[Closed] Tottenham Riots

My Mother still taught me values though

Never given anything

Wait a minute...

Rioting has happened ever since people started living together in huge numbers.
You might as well try and stop the tides turning.

There is always a balance between those who feel that they have a legitimate grievance and opportunists.

You can't do anything about the opportunists, but surely it would be sensible to attempt to identify the root causes of the initial grievances and attempt to minimise the severity and frequency of future incidents?

Disenfranchisement, poverty and percieved persecution of those who initially riot always seem to be cited as the root causes, whether we agree from our own perspective that those reasons are valid or not.

And 'Riot', would have been a far more appropriate Kennedys track to quote in the current circumstances.

The problem with nukes is they destroy infrastructure as well. Reducing the economic potential of the area used.

What is need is some sort of massive global pandemic followed by population controls.

This will mean there are more resources per person and we might have a chance of providing a decent life for all.

It will be a bit like Britain after the black death where lack of labour lead to increased worker power and therefore workers wages and rights improved.

at least there is the full span of opinion on this thread.
unfortunately, the hard-right seem to be the only ones with solutions.
the hard left know the whys but not the hows.
are there no innovative, realist thinkers out there with workable ideas?

They hate neocons like you even more than hippies.

Lol of the week

are there no innovative, realist thinkers out there with workable ideas?

global pandemic ?

Its ALWAYS easier to blame someone else for your own short-comings.

So then Hora, you going to take your own advice?

As for the riots, well as they cut the Police by 25% and Youth Support by 75%; this is hardly surprising, and the Govt has been warned by the Met for months that this was going to happen.

As for increasing punishment for people, if we do that where are we going to put them? the Prisons are full already; and what's the point of punishing people who really don't care? If you have nothing to lose, then losing your liberty isn't really going to bother you, as you are just switching sitting in a bedsit with **** all to do and no hope, to sitting in a cell with **** all to do, and regular hot food.

I am sure the Tories are happy though; as its just like the glory days of the '80's again.

[img] [/img]

worth a thought? could be the answer.

are there no innovative, realist thinkers out there with workable ideas?

[img] [/img]

are there no innovative, realist thinkers out there with workable ideas?

In reality everybody knows that change takes time. I would say the world is a better place than 1000 years ago, our country is a better place than 100 years ago. Most of the West is better than 100 years ago, even China + India are probably better places to live than 100 years ago.

The only real answer is for the world population to start to level off and then hopefully we will start to be able to get a grip providing a reasonable standard of living for all.

You mean following the 70's when Labour screwed up the country and then followed the Winter of Discontent?

Thatcher then came in and had to make some really unpopular decisions to correct the economy for which some blame them for (rather than looking at the previous Labour party).

So its cyclic. We are in that stage where we are picking up the rampant spending tab from 12yrs of Labour AGAIN.

Richc I really do think you should start reading up at what Labour did in the 70's before you post.

Where's a superhero when you need one... (TJ excluded)

Wohoooo! That's the first time I've seen it blamed on Labour, congrats.

Brakes, what if there are no 'workable solutions'?

Perhaps rioting is part of the price we pay for liberal democracy.

Any imposed 'solutions' which fail to take human nature into account are bound to fail, if we still wish to maibtain the freedom we all take so much for granted.

We are in that stage where we are picking up the rampant spending tab from 12yrs of Labour AGAIN.

Its ALWAYS easier to blame someone else for your own short-comings

Hora - You are Awesome.

"if we do that where are we going to put them? the Prisons are full already; and what's the point of punishing people who really don't care?"

I completely agree, but at the moment I pay taxes to have them sit at home, or more recently go and smash stuff up.

Boot camp/working in the community - Get them doing stuff, cleaning parks, cleaning up graffiti, picking up rubbish, building stuff etc etc, helping with care in the community. Gives them skills, gets them out of bed in the morning, gives them purpose, gives them sense of achieveing some thing.

I'd be quite happy to keep paying them dole etc, rather than them going in prison if it benefits the community and keeps them off the streets.

what really ***** me off is that I came into work today and everyone is making jokes about it all, people are scared of having opinions so just brush off the issue with humour.
I think this is part of the problem - there is no pressure from the populous to do anything because they're scared of having opinions in case they upset someone or alienate themselves.

its a bit like trying to explain quantum physics to a chimp with learning difficulties, isn't it?

I blame the parents 😉

brakes...this sort of thing
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The Southern Yeti - I wouldn't have trusted the Iron Chancellor with a Credit card.

Bring back national service i say!

These plebs have no structure in their lives, are quite possibly in bred as i imagine a bleeding good percentage are from split families and most wont know who they could be related to. They have been produced from lobours generation of layabouts, have never been disciplined and the worst thing is that they will be reproducing again soon. The sooner they start sterilising the feral woman who produce this low level sloth the better.

As for this prick who got shot in the first place, im sorry but brandish a gun at cops and thats what happens. The only misgiving here is that the police dont do it more, the message may sink in then! ANd well done love, you excellently described your partner as a callous wimp who would run at the first sign of trouble, but like most he thought he was the big man because he had a gun!

Its about time the well to do of this country started getting these ejits when they are by themselves and giving them a good pasting, bring the army in to control them while the police turn away the cameras to keep the beating out of the public eye and show them some discipline.

As for their being no jobs, dont get me started. WHat they mean is there are no jobs that pay what i can earn by pushing some crack or coke.

The cops need to take a zero tolerance, Ray Mallon type approach or the rot will just get worse.

Rant over

Boot camp/working in the community - Get them doing stuff, cleaning parks, cleaning up graffiti, picking up rubbish, building stuff etc etc, helping with care in the community. Gives them skills, gets them out of bed in the morning, gives them purpose, gives them sense of achieveing some thing.

Didn't Kenneth Clarke recently propose just this. The Daily Wail went immediately into meltdown, Dave did his usual screaming U turn, slapped him down and informed the usual hang-em-and-flog-em brigade that it was business as usual

Until we've got politicians prepared to grow a pair and stand up to this hysterical press populism, we haven't a chance of addressing this like grown-ups. Unfortunately we've got a PR bloke at the helm. Its going to get far far worse.

Bland are you a Nazi? Because your post sure as hell makes you sound like one.

bland - you are Joseph Goebbels and I claim my £5 😀

TBH the lad who was shot was a Crack Dealer. I doubt you'd show him your bike collection and hope he or his mates didn't come back at night and rob you blind.

As for national service. I doubt it harmed anyone.

I think Nazis use better spelling and grammar

The percentage of the population that were involved in last nights trouble is vanishingly small, maybe 2000 people out of a population of over 6 million, yet people are wringing their hands about societies failings.

This is simply an organised crime similar to the activities of the larger football mobs in the 70's and 80's and should be treated as such.

It's not fair to suggest that the inner city youth are out of control as the vast majority of Londons teens were not involved in this. The only failing of the last few days is that the police and army were not brought out in force early on to nip this in the bud and arrest those involved.

TBH the lad who was shot was a Crack Dealer.

And you got that unquestioningly correct information from where exactly?

Wohoooo! That's the first time I've seen it blamed on Labour, congrats.

That's because Hora, is a moron.

Boot camp/working in the community - Get them doing stuff, cleaning parks, cleaning up graffiti, picking up rubbish, building stuff etc etc, helping with care in the community. Gives them skills, gets them out of bed in the morning, gives them purpose, gives them sense of achieveing some thing.

Sounds like a good sound bite, however why should they do this? If this doesn't lead to a job/better life? All you would be doing is setting up free labour camps populated by the poorest in the community and putting the people who currently do this work out of a job.

There is absolutely no point in punishing people who don't care, as it won't stop/prevent these events from happening next week/month/year, all it will do is use up resources, which would be better directed at addressing the root of the problem.

Boot camp/working in the community - Get them doing stuff, cleaning parks, cleaning up graffiti, picking up rubbish, building stuff etc etc, helping with care in the community. Gives them skills, gets them out of bed in the morning, gives them purpose, gives them sense of achieveing some thing.

Part of me agrees with this but the problem is that so many of the people who would be in that position are so unmotivated / unqualified that it would probably take too much effort and administration that it will cost even more and the work would still not get done. I think there is a place to say that even if you are not working that you can be contributing to the local community in a positive way rather than just sitting around hoovering up the benefits. The problem with anything like this is we usually end up talking in generalisations which doesn't really help. There are a lot of people who I'm sure are genuinely frustrated at being unemployed and for some of those there will be a percentage who have been dealt a pretty rough hand. Conversely there will also be a percentage who are thick, lazy and ignorant and who have no intention at all of doing anything other than waiting for others to pay, feed and clothe them while they do precisely nothing. And this is the most frustrating group of all and the one that probably angers most of us and leads to the stronger views on what should be done with them.

In China at the moment and just picked all this up on the interweb.

Embaressing ...... very very embaressing.

That is all.

binners - Member
[b]TBH the lad who was shot was a Crack Dealer.[/b]
[i]And you got that unquestioningly correct information from where exactly?[/i]

Wohoooo! That's the first time I've seen it blamed on Labour,

Here you go. Heres what building a growing economy on credit and public spending did

http://www.debtbombshell.com/

Ur speeling iz embaressing.

So Hora you disagree with the fundamental principles of Macro economics then?

It was quite interesting watching the Louis Theroux programme on Boot Camp in the states where some very serious criminal kids were offered Boot Camp or long term imprisonment.

Most took the Boot Camp route, but it didnt work for all, however they never actually mentioned %'s Maybe some folk are just too far gone and the best place for them is prison, however to be all PC they 'deserve their Human Rights' to try....

A system with Boot Camp could work. Those prepared to graft would get opportunbities, the dross would just get sent to some prison for the rest of their sorry lives.

binners - Member
TBH the lad who was shot was a Crack Dealer.
And you got that unquestioningly correct information from where exactly?

No your right. He was a fine upstanding citizen who just happened to carry a handgun.

Just when you thought you'd seen it all, looters in Ponders End Tesco's were seen carrying their booty into the mosque 20 metres away. This is NOT hear say, it's come from a first hand witness..

Clearly a very worrying development, are we facing the prospect of police raids and the inevitable backlash from Islamist mobs, or will the Old Bill turn a blind eye in the name of community relations?

"TBH the lad who was shot was a Crack Dealer."
And you got that unquestioningly correct information from where exactly?

Obvious, he must have bought Crack off him.

This is NOT hear say, it's come from a first hand witness

Pish - thats hearsay.

enfht - Member
Just when you thought you'd seen it all, looters in Ponders End Tesco's were seen carrying their booty into the mosque 20 metres away. [b]This is NOT hear say, it's come from a first hand witness.[/b]

😆

Just when you thought you'd seen it all, looters in Ponders End Tesco's were seen carrying their booty into the mosque 20 metres away. This is NOT hear say, it's come from a first hand witness..

Those were charitable gifts for when they break fast tonight

Its Tescos' so ok.

See what you mean mf. I'm getting that feeling of Deja Vu

Do you believe everything the police and press spoon-feed you jellyhead? The police said he was a crack dealer waving a gun around so that must be true. Same as Charles de Menezes was a suicide bomber

When I see some evidence to support this, then I'll believe it 🙄

I feel for all those that have lost their possessions and homes to these riots. There are many people affected that will continue to suffer long after this is over.

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Get some of these in effective positions with some skilled operators. They'll soon drop their stolen LED TVs.

"When I see some evidence to support this, then I'll believe it"

When I see evidence to disprove this, then I'll beleive it.

Cameron condemns it all. Feels sympathy. Stepping up the police presence. Marshal law on its way you reckon? (not the Tekken character).

Just when you thought you'd seen it all, looters in Ponders End Tesco's were seen carrying their booty into the mosque 20 metres away. This is NOT hear say, it's come from a first hand witness..

Shakes head in disbelief. Your Club Card points, you're not going to get any Club Card points if you do that FFS.

Cameron condemns it all. Feels sympathy. Stepping up the police presence. Marshal law on its way you reckon? (not the Tekken character).

Pffft, Kuma and Roger would soon sort this stuff out!

Deny all you like

My collegue's husband went to visit his Dad in Ponders End last night and saw it all.

And he's non-white so it must be true, no axe to grind 🙄

6,000 coppers out last night, 16,000 tonight, lets see what happens!

derek_starship stop it. They need caring, love, a cuddle, youth clubs, holidays away with mentors and increased money allowances.

enfht - Member

Deny all you like

My collegue's husband went to visit his Dad in Ponders End last night and saw it all.

hearsay then.

enfht - Member
Deny all you like

My collegue's husband went to visit his Dad in Ponders End last night and saw it all.

And he's non-white so it must be true, no axe to grind

So you got it second hand from a first hand witness? Brilliant!

so it must be true, no axe to grind

Good job he's not a lumberjack then... he'd really have something to moan about.

enfht - Member
Deny all you like

My collegue's husband went to visit his Dad in Ponders End last night and saw it all.

And he's non-white so it must be true, no axe to grind

Yes but you can't say that. Its unfair. Just like saying alot of sex-grooming paedophile gangs just happen to be Asian males.

Its not on. Keep quiet.

I blame hollywood!

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😉

You lot just wait till Fred gets out of bed, he'll have the lot of you - make no mistake

TJ I can certainly understand why you don't want to believe it happened

My collegue chuckled when I suggested the conversation she'd had with her husband (the witness) was just hearsay. 😆

Time to roll out the................
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Even for stw this thread just keeps on giving.

Kneejerking away like a good 'un. Nice line in racist slurs, nice line in ignorant cant.

We have had
Blame it on labour,
Bring back national serive,
Send in the army
I blame the immigrants
Send 'em back home
I blame the muslims
Feral women breeding
Sterilise them

and virtually the whole range of reactionary crap. Any I have missed?

Yeah, I'd like to see the IRA FSU in London again!

enfit - its hearsay - someone saw it told someone else who told you - that's the definition of hearsay 🙄

No your right. He was a fine upstanding citizen who just happened to carry a handgun.

Last time I checked, we didn't have the death penalty for such an offence.

Any I have missed?

Nobody understands them
They've been forced into this situation

You missed the 'I made something of my life despite being brought up by wolves, living in a shoebox, with nowt but iron filings to eat' TJ

Any I have missed?

Yes.

Your own " range of reactionary crap", TJ.

Where's your evidence TJ? 8)

Yeah you've also missed "Blame the Tories"

TJ its not their fault.

They just need jobs, understanding and opportunities, scroll down to a pic. Maybe you could offer them lodgings on your road TJ? It wouldn't harm your property value and you'd welcome the opportunity for them to better themselves? Same for you binners. Maybe if the disadvantage boys moved into your area you could help them? :

http://www.streetgangs.com/billboard/viewtopic.php?f=281&t=43617&start=0

I guess watching the news is hearsay then, better turn the telly off 😆

Keep digging TJ you might strike gold

enfht - Member
Where's your evidence TJ?

Evidence of what?

and virtually the whole range of reactionary crap. Any I have missed?

Yep, the Kray twins not being there when you need them.
(Londons answer to King Arthur and the knights of the round table)

1123: BBC Monitoring A Libyan TV presenter who claims he can talk to spirits and mobilize them in support of Colonel Gaddafi, says Libya was "proud" of the rioters in England. Speaking in English on state-run Al-Jamahiriyah TV, Yusuf Shakir said people in Libya would hold a demonstration to show their solidarity. "We support you black power in Tottenham," he said

Great stuff, even nutters from other countries are trying to turn this into a racial thing!!

Just listening to the radio and apparently a rioter was observed tipping a bottle of beer across a street from one side to the other and tried lighting it. Genius. 😀

from nick clegg before the general election..........
[url= http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/15599056 ]http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/15599056[/url]

The Liberal Democrat leader said he feared "serious social strife" if an administration with minimal support raised taxes, laid off public sector workers and froze wages.

Any I have missed?