Plus, why are all you lot moaning
Because it's their raison d'etre...
Can you imagine, if they had nowt to moan about/no-one else to blame for stuff? They'd implode!
>Try not being so lazy, with yer googling, please.
> £32,000p.a. London Tube Driver
Article date 19th Feb 2004 🙄
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Salary_for_tube_driver
Funny how Wiki answers entry for that was blank, only a couple of hours ago... 🙄
EDIT: I admit my own searches have thrown up useless out of date articles, even if they do have today's date on them...
(RudeBoy in admitting error shocker)
Anyway, so what? So they get paid £40k. Lorry petrol tanker drivers get paid something like that. Being a Tube driver is a highly stressful and demanding job, and thanks to decades of underinvestment in the Tube network, their jobs are harder than they need to be.
The other jobs are reasonably paid. How much do some on here earn? For sitting on their arses going on STW all day! I love the irony of some well paid people moaning about how much others, that they consider 'beneath' them, get paid. As though those who work in 'lowlier' jobs don't 'deserve' what they get.
And as far as I can see, one of the main points of the union is to fight against future redundancies. Which are in the pipeline, as TFL plans to cut jobs/save money, which would lead to lowering of safety for workers and passengers.
Anyone who thinks they earn too much; go and apply for, and get the job. Then tell everyone that you don't deserve that much, or shoon't strike.
So basically, because you're inconvenienced, you want all Tube workers sacked?
The Striking ones. YES.
When I started work in London I was on 12k. platform idiots were on 17k.
You know, the ones who cant speak English clearly when they give safety announcements as a train pulls in. Kinda critical for safety/or not fulfilling what they need to do as a basic requirement.
They dont tend to strike for passengers benefit do they. Vapid idiots most of them. Evening standards news articles on them used to wind me up royally. One of the reasons I started riding again actually.
BTW- that wasnt a racist comment Rudeboy but hearing someone mumble in a strong African or subcontinent voice- everyone used to turn to each other laugh and shrug shoulders. All I could mainly work out (through many many times) was 'maaaaanddd gaaarrrp plrrrease' (then mumbling incoherence).
London Underground = Stunningly great idea. In practice a Bureacratical wet dream for all employed there.
Hora- be'ave yerself.
Personally, I'd like to see people in jobs like Transport, Health, Fire, Police, Social/Public Services etc get paid higher, as they are of more value to all of society, and people who work for banks etc get paid less. Just redistribute the wealth, to those whose jobs are of greater value for all people, not those who work to line the pockets of the already wealthy. I think that some of the problems in the socially valuable professions are because people aren't 'rewarded' according to their social value. Increase the rewards, then maybe people might be better motivated. Which might increase their efficiency. No wonder people prefer to go for jobs in the greed sector, if they can; the rewards are greater. This leaves the vital jobs with insufficient numbers of people, with insufficient skills/abilities, to do them effectively. If being a nurse carried a greater economic reward, then maybe people would be encouraged to become nurses, rather than work for Bank of Greed and Greedier.
40K a year may sound a lot to people in the provinces, but you need to consider that it will be shift work, long hours, there will be no bonus and no career prospect, plus you will have to support your family in London on a fairly meagre wage for the region.
Personally I think they are overpaid by around 10-15% but they have a very good bargaining power thanks to the power of their union so I think good luck to them in a way, maybe the bus drivers could organise themselves to do something similar but I doubt it as its not a realistic form of transport for most Londoners.
Good point, DJ. I admit, I was a tad surprised, on reading that drivers do in fact get over £40k, but if you consider rents/mortgages in London and the South East, and the increased cost of living, then salaries like that, for such a job, are understandable. I don't think they are particularly 'overpaid', compared to a lot of other jobs. After tax etc you're taking home what, a bit under £600 a week? There's people on here that earn that a day, I'm sure. Say you've got 2-3 kids. Taking out rent/mortgage of £250-£300 a week, once you've paid bills etc, there's not a lot to play with. You'd be wanting your partner to work as well, certainly, if you wanted to enjoy a 'comfortable' lifestyle. Considering some of the luxuries one or two people on this thread have boasted about, I find it a bit 'rich' for them to complain about others' wages...
They drive on a fixed track FFS. Its a monotomous job. Can't afford to have 2-3 kids? Then dont have 2-3 kids. Some of the arguement/justifications for affecting others lives is stoopid.
Why should they be allowed to hold others livelihoods to ransom? Dont like your job? **** off and work somewhere else. Oh you wont make 40k so your 'stuck' in this one huh. McDonalds not paying enough for you?
****ing hate Liberal-apologists sometimes.
Why should they be allowed to hold others livelihoods to ransom
It's called a legal right to hold industrial action. Next time you're having your tea break at work or having a day off on a public holioday, just remember how you got there.
Well said, TM.
Mind, some of this lot would moan if they had the wrong kind of cup for their tea, or something.
Oh, and Hora;
Shut up.
Thanks. 😀
Everyone who strikes is holding someone else to ransom Hora. If it seems the tube drivers 40k makes you feel undervalued for what you do then maybe you should have chosen a different career path. I can think of several other careers that involve similar effort or skill level and pay as much or more then them.
I think all the striking tube staff shoud be fired without a right to appeal.
Our economy is suffering badly and those ****ers want large payrises?? Sack them all, ignore their so-****ing-called human rightrs and let us, people living in London, get on with our lives. No tube at night, no tube on Xmas Day, no tube this Thursday so all the morons can watch the footie at home on tele. Basturds!
I'd like you to take an educated guess on how long the Tube network would carry on running without engineering hours at night.
The service could feasibly be extended into the later night or earlier morning though, surely. I know our network is the oldest in the world but other countries operate much longer hours on the subways
So on a section of track with less than 4 hours engineering hours how do you get any work done if you take an hour off each end seeing that you have to vacate the site and have it cleared at least 40 minutes before the power comes back on?
work faster
Is that like the old joke about the man talking about him and his wife trying to have a baby, and his 7 year old son asking "why can't you just put more men on the job"?
Are you an RMT union steward?
[url=
no-one posted this yet?[/url]
I wish.
The fact of it is Bob Crow is a massive ****. I can't wait till Dave gets into power next year and with Boris, finishes of the job Maggie started and smashes the RMT.
Strike for a legitimate purpose (not that I can think of one), not because a "member" was sacked for opening the doors on the wrong side then lying about safety checks after and another of your members was caught stealing
Tube drivers pay and conditions http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/102222/102225/103142/london_underground/
Ah, the usual shite from backwards arsenal... 🙄
This strike is actually about securing pay rises in line with the level of inflation, and no redundancies. Tube workers claim they are already understaffed, so any job cuts would lead to them being spread even thinner, which would undoubtedly lead to compromises in the safety of workers and passengers, as I've already said (pity no-one was listening..). Get it right. As for the reinstatement of the two workers, I think that's a separate issue that is being confused with this dispute.
but the level of inflation is negative if you're talking RPI, so 0 is a good deal at the moment. 5% is decadent.
🙄
Again the worlds self proclaimed expert on everything spouting shit, the RMT have already been offered an above inflation pay rise but, turned it down unless the workers were reinstated (one of them is in crown court next month).
Beyond you, I don't think there's much support for Bob Crow (the Scargill of the 00's).
http://news.google.co.uk/news/more?um=1&ned=uk&cf=all&ncl=dM_D7awy1liVSiM41OW_880Y0DZWM
Arsenal; calm yerself down mate, and stop getting in such a tiz.
As for vulnerable people: carers who need to use transport to get to them can claim additional expenses if they require taxis. Many people who need medical treatment can also claim if necessary. There will also be provision for ambulances to take people to hospital, for appointments, if needed.
So much outrage, which is actually being whipped up by the media, surprise surprise. Apparently, there may be some limited Tube services still operating tomorrow and up til 7pm on Thursday. It's not the end of the World!
So, watch those knees jerking; you might kick yerselves in the face!
Oh, and regardless of what any of us think; the majority of RMT members who voted, voted in favour of strike action. Democracy, no? Arsenal; weren't you banging on about just that, on the BNP thread? 🙄
I'm not in a tiz at all.
The strike is not legitimate, the right to strike is one that should be used as a very last resort not, as a yearly throwing your toys out of the pram exercise. Unions have done good work in the past but, when ****s like Bob Crow get into a position of power the publics sympathies (esp in the current economic climate) tends to wesr thin
And if you think the RMT is a democracy you're even more deluded than I previously thought
http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/News.asp?NodeID=92597
Nightie night.
X
I think I'd be more sympathetic to their cause if they didn't have a strike every single year.
A quick search over the BBC news website, and a cursory glance makes it at least look like they've had one every year since at least 2000. *
It doesn't actually inconvenience me anyway, bikes are great 🙂
* I've not checked this in great detail, but this is certainly the third strike in as many years, and there's definitely been more before that.
[b]Rudeboy [/b][i]"Come on then' what, mate?"[/i]
[b]Rudeboy[/b] [i]"We could all find statistics to support whatever argument we have..."[/i]
Let's have your stats. You seem quite convinced that you are right and everyone else is wrong so where are your supporting data?
[b]Rudeboy:[/b] [i]"I think that some of the problems in the socially valuable professions are because people aren't 'rewarded' according to their social value. Increase the rewards, then maybe people might be better motivated. Which might increase their efficiency. No wonder people prefer to go for jobs in the greed sector, if they can; the rewards are greater."[/i]
Unfortunately your argument has several rather large holes in it Rudeboy. The "Greed Sector" as you call it, is responsible for earning the country enough money to pay for the public services we all rely on. Without it, there won't be any "socially valuable professions".
You write that "increase the rewards, then people might be better motivated" without taking into account that the median public sector salary is already significantly higher than the median private sector salary - and that's without the extra holiday, good pensions, extra sickies and reduced working hours being taken into account.
If what you write is correct, we could reasonably expect the "socially valuable professions" to be more productive. This is far from the case - productivity in the public sector has fallen for much of the last 10 years and remains far removed from the "greed sector", as evidenced most recently by yesterday's Audit Office report that points to the public getting worse value from the £1,000B or so of extra funding that's been thrown at the public sector in the last 10 years.
When I started work in London I was on 12k. platform idiots were on 17k.
You mean you don't even qualify as a platform idiot? ****... You really must be very stoopipd hora
Strikes also coincide with the England game/Wembley. Nice one. Ransom-holding is it?
Then there are the two tube drivers sacked- one for lying over a safety issue and the other for theft. RMT wants them reinstated before on condition of the strike.
I hope they break the back of this Union- **** off back to the 70's/80's. Tossers.
You mean you don't even qualify as a platform idiot? ****... You really must be very stoopipd hora
LOL! Post of the month! 😆
Brilliant, Juan.
The "Greed Sector" as you call it, is responsible for earning the country enough money to pay for the public services we all rely on
Ah, would that be the same sector that earns so much money for the benefit of everyone, that it has to have large chunks of it bailed out by the taxpayer? Or the same sector where there have been, and will continue to be, massive redundancies? Great.
Let's get back to the real world.
Nurses do one of the most valuable jobs in our society, yet are rewarded relatively very badly. They do longer hours than most, and often have to work well beyond the end of their shifts, as there aren't enough nurses. Why not? Because it's an extremely hard job, for shite money.
Would you not agree, that such jobs should be rewarded better?
I'm not
Juan, yep Woolworths head office in supply chain. They didnt pay grads very well back then.
The "Greed-sector" is the powerhouse for this country. Sadly the public sector (by design) can not be a powerhouse or drive a countries economy. I cant beleive that there is actually a minister for the NorthWest Children etc now. WTF?! What next, a Minister for Manchester?
They get 40k? Why the hell did i bother going to uni?
They get 40k? Why the hell did i bother going to uni?
Would you sit on your tod, holding a lever day in day out?
They get 40k? Why the hell did i bother going to uni?
Unfortunately its basically a union controlled closed shop so you'd have to work your way up from the low-paid platform staff type jobs to earn the 'right' to train as a driver. Of course being a card-carrying Bob Crow supporter doesn't hurt upwards progression.
Would you sit on your tod, holding a lever day in day out?
Well apparently you said it's so easy that everyone (save you) can do it.
They get 40k? Why the hell did i bother going to uni?
Just an idea, but was it so's you could get an education, mix with other like-minded people, share ideas, get drunk, meet members of the opposite/same sex for naughtiness?
Ah Juan, would you be French and a stereotypical union/strikelover? 😉 😆
I read somewhere, and maybe our resident Frenchman can confim/deny this that when the French underground staff went on strike they all turned up for work, opened the ticket gates and let everyone have free travel for the duration of the strike, hurting the business but not the commuters.
Make more sense than our lots efforts, even if it's made up!
Rudeboy "Nurses do one of the most valuable jobs in our society, yet are rewarded relatively very badly. They do longer hours than most, and often have to work well beyond the end of their shifts, as there aren't enough nurses. Why not? Because it's an extremely hard job, for shite money."
I'm not sure where you are getting your "facts" from Rudeboy, but I suspect that you're simply throwing about Rhetoric to obfuscate your lack of knowledge.
You won't find anyone disagreeing that Nurses do a valuable and important job. That's precisely why pay for Nurses has increased over 50% in the last 10 years. Average Nurse salaries rose to £27K in 2006 exclusive of a 20% London allowance for Nurses working in the capital. Factor in the pension etc and Nurses now earn nearly 50% more than the median private sector worker - so by no means underpaid.
Like most NHS workers, it's also wrong to assert that Nurses do longer hours than most workers. The ONS reports average hours of 36 hours a week compared to 37.5 in the private sector.
To summarise, your claim that Nurses work for longer hours and for shite money is nonsense.
[b]TUBE LINE UPDATES
Northern Line - good service
District Line - Trains from Wimbledon to High Street Kensington
Jubilee Line - Trains from Stanmore to Neasden; Waterloo to Stratford
Metropolitan Line - Trains from Wembley Park to Baker Street
Piccadilly Line - Trains from Arnos Grove to Cockfosters
Victoria Line - Trains from Seven sisters to Victoria
Bakerloo Line - Trains from Queen's Park to Paddington
Central Line - Liverpool Street to Epping and Hainault; White City to Ruislip and Ealing Broadway
Circle Line - suspended
Hammersmith and City Line - Trains from Baker Street to Hammersmith
Waterloo and City - suspended
[/b]
Farmer Giles: spout figures all you want. The reality is that Nurses do a darn sight more than most people, and get paid relatively poorly.
Why don't they deserve £40 or 50k?
'Nurses earn 50% more than the median private sector worker'
And they're doing a 500% more valuable job...
Oh, and your figures seem to conflict with the [url= http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=4 ]NHS'[/url]...
And they're doing a 500% more valuable job...
Ah another GCSE-standard debating arguement.
For the sake of argument Rudeboy, what do you consider to be the optimal percentage of GDP that the state should account for?
I only ask because I foresee a budget problem developing when everyone being paid by the state is being paid more than anyone in the "greed sector". 🙂
I only ask because I foresee a budget problem developing when everyone being paid by the state is being paid more than anyone in the "greed sector"
Did I say 'everyone'? Did I?
No, I din't.
There is a place for the greed sector. I'm not denying that. But there should be more recognition and reward for those who do socially valuable jobs such as nursing, woon't you agree?
So RB, how much??
Who decides which line of work is 'socially valuable'?
I don't know; what are you asking me for? Ask one of the economists like BigDummy or Stoner or whoever. They can tell you.
BD; I'm sure it's not that simple, and i'm being idealistic. But I'm sure a system could be developed, whereby people can still have nice cars and houses and bottles of wine, just that more people copuld have that.
Would mean that some might have to sell their luxury apartments in Monaco, a couple of Ferraris, the private jets, etc...
A few more things for you to munch over [b]Rudeboy[/b]. From the sound of it you'd be a lot happier somewhere else, maybe Russia.,,?
Anyway, here's something else for you to fume over:
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/hamish-mcrae/hamish-mcrae-the-growing-publicprivate-divide-1701051.html ]The growing greed sector / public sector divide[/url]
But I'm sure a system could be developed, whereby people can still have nice cars and houses and bottles of wine, just that more people copuld have that.
Sounds a lot like some form of free market capitalism to me, with limited state intervention.
Can't be bothered reading that, so you've wasted your time.
Russia? No, worse than here by a long, long way.
I think one of the main reasons why there's so much resentment here is that there's people like Hora, angry that 'lowly' Tube drivers get paid more than them, and others who see Tube workers as being 'beneath' them, in the social scale. Most of it seems to be about jealousy, and how people want to be seen. Seems to me, to be mainly about personal status. Reveals a fair bit about peoples' insecurities.
Would there be so much anger, if this were a more financially stable period? Would there indeed even be industrial action at all?
Get used to it folks, as you're going to see a lot more of this, as things become ever more uncertain.
If it all gets too bad, why not consider careers on the Underground, or in Nursing?
Great pay, conditions and hours, apparently...
Bored now.
Ah another GCSE-standard debating arguement.
I concurr... If for example the private sector job is yours hora, from that I can guess from this thread there is strictly no way RD can say that.
Value of your work being 0 0 times a trillion is still equal 0.
[i]I don't know; what are you asking me for?[/i]
It is this sort of intellectual laziness that undermines your pretensions to be the world's leading authority on everything. You were being asked because it appeared to be important to understanding your point. 😉
Sobriety I have not heard of that.
Well in the not too distant future I'm sure they and many others within the public sector will have a genuine reason to gripe and perhaps strike, when (as shown historically) the painful cuts that invariably follow a period of Labour government mismanagement and over-spend have to be made in order to try and reduce excessive national debt.
Failed to end 'boom and bust', failed to reform public services to bring them inline with private sector efficiencies, failed to make hay whilst the weather was fine, [b]and[/b] sold off the rainy day money (and boy is it pouring now) when the gold market was at a low, quite a record.
Oh yes. I remember that. Didnt he sell it at half its value (3bn under?)
The selling of gold is a global problem and it started in America, hora, as any fule kno
£27 000 average for nurese - no way jose. Nurses pay has crept up in recent times and terms and conditions are good but the only way the average approaches £27 000 is including "nurse managers" I would think the average including those nurses who work in the private sector ( who get paid less) would be 3 or 4 grand below that.
My goodness - I have just sussed it out - CFH =
[img] 
[/img]
😆
Juan, dammit! I thought it was far too good an idea to be true 😥
[i]Most of it seems to be about jealousy, and how people want to be seen. Seems to me, to be mainly about personal status. Reveals a fair bit about peoples' insecurities. [/i]
You're sounding like Anthony Steen now 🙂
I don't know who Antony Steen is.
Maybe he sounds like RudeBoy?
I've just remembered I used to know a tube driver. He seemed alright, but I am still amazed that he earned that much for sitting on his arse all day, whilst I was working 12 hour days in all weathers for something like 16k (including overtime).
As for pay and conditions, I'd have thought that the average private soldier has far worse pay and conditions than the bulk of the LU staff, what with getting shot at, motared and being away from home for six months at a time. And yet they can't strike. Maybe they should quit being a soldier and become tube drivers though...
Imagine, private sector company- striking because you want more pay even though the boss says cuts need to be made as orders are down/or costs are up..then adding in 'oh and Tim&Jane that you sacked for gross misconduct (theft/lying over a safety issue)- reinstate them now or else.
You'd have to go back to the days of British Leyland wouldnt you to see a parallel 😕
You'd have to go back to the days of British Leyland wouldnt you to see a parallel
Why, are the employees of this theoretical private sector company also going out on strike over the type of biscuits sold in the canteen on top of all the other stuff?
[b]TandemJeremy:[/b] [i]"£27 000 average for nurese - no way jose."
[/i]
Erm, well the RCN reports that the MINIMUM starting pay for a registered nurse in 2007 was £19,683 - and in London that's topped up with a 20% weighting. Add on the index linked pension (worth around 20-24% of salary depending on which estimate you use) and you'll find that newly qualified nurses almost earn the same as median public and private sector salaries. Add in a few years of experience / pay rises, and it's hard not to conclude that Nurses now start on more than most other graduate career paths, and quickly see salary increases that take them past median salaries for the whole workforce.
http://www.rcn.org.uk/support/pay_and_conditions/nursing_pay_rates_200708
Well if you compute it that way and include the nurse manager and exclude the non NHS nurses then maybe.
hora as far as I am aware the same number of people are taking the tube this week as the same week last year (given a small epsilon). SO you can't really say that they have less jobs can you?
can we not get back to the point, instead of relying on infighting and vitriol towards RiteBoy to prop up this thread?
public sector workers are paid well enough and will have lots more to complain about in the not-too-distant future when their super pension benefits get changed for the worse
the point that I'm sure we all agree on is that this is all Bob Crow's fault and that he is a militant communist idiot whose actions solve nothing and only inflate his own workshy uber-ego
Rudeboy said - Would there be so much anger, if this were a more financially stable period? Would there indeed even be industrial action at all?
Of course there would! Even more so! Have you forgotten the other public sector stikes? The teachers went on national strike over pay 14 months ago for example. The RMT had several Tube strikes in 2006 and 2007. There were plenty of strikes when the economy was doing well! In fact this is when stikes tend to occur - when unions think everyone else but them are getting a better deal. The politics of envy/jealousy!
I clearly detect jealousy from you Rudeboy, you assume everyone who is working in the so called "greed" sector is loaded. That is so far from the truth! The opposite is often true in fact. Public sector workers have a great deal more job security, higher average wages and fabulous pension provision, all from a sector that doen't make a bean in profit and has no natural predators.
Nobody is looking down on tube drivers! This is not some issue about social status, it's purely about being rewarded an appropriate ammount of money for the job that you do. Because of the situation with unions and the usual "tail wagging the dog" scenario, tube drivers are overpaid. The unions hold TFL to ransom to get their way and they win!
Look at the Fleet Street printwortworkers dispute in the 80's. News International opened the Wapping site and computerised typesetting. The entire lot of the Fleet street workers were out on their ear. They deserved this because they had held the newspaper bosses to ransom for years, earning hugely inflated salaries. The resulting violent protests went on there night after night and even disgruntled sacked miners from up north rocked up for the punch up.
Unions did the same to many large corporations e.g. Fords in Dagenham, wrecked the profitablity of the company. Manufacturers went elsewhere in the world as a result. Mostly working people lost out. Nice move you idealistic union numpties!
Rudeboy openly admits to being idealistic. Well ideology is a sign of madness when you ignore practical reality, the hard facts of life - someone has to earn all this money at some point. We should all aspire to certain ideals, but not when it is going against the grain, going against what is economically viable.
Rule number one: We have to make good products to sell, that people will buy, preferrably to sell abroad. Not a chance! The public sector should be there to support this and should be a sized according to what the so called "greed sector" needs and can afford to support. Labour politicians can't grasp this fact and this is why they keep expanding a public sector while the economy shrinks. The road to hell!
Unions did the same to many large corporations e.g. Fords in Dagenham, wrecked the profitablity of the company. Manufacturers went elsewhere in the world as a result.
They were moving anyway. To the East, where cheap labour, no unions and few workers' rights mean they can exloit the **** out of people, in the name of Profit.
if this were a more financially stable period? Would there indeed even be industrial action at all?
There was strike action before yes. I remember it. TFL want to make cuts to he backroom office staff that proliferated after the disastrous tubelines PFP thingy?