MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Governments with massive majorities literally quake in fear when faced with an internet petition.
What has size of majority got to do with it? Are you seriously suggesting that governments with massive majorities don't care about internet petitions/public opinion but governments with tiny majorities do? That will explain why the last Tory government was so unbothered with how unpopular they were! 😂
Sir Keir Starmer is currently shitting himself because of the unprecedented collapse of support for a Labour government, according to a recent opinion poll he is one of the most unpopular leaders in the Western world. Yesterday your mate Andy Burnham was openly gunning for him.
Having a "massive majority" actually puts Starmer in a more precarious position. The reason that over a hundred Labour MPs signed a letter yesterday urging that the government changes its policy on the child benefit cap, and Andy Burnham did nothing to quell talk of his leadership ambitions, is precisely because a government with a massive majority is stable.
If the government barely had a majority then Labour politicians would be extremely reluctant to rock the boat, create instability, and trigger the possibility of an early general election.
And on the question of compulsory ID cards yes of course the government cares about public opinion despite its massive majority, hence the gimmick about being able to report missed bin collections and potholes in your road. It's clearly the sweetener for an otherwise unpopular policy.
Exactly "illegal workers" is just double speak for immigrants, it is just more racism from Starmer with a veneer of deniability for the chattering classes. Another dead cat for his right wing economic failures.
Do you realise that you are the leading light of the chattering class of STW...
Also, is it actually going to be called a 'BritCard'?
That is the intention. It is to emphasis the fact that illegal foreigners won't be allowed to have one.
Or report missed bin collections.
That should win over a few Reform voters, maybe. And it makes Nigel Farage's opposition to it sound a bit unpatriotic.
I predict it'll be known as the ShitCard within a week of implementation. If it's ever implemented.
I mean it's fair enough to not want one of these things, or to think that on balance it's not a great idea. But given these things are standard across most european nations, the hyberbolic wailing thats happening seems especially ridiculous.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1971506935234273703
I feel warmly reassured by the last sentence.
I wonder how Nigel Farage will respond to Sir Keir Starmer's latest strike at his base? A couple of days ago it was about removing the settled status of foreigners, Farage must surely be running out of ammunition against the wily ol' Starmer?
Well there are around 50 million people in the UK over 18 soooooo....0.5% don't want it so far. Not that I'm massively for it mind you but sometimes when people quote these petitions as being useless (which they mainly are) this is generally because.
738,393 now so approx 1.5%.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet but my biggest concern with digital ID is how much cross-linking of data there is between phone apps. They all feed data from one another.
How long before Facebook, Insta, X and your health apps require permission to access your digital ID (hidden in T&Cs that we all click accept) cross pollinating personal data.
Right, I guess the next step will be to link it to the adult verification thing, then they can very easily tie your twitter posts, porn viewing habits, reddit subs etc back to you. Makes mass surveillance trivial.
And on the question of compulsory ID cards yes of course the government cares about public opinion despite its massive majority, hence the gimmick about being able to report missed bin collections and potholes in your road. It's clearly the sweetener for an otherwise unpopular policy.
From one of the first posts on the subject….
The Times is running a poll on it and 8,000 votes in and it’s 80% in favour
But, yeah…. it’s not an internet petition, which we all know is the real nuclear option of democratic decision making.
I’m sure that like everything nowadays, it’s been focus-grouped to within an inch of its life
Somewhat hilariously, when asked for a comment on the subject, Kemi Badanoch said “there are arguments for and against”
Is it related to the OneGov account? The thing they try to force you to create an account for, and can only verify your identity using the OneGov phone app? Tried to renew my driving license, and leads to this. Unfortunately the app told me there were problems signing me in, before I'd even entered any sign in details. Tried another way. Couldn't verify security questions to ask me didn't even get to the stage where I gave them answers. Went to the Post Office in the end. Done.
edit: the only good thing about it: it gave the choice of using TXT msgs or an authenticator app, unlike universal credit which has me standing out in the middle of the road trying to get signal once a week.
Somewhat hilariously, when asked for a comment on the subject, Kemi Badanoch said “there are arguments for and against”
I must be lacking in 6th form humour, what's 'hilarious' about that?
There aren't arguments for and against?
Double post for some reason
Here is the fuller comment by Kemi Badenoch, it sounds remarkably sensible considering who is saying it.
https://twitter.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1971465563781116253
There are arguments for and against digital ID eg many people already use digital identity for banking and online services. We’re certainly not opposed to that. But mandating ID is a different matter altogether.
Right, I guess the next step will be to link it to the adult verification thing, then they can very easily tie your twitter posts, porn viewing habits, reddit subs etc back to you. Makes mass surveillance trivial.
And then pass on a list of people borrowing Nineteen Eighty Four from the public library to the HMRC so they can investigate their affairs in detail.
Ah… so the whole thing is a distraction to shift the gaze of the nation away from… *checks notes* … ‘shady group’ Labour Together?
Righto.
Is it related to the OneGov account?
Yup. Your problem getting verified is what needs addressing. And you'd hope that is exactly what this is for.
Of course it's being sold as some kind of defence against immigrants... isn't everything now? Depressing.
A part from being able to log my missed bins, which is a council thing not a government thing.
Genuine Question
What difference is this to my GB Passport, I use my passport for ID verification?
What difference is this to my GB Passport, I use my passport for ID verification?
It is not compulsory and also it is not digital.
You shouldn't need a passport if you never cross borders. Millions of people in the UK don't have a passport.
You shouldn't need a driving license if you never drive. Millions of people in the UK don't drive.
That we treat these document as if they are ID... and have so many requirements for people to prove their ID... suggests there is a hole that needs filling. See the OneGov problem above.... verifying your account without passport, driving license or residents permit is currently non-trivial. Building out from your NI number makes sense for tax etc... but if they start requiring it for services that could be damaging for many of those who most need access to services.
Can you imagine how the official announcement for this digi-ID has panned out?
Yes - in the Telegraph behind a pay wall.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/25/the-left-ignored-immigration-fears-for-too-long/
You can't make this shit up.
"Immigration fears."
Again - blowing everything that Libs thought they were voting for to smithereens.
There's absolutely zero and I mean zero chance of this halting the rise of the populist right.
Labour's Poll tax in real-time.
Your problem getting verified is what needs addressing.
Their motto must be roll out first, test later.
Again - blowing everything that Libs thought they were voting for to smithereens.
Did you miss 2016?
Currently listening to the PM going on about "control of our borders"... it's completely the wrong focus for the UK, for lots of reasons, but it is totally dominating politics, and "Libs" have no way of changing that. Starmer can't ignore it... not that I think his approach will work either. It will feed "immigration fears", not reduce them. But what's the alternative? Tell people they are wrong to focus on immigrants and do nothing to address their fears? Refuse to meet them part way? No pandering to the ignorant? As what could be called a "Lib", that's what I'd do... but does Starmer really have that option?
Again - blowing everything that Libs thought they were voting for to smithereens.
Did you miss 2016?
Aren't we here now?
It just needs to be said that no matter what Starmer comes up with there are some people that just agree with everything even if it invalidates their arguments.
Not buying it Kelvin.
Has putting all those flags on lampposts not fixed everything?
Has putting all those flags on lampposts not fixed everything?
I've not seen Starmer putting them on lamp-posts but he's definitely been seen putting double flags up at every official announcement in recent history.
Has putting all those flags on lampposts not fixed everything?
Typical sneering lefty.
The leader of your party understands the value of patriotism and proudly flying the union flag.
He added: “I am the leader of the Labour Party who put the Union Jack on our Labour Party membership cards. I always sit in front of the Union Jack. I’ve been doing it for years, and it attracted a lot of comment when I started doing it.”
I think that it must be sitting in front of the union jack which is the reason behind Sir Keir Starmer's great policy decisions for the good of Great Britain. You can't go far wrong when you have that level of patriotism.
Can you imagine how the official announcement for this digi-ID has panned out?
Yes - in the Telegraph behind a pay wall.
Top tip: c&p URL and as it's loading press esc, may have to do this several times. Unfortunately these days there's no way to read the comments.
Top tip: c&p URL and as it's loading press esc, may have to do this several times. Unfortunately these days there's no way to read the comments.
This is easier
(If you close the dialogue box at the top you get better contrast)
It just needs to be said that no matter what Starmer comes up with there are some people that just agree with everything even if it invalidates their arguments.
I don't know anyone like that, not even our local Labour MP and councillors. Who are these people that "agree with everything" that Starmer does or says?
Mkay…
Its not really a difficult concept to understand that different people will object to it for different reasons or indeed people could consider that several different negative outcomes are possible.
For me it would be a toss up whether they **** it up entirely by giving it to Capita or **** us over entirely by giving it to Palantir.
Given Starmers aping of the tories either is possible.
Since you are being the grown up in the room though feel free to explain the benefits of the glorious leaders idea.
But replace the word passport with ID card and some folks lose their minds
No because people understand the difference between the two. The "card" isnt the problem its the background data linking which is eg if you look at the Blairite proposal it was basically a proposal to join together multiple disparate databases to provide one nice cohesive whole. As someone else mentions on the thread you then get to the logical extension of "prove your age" using it and now you are in surveillance heaven.
Of course you can try to join all the data up by other means eg thats basically Palantirs business model but its hard and messy.
Absolutely no issue with a digital ID, but you know it will be a fark up and some company will make a fortune for a crap app.
The "card" isnt the problem its the background data linking which is
And yet when someone suggests that there should be a single record system for your healthcare, everyone's all for it.
Frankly, anyone using SM in 2025 to complain about their personal information being held by shady 3rd parties is a bit late to the gangplank
An interesting bit of research into something which baffles me to an extent.
But the Lib Dems’ vote share has been effectively immobile: the party won 13% of the British vote in 2024, and our latest voting intention figures have them at 14%.
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53039-why-wont-people-vote-liberal-democrat
The legacy of the coalition years proves to bother Labour (26%) and Green voters (29%) more than the wider public – indeed, this the second most common reason given among Greens, after not knowing enough about the party (35%).
The irony is that pre coalition days one of the greatest criticism levelled at the LibDems was their lack of experience in national government.
Holding ministerial positions should have remedied that, unfortunately thanks to Nick Clegg it simply confirmed that they weren't much different to the Tories.
It just needs to be said that no matter what Starmer comes up with there are some people that just disagree agree with everything even if it invalidates their arguments.
Just for balance 😉
And yet when someone suggests that there should be a single record system for your healthcare, everyone's all for it.
Not sure where to start with this. I mean we could do the obvious one that actually a lot of people arent in favour of it. Most people with a clue would want a common standard vs a single record system. It gives far better robustness and controls around access to that data.
Secondly healthcare is a single domain.
Thirdly companies, like Palantir, accessing healthcare records is already raising red flags since it is a very problematic domain to give companies owned by anti democratic people access to.
It just needs to be said that no matter what Starmer comes up with there are some people that just disagree agree with everything even if it invalidates their arguments.
Just for balance 😉
Well it might be for balance but it is false. Those on here who constantly criticise Starmer and the direction he is going are perfectly happy to agree with him when he makes a decision they agree with.
EG this comment by rone (outspoken critic of Starmer) on the previous page of this thread.
Half of us having been banging on for years about fixing material conditions - way before Labour came to be in 2024. But it's only now Labour (in the face of terrible polling and public discourse) have come to the conclusion that you need to spend some money in communities with their version of levelling up.
The other half have been going on about black-holes and balancing budgets. Good luck with that (see Argentina.) But as we've explained that ignorance leads to Brexit type reactions and crime increases.
Well it does appear, probably a little to late but welcome. Starmer is about to put the money in.
In contrast people like yourself and binners are never prepared to criticise Starmer, whatever he says or does. According to you two he is the first politician in history to be right about everything.
Irrespective of the pros and cons of an ID system, I think the issue is that after a year of inaction and misteps, after their support has collapsed and Reform look to be on the brink of victory, and after the PLP itself has finally seen what's staring them in the face, the best Starmer and his genius advisors can come up with is a digital ID card. Do they seriously believe the problem all their ex-supporters are most annoyed about is people not having a govt ID card? It's laughable... Frank Spencer government.
I know that's a satire site, but I suspect it will eventually link to everything you do - banking, medical, shopping, online activity, etc etc - which is my main issue with it. That and how safely the data will be protected and/or potentially sold.
lack of ID cards is certainly a factor in making the UK attractive for migrants as its much easier for them to work than in other countries.
However I am still against them in principle
How does an ID card stop someone who is working illegally?
And of course if Farage really is against them then he will just get rid of them (apart from the fact they probably won't be implemented by then after technical and legal issues and going 10 times over budget)
- How can Reform be on the brink of victory when the current government doesn't have to call a general election until August 2029
- How can Reform be on the brink of victory when the current government doesn't have to call a general election until August 2029
Yeah you're right, no need to panic. There's plenty of time to sort it out, lets just keep calm and carry on. 🙄
It's like the brexit campaign repeating itself...
How does an ID card stop someone who is working illegally?
It doesn't change anything for people who want to or have to work illegally.
It makes things much more difficult for people who want to move to the UK to work legally.
How does an ID card stop someone who is working illegally?
Because it makes it harder to do as you can be made to show your ID card. Its certainly thought of as a pull factor
One huge flaw with the plan is that it will be stored on Smartphones - what about those who don't have one? I will get rid of mine before I install and ID card on it
We must also worry about how these cards will be used by future governments.
The government announcement is suspiciously vague on how it will stop illegal working. it explicitly says you won't have to produce it on demand, so I can get work illegally delivering pizza just like today.
I can see how it puts taxpayer cash into the pockets of Palantir and Accenture though.
How does an ID card stop someone who is working illegally?
That's not what it is really for, its about keeping the idea that immigrants stealing jobs is a major factor in economic failure in the news cycle.
And I see the "Starmer's labour isn't really racist, peer pressure made them do it" excuse has already been trotted out as it always is every time Starmer shows us they actually are.
The government announcement is suspiciously vague on how it will stop illegal working.
Spoiler. It probably won't. It should help employers and the HRMC attach everything to the right employees though. You'd be surprised how many people end up with multiple sets of entries (and/or NI numbers) with HRMC.
I can see how it puts taxpayer cash into the pockets of Palantir and Accenture though.
apparently they will not be outsourcing the work, its being done by digital services department.
as for whether it will stop illegal workers, thats partly how its being sold and it would in theory make it easier to track whether people are employed illegally , it would peobably mean the end of deliveroo if it did!
The benefits in theory come from reducing red tape when employing people legally, business didnt like FOM because it gave them access to cheap labour, they liked it coz it meant there was a flexible labour force that could react to new jobs, in part I think this helps with that, theres a ton of red tape when employing new staff so in theory! this could save a lot of hassle and cost for business and employees.
Issues with security and future over-reach are real, though Im sure if pretty much every single other country in Europe (apart from Ireland?) can manage it, we can too.
How does an ID card stop someone who is working illegally?
Because it makes it harder to do as you can be made to show your ID card. Its certainly thought of as a pull factor
Are you suggesting that the primary issue with regards to illegal workers is that they have, up until now, been successfully fooling employers?
I wouldn't claim to be an expert on the issue of illegal working but I suspect that in the areas where the practice is apparently prevalent, such nail bars and carwashes, that the employers who are exploiting these desperate people with no legal status and no cash are fully aware of their immigration status.
In fact I would imagine that employers in sectors which are prevalent in exploiting undocumented workers are actually actively seeking out employees with no legal status.
The idea that the average person running a carwash or nail bar might be surprised to discover that their employees are illegally working is frankly weird.
Last time Labour looked into this ID card, Blunkett introduced the concept around 2005.
It was barely off the ground by 2010, when the Tory/Libs coalition scrapped it.
A waste of at least £5Bn.
A waste of at least £5Bn.
Well desperate times require desperate measures.
An MRP poll out today predicts that if a general election was held tomorrow Reform would be 15 seats short of majority.
And MRP polls have a track record of being extremely accurate. They are also very time consuming and expensive, which is why you only get one every couple of months or so.
i think Ernie's point is right about this being on the employers of illegal workers, its going to have a big impact on the gig economy and those other shadier sources of income
I'm not at all clear on what problems it will solve. Given the risks around expended political capital, data security, and botched implementation, you would expect there to be an overwhelming argument for it.
Are you suggesting that the primary issue with regards to illegal workers is that they have, up until now, been successfully fooling employers?
I think what TJ is referring to is that in Spain (for instance) the cops can rock up to a car wash and ask for everyone's ID. If they can't produce it, they get arrested, rather than folks [who don't have a right to work] pulling the wool over the eyes of employers.
I think what TJ is referring to is that in Spain (for instance) the cops can rock up to a car wash and ask for everyone's ID. If they can't produce it, they get arrested, rather than folks [who don't have a right to work] pulling the wool over the eyes of employers.
What you are talking about there is compulsory ID laws.
Even if you're a tourist in Spain the police can stop you and ask you for ID. If you don't have it on you then you get arrested (and this is the case for all individuals in Spain, you shouldn't leave the house without a government issued ID of some description).
It's got nothing to do with legal right to work. It's just a law saying everyone has to always carry ID.
https://rondatoday.com/carrying-id-when-living-in-spain/
Digital IDs are different in that this is normally a way of identifying individuals for anything vaguely official (banks, doctors, you can even use it to sign documents, etc). They aren't a compulsory ID that has to be carried at all times.
Is the government suggesting compulsory IDs, Digital IDs, or compulsory Digital IDs? Who the hell knows. Perhaps they don't even know themselves.
the cops can rock up to a car wash and ask for everyone's ID.
But the government announcement says this won't be allowed - we won't all have to carry around ID at all times.
It's at best muddled and at worst downright deceitful.
It's at best muddled and at worst downright deceitful.
I don't think it is a bad idea. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with tackling illegal immigration.
However, Starmer only has eyes for Reform these days so every issue has to be tied to 'Stop the Boats!' somehow. However tenuously.
I still want to know how it can be smartphone only and not exclude folk
Very dystopian, this has Tony Blairs fingerprints all over it. Perhaps next we could link it to a social credit score.
"It is excessive state interference - and must be resisted" It's a rare day that I agree with comrade Corbyn.
Luckily for all of us this government is far too incompetent to actually put this into practice.
Nokia 3310's will be making a comeback.
However, Starmer only has eyes for Reform these days so every issue has to be tied to 'Stop the Boats!' somehow. However tenuously.
I reckon it is more than just trying to steal Nigel Farage's thunder. It's partly that but imo it is also because Sir Keir Starmer is using immigrants and refugees in a very similar way as Nigel Farage uses them.
Any reasonable politician with an ounce of honesty would point out to voters that the reason for their food and energy bills going through the roof, and all their other day to day struggles, has nothing to do with immigrants and refugees.
The problem is that Nigel Farage has no solutions to the real problems that effect ordinary working people's life's so he constantly bangs on about immigrants and refugees using them as scapegoats to deflect from the fact that he himself has no solutions.
Sir Keir Starmer now after over a year as Prime Minister finds himself in a similar situation. He clearly doesn't have the answers to the real problems that effect people's lives, that would require radical policies and challenging the failed economic orthodoxy.
Sir Keir isn't that sort of politician, the former DPP is an establishment figure who wants to maintain the status quo at all costs. So brave economic policies which would make a real difference to people's lives are mostly ignored and instead he bangs on about getting tough on illegal immigrants.
Although as rone pointed out on the previous page Starmer/McSweeney do appear to be possibly shifting a tad. Which is hardly surprising considering how internal Labour Party disquiet is growing.
I still want to know how it can be smartphone only and not exclude folk
Because the govt have already said it won't be smart phone only. From this announcement
In designing the digital ID scheme, the government will ensure that it works for those who aren’t able to use a smartphone, with inclusion at the heart of its design. The public consultation will engage with groups who aren’t as experienced with the digital world, like the homeless and older people, learning from other countries that have done this well.
Ah - not seen that. dunno how you can have a digital ID with no access to the digital world
I'm self employed and retiring next year. Can I tell them to **** off?
How long before unscrupulous people figure out how to harvest your government ID from third party sites
How long did it take in all the other countries that have government IDs?
How long before Lord Far Far sells all our info to Musk?
How long before Lord Far Far sells all our info to Musk?
Sell? I think he will follow the tories and new labour in paying them to have our data. Just see the latest "deal" with Palantir headed by one of musks paypal mafia associates Thiel. Someone who is probably worse than Musk since he actually keeps a bit more to the shadows. Amongst his recent "achievements" is being Vances investor.
Theres a lot of silliness over this, if you wear a Garmin or any smart watch, carry a mobile phone, use social media, have tesco clubcard, shop online, browse the internet..... guess what corporations already have more data on you than the government does.
Meanwhile we're the only country in Europe without ID cards, plenty have had them for decades, Ukraine jas a better developed eID than we do, some countries have been fully online for decades
Yet in the UK if you want to open a bank account, get a loan start a new job, hire a new employee, a driving licence get a loan or a mortgage.... You just have to produce your birth certificate/passport/driving licence, , print out 3 months bank statements, show council tax bills, utilities bills for the last quarter, paper versions and not copies either (despite all that stuff being online now) your last 5 addresses qnd your mothers maiden name.....
Yeah no wonder our productivity is through the floor , way past time the UK got with the modern world
I gave someone a printout of an online energy bill the other day to 'prove' my identity. I wonder how easy it would have been to use an AI to generate a fake one?
Theres a lot of silliness over this, if you wear a Garmin or any smart watch, carry a mobile phone, use social media, have tesco clubcard, shop online, browse the internet..... guess what corporations already have more data on you than the government does.
My favourite is people complaing about data collection...on facebook.
Well, if the eID announcement was designed to be a distraction and get people talking about it… job done.
Can anyone talk me through the Conservative objection to it though? We shouldn’t have a universal ID that everyone has (so not just passport holders and/or drivers), but we should have to have ID to vote? How do they square that one? You must have ID to vote, but everyone having ID is bad?
Theres a lot of silliness over this, ... in the UK if you want to open a bank account, get a loan start a new job, hire a new employee, a driving licence get a loan or a mortgage.... You just have to produce your birth certificate/passport/driving licence, , print out 3 months bank statements, show council tax bills, utilities bills for the last quarter, paper versions and not copies either (despite all that stuff being online now) your last 5 addresses qnd your mothers maiden name.....
Yeah no wonder our productivity is through the floor , way past time the UK got with the modern world
There is a lot of silliness over this.
1) I opened a Revolut account last month and it took about 3 minutes, all through the app. No ID card necessary
2) implementing a nationwide ID card programme to save 10 minutes in opening bank accounts isn't a great use of money
3) if ID cards are the key to productivity, then why are most of the other European countries (which all have ID cards) less productive than the UK?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_labour_productivity
Meanwhile we're the only country in Europe without ID cards
There are quite a few countries in Europe which don't have compulsory ID cards, the UK government is now committed to making ID cards compulsory.
And whilst "the only country in Europe" is a vaguely reasonable argument I wouldn't overemphasis it to support a position.
I made the analogy earlier of the police routinely carrying guns in Europe you could extend that to the use of teargas and water cannons. I actually appreciate how different the UK is to much of Europe when it comes to a lot of law enforcement issues.
You could extend that to plenty of other things too, such as vat on food. Apart from the UK only Ireland and Malta don't have vat on food however I think it would be a truly terrible idea if the UK fell in line with most of Europe and placed vat on food.
As far as compulsory ID cards are concerned I don't have strong opinions on the issue my only worry is the motivation behind the idea, why the **** is it going to be called the Britcard? How it will be implemented and used, especially with regards to immigrants and people who look as if they might be immigrants. And how its introduction might be possibly be abused by a Reform-led government in four years time.
Ha, this arrived in the post this morning. Before I can set up my online account for the pension my new employer has enrolled me into, I either have to entrust important documents to the postal service and then the pension admins, or go to the library, photocopy them, and then get some random to sign it. In 2025.
Can anyone talk me through the Conservative objection to it though? We shouldn’t have a universal ID that everyone has (so not just passport holders and/or drivers), but we should have to have ID to vote? How do they square that one? You must have ID to vote, but everyone having ID is bad?
Well from what I have heard Kemi Badenoch's objection appears to be based solely on the fact that it will be compulsory, she doesn't appear to be opposed to the principle of ID cards.
On the question of voting the Tories want proof of identity, it doesn't have to be a national ID card. So I don't see a contradiction there.
What's the Labour Party's position on voting btw? I have no idea. Have they scrapped the need for ID when voting?