[Closed] Traveling by train ettiquette rant.

We can only carry a maximum of two bikes per train but conductors have responsibility for the safety of their train and have the right to refuse entry if the train is busy.

I wouldn't kick a pram out of the bike space, most other people are fair game tho, what's really annoying is when someone leaves their luggage there then pisses off down the train somewhere.

Morons who don't let passengers off before getting on are piss boiling too.

you really think that a mother with kids being on a train and putting the baby buggy in the cycle space where it is not allowed means I should not be allowed to make my journey?

You are just being silly now TJ - the pram is specifically ALLOWED as a free item. The 'max 1m' bit is for other items not specifically allowed as a free item.

Hang on - TJ complaining about luggage in the way of parking his bike on the train? Haven't we already done this?

She would not have to get off the train - merely organise her stuff a bit better. very little inconvenience for her, a lot for me

She puts the kid on her knee and folds the buggy away or goes to the vestibule with it. As the rules state- Or I have to wait for the next train and you think I should wait?

Neal - I have been refused by the guard to get on a train that already had its limit for cycles and was not allowed into he doorway, I have also a couple of times seen the guards tell people to move their stuff out of the bicyle bit

Love the rental car advert at the top!

If it's that important why not email the flipping train company and ask them for a definitive answer?

Golly, have we got to the point of kicking off Prams from trains..

Seriously?

Jeeze.

Catch the early sardine can to That Waterloo and try kicking off a Pram. You'd be met with untold abuse, and quite right too.

"sits pondering the motivation of human race"

No bikebouy - the pram can be put elsewhere on the train - that is the point. the bike cannot

What if all available space had already been taken so the woman with the pram *had* to stand in the bike space?

Neal - I have been refused by the guard to get on a train that already had its limit for cycles and was not allowed into he doorway,

Different situation and totally irrelevant to the discussion.

I have also a couple of times seen the guards tell people to move their stuff out of the bicyle bit

So nobody is "prevented from completing their journey" as you previously claimed then ?

You put your bike in the doorway area.
If the guard asks you to move it, you explain that there is a pram in the bike area and he sorts it out.

Happy days.

Each customer can carry,............ [b]or[/b] any article which does not exceed 1 metre in any dimension and which can be carried by one person.

The reason for the 1 m stipulation is that this is to make sure the item can go in the luggage spaces

I can think of somewhere most of the commuters would like to shove your bike TJ

Form an orderly queue.....

Wow! Thought I could be a self-centered SOB sometimes but the attitude of TJ (combined with hilarious hypocrisy) has me beaten hands down.

Mother with kid has to do all of that just to prevent your inconvenience, you a fit, fully grown Alpha Male.

😆

Can someone lend TJ a small child so he can try folding a buggie while having a child on his knee. I presume this is what you mean by "organise her stuff a bit better?"

Rules are rules surely?

I simply cannot believe that you think it is right that a mother can leave a baby buggy in the cycle space when there are other spaces available for it and that her right to break the rules in this way means its OK for me to be unable to complete my journey despite the fact I am within the rules and she is not?

This is gobsmacking - yo think a parent can just do what they want no matter the inconvenience to anyone else - a sort of parent trumps all card?

Konabunny - read it again its quite clear about wheelchairs - and they have priority over bikes in the space on some trains. Bikes can then be put off a train

Again I have been refused to be allowed on a train because of a wheelchair user in the space - quite right as well.

Why didn't you just put your bike in one of the "other spaces"?

http://www.nvocomponents.com/

Doesn't look like it's quick release though..?

One hex bolt to loosen and it will slide right off the top, straight over the top cap which is flush. When the stem goes back on there is no faffing around to line it up due to the channel groove arrangement.

Not allowed as its over 1 m long 🙄 a bike can only go in the bike space.

for me to be unable to complete my journey

TJ. You keep saying that, like it's true.

But as you clearly showed above, it's not true at all.

The guard would ask the person to move the offending items from the cycle space so you could park your bike there.

(then you could stand tall, knowing you were sticking to the rules, while everyone on the carriage would think you were a total arsehole)

Stop saying it now please. Your making yourself look stupid.

the pram can be put elsewhere on the train

not on a lot of trains, the bike 'bay' is the only luggage storing spot, other than some small/narrow racks in the carriage.

If more of the passengers did this, life would be so much easier:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

One hex bolt to loosen

Mmm.. but I don't want to take it off, I want to swivel it around. Bars dangling on cables are awkward.

Neal
nice edit

Yes in practie that is what would happen but people on here are saying I should not expect her to move and should not ask her to move in which case I cannot get on the train as the bike space is the only place a bike is allowed

TurnerGuy - Member

the pram can be put elsewhere on the train

not on a lot of trains, the bike 'bay' is the only luggage storing spot, other than some small/narrow racks in the carriage.

It is not a luggage storing point -t here is sign telling you not to put luggage there usually

Mmm.. but I don't want to take it off, I want to swivel it around. Bars dangling on cables are awkward.

You could use one of these and cut the extension down to just be the stack height of your stem, would put the bars a bit higher which you could then offset a bit with a stem with a negative rise.

[img] [/img]

I did this on one a while ago to use on my Dahon, then found the NVO stems, bought one, but never used it as I downsized to a Birdy. I might have chucked it but if I find it you are welcome to it.

there's a few on this page:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/stems-accessories-dept350_pg1/?src=froogle

I think the NVO's are better though - proper, decent looking stems and quite light.

t here is sign telling you not to put luggage there usually

yes, but where else do you put it?

To be honest, if I was on the same train as TJ with my kids and pushchair I would do all I could to upset his poor little head.

Seriously TJ - you need to take a good hard look at yourself sometimes.

Neal

nice edit

Erm..... Thanks ?

Turner guy - in the luggage space or in the vestiblue / doorway - where the bike cannot be lefl

MF - really? I think you do with your selfish parents come first attitude.

Why do you think it acceptable for a baby buggy to be left in the cycle in breach of the rules even if it means I cannot get on the train with my bike? There are other places to put the baby buggies there is no other place to put the bike. Fortunately most parents are not selfish enough to do this.

So its ok to leave the buggy in the doorway where it will fall over and trip people up but not in your special bike space evn though its not classed as luggage and guards will ask you to put them there?

No - the buggy should go in a luggage space where its is meant to go - and the guards on scotrail tell people top take them out of the bike space.

I cannot believe you all saying that the big " bike space sign" should be ignored

So I cannot actually make journies on trains with my bike as any parent should be allowed to sue the bike space and thus prevent me from getting on the train- is that it?

Have you ever used a buggy?

MF - really? I think you do with your selfish parents come first attitude.

But, for what it is worth, given similar circumstances I would put my pushchair there (we don't have a pram) but (assuming there was space elsewhere) would move if someone with a bike asked me to. But if you asked and you came across in person like you do on here, I would tell you to jog on and go cry to a conductor.

And TJ, you do realise that some prams will not fit in a car boot, never mind in a luggage space on atrain don't you? I am sure you do.

And I am sure you also know that some prams do not fold at all don't you?

No - but I rely on using trains with my bike and do not see why a parent should be allowed to stop me when I am within the rules and they are not

TJ I think you miss the point, live by the rules die by the rules, all the rules well only the ones I like.....

How does a buggy in the space stop you from physicaly getting on the train and then asking the guard/conductor to get the buggy moved? or does a buggy have some sort of anti tj shield?

I am within the rules and they are not

So MF you actually would be reasonable and allow the cyclist their space - thats all I ask.

All I want is to get on the train with my bike as I am allowed. I would, as I always do, politely ask them and offer to help them move the stuff as said on this thread.

TandemJeremy - Member
No - but I rely on using trains with my bike and do not see why a parent should be allowed to stop me when I am within the rules and they are not

owenfackrell - Member

How does a buggy in the space stop you from physicaly getting on the train and then asking the guard/conductor to get the buggy moved? or does a buggy have some sort of anti tj shield?

It doesn't - but people are saying I should not ask the parent to move -

So Owen you think if a parent with a baby buggy gets on a train and puts their buggy in the bike space thats just my tough luck- I should wait for the next train and hope no parent is on this. Despite the fact they are not allowed to put the buggy in that space.

but people are saying I should not ask the parent to move

And TJ, you do realise that some prams will not fit in a car boot, never mind in a luggage space on atrain don't you? I am sure you do.

And I am sure you also know that some prams do not fold at all don't you?

Yes - and they are not allowed on trains unless booked because of this

mastiles_fanylion - Member

but people are saying I should not ask the parent to move

I think you should stop and think to yourself whether asking someone travelling with a small child should move so you can put your bike in its place.

Because
1) If they do not move I cannot get on the train
2) the space in question is dedicated and reserved for bikes
3) they are not allowed to leave the baby buggy there

You know what, I'd be more cheesed off if a Mother and her pushchair had to block the aisle or doorway, and invariably be unable to sit comfortably, than if she was in the bike space, which on Southern Trains has two seats in that area.

I'd gladly give my space up for her, and anyone else less able too..

"still sitting pondering the human races development"

Ok, so I've never been refused entry because the trains full, and don't forget I use a rammed commuter train, and also I've never seen anyone refused either.

Next, next you'll be saying that wheelchairs aren't allowed on if the space for a bike is taken up.

The parent needs to speak with the conductor, quite simple really! Too many parents on here changing rules to suit their own (selfish) needs shocker. 🙄

What would happen, for example, if you had actually made a reservation (and paid) for your bike?

I agree with TJ. 🙂

Yes - and they are not allowed on trains unless booked because of this

Your interpretation of the rules on the ScotRail site say that, everyone else on here seems to disagree with you.

The rules are clear - and even if allowed on as you say they are still not allowed in the cycle space.

So MF youy think it is reasoanble that I should be blocked from travelling on a train by a parent with a baby buggy respite the rules being on my side? How selfish of you. Why not move the baby buggy as you are supposed to?

Awaiting hidden camera/and finally section of the news with an increasingly irate man trying to get a lady with a baby ushered away from his "PRECIOUS" bike space where his "PRECIOUS" bike must live only for the rest of the carriage to (fill in own ending)

mine includes this
[img] [/img]

Next, next you'll be saying that wheelchairs aren't allowed on if the space for a bike is taken up.

[quote=TJ today] I would, as I always do, politely ask them and offer to help them move the stuff as said on this thread.

[quote=TJ a while ago][b]I probably sighed and said[/b] "Could you move the bags please"

.
.
Not sure I would describe that as "polite"

Or an offer of help.

Sounds more like a sanctimonious twot, who likes nothing more than huffing and puffing about stuff.

Konabunny - read it again its quite clear about wheelchairs

owenfackrell - Member
Have you ever used a buggy?

POSTED 25 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I appear to have accidentally logged into Mumsnet...

in the luggage space or in the vestiblue / doorway

I suppose that is fair enough IF there is a luggage space, but in a lot of trains down here there is not. Especially these types

[img] [/img]

where there are just narrow doorways into the train and the bike racks are the only luggage areas apart from the racks above the seats.

you do realise that some prams will not fit in a car boot, never mind in a luggage space on a train don't you?

probably shouldn't bring such a pram on a train in rush hour then...

No - wheelchairs clearly have priority

I used to think that until I saw some Mr Creosote type in one the other week...

The train above is a Desiro model, made by siemens.

Double doors are used on commuter stock to ease ingress and egress at stations and speed up station dwell time, single doors allow more seats per coach and are used on longer distance train services.

Stil doessnt resolve the lack of space for us comuting cyclists though.

This thread = TJ at his best*

* for 'best' read 'argumentative insufferable bore'

To be fair he is just standing up for what he believes in - it's only fair that the mother of a young baby gives up the space, tries to find a suitable place to stow her pram and carry her young baby back to a seat (assuming one is available). Hell, she could just stand and hold it as TJ can gaze on triumphantly knowing he was 'in the right' whilst receiving rapturous applause from the rest of the travellers.

I'm with TJ here.

Shouldn't this thread be in the Special Needs forum?

What's the difference between leaving a pram in a bike space and oooo, I don't know....red light jumping?

Plenty, if you are a total hypocrite.

One is a law, broken by some for their own convenience, while the other is a small sign, ignored by some for their own convenience?

One would widely receive understanding from those around them and the other would lead to further hatred of the type of person/group to which they belong doing it?

Is there a union or forum for us bike trainers.

Also what tyres for bikes on trains.

Of course it's nothing to do with the assumption that many of you on here have children is it?

🙄

I don't.. That doesn't stop me thinking someone elders comfort is worth moving my ass for.

*calls TJ self moderation repair engineer*
"yes its gone AGAIN. What are my consumer rights, as its never worked properly since i got it. Not fit for purpose! "
"sorry mate, I've got a part worn Ernie lynch if you want to di a straight swap?"
"done!"
*ends call*

I don't have kids either.

Should I change my opinion, or is it ok not to fit in with the stereotype ?

no kids here just object to the hypocritical pin n mix rule game going on here

Also what tyres for bikes on trains.

not more than 2.2, preferably 2.1, as otherwise they won't fit into the stands and the bike won't be held very stably.

I have children but I would have done it if I didn't, just like I would offer my seat for anyone else clearly more deserving of it, as I always hold doors open for people, how I always offer help to people getting on and off buses etc if they have pushchairs or disabled.

I would like to think other adults would act in the same way. Evidently some still put themselves first.

MF - so you thinking in that situation I should not get on train? Its not a case of putting myself first - just wanting the use of the bike space for a bike so I can complete my journey. Is that really too much to ask?

Are you really saying parents should take priority over bikes int he bike space and thus no one with bikes can use trains - as there are so many parents the bike space would never be free.

o what do you think I should do instead? You are not allowed to travel wiuth the bike anywhere else on the train as it blocks the doorways or corridor - If I do get on and stand with it in the doorways I will either be put off by the guard of the person with the buggy will be made to move it

As for the non folding pram - I actually saw someone get told by the gurard on a train she should have booked it on and that she was charged a ticket for it.

Do you ever travel by train with a bike?

do you always treat cyclists a second class citizens?

You think that just cos you are a parent that trumps all. Well open your eyes and stop being so selfish.

YOur selfishness shines thru with making having children of equal status to being elderly or disabled. So you think a parent with a baby buggy is more deserving of the bike space than a person with a bike? despite the fact there are plenty of other places for the buggy and non for the bike.

I do find it breathtaking the anti bike rhetoric on here. Not suprising any more but somewhat saddening.

I think you should *think* yourself that someone else might be more deserving of the space yes. 100%

Evidently you don't and I am happy not to think like you.

Not anti-biking rhetoric, anti-selfishness.

So you don't think its selfish for a parent to leave the baby buggy in the bike space even tho that means I cannot use the train - but for me to ask her to move it so I can get on the train is selfish. There are plenty of other places for the buggy, none for the bike

You are incredibly selfish and arrogant with your " I am a parent and that trumps all" attitude

I am so glad most people are not as smallminded, arrogant and selfish as you are.

So come on MF - you say I should not ask her to move the baby buggy - what should I do then?

In your fictional scenario where you are [b]"unable to complete your journey" [/b]

(this phrase seems to be your latest "repeat until seen to be true" project )

Would it be easier for the fictional cyclist to wait for the next train (or just get off and try another carriage)

Or would it be easier for the fictional parent with the child and buggy ?

Even people who you find annoying are entitled to put their bikes in the space designated for bikes. Their bikes take precedence over other types of luggage or conveyance which have no right to be there.

That's it.