Forum menu
The bigger issue here is that the trains are too expensive. You'd have less fair dodgers if the prices weren't so high. As above, the real reason the prices are so high is the fact that it's privatised and not subsidised enough.
They used to issue penalty fares at Reading when the festival was on.
Pointless as Reading has barriers.
Money grabbing as it's the one day of the year that every station for miles arround has half hour ques as the local yoof sort out their rail card and ketamine for the weekend.
The rest of the year you can just jump on the train and pay the guard.
As for Scotland being more civilised............... the penalty fare is the normal fare, you just can't buy a return or use a railcard so it's the full price and there's a minimum of £25 to deter people jumping on/off for one stop.
We are still subsidising private train companies 🙁 might as well just give money to the shareholders and cut out the middle bit.
The bigger issue here is that the trains are too expensive. You'd have less fair dodgers if the prices weren't so high. As above, the real reason the prices are so high is the fact that it's privatised and not subsidised enough.
That's a seperate issue. The OPs example and things like this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30475232
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32251271
Suggest that ability to pay is not the only cause.
And on a related note, anyone else get very, VERY annoyed when people waiting for a train stand exactly where the doors open and get the hump when they have to move to allow you to get off?
Anyone with any semblence of manners would be (IS) annoyed by that. Plus people trying to barge onto the train while people are getting off. Bloody well wait you f******.
It happens with the lifts at work now FFS!
Can't say I have ever been refused buying a ticket off a guard " after " boarding a train, be it Southern or South West Trains. Some machines at stations don't take cash, I don't normally carry a card with me on a point to point ride and often hop on a train back home paying the guard whilst on the train.
Clearly different if entering a large station like say Southampton Central, but regional ones it's easy to hop on, buy ticket, hop right on off again.
I use trains quite a lot, been bloody annoyed at missing connections, I'd say there ought to be more fines for trains that are late or cancelled rather than the the attitude train companies have "against" commuters. You really ought to be able to buy a ticket on the train from the guard when he asks " can I see your tickets please" right there at that time, provided you pay for your journey I really don't know why there is a problem with that.
That's what I think anyway.
Surely even unmanned stations have ticket machines these days.
My local station doesn't, and that's in the middle of Bristol.
Inspectors do seem very inconsistent - I got on the train at Paddington recently and fell asleep. Upon being woken up by the inspector, it turned out I'd missed my booked train and had got on the next one. He was happy for me to pay the difference between a pre-booked ticket and walk on fare.
You really ought to be able to buy a ticket on the train from the guard when he asks " can I see your tickets please" right there at that time, provided you pay for your journey I really don't know why there is a problem with that.
Because a fairly sizeable minority will just view that as "I don't have to buy a ticket unless I'm asked for one" and won't bother...
In Surrey, the machine never accepted £20 and higher.
The permit to travel machine surely saw a lot of use.
If you do abuse that, then always make sure fivers and tenners are not obvious in the wallet when buying ticket from the guard 😉
If you genuinely only have a £20, then are you really supposed to go in the Chinese takeaway next door to get some change before buying a ticket?
I dodged my way from London to Scotland last year after getting on the wrong train. (ironically, my ticket was more expensive) Added a bit of fun to the jounery if I'm honest.
I see train tickets are more confusing and stupid than ever, you have to chose "Direct" or "Any permitted" routes, like you have any idea what that entails when you're in a hurry for a ticket... Oh it's twice the price, no time to cancel. What a surprise.....
Because a fairly sizeable minority will just view that as "I don't have to buy a ticket unless I'm asked for one" and won't bother...
Sure but if asked then they would have to pay up or get off at the next station.
I know I live in cuckoo land, a simple world where most folk do buy tickets.
I once saw a Girl flashing her fanny at her boyfriend in the opposite seat, that was hilarious when she realised about 20 folk in the opposite seats could also see her bits.... 😆
I had a conversation with a young lad from the local independent grammar school about fare dodging (he was trying to...). it went along the lines of -
you can afford to pay but are trying to avoid paying, you'll get a good education, good job, become a captain of industry and likely screw up the economy and country because you haven't learnt basic honesty and personal integrity...
this was shortly before the banking crash.
And on the 10%/50%/90% of journeys they don't get asked do they pay up at the destination station or think kerching, free travel. Basically the worst case scenario needs to be worse that just paying for something you should have bought anyway. Need to get away from the attitude that it's ok if you don't get caught (true with a lot of other crimes too)Sure but if asked then they would have to pay up or get off at the next station.
I once saw a Girl flashing her fanny at her boyfriend in the opposite seat, that was hilarious when she realised about 20 folk in the opposite seats could also see her bits....
POIDH!
On the Reading – Gatwick train, most mornings the guard walks through the train asking if anyone needs to buy a ticket (even though I think all stations have a ticket machine). Some mornings, the guard seemingly can’t be arsed, and people knock on his door at the end of the train and ask to buy a ticket.
Makes me wonder how many people, who alight from the train at a small station without a barrier only buy a ticket if the guy happens to come round the train.
There’s also a guy who buys his ticket from the guard, even though he gets on at Reading where there are barriers at every entrance. How does he get as far as the platform with no ticket?
There’s also a guy who buys his ticket from the guard, even though he gets on at Reading where there are barriers at every entrance. How does he get as far as the platform with no ticket?
You could get a train from a station outside Reading and change at Reading.
I used to get the trains from Wokingham to Pangbourne to go ride in the Chilterns and use up unused portions of open return tickets for part of the journey and buy the Reading-Pangbourne section on the train.
If you were feeling disshonest, you could get on in Earley and get off in Tilehurst and they'd not check as they presumably assume you'd get stopped at the barriers in Reading.
Personally, and I accept this view may be tainted by the fact that I pay a good sum for my season ticket each month, I'd use the penalty fare much more often, along with kicking people off at the next station. I'd also make it that you can only buy a 1 way ticket on the train thereby forcing the individual to buy another single to get home again.
The "sorry mate, I would have missed my train" would also be null and void, you need to plan time to get a ticket so do that. People who get on at stations without a place to buy should be very actively encouraged to find the guard not wait to get caught.
And the British Rail v's private rail debate. As a regular train user IMO the trains now are cleaner, better, more regular and more timely. They're not perfect but don't forget how bad they were under BR, they were really, REALLY bad back then.
Not quite the same but,
I used to do Manchester / Preston to London semi-regularly, and they offered an on-train First Class upgrade for something like ten or fifteen quid at weekends. I'd board the train and then decide whether or not to upgrade depending on the state of cattle class that day. The first time I did it I was a bit nervous, taking a seat without paying first, but it quickly turned out to be totally normal.
So one day I hopped on, took my seat in First. Yes thank you, coffee and biscuits sounds lovely. Settled in, got a movie going on the tablet, all was well with the world.
Conductor arrives, card in hand I cheerily go "I'd like to upgrade please."
"Certainly sir, that will be a hundred and forty seven pounds."
*blinks*
As it turned out, "Friday" is not a weekend. Who knew? I apologised, explained the error of my ways whilst the conductor fixed me with the steely glare normally reserved for rapists, axe murderers and fare dodgers. What can I do? "Well," he says, "you've eaten the biscuits." I pointed out that for nearly a hundred and fifty quid I could've bought my own biscuit business, which didn't help my cause.
"Erm... I'll just go then, shall I...?" I offered. "Yes sir, I think that would be for the best." Packed up my stuff and did the walk of shame past all the suits looking disapprovingly over their expensive glasses at me. Being in England, there may even have been some tutting. Kill me now.
depends. if you got to the station too late to get a ticket I can see their point. If you got to the station in plenty of time but due to management ineptitude/staff illness/whatever there's a queue of customers out of the door (as I frequently find at my local station) and only 1 or 2 ticket windows operating, then yes it's a bit much to refuse to let people through who are going to miss their train.my trains there, its leaving in 10 seconds, ive got a connection to catch, and theres a guard on board who has the facility to sell me a ticket... but nopes
Does piss me off when you see people walk through, get asked for a ticket and they give the ticket guy a sneer and walk off, ticket guy then ignores them! hang on so you're only here to slow down paying customers and to "catch" quiet docile fare dodgers?
If you are civilised, approach the guard and explain, theu are normally fine. Our station shuts the ticket office at noon. The machine has a notoriously fussy card reader that sometimes just won't read a card. The guards are always happy for reasonable people to approach them.
I used to be able to buy a family travelcard from Datchet. That ticket was not sold by the machine, so again a chat with the guard never failed to produce either a ticket sale or a pass to buy at Waterloo.
Sounds like the OP's observation was plain fare-dodging.
Incidently, children are allowed to travel without a fare and the bill can be sent on afterwards. Again a reasonable compromise when kids lose stuff!
"Friday" is not a weekend. Who knew?
Everyone!
Everyone!
well.....weekend rate parking at our station car park starts at 1200 on Friday for some reason.
But in the main, I'd go with you!
Is it still the case that you are allowed to travel free if you have a bicycle with a puncture? Some colleagues used to do this in South Yorkshire.
This is one of the positives about the Oyster Card system. I have been asked for my ticket on the DLR before when I have innocently forgotton to renew my monthly pass, or to touch in and the guy checking the card can see on screen that yes, I have bought monthly season tickets for each of the last 6 months and this is an innocent mistake, and then lets me just buy the ticket when I get to where I am going. Then on the flip side I have seen them ask people who say they "forgot to touch in" and from on the screen they can see that they appear to "forget to touch in" on every journey home and they fine them
I got a ticket for driving in a bus-lane, apparently Friday doesn't count as the weekend just because you have the day off. Outrageous.
It's about time trains were ticketless. Should be all done on a boarding pass on your phone.
Yes, the best solution would be to force anyone who wants to use a train to purchase and maintain a mobile device capable of displaying a ticket. Faultless solution, indeed...
become a captain of industry and likely screw up the economy and country because you haven't learnt basic honesty and personal integrity...
Aren't the latter pre-requisites for the former?
Just to clarify,
I do know Friday isn't part of the weekend, that was a joke! I'd only ever taken advantage of the upgrade offer on Sunday's return journey before, a fact that didn't occur to me when I did it on the way down after work on the Friday without giving a second thought to what day it was.
Top Tip as a rail enthusiast, if you cant buy a ticket before travel or arrive at destination station and get told to buy a ticket at booking office, ensure you take the tickets off the clerk, if a return (2 parts) out and return , as what they will do is keep the part of your outward ticket eg from a to b, and then resell it as part of a return form b to a, to their mates at a lower price.And defraud the train operating company they work for.
Also train guards/conductors/managers or whatever theyre called this month get paid a percentage of fares collected on trains so will try and sell you the highest priced ticket, to earn more cash for themselves and the TOC.
Top Tip as a rail enthusiast, if you cant buy a ticket before travel or arrive at destination station and get told to buy a ticket at booking office, ensure you take the tickets off the clerk, if a return (2 parts) out and return , as what they will do is keep the part of your outward ticket eg from a to b, and then resell it as part of a return form b to a, to their mates at a lower price.And defraud the train operating company they work for.
Top Tip as a regular train traveller - you need both tickets to do a return trip and if you only need one, then just buy a SINGLE ticket.
but the ticket ofice chap sells you a single and a gives you the return bit he just off the unsuspeccting passenger for a few quid instead of full price.
I've never heard of that happening. Sounds a bit urban legendy.
oh maaaaan
last time I got on a train from Bristol to Exeter I only had an off-peak ticket but mistakenly got on a peak time train..
I'd been awake for a couple of days and was pretty tired, stressed, discombobulated and tipsy and neeeded to get home asap, so I just jumped on the first train that came into the station..
Every seat on the train was reserved but on that line a reserved seat is often pretty meaningless as you can sit in an empty carriage of 'reserved' seats for the entire journey..
I had to move about ten times before finally getting a safe spot as more people got on at various stops and grumpily informed me that I was in their seat.. I was getting some pretty withering looks from the other passengers by the end of the ordeal, and was feeling pretty uncomfortable..
It made me feel very sad for a young homeless guy that I know who regularly makes the journey with no money or ticket - cold, tired, hungry, dirty and feeling worthless
Of course, as a younger less sensitive soul, jumping the train was a normal mode of transport, and if I got to piss off some jumped up pillock in first class with my cavalier attitude it just made the journey even more enjoyable 😉
It's about time trains were ticketless. Should be all done on a boarding pass on your phone.
Yes, the best solution would be to force anyone who wants to use a train to purchase and maintain a mobile device capable of displaying a ticket. Faultless solution, indeed...
The technology for this already exists, and is used by millions every week in London, and other cities.
I use it every time I go to London, and the mate I go with uses it now, despite not having a phone with that tech.
I use my Oyster card, he uses his RFID contactless payment card. It's taking time for the travel companies to get up to speed and allow phones with payment tech built in to use the existing system.
And for it to spread to public transport systems nationwide.
Of course, as a younger less sensitive soul, jumping the train was a normal mode of transport, and if I got to piss off some jumped up pillock in first class with my cavalier attitude it just made the journey even more enjoyable
Yay, more sticking it to the man. You're a hero.
little and often Boycey... little and often 😀
You're still a youngster, you'll thank me when you've matured a bit..
We should meet up some time.. you need a hug
Gladly meet up, sure you're nothing like the character you portray on here. Could do it on a train too, just make sure you've got a valid ticket. 😉
Been using trains fairly often for over 10 years and had no idea you needed a ticket before you got on the train. I pay on the train every week and always get the off-peak discount too. I've found out the hard way on the Newcastle metro that you needed tickets prior to boarding but never on an ordinary overground train
Been using trains fairly often for over 10 years and had no idea you needed a ticket before you got on the train.
You don't always - depends on the company and area.
last time I got on a train from Bristol to Exeter I only had an off-peak ticket but mistakenly got on a peak time train..
What's 'peak time'?
Serious question, there doesn't seem to be any sort of consistency across TOC's. Some it's before 0930, others include 1630-1830, some depend on what way the moon is facing...
Peak will depend on when the peak hours of that line are, so a direct train from London might have a peak that ends later than others.
Having done a stint on trains over christmas when I was back all "Specified Route" trains were announced on the platform and well before the doors closed and I'm sure the peak ones were too.
Sometimes people like the ignorance excuse though.
Though from my short observations
As said on the previous pages what is it about standing in front of the doors when a train arrives, they don't half look surprised when an Evoc bike bag comes out the door Alien style.
Why are the doors so small on trains in the UK? The bigger the doors the faster you can get people on and off.
When did 1st class become so stingy? I remember getting a free bar and what ever I wanted on the West Coast on a Friday night (Virgin) on the XC and the rest I was really limited, one sandwich per 300 miles or something
I used to regularly get the Sheffield-Derby train for work. It's now become more viable to drive what with the time + cost of it.
Anyway, I got a penalty fare once for not having a valid ticket as my tenth £70 monthly in a row had expired "No problem" thinks I, "I'll get a return on the train as I've done countless times before". Well no, because on East Midlands trains you're not allowed to do that, whereas on Stagecoach you are. Both trains run the same line, stops and destination but alternate every 25 minutes.
The officious prick had the facility to charge a fine, but not to sell a ticket apparently.
I think the most annoying thing was the dick sitting across from me who said " just pay it, the way you're dressed it looks like you can afford it", who when sat next to me on the return journey denied all knowledge of his comment.
I suppose I shouldn't go out in my ermine though really. Or my Jimmy Choose.
erious question, there doesn't seem to be any sort of consistency across TOC's
There's not. Sometimes it's about arrival times in London. Some have evening peak, some don't. Bit of a minefield!
Why are the doors so small on trains in the UK? The bigger the doors the faster you can get people on and off.
When did 1st class become so stingy? I remember getting a free bar and what ever I wanted on the West Coast on a Friday night (Virgin) on the XC and the rest I was really limited, one sandwich per 300 miles or something
Depends on the train, always has. Generally commuter services have double doors at 1/3 and 2/3 splits. Designed for speed and efficiency of loading, and large vestibules for standing or luggage. Longer distance trains have single doors at the ends to offer a nicer atmosphere on board. Gatwick Express got it wrong as they took over the stock originally designed for London - Poole/Weymouth services.
First class facilities vary by TOC (spotting the theme?). Virgin will give you a hot sandwich and a beer, but as you say are very elusive after a first 'pass'. First Great Western only offer hot/soft drinks and snacks, but are very good at coming round regularly throughout the journey and encouraging you to help yourself from the trolley if not. Southern you get an antimacassar and theee surly teenagers playing the ignorance card.