are, just don't be surprised when you get called out for being an idiot.

If I can express my individual viewpoints freely then you can label me whatever you wish but just don't tell me your views are the right ones.

🙄

I adhere to evidence based everything, so yes I will tell you which views are technically...the right one. 😈 ....when I can. However, you can put up a half decent argument when you aren't going through a bout of misanthropy Chewkw ....and you don't resort to your "zombie maggots" rants.

Also, graphs! Finally we hazzz graphsss. Every thread needs graphs.

chewkw - Member

If I can express my individual viewpoints freely then you can label me whatever you wish but just don't tell me your views are the right ones.

I know it's offensive to some people but you do realise your view really might be wrong?

It is cherry picking I'll admit, but I genuinely think it has a degree of validity. Equally though the arguments that show the opposite will cherry pick as well. These sorts of surveys all tend to find the result that the people carrying them out are looking for. All I was doing was being a bit cheeky and presenting the case for the other side. Mind you, the more I started to think about it the more I began to think it was probably true.

It all comes down to the size of subsets really. And that is something I doubt it is possible to calculate accurately. Therefore it comes down to perception. Where, I will grant you, left wingers come across as being more intelligent is that they tend to be more vocal, in great numbers, in the media, on social media and in other areas of public life. This is because they tend to be more prone to protest, as well as being more ideologically driven. Or possibly idealistically driven.

Many left wing people I know tend, more than the right wing ones, to want to make the world a better place. Right wing people tend to be more pragmatic. In that sense I admire many people with left wing views. However I would argue with them over whether the policies they believe in would actually achieve the aims they aspire to.

Yes, a sane right winger! Good post.

However, with the rise of the tea party types I'm not really sure that the left is more ideologically driven than the right. As a mass movement, the left seems to be dead in the uk. Whilst the right seems to be more willing to engage in delusional thinking, such as the denial of good scientific work (climate change amongst many others).

Tom_W1987 - Member

[b]I adhere to evidence based everything[/b], so yes I will tell you which views are technically...the right one. ....when I can. However, you can put up a half decent argument when you aren't going through a bout of misanthropy Chewkw ....and you don't resort to your "zombie maggots" rants.

Also, graphs! Finally we hazzz graphsss. Every thread needs graphs.

Sometimes an argument is just an argument that is very difficult to explain or to convince based on gut feeling. Rightly or wrongly those are individual freedom of opinion and I am not here to convince. Zombie maggots are just that nothing more or less and we see them everyday.

Half decent arguments? All of us are arguing with half decent arguments and are you considering your arguments perfect? 😆

[b][Tannoy][/b] Tom_W1987 has proclaimed to be the great oracle so all you zombie maggots bow to his feet! All hail the evidence based wisdom of Tom_W1987. How dare all of you zombie maggots express opinions without evidence based wisdom of Tom_W1987! [b][Tannoy][/b] 😈

Northwind - Member

chewkw - Member

If I can express my individual viewpoints freely then you can label me whatever you wish but just don't tell me your views are the right ones.

I know it's offensive to some people but you do realise your view really might be wrong?

Let me hear your wisdom ... don't need evidence based wisdom if that helps. Convince me you are right. 😆

I was more meaning this country, though that point about the Tea Party is a good one. Leaving aside however the extremes of right and left in this country who are very much in the minority (I'm meaning the likes of the BNP and the Communists) I'd still argue the left wing tends to be more ideologically driven. Or rather the ones outside of party politics are. It is fair to say that Mrs T was very ideologically driven, though so were many of her opponents at the time.

What I was trying to put across is that people on the left tend to be more willing to put their views forward on forums such as this and other types of media. You see something similar up here in Scotland with the referendum where the majority are still No voters, but the Yes campaigners are far more vocal. That's what I was getting at in my point about the perception of numbers. I suspect that many of the left wing who take to social media are the smart ones, while the right wing ones who crop up are often the idiots , trolls or attention seekers. Overall though I think the true numbers are different. Just my opinion of course.

The climate change thing isn't, I suspect, denied by many folk on the right. What they tend to disagree on is whether it is man made climate change and whether any steps we take in this country will actually do any good when China and India are industrialising at such a rate. That's a whole other debate though and I'm off to bed now. I've enjoyed the debating, but sleep calls.

What I was trying to put across is that people on the left tend to be more willing to put their views forward on forums such as this and other types of media.

I think you've missed the point. People who are willing to discuss things tend to end up more left-wing, it's not the other way round as you seem to be suggesting.

And simplistic right-wing attitudes such as racism, bigotry, lack of empathy, etc, tend to be the result of ignorance and not thinking things through, it can be reversed if the individual starts to engage in discussions.

[Tannoy] Tom_W1987 has proclaimed to be the great oracle so all you zombie maggots bow to his feet! All hail the evidence based wisdom of Tom_W1987. How dare all of you zombie maggots express opinions without evidence based wisdom of Tom_W1987! [Tannoy]

Damn right!

I jest. You're alright Chewkw.

The climate change thing isn't, I suspect, denied by many folk on the right.

I beg to differ. The link earlier to that tea-party "obama is a communist" website really highlights the point (if it isn't satire)! Pragmatism doesn't appear to me to be a conservative strong point, that would involve being pragmatic and listening to minority views such as the gay rights lobby.

Anyway neither labour, the tories or ukip represent my views - which are closer to that of a slightly left wing libertarian.

I think you'll find the majority is about to give y'all a rude awakening - hence lefty panic

as a one time scientist im gonna go ahead and put my opinion out there, and you quote me on it:

the ukips are a bunch of idiot bitches

konabunny - Member

Wow, that's amazing - UKIP supporters are the majority now!

Maybe not majority (depending on definition), but perhaps largest group.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/30/ukip-nigel-farage-top-polls-european-elections

Newsflash: lots of people across Europe are unhappy with the EU, and lots of them aren't bigotted BNP types.

Maybe not majority (depending on definition)

I thought that majority in a political context was very clearly defined ie, "more than half".

Is there another definition then ?

Newsflash: lots of people across Europe are unhappy with the EU, and lots of them aren't bigotted BNP types.

I wish UKIP would debate the relative merits of being in or out of Europe, rather than banging on about immigration.

In the leaflet I got it said we were Germany and France's biggest customer and we'd continue to be if we left Europe. But, as I understand it, the point of us being in Europe is to sell things [i]into[/i] the rest of Europe and being outside would make that harder.

Interesting post by kennyP, traditionally right and left could be split between the haves and have nots, the have nots are then split by being comforted by either religion (easier for the camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven)or political ideology, hence the first thing the left needed to do was remove religion from the equation to boost their power base.

As to the intelligence level of either side, you tend to find, other than the inherited wealth, that the rich are single minded in the accumulation of wealth, rather than intelligent per se (having spent a lifetime wondering why I've never become truly rich.) I also feel that left wing views are the province of the young and that experience garnered over the years brings on cynicism.

But my point remains true, in actual fact the left have been just as disenfranchised in recent years as the right by the current batch of consensual career politicians on all sides, and it is they rather than folk like me you can blame for the rise of UKIP, I'm just joining in the protest like everyone else who appears to have lost their reason. Maybe driven by a smidgin of anti EU angst derived from personal bitterness, but even when it comes to it, where that cross goes might still switch to the green box on the day, a pity they can't give up hugging those trees long enough to get organised, they could be what the moderate progressive left are looking for and I'd be more than up for that.

I think you've missed the point. People who are willing to discuss things tend to end up more left-wing, it's not the other way round as you seem to be suggesting.

And simplistic right-wing attitudes such as racism, bigotry, lack of empathy, etc, tend to be the result of ignorance and not thinking things through, it can be reversed if the individual starts to engage in discussions.

Disagree with the first part.
IMO, socialism requires co-operation and engagement by all. it's about the collective - collective responsibility and collective action. The first stage of that is communication.
More right wing ideology promotes the individual's rights to go about their business, especially economic, often in private. some might say "unhindered".
Therefore, to me, it's completely natural that left wingers are more vocal. Their ideology requires more involvement of others.

Second part describing " [i]racism, bigotry, lack of empathy[/i] ", as "[i]simplistic right-wing attitudes[/i]" lacks the usual class.

You are confusing conservatism with libertarianism. Neither ukip nor the tories are libertarian. Neither are their voters.

Sorry, but I'm not.
Who mentioned conservatism?

Maybe not majority (depending on definition), but perhaps largest group.