[Closed] 'Traitorous' Argentine intellectuals on the Falklands

oops.. That'll ruffle a few plumas

Change of government, same old authoritarian b*llsh*t as the generals.

Makes sean penn seem like an even bigger idiot. 😀

I just can't wait until our very own Argentine* intellectual** spots this thread.

* Citation needed.
** 😆

[i]we cannot impose citizenship or sovereignty on a population that does not want it[/i]

I believe if you have a look back in history, there's been the odd isolated case of this, when attempted, not going too well

I am all in favour of self determination, but do we not as the UK spend rather a lot of loot in keeping the Falkands supplied and defended? I think the inhabitants should negotiate with Argentina and open up cheaper supply routes.

I am all in favour of self determination,

but do we not as the UK spend rather a lot of loot in keeping the Falkands supplied and defended?

we also spend lots more money on other things such as international aid, should we stop that? Should we be providing aid to a country with a bigger space program than ours for example?

I think the inhabitants should negotiate with Argentina and open up cheaper supply routes.

would you negotiate away your right to self determination in return for cheaper eggs?

By the noises coming out of Argentina at the moment, it doesn't sound like negotiation is something they've much interest in. Macho posturing seems to be very much where its at.

What biccies for a Falklands discussion?

Slightly OT but I wonder if there's a curry house on the Falklands...

Without a UK aircraft carrier capability they could walk in tomorrow and we'd be able to do squat anyway.

Jaffa cakes I think......

And you are right Big_N_Daft, why supply aid to a country that spends a fortune on Space, or indeed Nukes, and massive amounts of weapons, while people in its streets have no water, no houses, no food.

Plenty people do not have any sort of self determination at all, its them my heart bleeds for.

derek_starship - Member
Slightly OT but I wonder if there's a curry house on the Falklands...

There isn't, well, there wasn't last time I was down there..although The Globe did do a curry night on a Thursday.

There is a Burger waggon tho'..

The slop jockies back up at MPA do try and make a ruby, but its' never that good..

Unless the RIC are Gurkhas.

 

you dont see a moral dimension to this? Is it reasonable for a foreign power to impose trade sanctions on another country just to further its own political objectives?

War or trade is just the continuation of policy (politics) by other means. Nod to Karl von Clausewitz whom I have badly misquoted 😉

Gunz - Member

Without a UK aircraft carrier capability they could walk in tomorrow and we'd be able to do squat anyway.

What, with their non-existent amphibious capability and the same Skyhawks they had last time?

You better inform the Governor so he can prepare to surrender the islands.

Isn't there now an airbase on the Falklands with a load of Typhoons stationed there? That sort of negates the aircraft carrier argument

Without a UK aircraft carrier capability they could walk in tomorrow and we'd be able to do squat anyway.

We've done this one several times - there are now a load of combat aircraft stationed there with far greater capability than anything we've ever flown off carriers. 🙄

I believe the official conspiracy theory is that a civilian jumbo painted in the colours of the Chilean national airline will fake an emergency landing (in spite of the fact that there are no unscheduled flights that go anywhere near the islands and it would be easy to check with the Chileans whether it was one of theirs). Then quite inexplicably, said jumbo will be permitted to land. The moment it lands Argentine 'special forces' (no combat experience ever) will leap out and seize the base. Obviously, the RIC will all be hillwalking or counting penguins at the time and the RAF Regiment wouldn't be the least bit curious about what was going on. Then everyone files out onto the runway, lines up and surrenders.

Simple.

aracer - Member
What biccies for a Falklands discussion?

Garibaldi of course 🙂

Pawsy_Bear - Member

you dont see a moral dimension to this? Is it reasonable for a foreign power to impose trade sanctions on another country just to further its own political objectives?

Is it? we do it often enough.

The whole Malvinas issue is a typical example of Latin American populism in action. Focus on something the people resent bitterly and blow it up to win votes.

IF Britain is ever forced to abandon the islands, perhaps we should pursue the same scorched earth policy that Portugal did when they left their African colonies; they dredged up and destroyed the shellfish, ripped out the telephone system and burned all the country's archives. Perhaps a little Anthrax testing on the islands?

Hilldodger - voted for the best current and future contribution to this thread!

Gunz - Member
Without a UK aircraft carrier capability they could walk in tomorrow and we'd be able to do squat anyway.

Posted 50 minutes ago #

As well as the combat aircraft mentioned, has anybody seen any submarines lately?

has anybody seen any submarines lately?

No - that's the whole point!

Its behiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind yooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!

hilldodger (Garibaldi of course)genius 😉

Don't discount the Argentine subs...

[img] [/img]

Don't discount the Argentine subs...

Are those the ones the internet stops you seeing?

yaaaaaaawn is this still rumbling on

stop dignify emtpy argentinian electioneering rhetotic with intellectual stw debate

once its clear theres no oil down there everyone will drop their claims to them anyway

Paste this into a browser:

stop dignify emtpy argentinian electioneering rhetotic with intellectual stw debate

Good point. If we stop arguing about it, they'll probably stop their sabre rattling.

kimbers - Member
yaaaaaaawn is this still rumbling on

stop dignify emtpy argentinian electioneering rhetotic with intellectual stw debate

once its clear theres no oil down there everyone will drop their claims to them anyway

Posted 17 minutes ago # Report-Post

OOOOOO....Check her!

stop dignify emtpy argentinian electioneering rhetotic with intellectual stw debate

'intellectual' STW debate is the very highest accolade, and should only be reserved for the most deserving of rhetoric. 🙂

you dont see a moral dimension to this? Is it reasonable for a foreign power to impose trade sanctions on another country just to further its own political objectives?

lol, like anyone would ever do that? Mental.

so there is divided opinion on this issue in Argentina like there is divided opinion here.
who would have thought this amazing revelation could be true till now.
Sterling work there

What next?Reseach proves not everyone in america believes in God?
Some people like the theatre some dont.

The rest is the usual stw "one sided polemic banter" that we have done on at least a couple of other threads.
I am not holding out for any new information or anyone changing their mind

*waves to junkyard*

so there is divided opinion on this issue in Argentina like there is divided opinion here.

Fortunately we still have the Tower of London in which to bang up our traitors. Remind me which UK intellectuals have written a paper supporting the Argentinian position who should be in there?

*waves to junkyard*

Your ears must have been burning

I am not holding out for ... anyone changing their mind

appreciates wave

Fortunately we still have the Tower of London in which to bang up our traitors. Remind me which UK intellectuals have written a paper supporting the Argentinian position who should be in there?

Isn't the tower already filled with the drugs experts whos expert advice wasn't on message enough for the government.

Remind me which UK intellectuals have written a paper supporting the Argentinian position who should be in there?

The point, which is beyond debate, is that not everyone in either country agrees.
As they call journalists intelectuals..I am sure we can just accept that we could easily find a journalist to support either view without bothering to waste our time googling.

As they call journalists intelectuals

Well that of course depends on your source - more reliable ones than the Guardian mention it's a group of "Argentina's leading intellectuals, historians, journalists, constitutional experts and politicians" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9098633/Cristina-Kirchner-told-to-leave-Falkland-Islanders-alone-by-Argentinas-intellectuals.html . Fancy finding any of the rest of that list in the UK supporting Argentina's position?

Isn't it interesting to see who holds anti-establishment viewpoints in each country? Or are you making a case for not bothering discussing anything because you can find somebody with a different opinion about anything?

Isn't there now an airbase on the Falklands with a load of Typhoons stationed there? That sort of negates the aircraft carrier argument

If you call four (allowing a ripple of two) 'a load' then yes.

If you call four (allowing a ripple of two) 'a load' then yes.

How many A-A missiles does each one carry?

probably not enough. I believe the rapier units are the anti-air cover anyway.

The new type 45 destroyers are designed to protect forces from air attacks with its Sea Viper missile as well as providing fire support to ground troops.

IF Britain is ever forced to abandon the islands

That's a pretty massive "if". Who is going to force us?

america might take a fancy to it if we find oil down there 😮

America is in the process of securing an oil deal in the Falklands waters, they don't need to and they'll get very trigger happy if the Argentines interfere with the billion dollar deal. Although the Amraams the Typhoons currently carry wouldn't get a 1:1 missile/kill ratio in a BVR situation... the fact that 4 Tiffies can carry enough Amraams to potentially wipe out 3/4ths of the Argentine fast jet force....should hopefully discourage any silliness on their part. A T45 parked off the coast as close to the airbase would further compound any Argentine air strikes, this ship carries 45 anti air missiles for immediate use and potentially more in storage. Then the airbase itself is defended by short range Rapier SAM's, squaddies with shoulder launched Starstreak SAMS and a **** load of small arms (which are still dangerous to low flying jets).

The Argie air force would have it's arse handed to it if they ever attempted anything. Honestly the RAF and Army brass are not that stupid and have made a logical considered approach to defending the islands.

4 Tiffies can carry enough Amraams to potentially wipe out 3/4ths of the Argentine fast jet force

That would appear to make 4 a load - at least in the mind of anybody in Argentina considering taking them on.

So - finished spaffing over guns and bombs yet? Really rather distasteful. its not a video game and the tone some of you are using...............

You are talking about killing people.

Nahh I've just had enough of the "Hoe maiii gawd what did you do to the carriers....RUUUUUULE BRITANNIA" Daily Mail crowd. I didn't really want to talk about it but the idiocy was annoying me.

You guys are a bit thin skinned on here.

You don't understand "defence" do you, TJ? The whole point of having such an overwhelming military force there is that nobody will get hurt. I don't think anybody has got excited about the idea of killing lots of argies except in the sense that the threat is enough to put them off trying.

The whole point of having such an overwhelming military force there is that nobody will get hurt. I don't think anybody has got excited about the idea of killing lots of argies except in the sense that the threat is enough to put them off trying.

THIS

+1 aracer such force also acts as a deterrent to would be aggressors thus avoiding bloodshed.

But if we have to use it I for one want to be on the winning side. There are no prizes for second place.

Column by Sean Penn

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/23/sean-penn-falklands-malvinas-diplomacy-interrupted

LOL!

Has Argentina made an idiot of itself? 😆

http://en.mercopress.com/2012/02/21/timerman-falklands-militarization-claim-with-little-echo-at-un-admits-argentine-press

and hurt their own economy?

http://en.mercopress.com/2012/02/21/argentina-uk-2011-bilateral-trade-totalled-1.4bn-dollars-could-suffer-malvinas-dispute-impact 😀

My that president of theirs is a brilliant politico. Perhaps she should lay off the plastic surgery and start reading a few more books. Has anyone noticed that almost all Argie soy beans are GM and consequently we could have them banned by the EU if we really could be bothered.

Americans now taking an interest in the oil? 🙂

http://en.mercopress.com/2012/02/17/us-member-of-congress-begins-one-week-visit-to-falklands-next-monday

Column by Sean Penn

Strewth - I read through all that in the hope he was going to make sense at some point. I hope he's a better actor than he is a writer.

Ooh there's some people in this thread who really know a lot about weapons. I think I'm getting a little bit turned on.

TJ in colonising the moral high-ground by force of arms shocker...

TandemJeremy - Member

So - finished spaffing over guns and bombs yet? Really rather distasteful. its not a video game and the tone some of you are using...

[img] [/img]

aracer - Member

You don't understand "defence" do you, TJ? The whole point of having such an overwhelming military force there is that nobody will get hurt. I don't think anybody has got excited about the idea of killing lots of argies except in the sense that the threat is enough to put them off trying.

Oooh I don't know - some of them seemed to be getting rather overexcited adn the pejorative and jingoistic attitudes and language being used is rather unpleasant

the pejorative and jingoistic attitudes and language being used is rather unpleasant

I feel some self-imposed offence being taken....

EDIT:

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

That's pretty jingoistic, given Argentina's past attempts at enforcing this

It's quite simple TJ

We have enough assets down there to maintain air superiority
Without air superiority, they won't try anything so no one will get hurt

unless they fancy flying suicide sortes

I bought the Ark Royal so I'll lend you it if you want ?

I've just realised an interesting point everybody missed. Not one mention of the Chagossians by the Argentine intellectuals. You should get onto them right away to put them straight, TJ.

[b]Las Malvinas son Argentinas[/b]

That's pretty jingoistic, given Argentina's past attempts at enforcing this

Indeed.

Ooh there's some people in this thread who really know a lot about weapons. I think I'm getting a little bit turned on.

Jingoism is extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy.[1] In practice, it is a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. Colloquially, it refers to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others – an extreme type of nationalism.

That Sean Penn article really is spectacularly badly written. 😕

Having read that article by Sean Penn, I think we need to invite him to join STW. Talking shite about a subject you clearly know **** all about? He'd fit right in 😀

even with your high recommendations it was I struggle with long sentences after about two paragraphs

Sean Penn clearly wrote that Guardian piece because of the flaming he was getting for gobbing off about something he has at best a slender grasp of. Basically claiming "Thats not what I said". Dont think that PR strategy going to go too well.

He was great in Schindlers List though.

[img] [/img]

Oooh I don't know - some of them seemed to be getting rather overexcited adn the pejorative and jingoistic attitudes and language being used is rather unpleasant

just like the sweaty's talking about their real mountains, tennis player and track cyclist.