MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
If the kids that are out on the street burning stuff had actually had some [s]investment in their education[/s] interest in their education then they'd realise how bloody stupid they are being
FIFY
I've only read pages 1,2 & 26-28.
There are 2 main camps
1 - the useless f@>>£R camp where the yoofs have sponged of the welfare state so long that a short sharp caning with a water cannon should send them back under their rock. They've failed the system.
2 - the lack of investment camp where the yoofs have become an underclass due to lack of investment in education, opportunity and community support. The system has failed them.
Or not
I could be completely wrong (and according to my wife usually am).
Oh shut it you tart binners.
This will help alleviate your pain:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metropolitanpolice/6024941771/in/photostream
This may have been posted.....
[url=
at work[/url]
"The system has failed them" No their parents and they themselves have failed, less of the buck passing 🙂
1. Get this sorted quick and fast.
2. Look at the underlying cause, which yes lies with problems with Society etc etc. This includes investment, boot camps (apparently the right wing approach), nicely nicely cuddly touchy feely poor you approach (left wing)
Liking this 🙂
Oh shut it you tart binners.This will help alleviate your pain:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/metropolitanpolice/6024941771/in/photostream
The welfare state has fed her well. She should have joined the looting of Evans - she could do with some cycling from the looks of her.
I'm taking it the people who are expressing views about the '****less unemployed' haven't spent any time unemployed themselves recently? And I hope you never doBelieve me, the reality of life on benefits is about as far removed from the Daily Mails depiction of a nice cushy layabout lifestyle as it is possible to get. Its soul destroying!!!
Then why are all the minimum wage jobs filled by Poles, Romanians, Afghans and pretty much every nationality you can think of, rather than the young English people who are in such abject poverty on benefits?
These people come across the whole of Europe, for a wage that our own yoof cannot be arsed getting out of bed for!
Kids running wild on the streets, calls for the police to batter them.
If only there was someone to protect the yoof:
Believe me if you'd have physically touched those children I would have protected them.
?????
Because unlike honest binners the ****less really know how to play the system and make money on the side.
I was on the dole once. I start shudder thinking about it. In the Job centre in Kilburn/London with the ****er behind the desk saying 'so why are you here and what will you do to find work'?
Talked to me like I'd never worked or wanted to. Lowest.
"Talked to me like I'd never worked or wanted to. Lowest."
Unfortunately, my wife deals with dross every day of her life, and she says unfortunately after a while you switch off and just do your job because they have no respect for you, dont interact with you, cant interact with you etc etc.
In the Job centre in Kilburn/London with the ****er behind the desk saying 'so why are you here and what will you do to find work'?
Always nice to reply "Keeping you in a job, so thank me." 😀
Yeah a friend used to work in the Bradford dole office and said he just had to sit there signing form after form, giving money away to people he knew were cheating the system. One occasion he told me of a guy who walked in telling him the dole money he had just collected had blown out of his hand outside the post office and needed an emergency payment. My mate had to authorise it.
Funky later on I received a letter saying I wasn't entitled to receive unemployment benefit but possibly income support with a letter to follow in a few weeks. I just went out from 8am to very late until I got a job.
So enfit and the others who hate my / elfs/ Ernies analysis two questions.1) why has this happened?
2) how to prevent it happening again?
1) because the rule of law broke down when the police demonstrated that they were not prepared to stop it in its early stages - so a group of ignorant people with a self indulgent, self righteous, false sense of victimhood then realised that the police were no more prepared to stand up to them than their parents and teachers have been - they are doing it simply because they are being allowed to.
2) react with overwhelming police force and swift and punitive justice (including prosecution of parents)in the early stages.
yossarian - MemberThey are disrespectful, thieving, opportunistic, lazy, selfish, greedy bastards.
So are the media, the bankers and the politicians. Actually you could aim a fair bit of that at the middle classes too couldn't you?
What happened last night was an expression of our society. Like it or not it is actually up to us to sort this out. No-one else will. Prevention is always better than cure right? Yes, prosecute those involved and deter others from starting but creating conditions in communities where young people actually see a point to living with respect towards each other that doesn't rely on weapons and violence is fundemental.
We've got a chance now. After this and the news international stuff there's clear evidence that our structure has failed for those at the bottom whilst those at the top get richer. It needs to be changed or this will keep happening. What we saw last night was significant. It was a message to the police - WE ARE NOT SCARED OF YOU. If the only response is force then we are sowing the seeds for more of the same.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6359363.stm
Thats where we start.
Oh and it doesn't matter who's fault it is.
This is the best post so far. But what has been the ultimate cause? Is it capitalism? Will the system that gave us freedom and aspirations ultimately be our downfall? What are the alternatives and how can we undo the damage that's been caused to the young generation? I think these events are simply the zeitgiest, but are currently overshadowing the other major issue here which is the impending economic collapse. There are definitely hard times ahead and likely worse to come.
borris is back!
were saved
edit
hes getting slapped down by shopkeepers on 5live right now
You reckon? The only people who actually used Sure Start round here were the middle class mums who wanted to take their toddler to a well organised group. The people it was aimed at didn't use it as that would involve leaving the house.
My wife says there's some very "deserving" (read crap) mothers who used the local sure start group here. Just for the record.
And on a general note, it is possible to be liberal/blame the Tories for this mess and still want to see tear gas and rubber bullets deployed you know.
This is the best post so far.
Really?
Because this sounds like an incitement to violence to me;
We've got a chance now..... It was a message to the police - WE ARE NOT SCARED OF YOU. If the only response is force then we are sowing the seeds for more of the same.
Great. Lovely.
Would you hug these hoodies?
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Listening to Radio 4 at lunchtime I had to laugh - Cable was there saying "We'll catch all these criminals and punish them as seems fit"
The Police are having severe cutbacks, forensics won't be paid for, govt were talking of scrapping CCTV, Prisons are overflowing/being closed - so what is the actual deterrent?
Public disorder offence.
A fine and 6month suspended sentence.
hopefully the SCUM BAG on the bike will get a puncture from the broken glass that will give way and see him under a bus (with his new trainers hanging out - like the wizard of OZ)
So now you can identify each looter by the very fact that they're wearing "new" trainers eh..
Interesting.
heavy force - surely there are no innocent people shopping for trainers there today?
f@#king retards are robbing trainers when there's a pawnbrokers next door (probably with a window full of gold)
Night time IED's in the entrances of shops purveying electrical goods and branded sportswear.
Job done
Like how the white guys don't bother with hoodies!!
that's a completely blatant misquote
What ? Re read the wpost
reckon the little fat white chap is ring the police or his mates to get down there?
Just an observation that will likely see me flamed but I thought it was striking that the Camden residents looting were mainly black whilst those in the clean up vid were predominately white. Why? Is the split representative of employment, wealth, opportunity, role models, community blah blah. I don't know, but why is there such a clear difference?
Trying not to stereotype and very aware of how this may read.
we need the A-team !
reckon the little fat white chap is ring the police or his mates to get down there?
He certainly doesn't seem to be interested in Holland and Barrett.
CaptainFlashheart - MemberThis is the best post so far.
Really?
Because this sounds like an incitement to violence to me;
We've got a chance now..... It was a message to the police - WE ARE NOT SCARED OF YOU. If the only response is force then we are sowing the seeds for more of the same.
Great. Lovely.
No- I meant because it's a possible insight into the mindset of these people. Once you can understand that then you can start to address the problem. I'm still at the stage where I can't fully understand it.
sefton - Memberf@#king retards are robbing trainers when there's a porn brokers next door (probably with a window full of gold)
theres a porn brokers next door?
no one wants razzle or readers wives anymore, its all on the internet
or perhaps you meant prawn? 😉
The demographic is crystal clear.
What ? Re read the wpost
You re read it love. The dear old captain has taken a paragraph, cut a chunk out and given it a meaning that the original didn't convey. That's a misquote. Do try and keep up
its blatantly obvious these kids can do want they please - & boy do they know it
CRACK SOME F@~KING HEADS FFS!
its blatantly obvious these kids can do want they please - & boy do they know itCRACK SOME F@~KING HEADS FFS!
One thing will come of this- these kids will invincible and more blatant in muggings etc in the future.
Here's a clip of MiCycle in London being turned over. Can all the apologists explain what gives this knob heads to destroy peoples hard earned businesses?
right. that's my LBS. now I'm pissed off.
this is not a big corporate bike shop, it's a small community bike shop, they have initiatives which try to get people (including kids) involved in community-spirited activities.
So now its closer to home huh. How many liberal apologists will quieten down now?
Brakes - that rates as one of the most stupid comments so far
MAN SHOT IN CAR-
Breaking from Guardian web
"A man shot in his car during last night's rioting in Croydon, south London, died after being admitted to hospital. He was discovered in a car suffering from gunshot wounds at about 9.15pm as trouble flared in the area."
That's disgraceful! RIOT! Oh hang on...
FunkyDunc - Member
Brakes - that rates as one of the most stupid comments so far
Why? Why should he/she (Apologies!) not be angry that a really positive new enterprise has been damaged by this? An enterprise which is, from what little I know of it, really working hard to try and improve the lives of their own community while also working with bikes. Double goodness in my view.
It pains me to say after recent forum activities, but TJ and Elf are among the main bastions of common sense here.
The apparent simplicity of everything as it appears to the [i]"hang the ****less scum"[/i] brigade makes me so very wish I could fall on that side of the camp. I truly am envious of anyone's ability to close their mind and live in blissful ignorance. A world of straightforward black and white must be so much easier to live in than the horrendously complex one I know.
Alain De Botton makes as good a point as any on the situation we're in.
In so far as advanced societies provide us with historically elevated incomes, they appear to make us richer. But in truth the net effect of these societies may be to impoverish us because, by fostering unlimited expectations they keep open a permanent gap between what we want and what we can afford, who we are and who we might be.
We face epic societal problems. The [i]"wooly liberal apologist"[/i] brigade are aware of how deeply flawed our way of life is, which means in the time it takes to compose anything even approaching a sensible, considered contribution to a discussion they know to be massively complex, their detractors who prefer to hold an ignorantly simplistic viewpoint can throw together countless ill conceived causes and solutions.
Unfortunately these hastily typed, over simplified retorts at best only ever seem to offer solutions to symptoms. The more considered people focus on the causes. They also understand that there is no "us and them". Just an "us".
It's much easier to ignore complex issues than it is to accept and face up to them, so the sheer volume of [i]"hanging's too good for em"[/i] idiocy in such debates will always overwhelm the few sensible points that somehow make it through.
As Darwin said:
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
Brakes - that rates as one of the most stupid comments so far
There's an idiot over on bike radar that said big chains like Starbucks were fair game for the rioters but they should leave small independents alone...
I have just been informed by someone who knows about things that the transport system In town may be about to start shutting down and to leave the project office and go home and work from there. It may be of interest to others.
What brompton tires for riots?
Its ok to damage/nick property from large organisations but not small independants? Perhaps brakes is aspiring to the same level of intelligence as our friends on the streets...
in the meantime let the anarchy continue 🙄
Jackthedog - but your missing the point.
By the time you have had the debates about how to make the world a better place through social reform, your friends on the streets will have realised they can get away with anything.
They need to be controlled asap, then do the nicey nicey bit.
Its ok to damage/nick property from large organisations but not small independants? Perhaps brakes is aspiring to the same level of intelligence as our friends on the streets...
that's not what I said, and not what I meant.
I am saying that the intentions of this shop are very different to the aspirations of the larger corporate stores, as I went on to describe.
they are also not in as good a position as corporate stores to be able to recover from such vandalism.
they have already realized this - there's a sickening picture of around 30 kids on the previous page to prove this!
These Police Officers are seriously outnumbered. Which idiot was in charge/put them in this situation?
The Ground Commanders need firing IMO
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456050
hora - Member
So now its closer to home huh. How many liberal apologists will quieten down now?
Quote people on here supporting the riots/looting on here or shut up about 'liberal apologists'.
Rubber bullets can kill as well to all those that have suggested them.
Hora - perfect example there of where CS and Baton rounds would have been of real use
Or a belt full of 7.62 😈
"Rubber bullets can kill as well to all those that have suggested them."
So can chucking big rocks, setting fire to cars, setting fire to property.
Why should Police officers put their own lives at risk and not be able to use comparable force?
Brakes - Still dont see what you are getting at? Big companies employ local people, help develop a community just as much as a small business. This is whole different topic anyhow and NOT relevant. The fact that property is being damaged regardless of who owns it, and it is wrong!
So can wide-spread Arson and throwing bricks at people trying to do their job. You know, something these people can't grasp the concept of.
Like I said, if the Police started throwing broken bricks back there wouldn't have been a second night of riots. The ****less don't have a stomach for pain, only if they can give pain.
Notice how they always seem to fight with a knife, gun or in big groups?
Quote people on here supporting the riots/looting on here or shut up about 'liberal apologists'.
Exactly. Nobody is supporting what's going on right now. I've followed this thread from the start and I haven't seen anyone actually in favour of this madness. Everybody here knows the problems on the ground right now need to be sorted in whatever way those responsible and qualified deem most appropriate.
Unfortunately it just seems impossible to talk about the wider issues without being branded a liberal apologist. Or in my case, being accused of missing the point. I wasn't. I was taking that point for granted, as I'm sure most of us wooly vegetarians are.
jackthedog - MemberIt pains me to say after recent forum activities, but TJ and Elf are among the main bastions of common sense here.
Thank you
How do these troubles compare to riots in the uk in the past? Worse than the poll tax riots?
A few observations after reading the posts above.
Some people on here clearly are not happy but don’t really seem to know why.
Lots of ‘sniping’ at other STW posters.
Lots of unrest in general amongst posters, not the usual my bike is better than yours stuff, more vicious.
This is war on anybody who's opinion is not liked or agreed with.
People on here seem to want to engage just for the sake of it.
Bit like what’s happening out there.
to be completely honest - right now I'm too angry & caught-up in this to think any deeper about the core problems/catalysts etc
right now I'd like to see some justice but all I'm seeing are pictures of these dregs of our f@#king society doing as they please - then I hear our home Secretary dodging yes or no question with typical political bulls@#t answers - we need to ask our children where they are tonight (like they are going to say "well actually we looted pc world then foot locker") - bulls@#t force is needed then the parents will be saying hey no way your going out that door.
All this who should we blame, who should we blame. Simple the people rioting.
For some reason in this country from the student riots to these riots we also ways try to blame others, police, government, society, and not the people actually doing the rioting. Yes there are social problems that need looking at but at the end of the day if you break the law you should feel the full force of the law.
I love how stupid these kids are as well that they post pictures of themselves with their loot on Facebook. They cant even do a good job at being a criminal. I liked what one policeman once said "The majority of criminals are STUPID, if not they wouldn't get caught"
A few observations after reading the posts above.Some people on here clearly are not happy but don’t really seem to know why.
Lots of ‘sniping’ at other STW posters.
Lots of unrest in general amongst posters, not the usual my bike is better than yours stuff, more vicious.
This is war on anybody who's opinion is not liked or agreed with.
People on here seem to want to engage just for the sake of it.
Bit like what’s happening out there.
Very true mate.
And now I come to think of it, the much-remarked increase in hostility on this forum does co-incide with the election of the coalition government as well.
Tiger those pics are fantastic !
I think they also blow away some of the stuff on here about the scumbags being from the dreggs of society. Some of them look very well dressed and hardly on the bread line.
I wish when I was out of work I could have afforded North Face jackets and posh trainers etc.
... or did they just nick it all?
I actually thought that given how emotive the topic is and how polarised the opinions most of it has been conducted in good spirit.
You know what, I think people are nervous and scared.
We (I) are sat in front of our PC's reading Twitter/BBC news/STW and we're hearing that bad things are happening in our towns and we are powerless. We want to stop it but just don't know how to make them, we want to go home and not be sitting nervously listneing to sirens and helicopters.
And when people are nervous they react and get angry because as people we like to be in control and right now, we're not.
So please, cut each other some slack as I think there are a few people on edge out there today.
Surrounded By Zulus - Member
How do these troubles compare to riots in the uk in the past? Worse than the poll tax riots?
Depends on what you mean by 'worse'
PT riots involved more people for a longer time, these looting riots are far more sporadic with smaller groups.
But I think the current events may be seen to be 'worse' in many respects because they are so unfocused and random whereas the PT riots were (at least initially) a politically motivated protest where perceived symbols of wealth and privelege were destroyed rather than acquired.
But PT riots did eventually turn in to a mass blagathon, I guess it's human nature close to it's worst in both cases......
So Boris has been heckled because the police presence and response has been ineffective...
Does anyone wonder whether the same people were complaining about the police being too heavy handed during the student tuition protests?
Does anyone wonder whether the same people were complaining about the police being too heavy handed during the student tuition protests?
No, because they are totally different.
Just to recap:
No.
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What brompton tires for riots?
Schwalbe.
We could do with borrowing the French CRS for a week or 2. They seem to clear things up rather swiftly.
LUNGE.
You make some good points.
"Does anyone wonder whether the same people were complaining about the police being too heavy handed during the student tuition protests? "
This does actually put into context all the right wing blowhards who condemned the student demos and anti capitalist demos as riots. Those were not riots and the police response to hippies and students was clearly over the top and violent.
Now we have real riots and the police response is to stand back try and contain (but not Kettle) and hope that they will fizzle out and that cctv will produce some convictions.
Yep i know the above is a gross over simplification but that seems par for the course at the moment.
😆 @ snake pic.