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With a nod to previous affairs. 😉
A date with a sultana?
Very dry wit!
And it is them who are proportionally likely to suffer the most from the creation of a new left-wing social democratic party.
Yup. The new Corbyn (don’t call it a personality cult) Party risks removing “momentum” from the Greens at a critical time for them, while also amplifying disquiet at Labour not fixing everything everywhere all at once. Only Reform stand to gain. Hopefully his party will sink without a trace well before then next general election, and we can get more Green MPs, and not too many more Reform MPs (there will be more). Personally I want the Labour seat count to hold up enough to stop Reform being the largest party… but that’s just wishful thinking at this stage. Hopefully Labour MPs can mark their mark on this government in the coming years, and that their efforts are noticed by their constituents.
The new Corbyn (don’t call it a personality cult) Party risks removing “momentum” from the Greens at a critical time for them
Firstly it is very far from certain that he wants to be leader, it appears that the most he is prepared to consider ATM is interim/provisional leader.
And secondly this could actually represent an opportunity for the Green Party. I think it is highly likely if not inevitable that the new party will form an electoral alliance with the Greens, this could put them both in a much stronger position.
Hopefully Labour MPs can mark their mark on this government in the coming years, and that their efforts are noticed by their constituents.
Dont bank on it, I've written to my labour MP, on april 16th 2025, on the subject of cosying up to trump and inviting a convicted sex offender and fraudster into the country on an official state visit, and what sort of tone he thinks that will set.
Trump shouldn't even be granted a visa, never mind having the red carpet rolled out for him, where's 'Tommy two-names' when he's needed? lol 🤔
The self-important double-barrel surnamed **** hasn't even had the common decency to even get one of his lakies to even acknowledge my concerns, never mind give me any kind of reply at all.
They never can be… unless you set up your own party where you have the final say and the strongest voice that is.
As always your wisdom dazzles me almost as much as your sneering attitude. As such I hesitate to mention it but doesnt this come back to your outrage about creating a party rather than joining the green party which, as any sixth former could tell you, has limited overlap with Corbyn etc. The "green party" (by which I assume you mean the English/Welsh variant vs the Scottish version) serves a different group from traditional left wing voters.
Another advantage of the new party is that it will undoubtedly sound the death knell of George Galloway's Workers Party, an irritating and unhelpful distraction in UK politics.
Galloway has made overtures to Corbyn but these have been very firmly rejected.
As such I hesitate to mention it but doesnt this come back to your outrage about creating a party rather than joining the green party which, as any sixth former could tell you, has limited overlap with Corbyn etc.
No outrage. Just consider it the move of a self serving politician, as you probably would if it was anyone else.
Yup. The new Corbyn (don’t call it a personality cult)
Nudge nudge wink wink hey? Its fascinating how people like you happily amplify the hard right attack lines. I mean you could just actually pay some attention and spot the obvious fact Corbyn doesnt seem to keen on the idea but nope just dive straight in and help out the hard right.
also amplifying disquiet at Labour not fixing everything everywhere all at once
Can you come out with any more half arsed cliches? The problem is they are fixing **** all and just going in for Johnson style politics. To fix stuff they needed to have started last year as per the post war Labour government and not punt all the decisions into future commissions. That is being grown up and pragmatic.
Making the hard decisions now so either a)we benefit from them by the next election or b)even if the next government takes the credit at least they will be hard to back out. Again see post war Labour and the NHS.
Hopefully Labour MPs can mark their mark on this government in the coming years, and that their efforts are noticed by their constituents.
Only and this is a big if they tell McSweeney and co to **** off with their arse kissing of the "hero voters". Unfortunately they wont and aside from a few people like yourself who will keep announcing we just need to wait for the glorious grown up leader to stop chasing the hard right vote everyone else will decide either a)just vote for the hard right or b)vote for a fragmented opposition.
At which point I am sure you will start announcing that we should have waited till the next next election at which point Starmer and McSweeney would have stopped being so hard right.
Everone is still conviniently pretending the lib dems don't exist...
Unfortunately it is effectively true. Unless they manage to convince the media to give them a tenth of the attention ukip gets then they are going to be in a tight spot with Daveys having to do stupid stunts to get a tenth of the attention Farage gets reluctantly sipping a pint of beer in a pub whilst wishing he could be in the club drinking wine.
the obvious fact Corbyn doesnt seem to keen on the idea
Getting Sultana to do all the public floating of the idea fools no one.
and help out the hard right
That’s exactly what Corbyn risks doing.
as you probably would if it was anyone else.
Well aside from, as Ernie pointed out to you, its unclear whether he is keen on the idea. Its also difficult to see why being in a party would be any better for him than running as an independent? Being an independent didnt exactly hurt him last time round did it?
Its odd how, again, you parrot the hard right attack line of " self serving politician" aka they are all the same and in it from themselves.
Perhaps you might want to consider who is actually helping reform here?
Just consider it the move of a self serving politician,
I am not Corbyn's number one fan but I cannot think of a less appropriate description, are you for real?
If you see Corbyn as a self-serving politician what is Sir Keir Starmer in your alternative universe, some sort of selfless conviction politician?
Getting Sultana to do all the public floating of the idea fools no one.
If you actually think that you are betraying how little you understand about the situation.
There will be no "public floating of the idea". This party in the making might be news to you but some serious work has been going on for months.
Much of the debate is whether it should be a normal structured party or alternatively a loose alliance of local initiatives, something which exists to an extent at the moment and could be expanded nationwide. I think it might be tilting to the latter which could obviously work well if it involved an alliance with the Greens.
With regards to the leadership Corbyn is known to prefer a collective leadership but there is talk of interim leadership. Zarah Sultana has impressed a lot of people but she actually has little experience in politics so it has been suggested that her youthful energy should be complimented with Corbyn's decades of political experience. Corbyn has yet to make a decision but it looks likely that he might agree to co-lead in the short term.
Sultana jumping the gun and announcing that she is launching a new party with Corbyn and forcing him to release an unplanned statement is probably a testament to Sultana's naivety and lack of experience. Any announcement of the birth of a new high profile party is generally done in a planned way via a press conference.
I am not even sure that Sultana has had much to do with the formation of any party, until a couple of days ago she was a fully paid up member the Labour Party. The discussions concerning the possibility launching a new party on the left have been going on for a very long time.
That’s exactly what Corbyn risks doing.
Doesn't really matter as far as the next election cycle goes, it's either Reform or a right wing for a Labour party government. Or some car crash of a basically right wing for the UK hung parliament.
The UK is at least 10 years away from a "left" wing Government. If you want, I'd bet you (not everyone) a Lochinver Pie delivery on that.
One legislative / policy change from the efforts of the left wing factions outside of the labour party?
?????
Anyone? Just one tiny example of this?
You still have not provided an example of a left wing party outside of the labour party having actually achieved anything at Westminster. the system is rigged so they cannot. there have been loads of left wing parties created over the years. Not one has acheived anything
Just consider it the move of a self serving politician,
I am not Corbyn's number one fan but I cannot think of a less appropriate description, are you for real?
If you see Corbyn as a self-serving politician what is Sir Keir Starmer in your alternative universe, some sort of selfless conviction politician?
I agree with you on that.
You still have not provided an example of a left wing party outside of the labour party having actually achieved anything at Westminster.
No I haven't, because I have explained why that wasn't necessary. The unique nature of the Labour Party, an association of affiliated socialist societies and trade unions, rendered that unnecessary. Read my post again.
The Labour Party was the mass party of working people, its democratic structures and very wide spectrum of political opinions made it an effective vehicle for change without the need for other left-wing political parties. Political organisations rooted in the communities that wished to present their own arguments could affiliate to the Labour Party (the obvious exception to that was the banning of marxists, but that's a separate story)
All that has now changed, the Labour Party is no more. And that's the problem, you seem to think that the current government is a "Labour" government, it isn't, it is simply trading under that name. As I previously said it will be the first government in history which calls itself Labour that doesn't introduce reforms that change the lives of ordinary working people in a real and meaningful way. It is the first government in history which calls itself Labour that is increasing poverty.
Stop living in the past and kidding yourself that nothing has changed. Even a broken clock is correct twice every day, Sir Keir Starmer was correct when he said that he had changed the DNA of the party. The Labour Party as you once knew it is no more.
Previously there would have been no need for Zahra Sultana to join a separate political party because her rightful place was in the Labour Party. She didn't create the current situation, the centrists who are failing their voters did, she was suspended from the PLP with little likelihood of being re-admitted for standing up for the founding principles of the Labour Party.
The electorate appear to be accepting more and more than the shelf life of the established parties have expired, maybe you should too TJ ?
All that has now changed, the Labour Party is no more. And that's the problem, you seem to think that the current government is a "Labour" government, it isn't, it is simply trading under that name.
I really do not. I have stopped voting labour as it has moved so far to the right which has been since well before Starmer. I stopped voting labour when they made a pact with the tories in Scotland that resulted in a tory government at westminster
I simply do not believe that this proposed new party will actually achieve anything. None of the other left wing parties have, why will this one? If they could get their shit together and act together then maybe but all this is doing is splitting the left further. Its a gift to the right
I believe the only way is from within the labour party
We will see in the fullness of time
The Labour Party was the mass party of working people, its democratic structures and very wide spectrum of political opinions made it an effective vehicle for change without the need for other left-wing political parties.
This has not been the actuality for 30+ years
I simply do not believe that this proposed new party will actually achieve anything. None of the other left wing parties have, why will this one? If they could get their shit together and act together then maybe but all this is doing is splitting the left further. Its a gift to the right
I believe the only way is from within the labour party
I think splitting the left is a valid concern. Labour got in because the Tories and Reform split the vote on the left, there are lessons to be learned from that.
I would love to see Labour moving back to the left, offering a vision of opportunity and equality to all. But I'm not even sure enough voters want that now. They want "stuff" not a society, and they want someone to blame if they aren't getting it, apart from their own lack of moral fibre and that of the performative politicians they vote for.
The Labour Party has changed because society has changed, the Labour Party was the voice of working people who had no voice, no employment protections and no access to opportunities. Whilst today's employed might not value what we have we do have employment protection and opportunities for moving out of the job you started working in.
The other big change is the number of people not working because they can't or wont (there's a big overlap), they were not traditionally the core Labour sought to represent. The Labour Party has split with the more centrist elements representing the working people (there were always a lot of Tory working class voters), people who care about their standard of living (a traditional Labour voter) rather than inclusion, welfare etc. The left of the party has moved more towards support for those who don't work. Thats why the Labour Party is struggling, it can't reconcile these two view points. Corbyn as always is an irrelevance, hie undoubtedly conviction based politics and nuanced arguments will not cut through to the average voters. Farage knows this which is why his messaging is conviction free and simple. He knows what his audience wants to hear, not what they need to hear.
I think splitting the left is a valid concern.
This is not about "splitting the left", the Labour Party is not a left-wing party!
In fact what is being proposed is the complete opposite of that, ie reconstructing the Left which has been fractured and split by the Centrists through expulsions, suspensions, and embracing right-wing Tory policies (TINA)
Btw MCTD do you consider yourself to be Left or Centrist? You can't by definition be both
The Labour Party has changed because society has changed, the Labour Party was the voice of working people who had no voice, no employment protections and no access to opportunities. Whilst today's employed might not value what we have we do have employment protection and opportunities for moving out of the job you started working in.
I don't particularly mean to rag on you, @stumpyjon, but I think this illustrates perfectly the victory of the oligarchy in our society. A small number of people are getting richer and richer and the poor are getting poorer and poorer, and an ordinary person with a middling income (I'm guessing) thinks it's all fine. Just as the Tories have managed to get working people to vote against their own interests, now Bezos and co have convinced normal people that working a lifetime to make the rich richer is the way things should be.
Yeah - you'll need some bigger leaflets in 2029 on your little round to explain to everyone else how well Labour have done.
Labour has only enjoyed success through lying its way to power using left-wing messaging "Change" to get there and pulling the rug when in power. (If a company did this you'd be on to trade descriptions.)
It's been a god-awful disaster that many of us saw coming (although honestly not to this degree) and those going on about Corbyn in a negative light should be putting Starmer and Co in their sights for what he has done to the Labour party and brand.
It's Starmer who has damaged whatever people will perceive the Labour party to be going forward. He would have been elected and enjoyed success following through on his top ten lefty lies that put him there, and we'd all be better off as result.
It's been a shockingly awful first 12 months - just thinking back fries my brain; from the bollocks of Centrist baiting black-holes to the freebie summer period. The mess of the WFA and benefits bill. Nothing but a bloody shambles that has set the country and Labour back years.
To not recognise this is literally an ignorant embarrassment of critical thinking and lack of economic understanding of what the country needs to address many of its problems.
Just pretend the Tories did all this and you will get it.
(Let's also face some truths - Starmer is not even a very good right-winger either.)
The classic hilarious 6th Form response!
Still it's gotta be simpler than coming up with a coherent grown-up response.
Politics is hard 😟
Oh look, the grown ups are posting pictures again. I expect we're a page away from them claiming they're being bullied.
“It’s the worst start, for any newly elected government, any newly elected prime minister, either Labour or Conservative.”
Labour’s approval rate is around 24%, and there are multiple reasons for Starmer’s fall in public support, explains politics professor, Sir John Curtice.
The electorate appear to be accepting more and more than the shelf life of the established parties have expired, maybe you should too TJ ?
This x 100. Here in this stereotypical working class semi-rural town, literally everyone I know thinks the Labour party no longer represents them and only speaks for well off/rich middle class professionals who mostly inhabit big cities and their suburbs. Many tell me they will be voting Reform in future because even though they don't like Farage, he is the only politician who dares to speak up about the concerns of working class white people (yes, immigration is high up the list), many others who can't stomach reform say they will not vote at all because there is no one to vote for, the rest say they'll vote for fringe parties like the greens. Even the Labour diehards who've been members and activists all their lives are either leaving the party or are very disillusioned.
For those on here like TJ who say the Labour party is the only way to defeat the hard right, I really don't think you understand the scale of opposition or outright hatred towards Starmer and the Labour party in working class, mostly white, places like Todmorden, and if that sentiment is replicated across the country (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), Labour are going to be decimated at the next election.
Labour’s approval rate is around 24%
Yeah I think a lot of people are in deep denial of how much has changed in UK politics. Labour's support has been at approx 23-24% for months (it's 22% in the very latest poll) As far as I am aware no governing party has ever had such a low level of support in its first year in power, certainly not in modern history.
There is no reasonable chance that Labour will win the next general election which makes the "don't split the so-called left-wing vote" argument even weaker.
Some people seem to be applying the old and now defunct rule that it's "the Tories or Labour" and yet that is very clearly no longer the case.
Just two parties have doubled their support since the general election - Reform and the Greens. Rightly or wrongly neither are viewed as establishment parties by the electorate. I think it is obvious that voters are desperate for change, not the deary certainties of the failed status quo.
given the examples from history that the only thing a new left wing party will do is make it more likely for the tories to win the next election you are making the same mistake as the labour right who preferred a tory win to a left wing labour win. Look where that got us? Brexit and another 5 years of tory austerity. and yes - the labour right did cause this with the tory / labour pact in Scotland and Mandelson and his "undermine corbyn every day"
I hold no truck with our current labour party but they are the only party capable of beating tories and reform. That you would prefer a tory / reform government to a highly imperfect labour one is very telling.
The enemy of your enemy is not your friend
Or are you really think that this new left wing party will actually win? I don't believe they will even attract those left wing economically right wing socially voters Dazh mentions - because they are not going to be attractive to them at all. They will be seen as metropilitan elites more concerned with Gaza than with being racist
I think splitting the left is a valid concern.
This is not about "splitting the left", the Labour Party is not a left-wing party!
In fact what is being proposed is the complete opposite of that, ie reconstructing the Left which has been fractured and split by the Centrists through expulsions, suspensions, and embracing right-wing Tory policies (TINA)
Btw MCTD do you consider yourself to be Left or Centrist? You can't by definition be both
I agree Labour is not a left wing party, hence why I went on to say I'd like to see them moving back to the left. Maybe Corbyn's group of misfits will see enough support to tempt the ditherers in Labour to move back that way but I don't see it.
I'd like to be a centrist, as i believe extremes seldom work well, especially for the vulnerable. The continued failure of the current economic systems under Labour and Tories are pushing me more to the left as I get older.
the only thing a new left wing party will do is make it more likely for the tories to win the next election
I honestly don't intend to be rude but you seem to be living in some sort of alternative universe. You are saying stuff which might possibly have been valid a few years ago but there is now zero chance of the Tories winning any general election, anytime soon.
There is pretty much no chance whatsoever of Labour winning one the next general election either.
You are basing your argument on a past reality which is now history.
The continued failure of the current economic systems under Labour and Tories are pushing me more to the left as I get older.
This hits the nail on the head.
You can quickly cut through a lot of crap with this approach.
(Although I would add the only extreme we seem to get is to the right barely ever the left.)
Rotheram, a former MP who was elected as first Liverpool city region mayor in 2017, said the government appeared “disjointed” from the rest of Labour.
The fact the government appears disjointed from the rest of Labour should surprise no-one. Starmer and his clique spent their time in opposition not attacking the Tories in any meaningful way but attacking members of the Labour Party with an unprecedented level of enthusiasm.
You can't expect an authoritarian leadership which stamps out and silences dissent through expulsions, suspensions, and intimidation, to have any sort of real connection with its membership.
The candidate selection process was designed to as much as possible create political clones who would obediently toe the line dictated by the leader, although that all went tits up last week.
The Idea that the Starmerites would act differently in government than when in opposition was never feasible.
So Neil Kinnock thinks we should have a wealth tax. It really is a no-brainer but I can't see it happening. As Kinnock himself says, inocmes have stagnated while asset values have inflated massively, yet we tax the former and not the latter, and then wonder why the govt can't fund public services.
Clive Lewis gets it.
https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/1941931176173735938?t=XIl1xL42jAGgu93Tc_GVvQ&s=19
As this is primarily a cycling forum, former member of the UK government, Norman Tebbit passed today, the son of an avid cycling job seeker.
Wasn't too keen on the man myself but RIP.
Rotheram, a former MP who was elected as first Liverpool city region mayor in 2017, said the government appeared “disjointed” from the rest of Labour.
Looks like Steve Coogan agrees.
Interesting Facebook post by Zarah Sulrana
Parliament and Hansard have removed “We are all Palestine Action” from my speech on Wednesday 2 July 2025 — despite me saying it.
This is a blatant attempt to censor me and rewrite the record.
on who’s authority is this censorship taking place?
Rotheram, a former MP who was elected as first Liverpool city region mayor in 2017, said the government appeared “disjointed” from the rest of Labour.
Looks like Steve Coogan agrees.
Bang on.