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I was thinking more if you add labours vote to reforms, then the right wing racism promoting parties won.
if you add the Greens vote to Labours vote, we won
Did she say that? In the clip she says that there was a big vote against Reform. Much the same point as @olddog and others made on the previous page. Something for Labour to take on board, before they consider chasing that pro-reform vote any further.
Chancers.
All their latest campaigning was ignoring the fact the green party even existed.
They said it was between Labour or Reform.
Anyway, as a show of thanks for lightening my day/week and finally giving me something to hope for in politics rather than just feeling utterly depressed, I just joined up and sent the Green Party some cash. Might even get involved with campaigning but that would feel a bit weird as I actually quite like our local Labour MP. I hope he will feel more free to express his real opinions on policy (like many labour politicians I'm pretty sure he's far more left wing and progressive than his party PR machine allows him to be in public) in the next couple of years running up to the next election. If he's lucky he might even hang on to his seat.
It appears to be that tactical voting is very much in play to stop Reform getting in. People simply don`t want either Labour or Reform to get in .. so the Loony parties are getting thr votes instead - Greens or Plaid Cymru (in Wales) - I think this tactical voting is very misleading and a general election, where people will [hopefully] give more thought to the Greens or Plaid Cymru actual policies affecting them, will very likely be an altogether different picture.
As of now, its trying to work out which party is the best of a very very bad bunch.
there is a hilarious rant by Daniel Hannan in the Mail (I like to keep up with the enemy mindset) that pulls no punches.
I don't know why people feel they need to apologise or pretend they weren't really reading the Daily Mail. The front page is always rubbish but the rest of the paper is good. And the lifestyle pages are excellent
I do like authenticity in my politicians but its a rare qualityYes all the parties might want to take a look at the candidates they field! The greens would be daft to think this is a sign they can turn up anywhere and pull off the same effect with a random person - but if they can find local mid 30's female plumbers who left school at 16 in each of the constituencies where reform are fielding a dull bloke in a suit who studied politics in both the UK and US and looks like every other career politician whilst claiming to be working class despite his parent having been senior NHS managers and lives hundreds of miles away, then they can probably replicate it! If labour have had controversy over their candidate selection and fielded a local councillor who can be "blamed" for everything bad locally for the last 12 years - even better.
(like many labour politicians I'm pretty sure he's far more left wing and progressive than his party PR machine allows him to be in public)
What is the point of them if they do not say what they think when they're elected?
so the Loony parties are getting thr votes instead - Greens or Plaid Cymru (in Wales)
As opposed to the good 'common sense' parties like Reform, the Tories, and Labour?
Unfortunately the loonies have been in charge of the asylum for quite some time now, and the risk of the particularly fascist loonies to getting the keys at the next election are still pretty high.
Starmer's got to go now surely. It was his decision to block Burnham
I disagree. There was a fair chance Labour could lose the by-election and the mayoral seat. I think keeping Burnham in place as Mayor is more valuable than reducing the parliamentary majority by next to nothing.
Anyway, I like Hannah's victory speech.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/clyz4ellkd7o
It appears to be that tactical voting is very much in play to stop Reform getting in. People simply don`t want either Labour or Reform to get in .. so the Loony parties are getting thr votes instead - Greens or Plaid Cymru (in Wales) - I think this tactical voting is very misleading and a general election, where people will [hopefully] give more thought to the Greens or Plaid Cymru actual policies affecting them, will very likely be an altogether different picture.
As of now, its trying to work out which party is the best of a very very bad bunch.
So are Plaid any more loony then any of the governments we have had in power?
Poly - I was trying to think of an authentic politician and struggling with any current ones. Swinney? Anyone got any?
It’s an interesting outcome. I do wonder how much is it just to kick the main parties. It’s not as if the result makes any difference to the parliamentary arithmetic
but if they can find local mid 30's female plumbers who left school at 16
...and is also currently a councillor and leader of the Green Party Group in that council.
As of now, its trying to work out which party is the best of a very very bad bunch.
I would say Green both north and south of the border even tho Polanski gives me the creeps, Plaid and SNP. they are the only progressive pro EU parties apart from lib Dems who have gone very quiet on the EU
The amount of people that didn't vote for the scum is heartening.
We need to work together to beat these bastards.
If you are not a member a party please get off your bums and join one.
On R4 world at one. @ 13.15
interviewer : just getting some reaction to the byelection result....
interviewed : who wun? (slack and open jawed)
interviewer : green won
interviewed : aww no....I wanted reform to win
interviewer : ok, did you vote yesterday?
interviewed : nah...I didn't vote nah....
interviewer : what do you like about reform?
interviewed : ah dunno........I just like that Nigel Farage...
😆
cult of Farage falls flat on its face, hopefully to be run over like a struck pheasant
I don't know why people feel they need to apologise or pretend they weren't really reading the Daily Mail. The front page is always rubbish but the rest of the paper is good. And the lifestyle pages are excellent
I totally disagree - I find it painful to read, every bit of it and there is nothing whatsoever to recommend it for. I genuinely just give the website a flick over every few days to check where the rightwingers are pointing their ire. I thought initially that it might help me adjust my echo chamber a bit and give me an additional point of view but all it does is reinforce my existing viewpoint. The politics pages are lies, the news section is so incredibly biased as to be unreadable and the rest, the lifestyle as you call it is just thinly veiled adverts or poking sticks at famous people.
Its hateful tripe from start to finish and I feel dirty after I've read it.
There are plenty TJ, I'm naturally an SNP voter but I've recently been involved in some community council issues and my local Labour councillor is just a thoroughly decent bloke who works relentlessly for his community. He's 100% authentic.
I'm sure there are plenty more councillors and constituency MPs that are similarly authentic but just don't court the political spotlight and just try and do what they were elected for.
I genuinely just give the website a flick over every few days to check where the rightwingers are pointing their ire.
You're doing it again - apologising for reading mainstream media that doesn't match the leftie echo chamber consensus! The Mail has done some of the best journalism this country has ever seen - just look at the line they took (at some expense) over Stephen Lawrence murderers.
Something I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet, but I think Spencer could be a future green party leader. Polanski is doing a great job but I wonder if he's better outside of Parliament being a full-time campaigner staying in touch with voters. Bit like the SNP, have a leader in parliament, and a leader outside?
That was 1997 - nearly 30 yrs ago.
I genuinely just give the website a flick over every few days to check where the rightwingers are pointing their ire.
You're doing it again - apologising for reading mainstream media that doesn't match the leftie echo chamber consensus! The Mail has done some of the best journalism this country has ever seen - just look at the line they took (at some expense) over Stephen Lawrence murderers.
PCA - the mail is a hard right propaganda outfi8t and is full of lies.
I genuinely just give the website a flick over every few days to check where the rightwingers are pointing their ire.
A likely story! Just admit it... you're there for the Sidebar of Shame and seeing what Jordan has been up to and who's rumored to be in the next Celebrity Love Island 😉
Starmer's got to go now surely. It was his decision to block Burnham
A couple of the local Labour party members I spoke with weren't massively impressed by his public willingness/unseemly rush to insert himself into the position. They're a bit fed up TBH, The previous MP (Gwynne) was suspended over [his repeated] acts of online idiocy, then Burnham shenanigans , and being pushed to 3rd in a Manchester seat. Bit pants for them today
Bit like the SNP, have a leader in parliament, and a leader outside?
Errmmmm - they SNP have a leader of the Westminster group and the First minister of Scotland. their leader is not outside. the leader is the leader of the party in Scotland as is always an MSP
their leader is not outside.
I said 'a bit' like the SNP. Obviously they're different, but the point still stands that I think Polanski could me more effective outside parliament than in it. Won't happen though cos that's been the central aim of his whole political career. Anyway I hope the green party are now scouring their activist base for others like Spencer who can relate to the working class because this is what will work for them in red wall and metropolitan constituencies. It says a lot that the best candidate Labour could find was a white middle class professional working in the consultancy sector.
I genuinely just give the website a flick over every few days to check where the rightwingers are pointing their ire.
You're doing it again - apologising for reading mainstream media that doesn't match the leftie echo chamber consensus! The Mail has done some of the best journalism this country has ever seen - just look at the line they took (at some expense) over Stephen Lawrence murderers.
That kind of reads like it was written by a Mail journalist. I see Baroness Lawrence is currently suing ANL.
A likely story! Just admit it... you're there for the Sidebar of Shame
What? There's more?
You're doing it again - apologising for reading mainstream media that doesn't match the leftie echo chamber consensus! The Mail has done some of the best journalism this country has ever seen - just look at the line they took (at some expense) over Stephen Lawrence murderers.
This explains a lot.
On R4 world at one. @ 13.15
and then a sole interview in the "diverse" area - Muslim(?) guy who obviously didn't understand the question regarding "family voting", which is all he was asked. BBC reporting - Pat Macfadden and Tim Montgomerie. followed by asking Caroline Lucas "what happened to the environmental policies?"
Like I said, I don't know what their instructions are, I have seen them speak with officials before, but only to ask about how many voters have been refused and stuff like that, and they're not always at every polling station.
I believe they have to be approved by the Electoral Comssion and it looks like anyone can apply
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/observing-elections-and-referendums
with Reform/Restore/Badenoch blindly aping Trump, you can bet that every conspiracy whackjob will be on this by the next GE, the prospect of an army of Tomy Robinson fans intimidating the crap in every polling station in a high ethnic minority area is not good
followed by asking Caroline Lucas "what happened to the environmental policies?"
She handled the (usual) dumb question well though. The Greens are right to focus on other policies, not because their environmental policies aren’t key, but because most of the public think that is all they have… because of lack of exposure to Green politicians on TV/Radio etc as regards other issues. Anyway, as usual, I miss her as an MP… one of the best we’ve ever had.
So, this "family voting". Has the group responsible for highlighting it made any reference to the ethnicity of the perpetrators - or is everyone just making assumptions?
I genuinely just give the website a flick over every few days to check where the rightwingers are pointing their ire.
A likely story! Just admit it... you're there for the Sidebar of Shame
> You won't BELIEVE who's all grown up and beach ready!
> Who's named in the Epstein files?
As opposed to the good 'common sense' parties like Reform, the Tories, and Labour?
Labour under Starmer are as bad as what we`d expect from the Tories .. Reform would be even worse, and follow Trumps USA.
And whilst the Greens and Plaid Cymru are well meaning - they are totally clueless, and would ruin the country, maybe not in the same way as Reform, but everything as bad.
Lib Dems anyone?
So, this "family voting". Has the group responsible for highlighting it made any reference to the ethnicity of the perpetrators - or is everyone just making assumptions?
And what's the accusation. That Muslim husbands coerced their wives to vote for the party led by a gay Jewish guy? And if left to their own devices they would have voted for the party that want to deport half their family instead?
So, this "family voting". Has the group responsible for highlighting it made any reference to the ethnicity of the perpetrators - or is everyone just making assumptions?
And what's the accusation. That Muslim husbands coerced their wives to vote for the party led by a gay Jewish guy? And if left to their own devices they would have voted for the party that want to deport half their family instead?
Quite - but everyone (in the media at least) seems to have jumped to just that conclusion.
Nigel posted about it this morning, he didn't specifically blame Muslims for last night but did mention Muslims being responsible in the past.
I don't suppose any Reform voters told their families how to vote.
I don't know why people feel they need to apologise or pretend they weren't really reading the Daily Mail. The front page is always rubbish but the rest of the paper is good. And the lifestyle pages are excellent
This has to be trolling. Anyway, that reminds me:
It seems pretty clear now that even if this family voting thing is true it wouldn’t have made a difference. It’s just excuses from Reform for running a bad campaign with a bad candidate.
And if left to their own devices they would have voted for the party that want to deport half their family instead?
Funnily enough, this is exactly what happened in the USA.
It seems pretty clear now that even if this family voting thing is true it wouldn’t have made a difference. It’s just excuses from Reform for running a bad campaign with a bad candidate.
I agree - sky news reports that 32 instances of family voting were reported. If there were 5 family members in each group, and all were coerced to vote green against their wishes, that's 5*32=160votes difference.
How much did the Greens win by, again...?
Still... surprised that half of voters were happy to sit back and let others choose.
I don't think it's so much that as saying we don't believe a word ofwhat any of you say. Also there's a certain number of people who have a battle just to deal with what the day throws at them voting won't even occur to many of those people
50% turnout for a bye election is a good turnout historically IIRC
I don't suppose any Reform voters told their families how to vote.
Funny you should mention that...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GreatBritishMemes/comments/1rgbar4/yess_sent_mine_and_mums/
"He just seems creepy to me. I don't trust him. something off about him."
That's you and Sarah Vine in the same camp. At least we know who your new love interest is.
I don't suppose any Reform voters told their families how to vote.
Of course not. They would have a sensible political discourse around the dining table covering all the national and local issues and then each individual would make their own decision.
50% turnout for a bye election is a good turnout historically IIRC
Yup. Turn out was actually higher than in the 2024 election by 168 people. Although since the registered voters had increased by 977 it resulted in a drop in turnout of -0.2 according to wiki.
Admittedly the 2024 was dire in terms of turn out but Runcorn had a 10k drop in turnout. Both are 2024 constituencies so no usable previous history.
FFS! It's almost as if they think families don't discuss politics/voting intentions amongst themsleves or go to the polling station together.
Nigel posted about it this morning, he didn't specifically blame Muslims for last night but did mention Muslims being responsible in the past.
Of course. And If I were a gamblin' man, I'd say coercion does indeed happen, but it happens with families of other demographics too, maybe to a lesser extent than with islamic families, but it happens.
That's why only one person in one booth at any one time, and pop your paper in the box alone, so a coerced wife for example can tell her hubby shes voting for one thing, and then vote for something else if she wants.
It wouldn't have helped Niggle, in this specific election, looking at the numbers, but it does help him paint a wider narrative for his existing and potential new sycophants.
I don't really understand what about this result indicates tactical voting as some are saying? Seems to me more of an indication that Labour have lost their core left leaning vote by presenting themselves as centre right. There's not really any alternative other than to vote green in that situation.
I actually wonder whether it tells us anything about the national view of the Tories - intuitively it feels like anyone previously voting Tory in a labour stronghold would be at the far end of the Tory spectrum and therefore more inclined to reform - I don't know that you can extrapolate that to a collapse in support in the Tory heartlands
Its a bye election. They give the chance for a protest vote and thats what this is, dissatisfaction with labour so the protest vote has gone green. Years ago it would have been lib dem. The tendency is that folk revert at the next GE
for the tories again it does not show much bar they are loosing votes to reform they have been squeezed as they had no chance of winning
I'm not so sure I agree that tactical voting played a huge part in the byelection example - I think reform got a lot of tory votes, and Green got a load of would be Labour votes.
Sure there's some crossover... a lot of older, grass roots labour supporters are isolationist, racist shit bags, but wouldn't ever vote tory, even though reform is just 'turbo charged tory GTi', they see the curent centrist (or center right if you want to be argumentative 😉 )version of labour as woke lefty liberals, because labour are not nailing immigrants to crosses, and setting them on fire, it's not good enough for them so they voted reform.
It's not tactical voting at all.
I mean why not go to the lib-dems then?
The mood change is in keeping with efforts over the last few months of Zack Polanski to change the direction of the Greens and to appeal to the void left by Labour.
It's in keepig with when Starmer moved left I'm 2024 to appeal to left wing voters and since then they've been told to clear off and their vote share has been decimated.
Progressive voters looking for a home.
The Lib-dems and Centrist parties are dying and the party offerings have evolved. The left want more radical change to fix the mess the last 40 years has created and the right blame foreigners and want libertarianism - Reform.
The fake middle ground is what Labour pretend to be and it's failed to solve problems.
The appeal of Greens has moved on from just environmentalism to a broader social justice argument.
Tacital voting is not in play here for the most. In the same way The Tory party is being replaced by Reform. That's clearly not tactical either.
Gary was correct, 5 months ago. Who would have thought Citibanks top forex trader turned political activist/commentator would know exactly what he's talking about? 😉
Part of Starmer's letter to the MPs.
"Instead of a Labour MP who can be a local champion delivering for Gorton and Denton alongside a Labour Government and a Labour mayor, the people of Gorton and Denton now have a representative who is more interested in dividing people than uniting them."
This man is now off his rocker.
He will further alienate his base. Zero humility and understanding of the situation.
Part of Starmer's letter to the MPs.
"Instead of a Labour MP who can be a local champion delivering for Gorton and Denton alongside a Labour Government and a Labour mayor, the people of Gorton and Denton now have a representative who is more interested in dividing people than uniting them."
This man is now off his rocker.
He will further alienate his base. Zero humility and understanding of the situation.
He's unfit to lead.
I agree that this is not a protest vote. The Greens are on the rise, they're getting a lot more attention, more councillors and their membership is going through the roof. The green messaging is so much more positive than Labour, Tory and Reform, just look at the reactions from Starmer, Farage etc to this result, I think that is only going to endear the Greens to even more people.
It's not tactical voting at all.
I’d say it’s the opposite. People could vote with their conscience and not consider Green to be a wasted vote.
Part of Starmer's letter to the MPs.
"Instead of a Labour MP who can be a local champion delivering for Gorton and Denton alongside a Labour Government and a Labour mayor, the people of Gorton and Denton now have a representative who is more interested in dividing people than uniting them."
This man is now off his rocker.
He will further alienate his base. Zero humility and understanding of the situation.
He's 'doing a David Cameron'... running scared of Farrage.... and look how that ended up.
its a protest vote not a tactical vote
its a protest vote not a tactical vote
Partially, probably a factor - I think a lot of locals who might have voted Labour wanted Andy Burnham to be allowed to run.
What defines a protest vote? I think if the establishment assume that these are just votes lent to the greens they may be in for a bit of a rude awakening at the GE. Reform have shown that the same two parties aren't the only option anymore and people are opening up to voting for who they actually believe in now.
However I guess I am forgetting the circumstances in which this election came about. Pretty hard to vote for a party whose last MP was openly insulting their constituents.
What defines a protest vote? I think if the establishment assume that these are just votes lent to the greens they may be in for a bit of a rude awakening at the GE. Reform have shown that the same two parties aren't the only option anymore and people are opening up to voting for who they actually believe in now.
However I guess I am forgetting the circumstances in which this election came about. Pretty hard to vote for a party whose last MP was openly insulting their constituents.
in this instance it’s a low risk option. It makes no difference to the parliamentary arithmetic. Reform still can’t get MPs elected despite all the coverage they get.
its a protest vote not a tactical vote
I don't think it was. If there was a GE tomorrow I wouldn't vote Labour (or Conservative, or Reform).
Reform is fortunately poisoned by the exodus of thickos from the Tory party, the Tories are now just rudderless drifting around towards the far right, and Labour is where David Cameron was in 2012.
I've always thought protest votes in elections are ridiculous. That's how we got Brexit.
It's not a protest vote as such. There is no evidence it is. It's a vote for things people want, like or agree with. 'We want progressive MPs' is not a protest - it's a support for improving material conditions.
Is a Reform vote a protest vote against Tory/Labour or a shift in political demands?
Same thing.
Hannah Spencer's message resonates with regular people. National polling supports this largely for the greens.
However to that end you could always call any vote a protest vote against the other parties/ideologies.
If you believe it's temporary - then time will tell. But as conditions aren't met for people expect the green vote to get stronger.
For now Tory and Labour are disintegrating against Reform and Green. Thinks are changing.
As an aside has anyone noticed how Tice and Farage clearly can't cope with the limelight when they lose? Absolute moaning whinging Reformers on a losing streak, empty of solutions.
Pathetic.
Reform is fortunately poisoned by the exodus of thickos from the Tory party
Well exactly. I thought you lot would be thrilled by this! It's clearly going to diminish working class support for Reform (probably not enough across the country as a whole) but will play well with rich home counties landowner types and businessmen/women who mostly/always voted Tory.
The Mail has done some of the best journalism this country has ever seen - just look at the line they took (at some expense) over Stephen Lawrence murderers.
In which century, other than that particular aberration?
So with Starmer putting our feet in the door on this war. (FFS)
I'm fixing my mortgage rate at the very least. Usual crap will likely pour from BoE - as inflation probably climbs as consequence of oil prices - they will pretend they can control oil supply issues with interest rates.
Money already flowing back to the dollar as risk-off.
There is a lag and many overlapping issues here but that's my thoughts.
And all the other hell that comes with it.
(Unless this is a short sharp job. History tells us it won't be.)
Money could flow into bonds and a thousand other outcomes here too.
So with Starmer putting our feet in the door on this war. (FFS)
I'm fixing my mortgage rate at the very least. Usual crap will likely pour from BoE - as inflation probably climbs as consequence of oil prices - they will pretend they can control oil supply issues with interest rates.
Money already flowing back to the dollar as risk-off.
There is a lag and many overlapping issues here but that's my thoughts.
And all the other hell that comes with it.
(Unless this is a short sharp job. History tells us it won't be.)
Money could flow into bonds and a thousand other outcomes here too.
Time to buy shares in KBR & Rip-its.
So with Starmer putting our feet in the door on this war. (FFS)
“No more illegal wars.”
as i said on the Iran thread, once iran started attacking its neighbours it wasn't illegal to get involved (we have defence agreements with several gulf states si theres a level of obligation)
according to the governments legal advice we could in theory do a lot more, at the moment starmer is doing the bare minimum
https://bsky.app/profile/bricksilk.bsky.social/post/3mfzr3xzztk2p
Don't come in here being rational kimbers. There is no place for that
Unsurprisingly I tend to agree, There was a huge amount of "I'm normally solid Labour, but they need a kick up the backside" and "If it was Burnham I'd vote for you" type comments The media are losing their minds (obviously) and I've seen some proper nonsense on SM. I wouldn't bet on the Greens retaining it.
Just reposting this here as it seems to have something to say about whether the Green vote was partly a protest vote or not.
Granted it is anecdotal rather than categorical, but nickc said he was canvassing for the election, right? So it's firsthand anecdotal evidence at least.
From that "Government legal position" (position not advice)...
"The UK condemns in the strongest terms the Iranian regime’s reckless and ongoing indiscriminate attacks against countries in the region. Such actions demand a united response to restore peace and security and prevent further escalation of the conflict."
No mention of what has prompted the Iranian action (ie the strikes against it). It is not a considered legal view you're reading there, it's a justification that chooses to ignore the very reason the war has no legal basis. We may well be doing the "minimum", but by doing so we are saying the USA has our support for further action in a war they have chosen to carry out.