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[Closed] U.S. Presidential Election 2020

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Anybody else missing the Cold War? At least you knew where ypu stood back then. During that period democratic capitalism was obliged to show it self to be the better moral system. With the fall of the comunist block there came a moral vacuum, the need to be seen as a better system put pressure on the West to make moral improvements, ones that would better represent humanity than the communist system.

We all know who filled that vacuum, a couple of nutters throwing rock's from a cave and America (and the UK) took the bait. Thus a new but highly asymmetric enemy was created. The bogeyman. This new bogeyman is far more powerfull than the old one, you can't just rely on the state to point nukes at them to scare them off, you have to go out and get yourself an AR 15....or two..or three. The new enemy is no longer over there, he's all around you, anyone could be a terrorist.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 4:47 am
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The NDAA bill which Trump vetoed (veto was then overridden by the Republican Senate), contains, tucked away, a clause which prevents a sitting president from deploying the military domestically without explicit authorisation from Congress.

Whether this was already there, or inserted because of talk from the likes of Michael Flynn about sending the military into swing states and re-running the elections there, who knows.

Trump isn't exactly known for his diligent reading, perhaps that passed him and his team by. People are trying to strengthen safeguards against authoritarianism, and some of the stunts that Trump may try in his final days. Navy has already pulled the Nimitz air carrier group away from the Gulf, presumably to make it harder for Trump to attack Iran.

It's remarkable how you don't realise the fragility of your constitutional safeguards until someone turns up who is really prepared to test them.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 8:58 am
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Lin Wood makes me wonder what you have to do in the US to be certified insane and dragged off. He literally described himself as potentially the reimbodiment of Christ to his law firm partners, and is calling for execution of Mike Pence.

Not sure the British diver who sued Elon Musk for defamation (over the 'pedo guy' jib) picked the right lawyer to pursue the case - I often wonder how the hell he managed to lose, but Lin Wood's involvement seems to explain that one.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 9:21 am
 MSP
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The current, seemingly outrageous shenanigans point to an acknowledgement that come 2024, due to the shifting of the democratic tide there won’t be enough angry white men and women combined to win by democratic means

If only that were true. While the GOP has actively disenfranchised millions, the democrats have done the same by simply ignoring them. Biden just seems to hope that Trump populism is a one off, and disappears when his presidency ends. He has made no indication of looking to fix the underlying problems that created the moral void that Trump stepped into. Biden's cabinet is hand picked by corporate sponsors and devoid of any progressive influence. Their wasn't even an ounce of support for Bernie's bid to increase the stimulus checks, from the party leadership and president elects team, even after it became clear the president would sign off on it. Right there was the first moment that they could have proved they put people first and they failed.

The anger will still be there is 4 years, because the same problems will be. Another Trump will be able to lie his way into power because the establishment is a greedy oligarchy and doesn't want to solve the wider problems faced.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 9:32 am
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Come 2024, Trump would rather a victory for the Democrats then the Republicans without him at the helm.

His run for the nomination was an attack on the republican party. He ran with the treat that if he wasn't nominated he'd run as an independent and split the vote - ie the threat that he'd rather he was instrumental in handing victory to the democrats than support a republican victory without him at the helm. The Republican Party didn't want him or like him they just got hijacked by him - which they deserved really.

They used to have to accept that there was a nasty, spiteful subset of republican voters who they had to throw a few bones to make up the numbers in elections. Now they know if they don't directly address and amplify that sector of the electorate all is lost.

Ted Cruz and his plucky band of 'rebels' threatening not to ratify the election result are just guys who have their eye on 2024 - they can't afford to take any action now that would be held up as treason in a Trump tweet four years from now

We are all basically animals, monkeys with flamethrowers.

Its nice to ba able to take something positive from all this


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 9:44 am
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That Donald.win site is something else 😳


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 9:54 am
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The NDAA bill which Trump vetoed (veto was then overridden by the Republican Senate), contains, tucked away, a clause which prevents a sitting president from deploying the military domestically without explicit authorisation from Congress.

sadly this is not true

fact checked


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 10:15 am
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there’s no such thing as ‘Moral Progress’ in itself.

I disagree, at least in part, but that's for another thread.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 10:21 am
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sadly this is not true

fact checked

Dammit. Apologies.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 10:23 am
 grum
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That Donald.win site is something else

If they are to be believed lots of them are turning up in DC on the 6th and trying to work out how to get around the difficulties of flying with guns. :-/

One interesting thing on that site is that in amongst all the utter insanity there are some people on there who express sympathy for Bernie Sanders and the way he was treated by the Dems etc. Some of them actually do support Trump because he isn't part of the corporate-political establishment. Doesn't seem to matter that he is a total crook himself though.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 10:26 am
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Navy has already pulled the Nimitz air carrier group away from the Gulf, presumably to make it harder for Trump to attack Iran

they've changed their mind about this too


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 10:26 am
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I disagree, at least in part, but that’s for another thread.

Two steps forward.

One back.

There was a really good piece on waitbutwhy about the US presidents through history and how some of them have spent all their term undoing the rubbish the previous president did, and how others have been lucky enough to move things forward from a reasonable starting position.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 10:32 am
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they’ve changed their mind about this too

Hurrah for my reliable news reporting!

Could be a long 16 days.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 10:58 am
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That Donald.win site is something else 😳

It's incredible.

There are people on there who are calling for an all out civil war.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 11:25 am
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https://twitter.com/GaSecofState/status/1345753643593687040

I had the pleasure of watching the #TrumpTapes saga play out on social media in real time.

It was entertaining watching the mental gymnastics of the Trumpets.

Immediate defence was "it's fake, it's not him".

Once it became obvious it was him, on a call that he tweeted about, they switched to "okay, but it's edited to make him sound bad.. clearly spliced together from different calls, you can tell because.."

Then they went for "okay, it is from the call, but it is out of context. Where's the rest of it?"

Then the full tape got released and it was just as bad so they pivoted to the new narrative of "Trump did nothing wrong. He was giving Raffensperger a chance to come clean" and/or "Trump wanted to catch Raffensperger on tape so he can prosecute him"

Now they've added the "That tape was illegal - Raffensperger is going to jail" diversion on top (even though call-recording is expressly allowed by Georgia law).

It's amazing stuff. I'm struck by how similar it is to talking to flat earthers.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 12:27 pm
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It’s amazing stuff. I’m struck by how similar it is to talking to flat earthers.

Politics is the mind killer.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 12:31 pm
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There are people on there who are calling for an all out civil war.

Yep. Plenty of military-cosplay "patriots" fantasists saying very similar things on Twitter, TikTok etc.*

The Proud Boys are expressing anger and surprise that the police don't seem to be going along with their bull in DC.

* (And if you think that's bad, stay away from Parler!)


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 12:33 pm
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From family experience, the behaviour of the Trumpets is WAAAY too close to mental illness, for me, specifically persecutory delusion disorder:

Linky

Linky

Linky


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 12:43 pm
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I think a lot of people read Trump wrong on this. Its not he is attempting a coup or to subvert the election. As a psychopath he knows he is a winner always and cannot lose - so by his logic the election was rigged. It must have been because he always wins and cannot lose.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 12:50 pm
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Raffensperger on Fox:
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1345387225127776256

Transcript: "People can’t handle the truth sometimes, because they’re very disappointed in the results, and I get that. I voted for President Trump also, but at the end of the day we did everything that we could. We did an audit of the race. President Trump still lost. Then we did a full recount. President Trump still lost. Then we audited the absentee ballot signatures on the envelopes in Cobb County and we found only two votes out of 15,000 that we went ahead and surveyed along with GBI – only 2 out of 15,000 that weren’t done correctly. And they were actually the spouses that filled out those applications for their spouses or signed the signatures. And so we had a safe, secure process and people have to realize that you need to get out and vote, and that’s how you win elections."


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 1:41 pm
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so by his logic the election was rigged. It must have been because he always wins and cannot lose.

His whole life has been full of failures - failed businesses, failed relationships, his whole presidency is pretty much a list of things he's failed to do - he walks away from each catastrophe able to convince himself that he's making a smart move - you know, convincing himself he's not losing at business but winning at bankruptcy. I don't think emotionally he's ever had to to deal with failing like this - losing a popularity contest- you can't take a positive from that.

I think if he'd lost the 2016 election that would have been a win - a win at almost becoming president. But this is a rejection of him as president


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 1:52 pm
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I think if he’d lost the 2016 election that would have been a win

It would have been a rigged election stolen by deep-state actors and RINOs.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 2:00 pm
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It would have been a rigged election stolen by deep-state actors and RINOs.

I think whats especially sore is his loss doesn't carry with it a collapse of the republican vote - across the board, down the ballot paper people voted for replicas, even very trumpy republicans, but not for him. So he can't even blame the republican party


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 2:10 pm
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The anger will still be there is 4 years, because the same problems will be. Another Trump will be able to lie his way into power because the establishment is a greedy oligarchy and doesn’t want to solve the wider problems faced.

With the added bonus that the person running for president may be able to achieve objectives far more competently, without a trump style ego.

In other words, Someone far worse than trump. You only need to look at history to see what can ride in over the top of one sh*tstorm is a far larger one.

Biden and the democrats biggest mistake is not to head this off at the pass.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 2:47 pm
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Poopscoop
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I’m reminding myself here that we are basically witnessing a failed coup by a president of the United States, aided and abetted my a significant part of his own party (and electorate).

I feel like this is getting lost because of how spectacularly it's failing. But even the most embarassing failures are still proof of the attempt. The shittest coup ever but still that's what it is and that's pretty bloody scary.

Biden's going to have far too much to do in this term anyway, covid alone will dominate, the broken transition will make everything harder, and it's way harder to fix things than it was for Trump to smash them. And taxes will be a constant issue, and of course there'll be a total lack of cross-party coopoeration. And those things are all going to stop any real reform, so yes they'll end up at the next election and the one after that and probably the one after that with all the pieces in the same place. Maybe the next person who tries to overthrow an election won't be such a complete halfwit and won't have surrounded themselves with yes-men and wastes of space.

Basically, the people who might take advantage will be learning every possible lesson while the people who should be moving to fix things will be mostly going "shit, that was close but we got away with it, let's move on to another massive problem"


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 3:12 pm
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“shit, that was close but we got away with it, let’s move on to another massive problem”

Yes, the most important thing to recognise is that Trump is the symptom, not the cause.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 3:45 pm
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In other words, Someone far worse than trump. You only need to look at history to see what can ride in over the top of one sh*tstorm is a far larger one.

The Tea Party movement has usurped the Republican Party in a similar way to how the ERG has hollowed out the Conservatives. The agendas are driven by far-right "think tanks" that receive large amounts of money from some of the most odious individuals who openly state that they hold democracy in contempt.

Biden and the democrats biggest mistake is not to head this off at the pass.

The Biden administration may have to make some very tough decisions to stem the flow of dark money into American politics, something that will be bitterly fought every step of the way by well funded and highly motivated lobbyists. Ultimately, it'll come down to whether the whims of a small number of fascist billionaires can be contained.

A Gerald Ford type pardon won't be sufficient, the grifters have to be held to account and made an example of.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 3:59 pm
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Yes, the most important thing to recognise is that Trump is the symptom, not the cause.

Exactly this. The reason why we are where we are is because the limits on individual donation were removed in 2008ish thanks to Tea Party lobbying. As a result, one billionaire can dictate policy, while a PAC of small individual donors cannot. A limit on individual donations must be reimposed and enforced, which won't be achievable with a Republican majority, unless a small number of GOP senators can be persuaded to flip.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 4:05 pm
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We can map how specific decisions made and legislation passed by the Republican Party have led us, step by step to where we are today. It is so simple, if you remove the limit on individual political donations then you put democracy up for sale.

Looking back, you can see how Reagan's decision to change broadcasting regulations, allowing opinion to replace fact sowed the seeds of fake news. Similarly the courting of white evangelicals helped create the ethnic nationalism we are seeing today., identity politics or what!

Perhaps the most significant piece of legislation in the current context was the legalizing (or lifting of a ban) on assault weapons during The Bush presidency. The fact that there are millions of assault weapons in open circulation, (mostly in the hands of right wing nutters) definitely has a role in how Trump is playing things out right now. Quite a few elected republicans have suggested that American 'patriots' have no recoirse left to them other than violence, given that the corrupt courts and left wing media have called the election for Biden.

Take away the long guns (or rather had they not been allowed to proliferate due to the Bush legislation) and Trumps mad gambit wouldn't have the traction that it has. The greatest threat to American democracy is definitely domestic terrorism.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 8:40 pm
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Just great to watch those mad claims about Georgia being debunked one-by-one.


 
Posted : 04/01/2021 11:29 pm
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https://twitter.com/phscoop/status/1346236734435110913


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 12:49 am
 grum
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The greatest threat to American democracy is definitely domestic terrorism.

It doesn't seem to be getting much coverage that I've seen but I heard on a podcast that the Nashville bombing was done by someone who followed q anon type conspiracy theories .


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 1:01 am
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Really enjoyed that Gabriel Sterling speech. I doubt it will make much impact on the Trumpets, but he covered each main "fraud" talking point and shot it down nicely.

The fact that he and the Secretary of State are both Republican should in theory carry some sway, but that logical contradiction doesn't seem to bother the nuts.


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 2:34 am
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Hopefully Trump steps down on the 19th, then Pence says “Actually Donald, you know what........”


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 9:55 am
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"https://twitter.com/phscoop/status/1346236734435110913?s=20"

I thought people were allowed to burn flags in the US. That arrest smacks of double standards, no matter what your view on it is.

Trump does seem to be descending into madness though. Quite strange to watch him without his swagger.


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 11:05 am
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You can burn a flag you own as a protest... burning a stolen one is another matter.


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 11:07 am
 kilo
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You can burn a flag you own as a protest… burning a stolen one is another matter

If only it had indicated the theft in the quoted tweet.


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 11:13 am
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I see the word "stolen" in the WP sub on the link preview in the tweet. And "taken" in the words of the tweet itself.


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 11:16 am
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Missed the stolen part, thanks for pointing out my utter thickness. Good lads. Twice the thanks for Kelvin obv for pointing it out twice.


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 11:21 am
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If you'd followed the news, the neo-fascists Proud Boys rampaged through D.C. and stole and burned the flag from a Black church. Then they were stupid enough to boast about doing it to reporters.

Here's the tweet. The words "taken" and "stolen" are important clues in this:

https://twitter.com/phscoop/status/1346236734435110913?s=20&=#8221


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 11:28 am
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But rampaging through DC burning flags is the new norm no. I have no doubt that the stars and bars burned were not looted.

But thanks for updating me just in case I had missed it a 4th time.


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 11:31 am
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I have no doubt that the stars and bars burned were not looted.

One of the secrets to lawlessness is to not publicly boast about what you've done. When a bunch of white supremecists attack Black churches and publicly confess, it makes it really hard for the police to not arrest them.


 
Posted : 05/01/2021 12:38 pm
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