Interesting views tjagain, don’t you think we should also ban second home owners as well or does your socialist utopian view just extend to things that don’t impact you.
Banning? controlling well perhaps.; Mines a rental. I provide a good quality home at 3/4 of market rent. Id be in favour of a ban on most short term rentals, proper controlled rents and proper enforcement of standards for the accommodation. Of course I could have saved the £12000 I spent on fully insulating it and refitting to a high standard and I could charge $3000 pa more in rent. but I prefer to try to be a decent person I am fully aware of my privilege on this one.
Stumpy - other countries do not have private education or medicine precisely for the reasons outlined. These things reinforce inequality - and these are happier countries with a higher standard of living than the UK
It’s not a personal thing tjagain, but just an illustration of something that is probably a far bigger issue in society than the state vs private school or private healthcare vs the NHS. Personally I think there should be a severe penalty for second home ownership especially when young people will be denied the opportunity to buy and this is a big factor. I would also welcome rent control and the UK is way behind other countries in this area.
However I also think you can’t cherry pick policies from other countries as you have to look at the complete picture. It is far too simple to believe that you can stop people from using private healthcare as they will just go to other countries. This already exists with some people going abroad for surgery and the NHS has to deal with the issues that arise.
IIRC at least one of the Scandi countries has no private schools.
https://twitter.com/BladeoftheS/status/1799867295512338920?t=NmdpMrE-YrToVWgm88XmXQ&s=19
Private schools and helathcare would not be needed if the state provision was as good as it could be. Canada has no private healthcare
BTW - folk like my tenant prefer to rent not buy - and her rent is £500 a month less than a mortgage on the flat would be.
Let’s ban all individual choice, hey why not ban individual thought as well.
This is called reductio ad absurdum and it is a rubbish rhetorical technique. A balance needs to be found in every country, I do not believe we have the balance right in this country.
Personally I'm not in favour of banning private schools (or health)....the government shouldn't be in the business of telling people what they can or can't spend their money on (well, within reason).
But people who choose to send their children to fee paying schools shouldn't whine when those businesses are treated equitably. If they suddenly find they can't afford it, tough. Maybe the schools could suck up the additional costs themselves?
On healthcare - the tories long term aim has been to try to create a two tier system where much is done privately with the NHS as a safety net. they are just about there as routine surgery and investigations now have such long waiting lots of folk end up going private. Back when waiting lists were low almost no one went private. ~the hospital I trained in had a 3 week wait for hip replacements for example - mid eighties
Waiting lists in the NHS are a political decision done deliberately to create a market for private healthcare. Large numbers of tory MPs and some labour ones are paid by private healthcare - Streeting is one. they don't bribe them for no reason ( and bribes they are)
'Banning individual thought' comes from the Tory garbled nonsense playbook, hardly 'individual'.
Two dogs - when private education and healthcare disadvantages others> actually reduces their chances?
This is called reductio ad absurdum
It was actually sarcasm in response to the rather extreme postings from TJ.
extreme? WTF was extreme about anything I said? 🙂
Reform UK ahead of the Conservative Party in a YouGov poll for The Times? Ooof.
Two dogs – when private education and healthcare disadvantages others> actually reduces their chances?
Dunno...tax them more? But you end up down a rabbit hole of "why shouldn't people who cost the NHS more as a result of their personal choices pay more tax"..smokers, overweight people, mountain bikers etc etc
zomg - thats amazing - I am beginning to think this really could be an extinction level event for the tories. fandabidozi!
We're celebrating because the even more racist party is more popular? Is that where we're at now?
The legal position described in Finland...is exactly the position of schools with charitable status in the UK! If it were as simple as that it would have been fixed already in the UK.
9% of "upper secondary schools" are private in Finland (which is more than the UK, where it is 7%) and they're all genuinely state-subsidised.
Canada has no private healthcare....our politicians need to take charge of this and copy successful countries where these things are not allowed 🙂 No private medicine, no private schools are good for a country .
https://macleans.ca/society/health/private-health-care-canada/
Canadian Medicare provides coverage for approximately 70 percent of Canadians' healthcare needs, and the remaining 30 percent is paid for through the private sector.[7][8] The 30 percent typically relates to services not covered or only partially covered by Medicare, such as prescription drugs, eye care, medical devices, gender care, psychotherapy, physical therapy and dentistry.[7][8] About 65-75 percent of Canadians have some form of supplementary health insurance related to the aforementioned reasons; many receive it through their employers or use secondary social service programs...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada
That may have been due to Brexit – however, I do wonder how [UK voter] volatility compares to other countries.
What did you find when you Googled it?
As far as I can see the scores were falling while Labour were in charge as well.
Oh, well, that's okay, then. So long as Scotland's education system has been getting worse under two different parties over 20 years, that's fine, nothing to worry about, and somehow this makes it untrue that it's worse than other systems.
@tj btw your comment earlier about Canada having no private health.....anecdotally (from a mate who had need of it, and two recently retired emergency medicine docs) , their health service is awful, and getting worse exponentially, particularly being hit by qualified docs and nurses heading in droves to the US where they can earn way more. (Probably why the Canadian health service is advertising here to tempt medics away to fill their gaps)
Yes PCA - so there are no private hospitals in Canada because all hospital type care is done by the state. Yes some stuff is not covered under medicare - like in most countries but there is no queue jumping by paying to get shorter waits. there is no private healthcare in the way we have it with private hospitals with no waiting lists.
On Scottish education - it shows its a structural issue not a party one - and guess what - its mainly underfunding. Decades of cuts thatthe scottish government has no real control over - health and education are the largest parts of the Scottish governments budget and these have undert huge financial pre4ssure as a result of decisions taken in Westmionster
Both Mrs FD and my parents were brought up on council estates. Mrs FD was the first person in her family to go to university. Both of us went to our respective state schools. 30 years ago we both had no money at all. We have both worked bloody hard for it, and now we are doing what we can to give our son the best start in life.
The same is true of me and my wife, except we don't see sending our kids to state schools as disadvantageous.
The Canadian system is strange even by the standards of other countries with socialized healthcare. France, Germany, the U.K. and Australia, among others, all take great national pride in ensuring medical coverage for every citizen, but you can still cut a cheque for a boutique appendectomy if you feel like it.
“The (Canadian) system is unique in the world in that it bans coverage of … core services by private insurance companies, allowing supplemental insurance only for perquisites such as private hospital rooms,”
What this means is if you want to pay for your own treatment, you can't if the government provide it.
Tj, as I said, anecdotal from 3 friends. I have no personal experience.
Reform up to second according to YouGov
there is no queue jumping by paying to get shorter waits.
From the article:
But for Canadians who can afford it, some medical care has become easier than ever to access. A growing number of clinics nationwide are selling MRI scans, prescriptions, pap smears and even surgeries—services once considered primarily the purview of the public health sector—to those who pay out of pocket. Canadians are spending in the ballpark of $100 to speak to a nurse practitioner, who will offer the kinds of care a family doctor typically provides; upward of $600 for an MRI on demand, bypassing lengthy waitlists; and $20,000 or more to travel outside their province to see a surgeon for a hip or knee replacement. There’s never been such a willingness to pay for timely medical care in this country—because sometimes it’s the only way to get it.
Privately paid health care is nothing new in Canada...
https://macleans.ca/society/health/private-health-care-canada/
yes - quite astonishing. It really could be an extinction event for the tories - Fandabidozi
The Canadian system is strange even by the standards of other countries with socialized healthcare. France, Germany, the U.K. and Australia, among others, all take great national pride in ensuring medical coverage for every citizen, but you can still cut a cheque for a boutique appendectomy if you feel like it.
“The (Canadian) system is unique in the world in that it bans coverage of … core services by private insurance companies, allowing supplemental insurance only for perquisites such as private hospital rooms,”
The (Canadian) system is unique in the world in that it bans coverage of … core services by private insurance companies, allowing supplemental insurance only for perquisites such as private hospital rooms,
You really should read the Macleans article, it's very illuminating. It's not true that "Canada has no private healthcare", it's not true that people don't get e.g. quicker surgeries by paying for them, it's not true that "all hospital type care is done by the state", and the so-called "core services" provided by the state don't include such "perquisites" like, err, treatment by paramedics and ambulance transportation...
https://macleans.ca/society/health/private-health-care-canada/
Or I could talk to my friends who live there.
On Scottish education – it shows its a structural issue not a party one – and guess what – its mainly underfunding. Decades of cuts thatthe scottish government has no real control over – health and education are the largest parts of the Scottish governments budget and these have undert huge financial pre4ssure as a result of decisions taken in Westmionster
So if it's all just a question of money, why did the Scottish government do so much worse in secondary education than the authorities in England when England also had austerity and Scotland has higher per capita funding than England?
Is there ever anything in Scotland for which the SNP is ever accountable?
Read the quote above. I spoke with a bunch of healthcare professionals while out there. this is what they told me. ambulances for example are free as is medivac from the yukon. Parmedics are free. You cannot buy surgery it can only be provided by the state. there are no private hospitals
"that "article" reads ;like a promo piece and its obviously very slanted. Believe it if you like - I prefer to believe what those who work in thesystem told me that some clearly far right rag with an obvious agenda
Is there ever anything in Scotland for which the SNP is ever accountable?
Oh yes - lots of stuff ( want to buy a new ferry?) but without control over large scale funding then issues caused by lack of funding is not one of them. Also schools are under LA control 🙂
Oops
That Flynn chap seems good on’t telly debates
Briefly wading into the somewhat nonsensical English education or Scottish education is better, I have noticed as a former engineer and now engineering manager, that you could normally (not always) tell if a Scots educated or English educated (graduate) engineer had written a report by the standard of English language.
It may no longer be true of course, as I’m basing my conclusions on folk who came through the school system a long time ago, and I will also leave you to guess which was better.
" with the really talented buggering off when they get tired leaving those who are marking time."
Ooh, thank you very much! And here was me thinking I was doing my bit to make the World a tiny bit better. In my experience it is not the talented that 'bugger off'.
Now the 3 largest parties in England have published their election manifestos, how do they measure up on NHS funding pledges? A thread >>
For the Conservatives, their costed pledges for 2028/29 came to an "extra" £1bn, which would leave their real terms commitment the lowest, at 0.9% a yr. Labour falls between the two, with their £2bn costed "extra" equating to 1.1% real terms growth a year to 2028/29 >>
With the exception of the Lib Dem offer, these figures would represent a tighter squeeze on NHS funding than ever recorded. Lower even than the Cameron/Clegg/Osborne austerity period of 2010/11 to 2014/15 when funding grew by just 1.4% real terms >>
Moreover, they follow 3 yrs where funding has been cut in real terms, meaning that were any of these funding scenarios implemented, health spending in England would grow by an average 0.4% real terms a year 2022/23 to 28/29 under the Cons, 0.5% under Lab and 0.7% under LD >>
All of those figures are lower than the rate of population growth – never mind complicated adjustments to capture the growing health need that comes with an aging population. The NHS, patients and citizens need politicians to be more realistic than this >>
From https://twitter.com/sallygainsbury/status/1801300033440006549?t=_VuLMePooZ50Y_bpE6cb5g&s=19
Not exactly a lot of daylight between the parties there.
ambulances for example are free as is medivac from the yukon. Parmedics are free.
https://novascotia.ca/dhw/ehs/ambulance-fees.asp
You cannot buy surgery it can only be provided by the state.
https://surgicalsolutionsnetwork.ca/services/orthopedic/hip/hip-replacement/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/private-surgery-hip-knee-replacement-1.6741461
There are no private hospitals
"There are currently 10 private clinics and one private hospital licensed in Ontario to perform surgeries.": https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-private-health-care-canada/
I don't think you are trying to mislead anyone, but a lot of what you're saying is just. not. true. I think I will leave it there.
Youre all wrong and also right. You get standard cover via medicare, and then you can juice it up by buying services privately. You will need cover cos you'll need to pay a gap fee at the point of service.
You managed to find a few edge cases - one private hospital in the whole of ontario. there are 4 in Edinburgh just to compare. Some states have token charges for ambulances - Yukon does not even for air ambulance
Its really a tiny part of the Canadian system - thorough research tho 😉
For me it's very simple,
I'm lib-dem at heart, but in my area the last GE resulsts were: https://www.calderdale.gov.uk/council/democracy/electionresults/results.jsp?election=517&area=42
So I will be voting labour, this will not a vote in favour or labour, it's more a vote against the conservatives and UKIP/reform.
I've never voted tactically in my life, but I feel I have no choice.
sorry if this been posted before
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1801295940860399978
that map is mental!
please let it be true!
