That could cause chaos in Scotland. Is it a kilt or a skirt?
A kilt is a skirt both by literal meaning of the word and examination of the object. Or to put it another way, kilt-dom is a social construct...
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/kilt
It’s pretty obvious what liberal means,
You sound like those folk who talk bollox and then when asked for evidence say "google it, I'm not your researcher" etc.
I know what I think "liberal" means, but what do YOU think it means - you were the one to use it and then backpedal when challenged.
kilt-dom is a social construct…
Kilt-dom sounds like a slightly niche kink.
Edit: NB - this article is really about Sunak rather than Starmer - not sure why Starmer's name is in the link!
This is the first time I've EVER had any respect for him. To come out and challenge this, to use the word that should be long-dead, is good leadership.
There! I said it! It feels weird...
Edit: I'd really like it if all the other leaders (apart from Reform obvs) came out in clear solidarity with him here.
Local Tory candidate just knocked on the door to see if there were any local or national issues I wanted to ask him about. Fair play to the guy.
Luckily for him, I was just sitting down for a post workout meal, so I declined his kind offer.
Kilt-dom sounds like a slightly niche kink.
There's a naughty man loose aboot this hoose
What’s a “liberal”, YOUR definition?
...
lets just replace ‘liberal’ with ‘people’.
...
Who are these “people”?
...
FGS it’s obvious. The people who oppose the death penalty.
Sooooooooooo the people who oppose the death penalty are all liberals. Got it.
I just thought I’d pop in to this thread and catch up.
How the hell have you got on to the death penalty?
See the image I copied a couple of pages back.
one from the Women’s Party
Is that one led by the woman fresh out of Westboro Baptists who looks like she'd eat anyone who disagrees?
#blamecougar
I get that a lot.
In other news,
The Tories are officially toast. The Daily Mail is shitting itself, today's headline is "IT'S NOT TOO LATE TO STOP A STARMER SUPERMAJORITY!" They don't just think they're going to lose, they think they're going to lose very very badly indeed.
I had clearly misgendered two trans men who had chosen to use the mens toilets
Transvestites or transsexuals?
the tories give right wing extremists a voice, and end up being drown out by that voice
Just had some election materials in the post. The Tory one was really weirdo. Sent as an actual letter, it was just a bit of bollocks on the front. Then the back was a full page "Kier Starmer needs you to vote reform" you'll hand him a 100 seats majority etc. Hardly inspiring stuff. Then again whilst he's nice enough for a Tory, my MP David Rutley could well be the singularly most uninspiring man on the planet.
I was wholly unsurprised by its blatantly deliberate deployment followed by an immediate backpedal when challenged. Boy should consider running as a Tory MP.
I guess this is the perfect test of the much claimed idea that we want these scumbag racists and would-be fascists standing for parliament because then, and only then, they'd be out in the open with nothing to protect them from the spotlight of scrutiny.
We'll see if
a) We still have the right sort of media to provide that scrutiny
b) Anyone takes any notice.
So Rishi and Nige have basically suspended campaigning while they hurl accusations at each other, both doing a good line in faux outrage (racists in being racist Shocka!!).
Labour and Lib Dem campaign managers must be cracking open the bubbly and laughing their tits off
It’s quite enjoyable watching the right eat itself. 5 years overdue unfortunately. That’s when this should have happened
"This is the first time I’ve EVER had any respect for him. To come out and challenge this, to use the word that should be long-dead, is good leadership.
There! I said it! It feels weird"
Yeah it hurts him when he receives prejudice and abuse for something which he doesn't choose to be. But he's happy to be just as prejudiced against Trans people who also don't choose that.
"transvestite or transexual".
**** off and educate yourself. These are not acceptable terms these days.
There’s also the small matter of Braverman and other members of his own party referring to immigrants as ‘a swarm’ and talking of ‘an invasion’, completely unchallenged by him
Not remotely ‘divisive and corrosive’ language, eh Rishi?
He’s no different to Farage, stoking division with toxic rhetoric to suit his own ends. It’s a bit late in the day to start getting offended by it now.
And does anyone think for a second it might provoke some soul-searching about his own language and dog-whistling?
I wouldn’t hold my breath
This whole ‘right eating itself’ would be a lot more entertaining if I wasn’t so worried about the US leading us into democratic annihilation. If Trump gets the Whitehouse then it’s Farage 29 for us and looking at the way Europe is heading I can’t see much help there.
I feel this whole gleeful Tory’s are toast meme isn’t going to age well when we are faced with proper naked facism.
What’s so annoying is the UK is ahead of the game once again but this time fear there will be no fighting on the beaches.
See the Tory party political broadcast after the C4 news was using the £2k Labour tax hike figure that they were told not to. Also highlighting that pensioners will be 'hammered' by the retirement tax (around £36 in reality) and that Labour may be in power for 'your lifetime'.
Really is project fear desperation.
“transvestite or transexual”.
**** off and educate yourself. These are not acceptable terms these days.
Maybe you can educate me. What are today's acceptable terms? For the record I have nothing against trans people at all but I guess I don't know the current nomenclature.
Cross-dresser for the first one, slowoldman. I'm as ignorant as you of why transexual is unacceptable( edit: if it is, Google says it's ok). However having a potty mouth and telling people to **** off on STW has always been unacceptable, perthpixie.
Transgender is a broad, umbrella term and is good for non-transgender people to use. “Trans” is shorthand for transgender. Transgender is preferred over transvestite or transsexual, older terms which do not accurately describe all transgender people, and which also have a clinical or stigmatizing connotation, although some people still use them to self describe.
I'd avoid unless the person you are describing or talking to use the terms themselves.
[edit - although a better term I wouldn't use cross dresser either in this case as not all trans people cross dress, and not all cross dressers are trans]
But this isn't a trans thread beyond it being (for most) a minor factor in their choice next Thursday, so let's not make it one.
Transgender is preferred over transvestite or transsexual
But surely transgender doesn't describe BOTH those groups I apparently mistakenly labelled does it? Anyway, I've done my own research and apparently I should have used the terms cross-dresser and transgender. So, these chaps in the lav, were they cross-dressers or transgender?
see my edit. Labelling trans people as cross dressers isn't correct, and as I put before can have a stigmatizing feel to it ('just a man in a dress')
Ultimately, I'd suggest letting the person / community decide on their labels rather than argue semantics over whether there's totally accurate matches. It's not about what you think it should be.
OK, not a trans thread.
Apparently some embargo worthy Saturday paper stuff for tomorrow
Presumably election related....
More reform racist revelations?
Starmer plans tax raid on toddlers?
Sunak is joining Trump campaign?
Right, so saying to a "man" wearing a skirt/dress/makeup/whstever "So what are you? A transvestite or transexual?" is like saying to a black person "So where are you really from?" It's unnecessary, offensive and de humanising. It's a person, a human being just trying to get through the day as anonymously as possible. Note a woman can't be a transvestite. Most women wear trousers, hoodies, t-shirts etc. It's a term designed to mock "men" who don't confirm to gender stereotypes.
@edukator sorry if I upset your delicate sensitivities. My partner is a trans women and yet again she has come home in tears after a day of abuse and catcalls just because it's a sunny day and she went out in a skirt. "oh, freak how many gold medals are you going to steal off the real women" was a particular highlight.
Being trans might in theory be as protected a characteristic as race, colour or sexualality, but the reality is it's the joke one. The one that if you report abuse you get "well pal, what did you expect going out in a dress".
Tories and Labour are as bad as each other on this. I don't like the SNP, but at least they tried. They did it badly and the battle with the feminists (which I totally understand} was totally unnecessary, but at least they tried to make life a tiny bit better.
And breathe... It's been a very trying and upsetting day. Again. 🙁
I don’t like the SNP, but at least they tried.
They not only tried, they weren't hostile too.
In the 70's we knew no better and the stuff on the telly wasn't helping - it's 50 'kin years later, and it feels nothing has changed.
Personally it was brought home to me +20 years ago when a work colleague said to me: "I don't choose to be gay, I am gay.".
Since then I've tried to let & support folk to live the life they want to live, WTF has it to do with me anyway.
“This is the first time I’ve EVER had any respect for him.
**** him, **** him and **** him again, about time he got a taste of his own party’s vile rhetoric thrown at him.
@edukator sorry if I upset your delicate sensitivities.
Nah, you just devalued what could have been constructive content with insult.
I get the "where do you really come from", I'm an immigrant, and depending on how I think it's meant answer the question without complex or just keep replying with where I am till they make fools of themselves.
I don't cat call.
I don't get beyond "bonjour/bonsoir" unless a stranger takes the lead.
I've dressed up in my wife's clothes and taken my kid to school when there was an idiot anti-gay, anti homosexual preacher outside the school handing out homophobic leaflets for his church (I live 100m from the school so when I saw him went home and changed for the confrontation) - the support I got from other parents showed how much support there was for trans/homo - take heart from the acceptance of the majority and ignore the few idiots because there will always be idiots.
And cross-dresser seems like a perfectly reasonable non gender specific term for someone who dresses in clothes usually associated with the other sex.
All good but to pick up on the end statement.
My son dresses in clothes that match his identity but which in general are non-gender specific (you conflate sex and gender but I'll assume not deliberate) It's unremarkable for women to wear 'men's clothing' and so barely notable.
Perthpixie's partner dresses in clothes that match her identity. And gets comment as a result, because 'women's clothes' are for right or wrong more identifiable. But she's not cross dressing, hence labelling a trans person as a transvestite, or it's more acceptable version as a cross dresser is potentially denying them recognition of their identity.
So while some may use or accept the term, i'd say while it might be technically correct, it fails the be nice test to routinely refer to a trans person as a cross dresser.
You don’t have to, you know, @Edukator. You could actually not.
Do or don't do what?
Good points, theotherjonv, made without excess or insult. I can't think of any time I've used any of the terms mentioned in the last few posts except on this forum. In real life it doesn't warant comment, people are people. I know if people are homosexual trans or whatever if they've made it public but they have names and it seems more natural to refer to them by their names than their gender or sexual preferences.
Hahaha! It seems from electoral calculus that reform sport has panned!
Halved the seats with them going lab/tory equally, hahaha 😆
That is apparently because the mainstream are scared of them and attacking them unfairly. Maybe not being a bunch of racist ****s who would make inequality worse would be a good start if you don't want to be attacked.
Although I agree with their policy on raising tax threshold to £20K but should increase taxes for higher earners to offset it rather than giving higher earners more as well.
Not sure if you've seen this one, russian interference in election from the ABC
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-29/uk-election-pro-russian-facebook-pages-coordinating/104038246
Although I agree with their policy on raising tax threshold to £20K
Everyone does.
It's fair and balanced and brings min wages and basic pensioners out of the tax scheme. Everyone should get behind it. Same with the Bank of England QE interest payments that are made to banks. Both solid ideas.
They're used to hide some pretty nasty stuff, though.
But it's OK, it's not a manifesto...
Everyone does.
It’s fair and balanced and brings min wages and basic pensioners out of the tax scheme. Everyone should get behind it.
Yet only Reform are proposing it. If anyone should be proposing it you would expect it to be Labour wouldn't you but you know, fiscal rules...
Sunak probably hated the P word not so much as it’s racist bit because he’s of Indian heritage. I worked with a British Indian guy and he used that term to describe ****stanis - absolutely hated them due to partition.
So much respect for the balanced way in which you discuss the trans debate @theotherjonv. I don't recall seeing your username before @perthpixie....sorry to hear of the abuse that your partner has received, here's hoping for a more tolerant and inclusive future.
Sunak probably hated the P word not so much as it’s racist bit because he’s of Indian heritage. I worked with a British Indian guy and he used that term to describe ****stanis – absolutely hated them due to partition.
I absolutely cannot stand Sunak as a politician and person, but I think that is unfair. He can tell his own story but I would be very surprised if he and his family hadn't received a lot of racial abuse growing up, and he is still getting plenty of it now. I am aware of his father-in-law's associations with Modi and I believe Sunak's references to loving crispy bacon had a dual role (and is bullshit). But all the same I don't see any reason to suspect he's annoyed by Farageite racial abuse because he really hates ****stanis. I think he is entitled to a presumption of innocence on this one.
