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Imagine being this flaccid.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn4mwwn4w11o
Health Secretary Wes Streeting said the plans - which formed part of a 2019 election promise by the Conservatives for 40 new hospitals by 2030 - were not affordable.
Labour - the party of inaction and fiscal incredulity.
Actually all modern parties are about taking stuff away.
Meanwhile:
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uks-reeves-launches-bid-protect-005642329.html
UK's Reeves launches bid to protect car-loan providers in mis-selling case, FT reports
Reuters) - British finance minister Rachel Reeves launched a bid to protect car-loan providers from multibillion-pound payouts in a landmark mis-selling case, with the Treasury taking the unusual step of seeking permission to intervene in the Supreme Court, the Financial Times reported on Monday.
Grown ups / sensible people/ adults in the room etc.
Ghastly.
Unemployment is up in reports today to as is wage growth distorted by high earners of course.
Great news on wage growth. Despite all the scaremongering about how the budget would negatively impact wage growth, the reality so far is actually the complete opposite.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g372w32vjo
Health Secretary Wes Streeting said the plans – which formed part of a 2019 election promise by the Conservatives for 40 new hospitals by 2030 – were not affordable.
It's pretty obvious that was always fluff & bullshine from the Johnson team & wholly unaffordable & half baked.
Despite all the scaremongering about how the budget would negatively impact wage growth, the reality so far is actually the complete opposite.
The 2% NI rise hasn't been implemented yet, and most employers don't implement pay reviews until April. You might want to keep your powder dry before celebrating a tiny uptick in wages against a backdrop of universally negative indicators.
most employers don’t implement pay reviews until April.
Source? I've worked for multiple companies and had pay reviews at various points throughout the year. Several people on here have claimed their employers have already made decisions. We will know more in due course, but these early signs are very positive.
a backdrop of universally negative indicators.
Wages and GDP up. Unemployment slightly up. Looks more positive than negative to me. No idea where you're getting the idea that it's universally negative.
GDP up
0.1% in December. Is that a joke? A 0.1% rise is in anyone's books a very sub-par GDP performance (if you assume GDP growth is a good thing, which is very debatable).
It's a rounding error.
Low bars for Labour all the time.
At best 1 month of flatlining.
Looks more positive than negative to me. No idea where you’re getting the idea that it’s universally negative.
Best to take a trend over a period.
Labour are doing limited fiscal flows which means it can't really translate to growth. It just technically can't. Which is why we've flatlined for a long time now. Then if the Wicked Witch makes cuts to benefits that will simply drain more money out of the economy and it will shrink.
(They will deregulate and sit and wait for interest rates to come down, houses to shift and then call that growth.)
They are doing the exact opposite of what needs to be done.
The 2% NI rise hasn’t been implemented yet, and most employers don’t implement pay reviews until April. You might want to keep your powder dry before celebrating a tiny uptick in wages against a backdrop of universally negative indicators.
This.
The wage increase is as usual distorted by higher earners.
I think if you looked at UK GDP growth post-2007 then 0.1% per month would be very close to par, so I don't know where "very sub par" comes from.
It's early days yet, but so far no sign whatsoever of any of these economic problems the right wing have been scaremongering about.
Don't ask for 'sources' from certain posters. You'll never get any.
The wage increase is as usual distorted by higher earners.
If you’re tracking PAYE median pay, which is far more resilient to being skewed by higher paid outliers, you’re looking at 7% for October '24. Suggests to me that you’re just making a statement based on what has happened in recent years, rather than looking at the data since the government changed.
Oh, an interesting note… 15.4% rise in median pay in health and social work sector… against a background of very low rises for many others in the public sector. I think that reflects where the money is being targeted. It probably means hard times for many civil servants ahead, expect that to be a future point of conflict, especially as private sector pay increases more than the public sector as a whole.
ONS for my source.
I don’t think this predicts good news for ‘25 though, I think we’re in for another year of stagnant wages and new inflationary pressures, depending on what happens in the USA and Germany especially.
7% feels high, I am not sure I know anyone who has received anything like that in the past year, if it is true then that would be good, I just hope I get to feel it sometime. I have had between 1.5 to 2.5 a year rises in the past 5 years, which while obviously way way behind inflation, especially real inflation, but I know people who have had less or zero.
3.5% does seem realistic, would the rise in health and social care wages skew that much? I know they are clearly a big employment sector, but still not sure how much that would skew the national trend.
Headline inflation for 2024 is 2.5, which again feels low, but given the inflation over the past 5 years compared to wage growth I think the compounding effect would/could probably still outstrip the wage growth for essential spending (I can't quite get my head around the maths, and I might be wrong in my premiss).
3.5% is welcome, it needs to outstrip inflation by far more than that to even take us back to 2022 never mind 2008, but if the trend continues maybe we can start chipping away at the losses.
chipping away at the losses
Indeed. I don't think we can expect the losses to be recovered for a decade, or more, if looking at the job market as a whole. Even in health & care, any recent increases are dwarfed by what's happened since 2008. It's a depressing hole... and starting the climb out doesn't mean we're likely to be out of it anytime soon. Prioritising health & care is needed. Lives depend on it. And the sector is in a mess.
It’s a depressing hole… and starting the climb out doesn’t mean we’re likely to be out of it anytime soon. Prioritising health & care is needed. Lives depend on it. And the sector is in a mess.
A big +1 from me although I'd add that every sector is in a mess. A bit of honesty with the voters and less flailing around with nonsense about expanding airports and "mainlining AI into the nation" wouldn't go amiss.
Someone needs to explain about investment in services, utilities, the people, education, health etc, not have it constantly framed as subsidy or bailout.
I don't think we should set our ambitions so low. The wealth exists, but it is and has been flooding up, just hoping for a few years of trickle down will never rectify anything, We need to stop pretending that the past years has been anything but a smash and grab by the wealthy on the majority and reverse it as quickly as they have taken it.
Yup, every sector is a mess, but the results of Health & Care being in a mess are more critical than some/many others, if we're picking priorities. Agree with you about the PR fluff around airports and AI... although some of that is which announcements are picked up on by the media and the public... so much just gets ignored as "well they should be doing that anyway".
And on care... large increases in Council Tax will be the next problem for this government. They're coming, because of Social Care. You can expect both the media and your local facebook groups to get very agitated by it, and linking it to "diversity" and "immigrants", rather than the increasing needs as regards the care system as the population ages.
MSP, look how popular "baby steps" towards taxing the rich have been... people getting behind millionaire land owners and the privately educated. So much more needs doing. It's going to make the government very unpopular though if they do... don't assume the British public have an appetite for reclaiming money from the rich... they should do, but they really don't.
I don't think the general public were behind the millionaire landowners, there were some rent a gobs and some conned by the idea that it affected poor farmers just scraping a living, but the majority were behind the change. Just like the riots, when crunch came to shove they were faced down by the majority, the media tried to suggest the rioters aims were supported by the general public but that just wasn't true.
Lets not base our ambitions on a gobby minority amplified by the media owned by billionaires, people do want change.
Don’t ask for ‘sources’ from certain posters. You’ll never get any.
Monthly GDP figures for the past two years up to Nov 2024. The past two years have been commonly identified as years of 'stagnant' growth. You'll see even then 0.1% per month is small compared to most months with positive growth. Last months 0.1% rise is nothing to celebrate.
2022 Nov - 0.3
2022 Dec - 0.4
2023 Jan - 0.2
2023 Feb - 0.2
2023 Mar - 0.1
2023 Apr - 0.3
2023 May - 0.0
2023 Jun - 0.0
2023 Jul - -0.1
2023 Aug - 0.2
2023 Sep - 0.1
2023 Oct - -0.2
2023 Nov - -0.4
2023 Dec - -0.3
2024 Jan - 0.1
2024 Feb - 0.3
2024 Mar - 0.7
2024 Apr - 0.7
2024 May - 0.7
2024 Jun - 0.4
2024 Jul - 0.2
2024 Aug - 0.0
2024 Sep - 0.0
2024 Oct - 0.0
2024 Nov - 0.0
Source:
people do want change
Yes but it's always ignored in favour of what financial institutions, commercial investors, large landowners (The Crown Estate) certain industries and corporations want, which is reinforced and disseminated to the masses by mainstream media.
Then you have politicians who represent those interests messing about with peoples lives, stirring up division and hatred so they can deliver the wants of their backers and leave the rest of us squabbling over scraps and trying to navigate all the bullshit and hurdles they put in our way.
Oh look your beds burning and here's some water to juggle on your unicycle.
If people want “change” they need to be vocal about supporting change. When the government decided to reduce the tax breaks for landowners, all they heard was opposition. When the government means tested winter fuel payments, all they heard was opposition. When the government settled public pay disputes and paid people slightly more, all they heard was opposition. ‘No not those changes’… making changes that rebalance things away from the wealthy and towards the rest needs to be vocally supported.
When the government means tested winter fuel payments, all they heard was opposition. When the government settled public pay disputes and paid people slightly more, all they heard was opposition. ‘No not those changes’… making changes that rebalance things away from the wealthy and towards the rest needs to be vocally supported
As long as the narrative is controlled by billionaires this is the version of events we get.
It's an uphill struggle because of that, for sure. But governments need to "listen" as well as lead, or they're short lived. If all that is heard is moaning and dropping poll ratings when money is taken from those with wealth... how much more can be pushed in that direction? I think there likely is more to come in terms or tax rises on the wealthy, and redirecting spending to essential services and those that need the most help... but I also expect that to be "unpopular" and unwelcome as regards voters it doesn't even touch... and they will be heard.
If people want “change” they need to be vocal about supporting change.
The French people just voted for change, Macron has done everything in his power deny it. When Bernie was looking strong in his leadership bid the democrats used every dirty trick possible to stop him. When labour offered progressive policies their membership nearly tripled, and the head office and PLP fought against the membership (they didn't mind the SM algorithms and right wing media barons then) to suppress change. When the people spoke out against genocide in Palestine, the tories brought in anti protest laws, laws that Starmer fully supports and has put his weight behind forcing through parliment and fighting legal chalenges.
It isn't the people not speaking, it is the Governments not listening, and it is the centrists arrogance and dismissal of the voice of the people that is pushing them to alternative false promises of change.
It isn’t the people not speaking, it is the Governments not listening, and it is the centrists arrogance and dismissal of the voice of the people that is pushing them to alternative false promises of change
You would hope the pressure from failing just about every group of society (probably apart from the super wealthy with their nice interest income) and Reform up their arse that they may change tact.
But Starmer, Reeves and Co are arrogant in the direction of intent.
Centrists have moved on currently to analysing Musk/Trump over and over rather than looking at the state of the UK.
There's always something to be hysterical at rather than support good doable progressive measures for improving conditions to those struggling.
When the government means tested winter fuel payments, all they heard was opposition
That particular change isn't the problem, it's the appalling execution.
I'll say it again. The Government rushed a change through that disadvantaged some of the poorest and most vulnerable in society.
Some of the UK’s poorest households use 21% less energy during cold weather than other households, leaving them exposed to potentially dangerous cold damp homes... https://www.endfuelpoverty.org.uk/critically-low-energy-usage-hits-poorer-households-during-cold-weather/
Winter fuel payments are only made to households claiming certain benefits, but only around 63% of eligible pensioners claim pension credit. Scotland put the WFP change off for a year to address this problem, E&W rushed in with both feet. This is a problem of the Government's own making.
Cold weather payments are only made after a period of a week at below 0C, six days, no payment.
The poorest kept the winter fuel allowance
What the economy needs is government spending and investment by wuatative easing ie creating money
Without more money in the economy we will not get griwth. Bollox to cant afford it. We cant afford not to
but only around 63% of eligible pensioners claim pension credit
It's 22 years since I worked in DWP and at that point we were sending visiting officers to local community groups and pretty much door to door to help eligible pensioners claim pension credit. It's terrible that the take up rate is so low (as is state pension of course)
The poorest kept the winter fuel allowance
Only if you make yourself eligible. The most vulnerable don't for reasons that you'll well understand...
Eligibility
You can get a Winter Fuel Payment for Winter 2024 to 2025 if you were born before 23 September 1958.You must also live in England, Wales or Northern Ireland and get one of the following:
Pension Credit
Universal Credit
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA)
Income Support
Child Tax Credit
Working Tax Credit
You’ll also need to have been getting a benefit during the qualifying week of 16 to 22 September 2024.In some circumstances, you might be eligible if you live abroad. https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/eligibility
It’s terrible that the take up rate is so low (as is state pension of course)
Nobody knows for sure, but another figure from the PM is 800,000 (c39%) not claiming it. They knew about this and could have postponed the change as Scotland did...
4 September 2024, 12.29pm
Posted on X
At #PMQs @Keir_Starmer said “800,000 pensioners are not taking up Pension Credit”.Government figures show 1.4 million people currently claim Pension Credit, and up to 880,000 people are eligible but don’t claim it, meaning potentially 39% of those eligible don’t claim it.
Pension Credit is one of the qualifying benefits for the Winter Fuel Payment. Pensioners who don’t receive any of the qualifying benefits will no longer receive the Winter Fuel Payment from this winter.
https://fullfact.org/live/2024/sep/starmer-conference-speech-2024/
If people want “change” they need to be vocal about supporting change.
52% voted for brexit.
40% voted for Corbyn's policies.
Labour members overwhelmingly voted for Corbyn.
Johnson won on a platform of change from the status quo (even if he didn't deliver it)
Starmer did the same and is currently doing his best not delivering it.
Every time voters tell politicians they want change, the politicians nod and agree and then either actively obstruct it in the case of Corbyn, or promise change with no intention of delivering it as with Johnson and Starmer. Starmer even went to the extreme of expelling the members of his party who were calling for change. What more do you expect people to do? Riot?
Another poll just out which puts Labour in third place behind both the Tories and Reform
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1882033953705799782
But I'm sure it's nothing to worry about.
.
What more do you expect people to do? Riot?
Well it worked on the other side of the Atlantic. If Momentum had refused to accept the result of the 2017 general election, stormed Parliament and threatened to hang John Bercow, then Jeremy would have been carried to power in 2019 on a wave of popular revolt and rejection of the status quo. Maybe they could have actually rejected Status Quo too and threatened to hang Francis Rossi?
Either way we’d now be living in a socialist utopia and Jeremy could have pardoned the rioters, declaring them national heroes from the new seat of government… the garden shed in the garden of number 10.
So ultimately the lefties have only themselves to blame for their failure to embrace violent disorder and over-reliance on online petitions instead
So ultimately the lefties have only themselves to blame for their failure to embrace violent disorder and over-reliance on online petitions instead
Totally agree.
The more sensible point though is that politicians of the centre, and their apologists, continually deny that people want something different despite clear evidence to the contrary. The longer this continues, the more support Farage and others on the populist right will gain.
Guardian comments page turning itself inside out as the last of the faux-lefty Liberals realise that Starmer stands for bugger all as Ed Davey steps up his criticism of the Government's attitude to the Europe-wide customs scheme.
Dunt and O'Brien preparing tomorrows's scripts - for how this is a great move.
Wonder if the Liberal swingers will now scuttle off back to where they belong in the Dems; now they caused a whole load of acceleration towards neoliberal doom and incessent defending of quite blantently shit style tory economics and policy?
Oh God What Now team will implode in the next episode finding ways to celebrate every cock-up that has happened this week.
The Government rushed a change through that disadvantaged some of the poorest and most vulnerable in society.
That’s fair. But delaying the announcement a few months would have prevented a push to get people signed up for pension credits before the winter hit though. Could have been put off ‘till next winter I suppose. Most people “hit” are pensioners who can afford it, and the money being spent elsewhere rather than given to rich pensioners should be welcomed.
The push back against taxing the rich continues though, and the government look to be yielding… sounding like the taxing of people who previously used non-dom status to avoid taxes is going to be “modified”. I doubt that means they’ll be paying more tax.
The push back against taxing the rich continues though
By who? I haven't heard anyone other than the super wealthy oppose taxing non doms, so who have the government apparently caved in to? I think we all know who would have been pressuring the government on this issue, and it isn't the general electorate.
You’ll see even then 0.1% per month is small compared to most months with positive growth.
But if you look at all 24 months in that list, 0.1% is better or equal to more than half of them
Last months 0.1% rise is nothing to celebrate.
Not sure anyone should celebrating, but looking at the data over those 24 months, it's better than most.
I think we all know who would have been pressuring the government on this issue, and it isn’t the general electorate.
This. What Kelvin is essentially saying is that we can't have decent public services, infrastructure and a supportive health and welfare systems because the wealthy are not willing to pay for them. Which brings into question the point of democracy, which is to implement policies in the interests of the majority rather than an elite few. I think it's clear that what we're currently experiencing in our politics is the opposite of democracy. The first stage in reversing this is to accept the nature of the problem, and it's obvious that many on here have a long way to go on that.
No, I haven't said that: I have welcomed increased public spending, and also tax rises on the wealthy, and said more of both have to happen.
I have welcomed increased public spending, and also tax rises on the wealthy
Yes but you are also accepting of the fact that these things aren't possible. This is my point, we need to stop conceding to the demands of the rich and do the opposite. To quote Michael Foot:
"f you ask me about those insoluble economic problems that may arise if the top is deprived of their initiative, I would answer 'To hell with them.' The top is greedy and mean and will always find a way to take care of themselves. They always do."
They are entirely possible... but if the public don't support it...
Let's be honest, the people vocally supporting the first tax rises on the rich are few and far between. Minor tax rises on wealthy individuals and companies has gone down like a bag of sick, and all the countries ills blamed on them (be this down the pub, or on the 'net). If the government "listens" rather than just plows on and does what needs doing... then further tax rises on those that have "the widest shoulders" won't be happening. I hope they do happen, but I don't see any signs that they will be welcomed by the public if they do... and ultimately the government gets all its power from the voters.
Sorry for the tangent, but trying to look for the positives so far with Labour and struggling
The economy is going backwards
The NHS is failing at an increased rate ie stopping hospital programme , increasing privatisation
stopping winter fuel payments
Private school education is being taxed higher, making it far more elite than it was previously
Sod the environment and commitment to the environment because they want to build more airport capacity
what positives have I missed ?
but if the public don’t support it
Again you are suggesting the public don't support taxing non doms, you are twisting reality to argue against taxing the rich and blaming the general public, and then denying it when called out, then going straight back to doing the same again.