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Before Kelvin gets in I’d like to remind him of the Magna Carta and the idea of no taxation without representation. I pay NI in the UK which is a form of taxation.
Pull the other one. Your NI contributions from overseas are not a tax! They're completely voluntary and (unless you're doing it out of patriotism) you're gonna get back multiples of what those contributions are worth. nothing wrong with that but you're hardly an overtaxed member of a voiceless serf class.
Do we have CCTV from Betfred in Windsor High Street?
Don’t be silly, one has to go to Slough for that sort of thing. Like any event of financial consequences, it’s relatively easy to look for patterns post event. I’m sure the bookmakers did just this.
In my day job I deal with plenty of market sensitive information. The correct response is NEVER deal/wager. It’s a conflict of interest. Typically one person a year is convicted of attempting to make life-changing gains. Is a £100 bet going to be life-changing? Well it is now, but not for the reasons they’d hoped for!
The two candidates should withdraw. Forget “grave error of judgement” nonsense.
What a mess
I can see more names emerging whilst tonights debate is happening
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1803828868677013720?t=YwGhg43qlLcG9aHErHw3fg&s=19
The two things of note when I went through tebay at the weekend. Only Tim Farron posters and an STW T-shirt out washing the car.
In my day job I deal with plenty of market sensitive information. The correct response is NEVER deal/wager. It’s a conflict of interest.
Is the right answer.
I can't believe they actually chose to die on William Hill
Is the right answer.
For the little people
voiceless surf class
Residents of Cornwall have FTFY
Just seen Starmer's Twitter comment on Stop Oil. Authoritarian, right-wing, petrolhead, anti-rejoin EU, 10 u-turns.
Came close to tearing up my postal vote on the spot. Hopefully I'll have calmed down before I get to the post box.
I'm beginning to hate the Tory **** and he hasn't even been elected yet. This is Blair all over again.
^ that was my fault, apologies to the Labour crew
😉
Yeah that betting scandal
There's even more to come and it's 💥 https://twitter.com/Eyeswideopen69/status/1803860950908572170?t=MYxj6MOSBFf1pd21WtPW3w&s=19
I politely suggest you wife apply for British nationality, Winston. Congratulate her on my behalf for reaching that income tax bracket, I assume that's her margianl tax rate rather than what she pays as a proportional of her total income. I hope her passport is powerful enough to be able to live somewhere nice to enjoy the fruits of her labour in future years. And I hope it's somewhere that spouses are more welcome than the UK so you can enjoy the benefits too, Winston. Check my posting history you will find I'm very supportive of people in your wife's situation, and Kelvin is misleading you about how his criticism of expats being able to vote was phrased if you can be bothered to read back.
I see my references to the Magna carta and American war of independance were understood and appreciated by some at least- though I hadn't realised Reform referenced the Magna Carta. And you're right politecameraaction so long as I live long enough, fingers crossed.
I've been a tiny bit provocative on this with the Magan Carta and American Independance references because I'll admit you pissed me off Kelvin, years of being in favour of freedom of movement, anti Brexit, pro human rights and yet you are critical of nationals being able to vote in their national elections just because they're out of the country. Dual national is just that. If forced I'll drop one, till then I'm both, and some days pround of it.
Why do the SNP get a platform on this national debate on the BBC, given they're irrelevance to the vast majority of the population?
We have the BBC in Wales too....but i can't vote for the SNP and you can't vote for Plaid...
In my day job I deal with plenty of market sensitive information. The correct response is NEVER deal/wager. It’s a conflict of interest.
You'll be telling us next that it is a government's job to run the country in such a way as to benefit the majority of the people - not a few hedge funds and business owners who want to hire and fire employees at will.
🙄
Why do the SNP get a platform on this national debate on the BBC, given they’re irrelevance to the vast majority of the population?
Because they're the third largest party in the UK, an integral part of the UK political system, and their track record in Scotland poses interesting comparisons about how social, education, health etc policy is applied in other parts of the UK...?
I quite enjoy watching Sunak getting tetchy and shooting himself in the foot.
I don’t think they can withdraw after the ballot papers are printed;
Its when the candidate window closes which was 4pm on the 7th. After that regardless of whether the candidate starts praising Putin, nuts the party leader when they come to visit or for that matter dies they are still going to appear as a candidate for whichever party they were selected for.
The party can withdraw support and I guess in theory the candidate can announce they would resign immediately. Which in itself would be interesting to see. How many people blindly vote for the person belonging to a specific party even if not only the party had disowned them but the candidates had disowned themselves.
I quite enjoy watching Sunak getting tetchy and shooting himself in the foot.
No wonder he avoids the public like the plague. He really is terrible at all this with his little tantrums when the little people dare to question him
How do you think that went then Rishi?
Well lil rishi is looking like a massive prick here
Because they’re the third largest party in the UK
Really? As a percentage of UK voters?
Anyway, Sunak was awful in that debate and the vast majority of the audience clearly couldn't stand him.
Was enjoying the Spain v Italy game so only caught it when Fiona Bruce was explaining to Rishi why the ECHR isn't really a foreign court and the shouty Scottish gentleman pointed out that quitting it would put us alongside Russia and Belarus.
Rishi looked a right prat.
I only watched 10 minutes (of sunak, most of the program) and I felt he and starmer were pushed less by Bruce than Swinney and Davey
Why do the SNP get a platform on this national debate on the BBC, given they’re irrelevance to the vast majority of the population?
I asked the BBC to include them as I know the SNP wind you up.
I suppose the Tory youth vote simply cannot get any smaller.
GiveanX
A total of 2,898,265 people have registered to vote since the General Election was called on May 22nd. Of those who registered, 744,631 were under 25, and 896,825 were aged between 25 and 34, totaling 1,641,456
I'm going to guess the Tory vote share in those age groups is pretty close to a round number
The hilarious thing is that he - being devoid of empathy himself - does not realise that many older voters also don't like the idea of this kind of unfair treatment for their grandchildren and children. He's just shit at politics, and so are his advisors.
There are many things I don't understand but can still get my head around enough to have a conversation with my son about.
Blackholes.
How we can identify exoplanets.
How all life on earth likely stemmed from one, single, cell.
However, no matter how much I try, how much empathy I aim at the subject, how much I concede that I am a deeply average human being and simply don't know everything...
...I cannot get my head around the fact that there are people out there in the real world that are still undecided about whether to vote Tory or worse, absolutely are going to vote Tory.
Other than the Tories saying if they win they are going to nuke the UK to give us a bit of a clean slate to work from, what does it take to reach these people?
I is perplexed I tells ya!
theotherjonv
Full Member
A total of 2,898,265 people have registered to vote since the General Election was called on May 22nd. Of those who registered, 744,631 were under 25, and 896,825 were aged between 25 and 34, totaling 1,641,456
I’m going to guess the Tory vote share in those age groups is pretty close to a round number
Yup, and the other thing is that while there <are> teenage tories, they all registered to vote the second they could.
But, a good chunk of these are going to be for Reform- if you're 30 and are deciding to register to vote for the first time in this election, it's not likely to be because you've been inspired by the rump PM, Keir Starmer, the current SNP, or the... uh, lib dems I think it was? I reckon aside for people who've never been eligible before, Reform are going to be the ones motivating people.
A party source said that Williams, the Tory candidate in Mont gomeryshire & Glyndwr, had been in line to receive a knighthood in Sunak's dissolution honours list but would no longer do so following his bet, which he called a "huge error of judgment".
Gives you an idea of the caliber of (political) persons the Tories like to reward.
I'm not too fond of the whole honours system but at least they have exposed it as being totally unfit for purpose.
…I cannot get my head around the fact that there are people out there in the real world that are still undecided about whether to vote Tory or worse, absolutely are going to vote Tory.
Because in their view the tories have done a good job (for them) as they are largely detached from all the shit the tories have done (as am I and all the tories I work with)
Many don't like the last few years, didn't agree with Brexit and appear fairly moderate but will still vote tory because they always have and they can't ever bring themselves to vote Labour (they will make them worse off) and don't really see Lib Dems as a party that would ever be in power.
Their main concerns about Starmer are private school fees (VAT) increasing their outgoings and changing pension taxation so there massive pots are impacted (yes I know that is not even on the table as far as I am aware)
It is all about them personally, looking extremely narrowly without looking at wider picture of state of country and services and how that impacts them more than some taxes. They simply don't believe any other party would do any better.
People vote Tory to look after themselves.
People vote Labour to look after others.
People vote Tory to look after themselves.
That has not dated well. I'm always worse off after a dose of Tory. The party of poverty.
I’m going to guess the Tory vote share in those age groups is pretty close to a round number
The utter ****s in that age group will know that it won't damage them, but it is something nasty they can do to people who are currently young children. So a very small number.
That has not dated well. I’m always worse off after a dose of Tory. The party of poverty.
Which shows how screwed up the media/investigative journalism are in this country. But we don't like facts/experts in this country.
People vote Labour to look after others
That's not universally true either, a lot of lower income people vote Labour because they expect Labour to do more for them personally, nothing to do with the greater good.
Voters across the political spectrum can vote selfishly, and to an extent what's wrong with that, it's their vote.
But as a government you should be putting things in place that are for the greater good rather than playing to each person selfishness. But I guess people don't want that so on we go.
Other than the Tories saying if they win they are going to nuke the UK to give us a bit of a clean slate to work from, what does it take to reach these people?
they’d still vote Tory, but make sure they were out the country at the time, and had things in place to profit from the rebuilding effort!
either that or like Brexshit, would say “we didn’t think you meant that sort of nuke”
Madame Edukator and I realised there was prepaid envelope even from abroad so we don't have to find a stamp.
She's been googling the manifestos and candidates, she was looking for:
Pro European, at least a customs union
Humanism
Investment in health care and education for all
Reduced dependance on fossil fuels - investment in alternatives
Starmer's attitude to Stop Oil was the last straw, **** tactical voting, vote for what you believe in, we've voted Green.
I was a Tory minister – but I think we need a Labour government
Chris Skidmore
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/20/tory-minister-need-labour-government
If you think we need to move, at speed, away from fossil fuels, then please vote to stop your seat returning a Conservative MP. You don't have to be one of us unwashed wishy washy lefty types; died in the wool conservative Conservatives should vote to get the current mob running what's laughably still called the Conservative party out of the way of necessary progress.
Yep, it is a tricky one - the Green Party is who I want to vote for but with a slim (very slim) chance of the tory actually losing to Labour, who are the only party close to them, I may have to vote Labour who I dislike more by the day.
I reckon the Conservatives are greener than Labour, Kelvin; they keep more people in poverty thus reducing overall consumption. 😉
Labour don't need my vote, they'll get a huge majority anyhow, humanity and our environment need green voters.
Starmer’s attitude to Stop Oil was the last straw, **** tactical voting, vote for what you believe in, we’ve voted Green.
Agreed. World simply gets worse otherwise.
People seem to keep voting for the same stuff and then screaming why is it all so bad?
But this one will be a grown-up honest.
Shock horror, the people who have been moaning about Starmer being to blame for everything for 4 years aren't going to vote for labour shocker.
Amazes me that all these people have such hatred, because starmer isn't exactly what they want, that they are willing to vote for another party and potentially help the tories.
Amnesia from the last 14 years?
I have no love for labour (would vote green if we had pr), but i ****ing loathe the tories
Amazes me that all these people have such hatred, because starmer isn’t exactly what they want,
These are the same people that voted for a mythical Lexit, same people who use the phrase "but we won the argument" Folk who hold ideology in more worth than people.
You know........... morons
From @TiRed
Typically one person a year is convicted of attempting to make life-changing gains. Is a £100 bet going to be life-changing? Well it is now, but not for the reasons they’d hoped for!
As well as the ethical approach there is the financial balancing sum to consider. Will the prison term/penalty result in one earning less than minimum wage from the corruption (money gained over hours served). If the result is no then it's not worth the candle. If yes, is it significantly more than minimum wage, crack on! (The amoral approach).
Amazes me that all these people have such hatred, because starmer isn’t exactly what they want,
Errrr yes of course. Nothing to do with him lying to get control of labour and then purging the left from the party whilst welcoming the hard right. I cant imagine why someone on the left who after having it made clear they arent welcome in the glorious ideologically pure party might choose to vote for someone else. It really is a ****ing mystery.
The left of the party originally welcomed Starmer up but things went downhill when he allowed the right to declare war on the left and cheered them on.
that they are willing to vote for another party and potentially help the tories.
Wrong. People are voting for parties they think will represent them. Besides where is the problem? We keep being told Starmer has to offer the policies he does because thats where the votes are so he will walk it anyway.
Lets face it the centrists would **** off in a heartbeat if the policies they wanted werent provided as, indeed, they did in 2019 helping the tory hard brexit. So why are the left supposed to act differently?
So the frog faced c*** has now said that Andrew tate is a positive voice for men.
Honestly, we're in the mirror universe now, where you can say that about someone awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges and somehow remain a credible politician.
You know……….. morons
Indeed. The common clay of the new West.
I see the snp are now being investigated for misuse of ... wait for it..postage stamps. I mean really, in the grand scheme of things who gives a xxxx.
zippykonaFull Member
So the frog faced c*** has now said that Andrew tate is a positive voice for men.
I find this more repulsive than insider betting.
This needs more coverage from the media, the TV news in particular, than it gets.
The Tories are just incompetent idiots, Farage is a full on proto-fascist.
People vote Tory to look after themselves
Overly simplistic. As stumpyjon points out people can vote labour if they think it will help them personally.
Whilst in more recent years the thatcherite variant has mostly taken over there are still the one nation tories which does have a strong strand about helping others/society as a whole. The effectiveness of that can be debated but it is there and can be a reason for people voting tory.
Its worth noting Cameron, May and even Johnson did claim to belong to this branch (either directly or by saying that Disraeli and co were their inspiration) although the evidence for that is rather slim beyond the words.
Just needs Sunak to appear with GOV on the back of his suit jacket and I think we're there. 🙂
You know……….. morons
Indeed. The common clay of the new West.
Quite - but it's more like diamonds or gold. Stupidity is such a valuable resource if you can get to it first, mine it and monetise it. Farage is a prime exponent of the industry.
I see the snp are now being investigated for misuse of … wait for it..postage stamps. I mean really, in the grand scheme of things who gives a xxxx.
Or using tax payers money to support political campaigning which is a big no no. Think about the advantage the tories would gain (ok maybe not this year but...) if they could use mp expenses to campaign to keep their seats?
The tory mp (candidate currently) Tony Maynard is under investigation for using taxpayer funds for campaigning and there are probably a few more.
Its not just using money but also things like using an office for a political video and so forth.
I see the snp are now being investigated for misuse of … wait for it..postage stamps. I mean really, in the grand scheme of things who gives a xxxx.
Can someone remind me what the minimum value of things we are supposed to GAF about is? Apparently the £100 Tory bet was very very important but the SNP (supposedly) using public funds for partisan campaigning is not at all important? How do I decide whether I GAF about something until I know the exact value of the thing? I'm so confused!
So anyone who votes for what they believe in is a moron.
Cool.
Enjoy the echo chamber, I look forward to the next episode of mental gymnastics where you all try to convince people that a party who doesn't represent them or have any policies that they believe in is the best choice for them after 5 years of governance and no substantial difference to their lives.
If I vote for Green I'd literally be voting myself out a job but aside from the nuclear bit they're the only party with progressive policies I would support. If more people vote for them then the mainstream parties will start chasing those votes. Rather than the current vicious cycle we find ourselves in it would become a virtuous one.
So remind me, who's the ****ing moron here?
It really is a **** mystery.
You know that bit where folks in the middle of the Labour party like @binners, @kelvin and me keep reminding you every time time that this comes up, that not only did we vote for Corbyn both times, but went out an canvassed and supported our local prospective MP...
That.
You know that bit where folks in the middle of the Labour party like @binners, @kelvin and me keep reminding you every time time that this comes up, that we voted for Corbyn both times…
That.
Here's your regular reminder that I, along with thousands of others on the left, voted for Starmer to be leader.
I think this has come up every 5 or 6 pages on the thread.......we are lumbered with FPTP. So no one party is going to have all the policies you would like to vote for.
And because of FPTP, we have to hold our noses and vote tactically to give the Tories a bloody nose. Starmer knows he has to appeal to the centre cos that's where the numbers are to get into government. Suck it up.
But if you really want to see change in the UK, join the Electoral Reform Society and make PR an issue Starmer can't ignore. Then when we have PR you can vote for your left of left, your green of green with a clear conscience, and get the level of representation those policies deserve, and you might find it pulls the centre a bit more to the left.
Now that I have voted, postal vote has arrived and returned, what do I do for the next 3 weeks. The election is over, I hate football and I’m injured so can’t ride my bike.
So remind me, who’s the **** moron here?
TBF it is a rational argument for a certain kind of centrists to make since it gives them outsized power so long as everyone else keeps going along with it. That the cracks started with brexit and have been getting worse ever since is just something to ignore for now.
The alternative is for them to realise centrists are a spread out minority and then join the lib dems and take a more cooperative approach to things rather than demand that policies are written just for them and the majority of people (on the left and right) should just be grateful for any scraps of policies.
Starmer knows he has to appeal to the centre cos that’s where the numbers are to get into government. Suck it up.
The numbers arent in the centre. The numbers are on the left and on the right with some people who swing in the centre who sway elections but they are a distinct minority.
As for the electoral reform society putting pressure on Starmer lets get back to the real world. Remember the Labour conference was in favour of PR but it has been ignored as the centrists in labour will never support PR since thats the death knell for them. The centrists who do are in the libdems.
The only way to put effective pressure for PR is for people to vote for parties which offer it. If you "suck it up" then next election you will be expected to again.
The numbers arent in the centre. The numbers are on the left and on the right with some people who swing in the centre who sway elections but they are a distinct minority.
What is your source for that Diss? Happy to be convinced, but I'm not sure if that's correct.
I don't think you get PR by voting for PR parties, I think you have to make it such a big issue through non-aligned interest groups and force the issue. Otherwise we'll all be here in 5 years grizzling about the iniquities of FPTP again.
Grizzling about labour not being left enough has been going on since at least the 80s. How much change did the rich kids selling Socialist Worker outside Sainsbury's on the Lewes Road effect? How much change did Derek Hatton and Militant effect in the 90s? How much change did Momentum effect in the 2010s? I don't think dogma appeals to the wider electorate.
Labour have only been successful at getting into government when the leftie lefties aren't trying to eff it up
You know……….. morons
Takes a bit of joined up thinking and the ability to hold more than one idea in your head at a time but if you really tried hard maybe you could realise that maximising the size of the Labour majority is not a good enough reason to vote for a party and leader you fundamentally don't agree with.
Many of us morons are worried that if Starmer's manifesto gets the ringing endorsement you all seem so keen on the country is going to be in serious trouble in 5 years time.
The Tories are finished for this election cycle. The important thing is the lessons Labour takes away from this election. If everyone accepts the Tory-lite ideaology that Starmer is pushing then nothing significant is going to improve in the next 5 years and things could even get worse.
That then sets the stage for a turbo-nutter Reform/Tory government with a massive majority at the next election. Just think of the fun PM Farage will have the UK's lack of checks and balances in government.
Are the morons here the ones who might be taking a long view or the ones who can't see anything beyond the morning of the 5th July?
Given the level of undecided voters the massive majority is not guaranteed, and with people making a protest vote it just raises the likelihood that Labour could have a small majority.
The morons comment was just an excuse to quote blazing saddles really.
Honestly at the moment I just want the tories out and will see what happens. I could see that in 4 years time when the labour approval drops significantly discussion of pr becomes a lot more active, this is my hope.
I would prefer to vote green or libdem but will hold my nose and vote labour simply as fptp does not and hasn't ever allowed me to vote in a way that my vote actually counts.