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Houns - so a copy and paste from some anonymous post on a comments section.
Could be the same one then 😉
There are a few soldiers on another forum I go on. They are itching to get brought in for a good ruck.
Then they are a disgrace to their uniforms and no better than the looters.On the news just now; apparently 'no evidence' that the weapon found in the car was fired.
Who do you think squaddies are Elfin? saints?
I have known a few paras and whilst nice blokes, they have a certain mentality, remember killing people isn't really normal is it!
As for the weapon, i guess that comes down to what do you think is going to happen, shoot first ask questions later, or wait till you've been shot before reacting. I doubt we will ever know the truth, far to many on both sides with an agenda.
I've just been arrested for torching the DFS shop in Croydon. It's not so bad, I have five years to pay the fine and I don't have to go to prison until 2013.
Hopefully you can only take these jokes so far. (sofa...geddit?)
do people actually want the police to be guilty of lying and covering up?
if so why? is it just so you can say 'I told you so'
I can see no other reason.
On the news just now; apparently 'no evidence' that the weapon found in the car was fired.
What ****ing difference does that make?
This isn't an 18th Century duel, He doesn't get to have a free shot at the police before they're allowed to shoot back.
He had an illegally held, loaded weapon - we'll await further comment from the IPCC investigation that confirms his reactions to the police challenge!
As usual - the mash hits the spot:
Ok, fred has checked in, has anybody seen Ernie today? I worry you see.
What **** difference does that make?
Well presumably the IPCC thought it was important enough to release a statement saying so.
You think they shouldn't have bothered Zulu-Eleven ?
I've been cruising round my manor duckman ...... it's not a pretty sight.
But thanks for the concern 🙂
How do you know it was loaded Zulu?
You do know that witnesses say the gun was in his sock?
Ernie/TJ
The IPCC also took the opportunity to confirm that the pistol found at the scene WAS a live pistol, and WAS loaded with ammunition
I wonder why Elfin chose not to highlight those facts as well?
Looter caught on camera.
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You do know that witnesses say the gun was in his sock?
and witnesses always tell the truth don't they 🙄
For TJ etc i got the link from here> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/riots-caused-by-society-or-lazy,-thieving-pricks,-say-experts-201108094174/
On a serious note, this is awful, hope all the Lahndan STW'ers and theirs get through this ok.
[s****s at Houns]
EDIT: actually I can't be bothered
🙂
So the guy didn't fire his weapon - is that somehow justification for him having a gun on the streets, and not surrendering despite several calls from the old bill (apparently)
If you play with fire....
Interesting. Guy didnt fire on the police before he was killed.
So the guy didn't fire his weapon - is that somehow justification for him having a gun on the streets, and not surrendering despite several calls from the old bill (apparently)
No, but it highlights the miss-information the police have been releasing so far about the events, its yet more evidence of the way the police and the press work together to create a false story and it displays the dishonest way they deal with the community.
Sorry SBZ - do you think that the police should ONLY be allowed to open fire AFTER an armed suspect has fired at them?
Simple question, yes or no answer please!
so was Mr Duggan a law abiding person and had the loaded gun for legit reasons ???
If anyone gets shot by the cops on the street while in possession of a firearm, on or off ticket, loaded or not, I can't really see how you can even start asking why!
If a person is on possession of such a weapon they must surely be expecting some comeback.
(The problem arises though if a dopey cop THINKS you've got a weapon. Different scenario!)
MSP:
Can you point me to anything where the [b]police[/b] actually claimed that he HAD fired first, or can you only point me to newspaper reports that said a bullet had hit a police radio, and put two and two together?
I find the timing of the press release a bit odd. As we've seen ^^^ it's easy to read a few different things into the info. Why release it this evening when the one thing you're trying to do is calm things down? Wouldn't tomorrow morning been a better idea?
Can you point me to anything where the police actually claimed that he HAD fired first, or can you only point me to newspaper reports that said a bullet had hit a police radio, and put two and two together?
Are you really naive enough to believe that the police didn't release that information in order to create an impression of the events that happened.
do you think that the police should ONLY be allowed to open fire AFTER an armed suspect has fired at them?
They should be allowed to fire if threatened. So if the person raises or points the gun. If they are able to shoot to wound that would be preferable but I understand that this is unrealistic given a real world scenario. I don't think having a gun on your person warrants being shot.
Surrounded By Zulus - Member
Interesting. Guy didnt fire on the police before he was killed.
POSTED 5 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
That makes it ok then, they should have doffed their cap and let him on his way. 🙄
the police position is that there was a "threat to life". That's sufficient for them to open fire. It doesnt require them to have been shot at.
So long as they can prove the threat to life claim then there's not much more to it than that.
Bloody stupid of them to mention the round in the radio before ballistics/SOC had determined where it came from though, as it's obviously misled peoples' interpretation of what happened.
I find the timing of the press release a bit odd. As we've seen ^^^ it's easy to read a few different things into the info. Why release it this evening when the one thing you're trying to do is calm things down? Wouldn't tomorrow morning been a better idea?
I think they are starting to realise that the truth is more powerful than lies. The storeys and treatment of the aftermath caused wider discontent than the actual event itself, it had all the hallmarks of a cover up, now they have to demonstrate that it isn't.
Who do you think squaddies are Elfin? saints?
No, but I'd expect them to be highly trained, disciplined individuals capable of exercising sufficient restraint not to go waffling on about being 'up for a ruck'. This isn't a game; if they were called upon to act, I, and I imagine everyone else, would hope they acted according to what was necessary in order to prevent violence, not go round kicking off themselves. The last thing we need is more mindless thugs out on the streets.
I have known a few paras and whilst nice blokes, they have a certain mentality, remember killing people isn't really normal is it!
I don't consider someone who wants to inflict violence and suffering on others 'nice', but there you go. You are free to chose whatever company you like I spose.
I've met military personnel who abhor killing and violence, having had to be involved in such acts. Your statement reinforces the view that some people join the military cos they are up for violence. Makes them no better than the rioters. Putting on a uniform doesn't absolve you of being a violent thug.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554 ]
[/url]The Metropolitan force has released what it says will be the "first of many" CCTV images of rioting suspects, while 32 people have appeared in court charged with offences such as burglary and criminal damage during the previous riots.Among them were a graphic designer, college students, a youth worker, a university graduate and [b]a man signed up to join the army[/b].
Are you really naive enough to believe that the police didn't release that information in order to create an impression of the events that happened.
and are you naive enough to believe what his friends and family are saying? It works both ways.
Yeah I guess. Looks like Manchester is up and running. Wonder if we'll see more regional problems tonight rather than London ones.
Zulu-Eleven - Is that not the way it's supposed to work? Only take a life if their life is in danger?
and are you naive enough to believe what his friends and family are saying? It works both ways.
No, of course not, but his family and friends don't have experience of briefing the press.
FTFYSurrounded By Zulus - Member
Zulu-Eleven - Is that not the way it's supposed to work? Only take a life if [b]they believe[/b] their life is in danger?
Elfin, no it doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility , and yes some people do join the army because it allows an outlet for violence. Being a soldier means you will be expected to kill people and potentially die, that is the job, if you go in thinking anything else then you are incredibly stupid.
I don't consider someone who wants to inflict violence and suffering on others 'nice', but there you go. You are free to chose whatever company you like I spose.
context, someone can be pleasant in certain circumstances, but it doesn't stop them being capable of killing someone.
Indeed druidh!
indeed!
I've got a couple of friends deeply involved in Operation Trident. They are the most restrained and controlled people that I know. Although they never speak in detail about their work, their intelligence work is immense. I am not a defender of the police lying or shooting people, but I can only surmise that in shooting Mark Duggan they calculated a known risk and acted upon their intelligence and highly trained instincts.
[i]don't think having a gun on your person warrants being shot[/i]
Not in the Highlands on a deer stalk or the NYM on a grouse shoot, I agree, but on the streets of a city? Are you on glue or what?
highly trained instincts
😕 ❓
good point druidh.
Im not sure how the threat to life defence is constructed. Is it a reasonable test (i.e. is it reasonable to believe there's a threat to life from the offender's actions) or is it personal, i.e. they just have to make the case that they genuinely believed that there was a threat to life in the actions.
highly trained instincts.
shoot first ask questions later.
MSP why do you need experience of briefing the press, look in the media, not just this occasion, but time and time again, how often does the family come out saying he was a wonderful person, how often do you get the family saying the deceased was a $hit.
Everyone has an agenda.