I recently bought a used chainsaw. A Stihl ms440. I assembled it after delivery and was surprised and a little disappointed to find it smokes a bit at full throttle. I took off the exhaust to get a look at the piston and it looked ok, so my presumption was that it was running rich.
I don't have a tachometer to check the revs at full throttle so took it to my local Stihl agent. They suspected that it was running rich but before they would tune it, they insisted the carb would need to be ultrasonically cleaned. My reaction was, wouldn't I be able to clean it sufficiently with a aerosol of carb cleaner and compressed air. They said no. So I left it with them.
They asked what two stroke oil I had been using. For years now I've been using the two stroke Super Sexy oil from Northern Arb Supplies, their listing says it's suitable for Stihl saws. The Stihl agent said it wasn't and that I should only use the manufacturer's oil, they said it was synthetic where the Super Sexy oil was mineral based.
I would imagine that the latest generation of chainsaws would require a synthetic oil, but my saws must be around twenty years old now, my 038 might be thirty years old. A quick google suggests a mineral oil would be OK for them.
Am I unwittingly through my penny pinching and ignorance damaging my saws by not using Stihl branded synthetic oil? What are you guys using? Have you had any issues by not using the oils specified by the manufacturer or agent?
I use whatever is on offer at the motor factors. Not had an issue with Stihl or Husky saws in 10 years of use.
To be fair to them your carb will be varnished(orangey/brown tinge to metal) after all those years I'd have though.
Carb cleaner didn't even touch the varnish on my m120x lawnmower carbs.
Seafoam in the ultrasonic bath brought them up like new.
As for 2 stroke -lawnmower , hedge trimmer , brush cutter and generator all get bnq or euro car parts finest.
Every saw, strimmer and combi unit failure my friends and family have had in the last year has been (according to dealers) as being caused by using the wrong two stroke mix, or incorrect mix ratios. I know for a fact that in two out of three of these scenarios this is bullshit, but unless you really know your onions or want to go to war on social media or small claims court, you're ****ed.
Meanwhile there are pros running saws on straight petrol for years, just to find out how long it'll be till they die. And of course for shits and giggles.
Ran my lawnmower on straight petrol once by accident..... It didn't last long at all.....
Suzuki engines Allan.
That was a barrel and piston+rings stupidity costs.
Whatever is the cheapest in wilkos..
Ahh 2 stroke oil mixture, type, brand possibly the biggest bull**** conversation in the motocross world.
1. Buy Opie fully synthetic 2 stroke from eBay (5 litres) made to the Jaso Standard.
2. Mix at 32 to 1 (5 fluid ounces oil to 5 litres petrol)
3. Use in 2 stoke mx, enduro, chainsaw, strimmer etc.
I have raced 2 strokes for over 40 years - not a single engine failure (or strimmer, chainsaw etc)
I use stihl oil, I just buy a 5ltr drum off ebay
Varnish in carb is very possible; you have no idea about how the previous owner used or stored his saw. So a carb clean is reasonable, IMO.
But any good 2 cycle oil should be just fine!
Usually the more 'premium' offering from Husqvarna or Stihl at 50:1
Currently Stihl Super, the 5l can comes with a neat little spout that wedges in the handle.
Carb' jets on newer saws are a bit more finicky, so sensitive to fuel and blockage/wear, hence sonic clean.
We're mostly running Husqvarna XP range saws day long and whilst the old saws would take just about anything in the tank, I can't see the new ones doing that as they are lighter and far more powerfully tuned.
I'm using stihl oil now basically because it's easy to quickly mix an accurate batch of 5l fuel.
The thing is, McM, that you don't know if the saw you bought has an original or a copy barrel and piston - could be the latter and it's knackered.
Thanks for the advice folks.
I've no idea how the previous owner used or stored the saw.
I've sent off for five litres of the Sthil synthetic oil, I'm curious to see if there's any difference in performance.
I was quite surprised how much more quickly a 70cc saw goes through a tank compared to a 57cc saw. The big 90 and 100+cc saws must guzzle fuel
Sharkbait, that's true. I'll take the cover off when I get it back and see if it has any OEM casting numbers on the barrel. It was otherwise in very clean condition.
Husqvarna 50:1 oil here in Husqvarna saws, have had no probs. Using super sexy chain oil though. That usually is decent value.
Your saw is roughly equivalent to our 372XP, which gives us about 35-40 minutes of working time for a tank, obviously depends what you're doing and how you count time.
Used a 3120XP for cross cutting a huge sycamore, 4' bar and required topping up mid-cut. Stihl 066 with 28" bar was using a tank for 2 cross cuts on a 40" dia. beech.
Modern Carb's really aren't as resilient, softer metals and finer holes , previous replacements on our main saws probably only did 300 hours, the old 254's are measured in years.
Must look up this super sexy oil 🙂
I use Husqvarna LS+ in everything, but only because my local Husky dealer has a permanent deal that when you buy a new tool you get a "free" five-year warranty on it if you buy a bottle of their 2-stroke oil. I figure I'll be buying oil anyway, so I'm getting the extended warranty for the difference in cost between that and cheaper oil (about $5)
Seems ok, anecdotally it doesn't seem to gum up the carb if I accidentally leave some in the tank for a month or three between uses, which I've had happen using other oils. I use it in a mix of Stihl, Husky and cheapo non-brand engines/tools.
Cheap stuff in my Husky, have been for at least 7 years, with no problem.
You can tune a saw by ear, a little rich is ok, lean is risky. Listen for four-stroke-ing (a burble burble sound). You want it to four stroke a little ( burble burble clean, burble burble) at wot and no load, but not smoke excessively, then go clean when in wood. If it does that it's just rich and unless it's been modded you probably don't need to worry about its revs. If the carb had been played with and is way off, return to factory and start again, h and l one turn from fully lean. Right now I can't remember if that's a turn clockwise or counterclockwise though! Think it's one turn counter clockwise from fully in.
Fuel left in the saw for a while is bad, the aromatic compounds oxidise to varnishes and some of those a not soluble in fuel/ carb cleaner. The ethanol can absorb water and gel. Plus the ethenol can attack the fuel line and swell it. I use shell v-power as it is often e-free (I believe BP guarantee the premium fuel as e free) where as 95 Ron is E10 by law I believe. I also add startron stabiliser to slow formation of gums and use stihl green which I understand also has fuel stabiliser. I tend to mix it slightly stronger than 50:1, not much, just a bit to be safe. Main thing is, store the saw empty and only mix a little fuel at a time so it's never really really old, although I've had stuff a year or so that's been fine.
I went from my ms180, drinking a 250ml tank an hour, to my 038 super which drinks dry it's tank that's almost 3 times the size in less time... Big gets thirsty!
By the way, how's the Magnum? I messaged the guys on ope to check they would welcome you but they were in a strange mood! They did say the seller you bought from is a ****. One had dealt with him before, got a saw and found the clutch siezed. After some questions it transpires the seller pressure washes his saws.... It doesn't do clutches and bearings a lot of good. Hope yours is OK.
Now you have a 440 I'll message them again.... One of them had been playing with 440s, and hybrids. Porting and timing advance. They are a beast! Struggling to get it to clean up under load with a 25" bar and getting to silly speeds on the tach.
Cheap. God knows how many decade old my 039 Stihl is but its still starts 4th pull and doesn't smoke. Not so much use nowadays but still does about 20+ tons a year. Doubt the carb has ever been off. We have several newer Stihls eg a MS180, that do seem to have less robust carb.
The Magnum? It was a leap of faith. I wouldn't buy from him again. The saw was super clean on the outside but was caked in saw dust and oil on the inside under all the covers. I took them all off and cleaned it with compressed air
Out of the box the recoil starter didn't work, the cord would pull but the dog wouldn't engage in the in the starter sprocket. I pulled the cover off and lubed the plastic dog and it worked fine. OIl gushed out from under the thin metal plate between the chain and the body. I took it off and cleaned behind it. That staunched the leak, but I've ordered a new plate. They are only four pounds. I checked the carb, it needs a new diaphragm and valve kit, but it runs ok. It really just needs a good service. The piston looked clean through the exhaust port
I bought it as a project I could fettle. I felled a dead Elm over the weekend and it worked well, it has oodles of torque.
Ive got a couple of big Chestnuts to fell come harvest time. I bought the bigger saws for that job. I've only used 034s before, so the step up to the bigger saws is quite an eye opener. I'll maybe buy a bigger bar for the Chestnuts.
I just use the stihl or husky pre bottled stuff and add 5 litres dead. That' for disc cutter stihl saw and I get moody if others put they'e own mix in if borrowing it.
Try Aspen 2. No more mixing, great fuel with a long shelf life and increases the life of machinery. I use it in chainsaw and brush cutter and think its well worth the price.
https://aspenfuel.co.uk/find-out-more/
Try Aspen 2.
For 4 x the price of homebrew I'd want it to cut the tree down itself, then clean up, sharpen the chain and make me a brew...
I went to collect my saw this morning following its ultrasonic carb clean at the Stihl agent.
'Oh, there was a problem with your saw, didn't you receive our call?'
'No', checks phone for missed calls and finds none from them.
'What was the problem?'
'When we dismantled the carb, the gaskets were destroyed'
'I see'
'We can replace them' handing me a job sheet.
OEM gasket set £83, fitting, testing and VAT, total £124.
'But we can't be certain it's just the gaskets and diaphragm that's damaged, It may need a new carb, at £130 plus fitting and VAT' helpfully adding, 'We've sold a lot lately'
'If you could just give me my saw and ultrasonically cleaned carb back then, I'll pay for what you've done and source the parts online and I'll do it myself'
Is handed back a poly bag containing dismantled carb, screws and shredded gaskets.
'Are you sure you wouldn't like us to fit a carb kit?'
'No thank you, I've fitted several over the years'
'Well, in that case we can only really charge you £10.
Given that I was quoted £30 or so for the carb clean, I handed over my tenner and left.
From the car park I ordered two carb kits online for £6.50 posted through my letterbox.
I doubt I'll use their services again.
In other news, I also fitted a new carb kit and self serviced the 038 Magnum.
On Sunday I cut up most of a mahoosive wind blown Ash that has been lying for a few years. The saw must be thirty years old, it has made in West Germany on the nameplate. The torque it has is incredible. It made my day
I use Echo powerblend.. but im a bit of an echo fanboy..
Check the impulse line mcmoo. The tank end, apparently the spigot it pops on isn't barbed on 440s and they can pop off. Symptoms look like a carb fault I'm told.
Dealer prices are one thing, and maybe fair given stihl hold the price up and they have overheads, but the service seems very poor. They just want to do simple jobs and don't seem to be able to think and diagnose a problem.... Rather keep selling parts and simple services. Poor.
Thinking about it, if the carb diaphragm is shot there's a fair chance the fuel line is too, i'd consider a new one and a fuel filter
When I reassembled the carb I noticed the impulse pipe wasn't barbed, at least it slid on easily. I'll get a full service kit for it.
I would have happily paid for a decent service from the agent, I accept the overheads etc, but the mark up on their parts is stratospheric. It's no more than an hours work to strip, clean and reassemble the parts and test.
The saw started and ran fine, it was just a tad smokey. With the carb off, I could see the inlet side of the piston, you could still see the machining groves in it, the exhaust side was fine too. Hopefully the carb clean will have done the trick
sounds good. The Magnum sounds very nice.
Disappointing to find a local dealer that is rubbish. Ours really has burnt all its second chances now I think, the list of crap service and inability to repair is endless. Not to mention never having any stock, not even logger tape refills.
So we are resigned to driving over an hour, cross border to nearly Hereford for someone that can actually fix stuff whilst you're there and stocks brake refills for old winches and drums of oil.
Probably the same dealer as you Mcmoonter, one of Roddy's pals took a saw in told it needed new carb etc that'll be £130 please.
They didn't get the work done and gave it to me to look at.....one perished fuel line replaced at £5 and good as new.
I don't think they even looked at the saw.
Grey, I spoke to Roddy, he had a similar experience.
When I took the saw in, they didn't even want to see it running to diagnose the fault or to discuss their solution. They immediately criticised the two stroke oil I was using and tried to sell me the Stihl oil and Aspen fuel.
I bought a saw from an agent on the south side of Edinburgh out near the bypass years ago. I had to get some parts for a leaf blower recently and was disappointed to find they had closed. They really knew their onions. There was always an arb truck parked outside, those guys knew where to get good service. I think the guys just retired.
Update
I ended up buying a Sthil tachometer (edt9) and it has been a huge help in tuning my saws. Removing a little in carb filter made a big difference to the ms440s running. I'd read that the earlier models used much the same carb but without the filter and they never had any issues.
I got the chance of a little used ms880 recently that was too good to turn down. It's owner had been diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease and had retired, selling all his kit . I drove down to Penrith to collect it. It's a beast. 120cc, I've used almost all of it's 36" bar on a windblown Beech and an Ash. It just laughed at it. I might get an Alaskan mill and a ripping chain for it. I've got a building project that needs some big pillars, it would be fun to mill the timber for it.
I’ve just had to rebuild my MS660, Made the mistake of lending it to a friend who then managed to pick up a piston. I’d bought it second hand, so upon stripping it down found a Chinese copy piston and pot. Looked at the prices and decided to repair it with the same, £180 genuine £25 for big bore good quality Chinese delivered.
Upon reassembly i tried tried it out and found the chain as blunt as a cricket bat, so I reckon he’d just been sat screaming it’s tits off making sawdust!!!
At least with buying online with Paypal I get 90 days warranty Stihl won’t warranty their parts past the sales counter.
Pepper, it would be well worth checking the rubber boot between the cylinder and carb for cracks, they can suck in a huge amount of air that can fry engines
Cheapest stuff i can find, old Husky here.
I've been using chainsaws and other 2 stroke machines for close on 20 years. I use bog standard unleaded petrol and oil from my mechanic. No idea what make it is. It's what he uses, and sells in 5 litre bottles. Machines run just fine on it.
Mowers and other petrol gear run on standatd unleaded.
Nothing fancy. Nothing too complicated.
I run Stihl, Kawasaki, Shindawa and Hayter without problems.
Don't over think it.
What for? what will yo cut? how often? where? can you service things? those saws are differently good and bad...you don't need the 'best saw' (no such thing) you need the right saw.
Timber - you anywhere near Blackwood? We used to use Howell waters in Blackwood, Blackwood chainsaws. An old fashioned Aladdin’s cave of a place but top notch service for regulars and trade. He’s still there I think. My mate still uses him I think. Prob his son Paul is running it now.
In our older kit, we are using Husqvarna 2 stroke oil but in all the new kit we are just using Aspen fuel pre-mixed. Though our old kit will be replaced this year.
Ok apologies for the numpty question, but as I dont at the minute own a chain saw, or anything with a two stroke engine. My question is this.....
I had some tree surgeons cut up some oak logs for me and make me a big pile of oak chippings for meat smoking. I was then told that I cant use these chippings as they will be carcinogenic due to the chain oil they will have used. If I want to usea chainsaw to make wood chippings for smoking, the chain must be lubed with mineral oil or cooking oil? Is this correct & what would it do to the saw?
Which snowflake told you that load of tosh?
Any smoked meat contains carcinogens. The synthetic oils might be best avoided, they aren't great for the soil but no idea on affect for smoking. You can use any veg oil but the downside is they will thicken and dry eventually so if left in the saw they will bugger up the oil pump. You'd need to flush the oil out at end of use. It's pretty common for arborists to use veg oil these days, but they will use so much the oil won't sit around in the saw.... And oil pumps still don't last so long.