[Closed] Tottenham Riots

Ben - did I say anything different?

Sticking my neck out for a flaming here, but it seems the 'untouchable' status they aquired in school has fully encompassed their lives.

Nail on the head!

bring back the belt ! (and im not even old enough to remember it ! )

I can, well the cane that is.

Yeah it's a complex situation and all that guff. However I still say send the army in and deploy sleeping gas, put the rioters/looters in planes and drop them off in Afghanistan on IED clearance duty.

Mcboo - We live in a capitalist state so its open competition for jobs. So as a person you have direct ability to "reap what we sow"

I know it is harder for some than others, but every one in the UK has opportunity, its just some are not prepared to take that opportunity.

I'm with BenHouldsworth on this one. Control them first and then look at the problems behind it. These kids have no respect for anything so treating them like animals IMO is ok.

Sticking my neck out for a flaming here, but it seems the 'untouchable' status they aquired in school has fully encompassed their lives.

They went to Eton?

It means they have to try harder at school, develop better interview skills, buy a smart shirt and shoes instead of x box games m, MTFU and be grateful to live in a country that people will travel all the way fro Eastern Europe to work in

It means they have to try harder at school, develop better interview skills, buy a smart shirt and shoes instead of x box games m, MTFU and be grateful to live in a country that people will travel all the way fro Eastern Europe to work in

Comedy gold

Yep, just dismiss it as comedy, Dave, but the point is valid. There's a generation who seem to believe that not only are they untouchable, but also that the state, nay the world, owes them a living. Bleating on about "I got my rights, innit?" is all well and good, but with rights come responsibilities.

Half the cabinet were members of the bullingdon club, that's the example of behaving like a mindless yob and where it gets you in society. people with every advantage in life and they still behave the same way, only they are rich enough to bully there way out of the consequences.

What TJ, Fred and Ernie said.

The rest of you who are agreeing with Hora, I suggest you have a little think about that for a while. YOU'RE AGREEING WITH HORA!!

Have a think about what it is actually like to be a 16 year old school leaver in the inner city right now. What prospects you actually have? What choices? The answer is pretty resolutely 'none' on both counts.

Add to this the fact that you are now demonised by the press, the police and the government, and the alienation is pretty much complete. Why on earth do you seriously expect them to then adhere to the social norms of a society which offers them absolutely nothing in return.

MSP, please show me an example of the Bullingdon club putting families out of their homes. Or perhaps burning down a family business that has run for five generations. Or perhaps systematically looting a branch of Currys, etc, etc, etc.

Yep, just dismiss it as comedy, Dave, but the point is valid. There's a generation who seem to believe that not only are they untouchable, but also that the state, nay the world, owes them a living. Bleating on about "I got my rights, innit?" is all well and good, but with rights come responsibilities.

How's the view up there in your ivory tower?

MSP, please show me an example of the Bullingdon club putting families out of their homes.

Oh the ironing....

'untouchable' or they simply don't give a flying ****?

Lads that don't see prison as bad compared to what they've got?

It's not like they're sitting in palatial homes fretting over what coffee machines to buy is it? They've got sod all, if they get away with it they've gained... if they don't... what matters?

iDave, I'm deadly serious; there are kids who walk ten miles before school for a bucket of dirty water then work the land when they get home, this country is a wonderful place, people need to realise that

this country is a wonderful place

It's more wonderful for some, than it is for others...

Why on earth do you seriously expect them to then adhere to the social norms of a society which offers them absolutely nothing in return.

Sorry what?
Society only offers you something if you do stick to the 'social norms'. You can't take from it until you agree to do some giving.

I agree with a lot of TJ's words, but you'll never get it through or make any of it work unless you change how we change people.
Widespread policies set out to help and improve rarely work. Of course I'm only talking from my own limited experiences in life, but what does work is when you concentrate those ideas and direct them at individuals.
No matter how good your intentions preaching doesn't work, but take someone to one side and you can change them.
Just my opinion.

Means and IQ testing - if you fail you're immediately sterilised for the benefit of others

This is actually the methods of fascism. Not in the whiny student politics 'I disagree so I'll call you a fascist' way. As in the actual definition of fascism.

So your saying Sweden is a fascist state?

@mrmo - I don't need to do any reading about Sweden, thanks. I already know about their policy, and it's not relevant to the point I made.

Sterilisation of the poor and those with low IQs is, as I said, one of fascism's methods. Whether anyone else does, and the separate debate that could be had about that, it is not relevant.

I know sometimes the thought that springs into a person's head when they read something can be exciting, and people want to run away with it. This might be because point in issue and the point one comes up with are in some way linked in one's mind.

For example, I could try to run away with my thoughts on rollmop herrings, but it wouldn't be relevant. All I need to do to stop this is read what has been posted, and respond to it, instead of responding to what I think has been said.

I'm not sure if your question

So your saying Sweden is a fascist state?

evidently not

The other reason people ask "So you're saying..?" questions is so they can remould the original statement into something they can then attack. Putting words into a person's mouth, then to attack them for those words. People do this unconsciously. Sometimes argument can be emotional, or irrational, and people lose sight of logic without even realising it. The desire to prevail clouds judgment, and things are misread.

I'm thinking about all those people who have had their jobs shot to hell and others who've lost their homes and all their possessions from being burned out under their feet.

So naturally, I'm all concerned about the looter's "rights"...

Army now. Curfew tonight. If you're on the street after 9, you'll be detained. If you resist you'll be shot. End of.

Binners. How can a Pole with no recognised English qualifications, English as a second language come here and find work? Poles who come here aren't Doctors at home, a great deal are working class looking for a better life and travelling to where there are opportunities not present at home.

A better life.

London isn't a small village like up here. There are thousands of opportunities- you need a work ethic though.

Sick of well-meaning handwringing and liberal Guardianism. Tough love is needed not apologists.

These are the feral offspring of 5th generation welfare state feral families.

3 years National Service for anyone caught rioting, looting, etc. Try to give them the self respect that their parents have ensured they'd never have.

A mate of mine drove through Camden last night and he experienced an attempted carjacking by a couple of c#nts in hoods and scarfs. His doors were locked though. He said he both s****ed and shat it.

I think i'd cry if i found myself in that situation. A proper cry. Not like a concerned whimper, a real wide-eyed-open-mouth-chin-quivering WAAAAAAAH!!! The kind where a tightrope of mucusy spittle extends from top to bottom lip (or vice versa). Thats what i reckon anyway.

Hora blood, the wey u iz talkin me finks you finks inglish iz da 1st langwidge of dees bruthas

santacoops I'd have got out with my keyboard and given them a right kicking

eeezy geeza, find some gal to trow she down and make peace* guy?

*Technically this would involve a few lads holding down a girl who isn't technically willing but thats alright as gang culture means 'shes up for it'. 😐

Employers would rather opt for the easier and cheaper alternative of offering jobs to fully trained Poles or Lithuanians, than to give British school-leavers any hope of learning a trade.

Bollox - its because most of them don't turn up, they don't work hard if they do and they complain about being paid a small wage. On the otherhand the eastern Europeans, some having come from some really grim living situations, are here to carve a better life for themselves, work hard giving more than they need to, are punctual, polite and have some pride in what might be a menial task. I'd employ them over many of our youth.

What a bunch of middle class whiney cock bags we all are this morning. How about instead of being keyboard warriors you all go out and do something about it? Local policits is a starting point or give up some of your time to help these communities?

Alternatively, continue to jog along thinking it's OK to rant and rave because it'll all blow over...

Binners. How can a Pole with no recognised English qualifications, English as a second language come here and find work?

Because they often work for below minimum wage, can only afford rent etc because they live with loads of people sharing rooms, which they don't mind because they don't plan to do it forever. I wouldn't want to try and compete with that.

I am doing something about it bigG, i am working.

I am also a middle class cockbag. Many thanks.

I think people should stop trying to pigeon this down to a class/sub class thing.

I bet its a mixture of backgrounds and wealth.. however what they all do have in common is that they are from the "Parents do not give a Sh!t" class.

the way this thread is going, I'm shocked that some people aren't looting the classifieds

I'm sure all the people on here who are explaining away the events of the last three days would feel very differently if it was your house or business that was burnt down or looted 🙄

Because they often work for below minimum wage, can only afford rent etc because they live with loads of people sharing rooms, which they don't mind because they don't plan to do it forever. I wouldn't want to try and compete with that.

Just like the Indians/bangladeshi's did before. These people knew real poverty/hardship and wanted better. Work ethic. Crock of **** when people try to explain ungrateful disaffected idiots.

Whereas when I first moved to London I lived in a overpriced tiny bedsit not a relatively spacial council provided flat or home for peanuts.

I didn't complain, I got on with it.

The Telegraph ran an excellent live feed last night. Difficult to sum things up in one line but I think the quote below does a pretty good job of clearing up the mentality / intellect of those rioting last night

04.50 "We are getting our taxes back."
That's what one looter in Clapham Junction told Sky's Mark Stone, who shot this film while confronting people raiding a Currry's Digital. The local branch of Waterstone's had not been looted, he noted.

I'm sure all the people on here who are explaining away the events of the last three days would feel very differently if it was your house or business that was burnt down or looted

I think i've expressed quite accurately exactly how i would feel.

I am also working and i'm also a middle class cockbag 🙄

Shows the mentality of those involved, it's so sad to see.

I'm sure all the people on here who are explaining away the events of the last three days would feel very differently if it was your house or business that was burnt down or looted

Aye I said this earlier. Its different when your sat safely away telling people these looters need a cuddle, a chat and some more free money.

I am also working and i'm also a middle class cockbag

We should do lunch!

How is life on the frontline Hora? 🙄

equally binners, are you on the front line?

I'm sure all the people on here who are explaining away the events of the last three days would feel very differently if it was your house or business that was burnt down or looted

maybe as they lose there jobs over the next couple of years, see youth services cut, and no employment opportunities for their kids as they leave school. Some of them may commit suicide at the prospect at being unable to provide for their families, some of them might turn to crime to fill the financial gap, and maybe some of them faced with no future and no hope will start to riot themselves.

I'm no longer on the frontline. My childhood was the frontline. I buried the transgressor in December 2010. Growing up in bedsits from the age of 16 showed me the scum of life but then I met some great people including a mate (now a neighbour to Lisas parents) who had just been released from prison for assault charges.

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/riots-caused-by-society-or-lazy%2c-thieving-pricks%2c-say-experts-201108094174/ ]Sociologists said the devastation across the capital was the direct result of either social exclusion and government cutbacks or some young, inner-city pricks finding a flimsy excuse to set fire to Carpetright.[/url]

These kids have no respect for anything so treating them like animals IMO is ok.

If you believe you have nothing to lose (from everyday life) then you're more likely to not give a shit about things. i.e you have no fear of the consequences. And we all know how useless the justice system is, so it's just going to continue full circle.

Aye I said this earlier. Its different when your sat safely away telling people these looters need a cuddle, a chat and some more free money.

Also different sat on your computer judging people who's lives you have no idea about.

Fact is things like youth centres are proven to reduce crime and anti social behaviour. Were currently cutting them left right and centre.

So you're saying that in your situation you met some decent people and some scum? Yet what you're now saying is 'they're all scum'

So what changed in the intervening years?

I do know one thing. If this is dealt with as just a police matter. Crack down on them, shoot them and other such gibberish suggested here, and yet the underlying inequalities in our society aren't addressed, then it won't be long til we're back here again

What a bunch of middle class whiney cock bags we all are this morning. How about instead of being keyboard warriors you all go out and do something about it?

Yep, and I worked bloody hard to get to this point, so i feel justified - paper rounds, milk rounds, washing pots, golf caddy, shop work on a Saturday, preparing airline food trays, I've done a lot of things instead of sitting on my arse with my hand out. There are always jobs if you look, you just need the right attitude

Things need to be nipped in the bud now, otherwise this could go on for days!! Yes we need to talk, re build the bridges and look at the problems that started this but it needs to end now.

Army in? Maybe. Look at changing sentences for crimes? Yes. Put some fear into ALL. If you do wrong, expect a bit of pain back.

You see it on "police camera action" type shows. Bloke drives a car through a shopping centre running over people and crashing into things, gets 6 points and is banned from driving for 12 months. Then they tell you he has no licence, no tax and no insurance. Will is stop him doing it again next week? Will it hell. Theres nothing there to put the fear of god in him.

Look at harsh punishments. Reward hard work.

And as for Poles being hard workers, they make you think it but they are as lazy as the rest. We had 3 at work. Used to say they were working all hours. Put up some cameras and you could catch them all doing nothing and calling it over time. They were out quick smart. People from every walk of life want an easy ride, its just that the current generation think its their right to have everything now, handed to them on a silver platter.

Nothing like a bit of STW pontification about that which we do not wish to understand.

Look, clearly looting, arson and rioting are wrong, and the perpetrators deserve punishment. But it didn't just happen for no reason. Shaking your head and muttering about crackdowns is just a sticking plaster that will achieve nothing in the longer term.

I thought this comment was interesting:

There's a generation who seem to believe that not only are they untouchable, but also that the state, nay the world, owes them a living.

I agree. Many of them are running our country.

M6TTF... What did your parents do though?

I've a similar CV it would appear... my parents were teachers.

"I do know one thing. If this is dealt with as just a police matter. Crack down on them, shoot them and other such gibberish suggested here, and yet the underlying inequalities in our society aren't addressed, then it won't be long til we're back here again"

I completely agree with the underlying cause needs to be addressed, but the fact is people are running around UK streets damaging the community, luckily as yet no one has been seriously injured or killed.

The people rioting have no respect for anything, or they wouldnt be doing it. They have been asked by the Police to return home, and the Police have asked their parents to help do that.

As yet they continue. So if they will not respect the Police, their parents, the rest of Society, and continue to break the law, then IMO is is quite resonalble to use force to stop them... it is obviously the only thing they do respect!

Play ethnicky jazz
To parade your snazz
On your five grand stereo
Braggin' that you know
How the ****s feel cold
And the slums got so much soul

It's time to taste what you most fear
Right Guard will not help you here
Brace yourself, my dear:

......

You're a star-belly sneech
You suck like a leach
You want everyone to act like you
Kiss ass while you bitch
So you can get rich
But your boss gets richer off you

Let's not bring the good people of Nigg into this...

I visited Nigg on a recent trip to Scotland. The locals were friendly and not a looter in sight.

Haha quoting DK at us j_me? They hate neocons like you even more than hippies. Dear me you aren't very good at this are you?

Anyone invoked Godwins Law yet?

The old man worked in a bank computer centre, mum worked in a hardware shop. We were taught that if you want something you earn it. Funnily enough it works. If you start working at a young age you soon learn the simple skills that you carry throughout your working life.

Ahh, so you also had hardworking parents who felt part of society... I see.

I don't deny that, and I can see why the kids whose parents have sat on their arse all their life see it as the norm, they don't know any different. Changing the handouts system is a start, I know it's not that simple, but something's got to be done

Has anyone in London (or elsewhere) been experiencing this? Just how bad is it?

I was living in Paris at the time of the riots there in 2005 - riots which started out in the suburbs of Paris then quickly spread elsewhere in the city and then around the country - hundreds of cars getting torched every night, mass rioting/looting and thousands of arrests. Quite shocking scenes on the TV every night. However i didnt actually see any of this personally, only thing noticeable was a few more vans of CRS sitting on the side streets.

So it was a bad situation which ended up looking much worse due to the rolling news coverage with looping videos (etc) which sensationalised it - the coverage made what was a bad situation look like the whole country was on the verge of descending into total lawlessness with complete civil breakdown.

Cobra are praying for rain tonight.

Yep, and I worked bloody hard to get to this point, so i feel justified - paper rounds, milk rounds, washing pots, golf caddy, shop work on a Saturday, preparing airline food trays, I've done a lot of things instead of sitting on my arse with my hand out. There are always jobs if you look, you just need the right attitude

Cobra should flood the area with high grade skunk.

Or maybe some E's of a quality not seen since the early 90's.

Changing the handouts system is a start

Like how? Oh, I know.... like ending the Education Maintenance Allowance? So that a 16 year old whose parents don't give a ****, might actaually stand a chance of going to college? That seems like a perfect place to start.

I'll tell you what handouts mean to me? Georg Osbornes present proposal to reduce tax on those earning over £150,000 a tear. THAT is a handout!

And, for the record, my CV reads pretty much the same as yours

England game called off

Likewise M6TTF, but single teenage unmarried mum in 1959. Father unknown. She fought to keep me rather than face forced adoption in Oz. No home provided. Went to school where I was officialy reffered to as a bastard etc etc, but then I did learn to walk and feed myself and learnt how to use a toilet and it sort of went on from there.

preparing airline food trays

Now your talking shit jobs, I lasted one day at that before going back to flying clay pigeons when rich men shout PULL!, £1.50 an hour and 20 free shot gun shells (had to used on site though)

I'll tell you what handouts mean to me? Georg Osbornes present proposal to reduce tax on those earning over £150,000 a tear. THAT is a handout!

yep he can **** that right off

what needs culling is the lets have a couple kids - get free housing and live off the state free attitude.

the old nightclub chat up line "wanna go hauwfers on a cooncil hoose? " springs to mind

My local arms dealer has 5 water cannon dieseled up and ready to go

[url= http://www.evems.com/evems/Appliances_list.php?a=search&value=1&SearchFor=airport&SearchOption=Contains&SearchField=Type ]Rocket Site[/url]

Said it before and I will say it again, all of the crap we deal with on a day to day basis, is a result of poor leadership and an inability to manage resources.

Assholes in charge, shit is gonna happen!

"So it was a bad situation which ended up looking much worse due to the rolling news coverage with looping videos (etc) which sensationalised it - the coverage made what was a bad situation look like the whole country was on the verge of descending into total lawlessness with complete civil breakdown."

My wife spoke to a friend last night who lives in Lewisham. She was scared and frightened as she could see kids burning cars etc on the street next to hers...

just heard a copper admit that their hands are tied because everyones got a video camera and they can't beat up on everyone in the street whether they are roiting or not.

England game called off

father was a labourer for a builder

mother worked processing chickens

that taught me that YOU CAN BETTER YOUR SELF no matter what - my dad left school with a handful of o-levels - left school and trained to be a butcher . sacked that after 6 months and went onto building sites as a labourer - after a few years of that trained as a digger driver.

after busting his balls for 10 years learning about other aspects of the building trade he has a fairly successful building and property developement business.

i started working age 12 - paper round , age 15 bikeshop. while at uni id work friday night 7-2am in pub saturday 9am-5 in bike shop and 7-2am at the pub

if your on the dole what message does that send to your kids ? this is what you can aspire to be - its all ive managed so its all youll be !

I'm not sure which excuse appalls me most:
a. They feel they've got nothing to loose
or
b. They think they're untouchable

I would not have thought it unreasonable to clearly demonstrate to them that both were fallacies.

http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23riotcleanup

*Applauds*

Single parent family here. Never given anything.

My Mother still taught me values though. If your mother is thick, loose/slag and wanna get jiggy wid all da guys then 10yrs later they say 'aw my san fell in wit da wrong crowd innit didnt know where he was in the evenings cos I didn't care then/streets could bring him up as I couldnt be bothered' and blame the Police (for chasing them for doing wrong), the Teachers (for trying to avoid being assualted) and society (for saying WTF can't you take responsibility for contraception, your life and for investing time in the product of your liason?).

Its ALWAYS easier to blame someone else for your own short-comings.

I can't believe, given some of the twisted, neo-fascist rhetoric already being expressed, that I'm the first to suggest this, but, well.....

[img] [/img]

Single parent family here. Never given anything.

What? Not even the cardboard box you used to sleep in?