rone
Full Member
A kid was dropped off at my local independent school in a helicopter today.
I'll admit I'm a little naive to the ways of the world but wow, I just feel like I've always lived in a parallel universe on occasion. I can't get my head around statements like that.
It is fascinating how a number on here want to be seen as being anti-racist and at the same time supporting apartheid genocide (whilst cracking 'jokes'). Pure sociological phenomena.
Unsurprisingly, on tonight’s debate everyone is getting well and truly stuck in to the little fella and him finding something more pressing to do than honouring the D Day veterans
I saw a comment online earlier, "the guy that wants people to sign up for National Service can't even do one full day of it."
Genius.
BillMC
Full Member
It is fascinating how a number on here want to be seen as being anti-racist and at the same time supporting apartheid genocide (whilst cracking ‘jokes’). Pure sociological phenomena.
Its not for me to defend other posters but he didn't say that at all.
There are rich people that decide to educate their children in the independent system.
There are rich people that decide to educate their children in the state system.
The are some obscenely rich people that can afford to educate their children in the independent system. In my experience these are the minority.
There are some moderately well off people that can’t really afford it but make sacrifices. In my experience these are the majority.
If your measure of wealth is the type of car that they turn up to school in, you would be quite shocked by the sheer variety parked outside the school gate. Sure there are some nice cars, but there are some really old ones and kids wearing hand me downs. I see the same mix outside the local state schools. Those cars by the way are nothing more than an outward show of wealth but I suspect that most are leased and the days of car ownership being a measure of wealth are long gone.
Whilst I wouldn’t pretend for one moment that the families that elect to educate their kids in the independent sector are hard up, it certainly isn’t purely the preserve of the obscenely wealthy.
The stretched middle are an easier target than the super rich that can afford to avoid tax payment, or the corporations that make huge profits yet pay little in tax. Maybe I am a little biased but there are more lucrative targets (albeit harder to hit) than the families paying for their education for whom a sudden 20% increase in fees was neither foreseen or affordable.
“ Labour and Conservatives both don’t understand or don’t want the public to understand that if you press the button in retaliation, we are all already dead. It’s irrelevant in a global nuclear war (which all nuclear wars would be) if you have a deterrent or not as the two main players would wipe out the northern hemisphere”
I’m fairly certain most are aware of the outcome of such an event.
If your measure of wealth is the type of car that they turn up to school in, you would be quite shocked by the sheer variety parked outside the school gate. Sure there are some nice cars,
It's an absolute measure of wealth.
I can guarantee you every 3 or 4th car is snazzy as hell.
I mean I saw a MCLAREN ARTURA COUPE going up the drive the other day.
I'm sorry but this is not de rigueur down the street at the statey and neither is a ****ing helicopter in a deprived post-industrial mining town.
(The point being here is they can afford the VAT.)
I’m fairly certain most are aware of the outcome of such an event.
If that were the case it wouldn't be such a strong part of the two main party's defence policy's. Our ballistic missiles are more to DK with Anglo American relations than defence.
A kid was dropped off at my local independent school in a helicopter today.
I went to two private schools is the 80's - helicopter drop offs were relatively regular at both back then (once term or so). I'm also pro putting vat on private education and removing charitable status.
The current debate on TV...
Nigel not the firebrand I expected so far, almost subdued.
Banana intolerant?*
*No, I still dont think it should have happened but it did.
“ If your measure of wealth is the type of car that they turn up to school in, you would be quite shocked by the sheer variety parked outside the school gate.”
One of the wealthiest families in my group of friends, big house in the South East, pays more tax than my gross pay iirc.
Battered 2003 Toyota Previa, very little works and the spare wheel lives in the car due to the carrier rotting off.
But yeah, folks pushing the narrative of kids being pushed out of fee paying schools might be surprised how little a large chunk of the country, who struggle to simply pay the bills care.
There are some moderately well off people that can’t really afford it but make sacrifices. In my experience these are the majority.
I’m sorry but if you can afford private school fees, with or without VAT, you are not ‘moderately well off’
Simply remove one of those three words and you’re there
Surely 'No, I still find think it should have happened AND it did.' Finding and thinking!
jeez, this is awful, with Mordaunt and Rayner just yelling at each other.
Plus side - Mordaunt isn't going to increase support on this performance.
Jesus Christ - Mordaunt the economy is dead - flat-lining at best.
They've got some nerve with this economy is doing better lark.
Green (Carla Denyer) has actual ideas and push back - Labour should listen up.
She's articulate too.
Farage is like a decaying fag that won't go out.
BillMC
Full Member
Surely ‘No, I still find think it should have happened AND it did.’ Finding and thinking!
My mobile is a bloody traitor! 😁
Are you saying that there is an obscenely expensive school where the kids get dropped off in helicopters and super cars nestled somewhere down a driveway in a deprived post-industrial mining town?
I can certainly see how that juxtaposition would grate.
Our son’s school doesn’t have a driveway. It doesn’t have a helicopter pad. It doesn’t have stables. It is nestled on a normal street in a regular town. It is a selective school that offers a great education and charges for it. Since there are no selective state schools in the area, if we want the best education on offer, this is way to get it. My sister lives in Kent where selective state education exists. I wish it were the case in Surrey.
We happen to live in Jeremy Hunt’s constituency which looks increasingly likely to give him a bloody nose. We also live very close to Charterhouse where he was educated. That is by no means a normal school, but it would be wrong to tar every independent school, or judge the families that send their kids there with the same brush. To do so would be inversely the same as treating every state school with the same contempt as the very worst of the breed.
BTW, being successful and fortunate doesn’t automatically make you a bad person. Since the dawn of time there have been some cavemen that had better caves than others. It’s just society and fact. Not all poor people are lazy. Not all rich people are exploitative bastards. Wealth, success and good fortune don’t automatically go hand in hand with being an awful human being. There is far more bitterness and judgement on this thread from people with an axe to grind and a chip on their shoulder than any other corner of STW.
Farage is like a decaying fag that won’t go out.
Lol. Very good.👍
Mordaunt trying to go with the tax lie again and getting called out on it.
The greens and the lib dems are coming off well, the snp guy is just irritating however he did bring up brexit that made the frog faced one look sour.
I want us to have pr so we might get some change in this country
One of the wealthiest families in my group of friends, big house in the South East, pays more tax than my gross pay iirc.
Because they have lots of money and / or assets.
Let's not do the 'Nick Ferrari cars-gaffer taped-together' so we can get the kids in private school lark.
My partner works in a private school 95% are proper wealthy.
Tiny amount on bursaries.
Besides we have state system if you can't afford it.
I'm happy for them to exist but I tell you when I work for them I pay their friggin' VAT in my company because they opt out due to basically 'fiddling' (my words) the charity / private straddle.
It's horse-shit.
Are you saying that there is an obscenely expensive school where the kids get dropped off in helicopters and super cars nestled somewhere down a driveway in a deprived post-industrial mining town?
100%
My partner has worked their for 11 years. So I accept their contribution to the community/employment but things have to change.
I'd have liked to see more robust and clearer intervention by the host when the nonsense £2k figure was mentioned multiple times. Couple of minutes ago she just let Morduant and Rayner bicker about it. Should have just muted Morduant the moment she said it.
Mordaunt needs to shut the **** up
grahamt1980
Full Member
Mordaunt needs to shut the **** up
It looks like this is going to be the Tory strategy in the debates. Shout loud, shout often.
Imo, it's doing her no favours, or her party.
BTW, being successful and fortunate doesn’t automatically make you a bad person
I’m certainly not saying that at all, because it would be nonsense.
What I’m saying is that paying private school fees is so inconceivable to the vast majority of people that the very idea of it represents an absolutely laughably unachievable impossibility.
That’s worth bearing in mind with your comments
“
Because they have lots of money and / or assets.
Let’s not do the ‘Nick Ferrari cars-gaffer taped-together’ so we can get the kids in private school lark.”
Not at all, just pointing out plenty of well offfolks don’t spend money on cars.
I don’t even know if his kids go to private school.
If it helps, we went to the same comprehensive and his father in law was aghast that someone of his ‘type’ could earn so much money.
He’s simply very talented and has worked very hard in his chosen field.
But relying on a tax break to afford this luxury, for that complete phase of a child’s education was always a risk.
There's lots of things that are VAT rated: not for profit sports, tuition, healthcare... STW coming out in favour of VAT on physios, dentistry and cycling clubs...?
(TBF I do see that they're just not all the same).
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-education-and-vocational-training-notice-70130
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/health-professionals-pharmaceutical-products-and-vat-notice-70157
If half these dimwits understood that public spending is made via the BoE and not using tax receipts they wouldn't be able to argue with the words 'unaffordable.'
Lack of resources/labour is the restriction, not money.
The only thing I’m taking from this debate is I’d like to place Mordaunt, Raynor and Farage on a boat and tell them to **** right off, and leave the other parties to form a coalition
There’s lots of things that are VAT rated: not for profit sports, tuition, healthcare… STW coming out in favour of VAT on physios, dentistry and cycling clubs…
Worse than this - independent schools have special allowances to not pay VAT on certain supplies. Leaving the supplier to effectively pay it on their behalf.
It's a distortion of accounting. But then again the wealthy have always done better with creative accounting.
a **** helicopter in a deprived post-industrial mining town.
Sounds a bit nouveau riche to me. Football club owner...oligarch...heir to a chain of chemists that married a billionaire's daughter?
Our son’s school doesn’t have a driveway. It doesn’t have a helicopter pad. It doesn’t have stables. It is nestled on a normal street in a regular town.
I support your right to put your kids into private school if you want, but RGS Guildford is not nestled on a normal street in a regular town. Guildford is prime real estate itself and the RGS is slap bang in the middle of the High Street. You might not have a driveway but there is a large 'quad' frontage, a large all weather sports pitch and car park (where you could land a helicopter, TBF) and a large sports complex on a second site at the foot of the North Downs.
If it's nestled on a normal street in a normal town then so is Eton.
Think Angela meant 'abject' not abstract.
Yeah scrap the main ones and let the smaller ones run together! (Barring Farage - he can be social events manager.)
You wouldn't dare be late for Penny Mordaunt's dinner party would you? Jeez.
What Farage said: we shouldn't be afraid of doing stop and search in areas where knife crime is most prevalent (audience claps), even if those areas have a high proportion of BAME people in case we get called racist
The SNP are the only party to have truthful policies on Brexit and immigration.
The SNP would like to install a migration barrier between Scotland and England, Ireland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It would have to negotiate a new Common Travel Area agreement with the UK and Ireland to reduce the impact of that barrier. Scotland would also need a trade barrier between Scotland and England & Wales in order to join the EU. Did the guy mention any of that?
he likes to paint eagles don't you know
TBH I'm an on the fence voter, if anything this debate has pushed me away from labour and back to the lib dem's and green (no SNP candidate in the north Cotswolds 😂). Angela Rayner needs to stop bickering with Penny Mordant.
Not much relevance to their policies on EU sand immigration
PCA 🙂
This debate is a compelling reason to tear the whole political system up.
Right now the global politics of the last 80 years feels out of date.
We have dictators waging wars. We have extremist politicians and extremist regimes persecuting their own people. And that’s before we even get started with the hotbed of hatred and vitriol that is STW!
Anybody have any bright ideas? None of the bunch represented on that stage tonight are the answer in my opinion.
Mordant and Rayner have not come out of it well, but fortunately Farage’s mask of joviality has slipped to expose his vile real self underneath. Sadly that might make him even more popular with his fans.
Angela Rayner needs to stop bickering with Penny Mordant.
Given the fuss over the "2k tax increase" for every family and the lie still being propogated right next to her, what choice did she have?
Pandemic was totally funded by the BoE buying 450bn worth of bonds with BoE created money. A zero sum balance sheet exercise.
It didn't cost anyone a penny, Mordaunt.
"72.In 2020, the Bank of England conducted three rounds of quantitative easing, which raised the total amount of Government debt owned by the Bank from £425 billion to £875 billion (an increase of £450 billion). Minutes published by the Monetary Policy Committee set out the Bank of England’s explanations for each round of quantitative easing since March 2020:"
Apologies to Plaid and English green supporters - I do not know their stance on Brexit and Immigration. I assume similar to the SNP
Battered Nissan drops kid in boater and blazer at private school...
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, Lord?
But when the taxman come to the door
Lord, the house lookin' like a rummage sale, yeah
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no millionaire's son, no, no
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no
Summed up nicely by The Creedence, I feel.
Don't see that Rayner has much choice given the tories are going to lie and lie about labour.
I just wish they would shut mordaunts microphone off when she won't stop shouting
Like the single audience member clapping Mordant before she finished then noticing no one else clapped, so decided not to clap when she did finish!
Made me chuckle anyway.
No knock out blows tonight as expected and I doubt a single vote will be changed on STW and very few UK wide.
We already know the parties and the ramifications of whom we vote for, nothing has changed.
Apologies to Plaid and English green supporters – I do not know their stance on Brexit and Immigration.
Your apology to the SDLP can come later 😉 I'm sure they're used to people on the "mainland" who ignore their existence.
It's funny, most I know talk about the Greens being cranky rainbow lovers - but they're just about the most pragmatic on the panel.
Angela Rayner needs to stop bickering with Penny Mordant.
She didn't have a choice as mordaunt was going for her. It's clear from both debates that that is the Tory strategy, shout down everyone else - it's all they've got. Next debates need to have a hand of god to turn off mics when the topies are so disrespectful of the process. Everyone else was pretty good .
But yes, clear that there are lots of other perspectives (green, SNP, plaid, LD) worth listening to, and PR would allow us all to voice a more nuanced choice. Farage is just objectionable
grahamt1980
Full Member
As much as I hate the idea that farage would be an mp if we had pr, it is a a m sacrifice that is worth it to make the changes needed.
I sort of want him to see a bit of actual, conventional, (limited!) political power AND accountability... He needs to explain why he hasn't changed the lot of the people of Clacton as it turn out simple policies for complex issues dont work. Particularly when based upon migration. He's had it far too easy throwing shit from the sidelines.
Dear god, the Tories have put weapons grade dimwit Laura Trott up as a commentator. Everyone else obviously had found something better to be doing. She’d struggle to find her own arse using both hands
And who on earth is the Reform party bloke
I’m happy for [private schools] to exist
I'm not, I'd ban the damn things. If the kids of the rich and powerful had to go to the local comp you can bet state schools would start to get a lot more investment. The R&P need to mix with the rest of us, and we with them.
The idea that the very organisations that do more than anything to entrench inequality in society and makes an absolute mockery of any pretence at a meritocracy are given tax breaks and get to claim charitable status is absolutely nuts!
The real problem I have with it is that a hugely disproportionate amount of the most important jobs in the country end up being occupied by utter morons just because they went to the ‘right’ school.
Just look at the present cabinet
How does that benefit society?
I note RGS Guildford has 900 pupils and £28m+ of turnover (£28k/pupil) and @£40m of assets. £340k of donations last year.
No, not wealthy at all. Just your average school.
Can we just drop the private school thing - been done to death already!
If the kids of the rich and powerful had to go to the local comp you can bet state schools would start to get a lot more investment. The R&P need to mix with the rest of us, and we with them.
The idea that the very organisations that do more than anything to entrench inequality in society and makes an absolute mockery of any pretence at a meritocracy is given tax breaks and gets to claim charitable status is absolutely nuts!
I think it's genuinely difficult to come up with a coherent argument against the above statements.
MoreCashThanDash
Full Member
Can we just drop the private school thing – been done to death already!
Just wanted to stay I posted my comment before I read your one. My post wasn't mean as a "poke in the eye" reply to your comment. 👍
Can we just drop the private school thing – been done to death already!
Here here. There are bigger things at stake on July 4th and beyond.
Labour will win, VAT will be charged on fees, whatever will ensue will ensue.
The deep divisions that exist in this country and the deep rooted cracks in our society won’t be fixed easily. Labour aren’t the answer, but it won’t stop them being the next bunch to have a go, so it won’t be long before we have the chance to see how they do.
Can't wait to see the polling next week.
Farage on TV tonight is likely to lose this Tories even more votes.
ITV news asking if this is the start of a complete collapse of the Tory vote. 👍
Labour aren’t the answer
That seems a tad premature. Just out of interest what do you think is ‘the answer’?
The only realistic options on offer are Labour or more of the same. The polls are presently pretty illustrative as to what most people think of that particular choice
Some people would argue that Labour offers a slightly more polite version of 'more of the same'. Certainly in terms of the Thatcherite economics that Reeves seems to be such a fan of.
You're not wrong though, given the lack of PR then it is a binary choice in most seats, and overall that means either Labour or Tory. Kier seems fairly cold on PR though. It'll be interesting to see what Reeves' pursuit of growth has delivered by 2029.
Battered Nissan drops kid in boater and blazer at private school…
so the parents don’t provide the nanny with a car and make her use her own!