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Whilst I am against bringing in a tax reduction of that nature at the moment I think it's fair to say the 'rich' are currently paying more inheritance tax than is usual so taking away some of the tax just puts them into the same situation as most of us. Of course is the beneficiaries of these dead people that benefit and they might not be so rich.
IMO inheritance tax should be based on the recipient so that if one person inherits the lot then much tax is paid but if it's spread about then less is paid - kinda like capital gains tax or income tax.
Now Junkyard that is just bad grammar!
The tory policy on inheritance tax is going to benefit the rich only - and disproportionately so.
So one of a couple in an average priced London house dies, then a few years later the remaining person dies, they were rich?
350,000 isn't that much money, at least in the south. Certainly not "rich".
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>350,000 isn't that much money, at least in the south. Certainly not "rich".
Apparently it is.
350,000 isn't that much money, at least in the south. Certainly not "rich".
it doesn't matter, once you're dead you don't need it. Inheritance fosters privilege, so it might be better to raise the tax to 100% for everyone.
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Please, don't do it............
it doesn't matter, once you're dead you don't need it. Inheritance fosters privilege, so it might be better to raise the tax to 100% for everyone.
Fine, it's an interesting policy. What do you do with private companies, small shops for example? Sell them off?
tiger_roach - Member
Now Junkyard that is just bad grammar!
😆
What is ****ed, is society. Increased fear and paranoia, increasing mistrust and xenophobia, an increased need to blame 'someone else' for life's ills. People no longer know or speak to their neighbours, chat to each other on the bus/train, have each others' kids in and out of the house playing, help out someone when they're in a bad place. Increased selfishness, greed, and the MeMeMe culture.
Blimey, I'm agreeing with Fred.
CallmeDave is not going to be another Thatcher.
Can't be bothered coffeeking - you are worse than me for being dogmatic. Like yesterday when you insisted an antihistamine was a muscle relaxant when it is not.
I didn't though, I just explained that's the effect it had overall (syndol) rather than a specific ingredient, regardless of it not being the drugs MO. In fact I even went as far as explaining that in simple terms, but you still didn't want to listen, so I gave up caring, safe in the knowledge that although the technical details were incorrect the overall result was correct as prescribed and as experienced. I'm happy that you have more drug knowledge than I do, and willing to admit that my technical knowledge of them was incorrect in this case, but it doesn't negate the effect which was what the OP was looking for.
it doesn't matter, once you're dead you don't need it. Inheritance fosters privilege,
It shouldn't though, if other structures were no easily worked around by cash - maybe that's where the effort should be aimed at correction, rather than people wishing to pass on security and housing to their family.
, all the conservative ones have a picture of the candidate as well and boy are there some ugly munters
Our Lib DeM candidate is called Tessa Munt so if I vote for her will I be a Munter?
Buzz ,Heathcoat Amoral is hopeless I have mailed him more than once to try and push the Cheddar to Wells cycle path forwards and I get a stock I support this idea response .I want him to try and get it built using his position to help cycling and tourism in this area by getting off his ass and going to county hall and saying what do you need can I help?
Blimey, I'm agreeing with Fred.
Careful! 😆
You'd better have a little lie-down...
when will people learn that it does not matter a fig, tory - labour - liberal, it will not make a hapeth of difference to you or me who is in number 10.
except the fact that there is them and there is us!
they have money, power and infuluence. we have to hope that they use it for the best result for all of us. they will still have money, power and influence.
we have a vote, but under the system we use to reach a winner it aint worth much depending where you live in our green and plesant land
until we....they on our behalf, change the voting system it doent matter who is in power.
so maybe....just maybe the liberals are the way ahead?? even if they wouldnt recognise a sensible policy if it bite them on the nose.
Blimey, I'm agreeing with Fred.
Ditto, and...
Careful!You'd better have a little lie-down...
Ditto.
I hold my hand up, you're speaking some sense for a change!
What is ****ed, is society. Increased fear and paranoia, increasing mistrust and xenophobia, an increased need to blame 'someone else' for life's ills. People no longer know or speak to their neighbours, chat to each other on the bus/train, have each others' kids in and out of the house playing, help out someone when they're in a bad place. Increased selfishness, greed, and the MeMeMe culture.
Maybe it's just you that people don't speak to or look out for 😉
I find this a pretty glib view of the world and it certainly doesn't reflect the one that I live in. I talk to all of the neighbours that I actually like. Our kids always played at the other kids houses and we still have the sulky teenage friends around now. The bus driver helps people on and on to the bus and even stops at your house if you ask him. No one is scared, no one is paranoid and most people have always been xenophobic, so no change there.
As for blame, I don't see that blaming govt or society as being any different to blaming individuals. No one/thing needs to be blamed, everyone just needs to accept their own responsibility for not acting anti socially and resultingly, making the world a better place.
I'm with you Edric64. Heathcote-Amoral's gardening expenses would have paid for that cycle track. Time for a change - gonna vote for "The Munter" too.
I find this a pretty glib view of the world and it certainly doesn't reflect the one that I live in
I've got to go and see my psychologist now, but I'll deal with you on my return.
Where's my coffee?
but I'll deal with you on my return.
if allowed out ?
Coffeeking - but you see you are dogmatically insisting black is white still. On the drugs you simply are wrong. Factually incorrect. It makes it pointless debating with you.
Coffeeking - but you see you are dogmatically insisting black is white still. On the drugs you simply are wrong. Factually incorrect. It makes it pointless debating with you.
No, you're pedantically picking your argument. I'm not "incorrect" as I *agreed* that that is not the way the specific drug works, this was never in question so your insisting black=white is simply wrong. I simply said it is the effect it has when taken wrapped with the other drugs, pain killers and sedatives = better sleep and relaxation with painkilling which tends to relax your muscles overnight. I never said "the antihistamine works as a muscle relaxant", if I had you'd be right to argue. I said it's the effect the whole drug has. You're (as usual) focusing on the tiny detail and not looking at the bigger picture which was how to stop the guys back ache. Your call, I prefer to give the advice based on experience rather than argue the tech details of how it works.
Anyway, back on topic!...
"inheritance tax is only paid by the richest 3% of people"
Tj, i agree that we shouldn't give execcsive cuts to the richest few in favour of benefitting lower-earners who really need the break, but i think IH tax on homes is wrong whoever it affects.
why should my kids one day pay tax on something i hope to give to them, something i have bought and paid for out of taxed income? it's robbery, simply dual-taxing.
and that 'richest 3%' stat, is that correct? many homes bought a decade or more ago now by fairly normal earners are now worth over the threshold of £320k +. those people who own them may have retired from £30-40k a year jobs, is that really the richest 3%?
"Inheritance fosters privilege"
oh c'mon, that's almost commie speak 🙂 is ownership theft? not necessarily. social injustice and cultural bias foster priviledge, by protecting access for the few and all but excluding many. inheritance is about ownership and family, it can help keep families together in some areas where younge people now can't afford housing. tax won't disrupt this too much, but it's still a dual tax. i may want to pass on within my family an heirloom or a house, if i own them both it's my call surely?
coffeeking - MemberSyndol (pain killer and muscle relaxant,
Simply factually wrong.
No matter how you twist it you are worse than me for being dogmatic and refusing to accept the slightest fault - as on this thread where it is quite clear you do not understand the issues of how the tax works
Still - be happy in your own little made up world where black is white
James o - rad the link I gave above - only the 3 % off estates pay the inheritance tax - the richest 3%. a couple gets £700 000
That £325,000 is transferable between couples, [b]even if they die in different years,[/b] so in practice a husband and wife would actually have a combined threshold of £650,000.
It's a tax on tax for richer dead people; not sure if that's fair but that's what it is.
Inheritance tax factcheck;-
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/vote_2010/factcheck+inheritance+tax++who+will+benefit/3634517
edit: same as TJ (ish)
ah, ok corrected, i just read the threshold and didn't know it was per person. fair point on the 3% then - but even then i think it's unfair to be dual taxed in this way.
"What is ****ed, is society. Increased fear and paranoia, increasing mistrust and xenophobia, an increased need to blame 'someone else' for life's ills. People no longer know or speak to their neighbours, chat to each other on the bus/train, have each others' kids in and out of the house playing, help out someone when they're in a bad place. Increased selfishness, greed, and the MeMeMe culture."
that's a common, generalised media portrayal of the uk, but not one that i recognise. and i'm sure my gran used to say the same thing about life about 15 years ago, once she stopped going out in a nice neighbourhood (due to age) and started reading the papers / watching tv a lot more. the media like to make us worry about things, i dunno what they have against a positive, happy society but they seem to like telling us that we're all doomed... it's a crock.
it ain't all great out there, but our perception of our world is a choice we can make that reflects back on how we interact with people, kind of self-fulfilling really.
many taxes are you so called dual taxes I pay tax on my income why should I then pay tax on the things I buy? What about income tax on interest from savings do all of these double taxes annoy you? What about capital gains tax - we could always apply that to houses instead would that make you feel better? Would that be afairer as the do seem to have gained a fair amount from the capital
TJ - you're quoting my first post as if it were my only post, we both know it wasn't and that I immediately agreed that the drug didn't contain a specific muscle relaxant but had that effect overall and that was the purpose for which it was prescribed and worked. But you choose to ignore those posts in order to somehow dis-credit my comments. If that's how you choose to work then fine, but you should be working as a tabloid journo as you're pretty good at it.
WRT the tax system, I understand how it works perfectly thanks.
Go and reread the thread - you continually insisted it acted as a muscle relaxant and refused to acknowledge you were wrong - and you clearly don't understand the inheritance tax from your answers on here.
For example it is transferable between couples.
ok fair comparisons so i'm showing some ignorance on tax in general here! VAT, capital gains, i understand why the economy needs these things. dual tax is the wrong way of expressing what i was clear about - that i think passing a home on to children shouldn't be taxable. if that is then thought to be about fostering priviledge, surely our society is too meritocratic now for that to allow a new generation of rotshchilds to develop?
homes are a more personal thing than most instances of capital gains, so i still think it's not quite right, but if as tj pointed out it's a small number affected and there's plenty of ways around it.
Go and reread the thread - you continually insisted it acted as a muscle relaxant and refused to acknowledge you were wrong - and you clearly don't understand the inheritance tax from your answers on here.
I'm sorry, what?...
coffeeking - So while they may not specifically be muscle relaxants, that is the effect they have.
Errrr re-read it yourself.
For example it is transferable between couples.
I never argued this? WTF? Are you drinking today? If you're going to be pedantic about things you need to at least be right.
If you're going to be pedantic about things you need to at least be right.
To be fair he rarely needs to be right to argue /be pedantic 😉
Not followed your private thread so no idea on this but you do remind me of my two boys squabbling at bath time 😆
😆 Thanks guys!
I'll study this thread in more detail
Not followed your private thread so no idea on this but you do remind me of my two boys squabbling at bath time
Indeed, I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong but I am stubborn when someone tells me I've said something that I haven't. Time out, can't be arsed any more, stuff to do.
Inheritance tax/dual tax
Trouble is it's a tax on doing nothing more than living a life then dying. It used to be for the rich now it's the top 3% apparently - well maybe they're still rich people but there's more now?
I mentioned up there somewhere that I think inheritance tax would be better as one on the recipient rather than the dead person, (same as CGT maybe) so that it might get spread around a bit more.
always felt that most people old enough to vote remember the tory 80's, where greed was encouraged and social responsibility was forgotten, a lot of people did well out of the tories at the time (like my dad for example) and labour were the angry face of the working classes, being laughed at by rich, successful people. with the fall of the berlin wall and the subsequent collapse of communism in the west, Labours socialist values became redundant and seemed old fashioned, capitalism became the new way and everyone regardless of background was told that they could achieve dizzy new heights in only they worked hard and were willing to gamble. The lib dems were irrelevant.
in the early 90's the world economy had taken a slump. War in Iraq had opened peoples eyes to the idea that maybe the "conventional" governments did not control the world as much as they would have liked, and that we all had to bow at the table of oil barons etc. people who chased convservtive dreams were now starting to fail and society was again starting to falter in much the same way it had in the late 70's, where by the poor were locked in a cycle of poorness and the middle classes could not advance further up their imagined league tables. The rich remained rich (mostly). War in former yugoslavia is too close to home for some and reminds us all that actually we are not a super developed society and are as faliable as anywhere else. IRA step up then effectivley step back, making sure everyone in UK knows what COULD happen, but hopefully wont.
1997, new labour, Young Leader, strong catch phrases, seems to fit neatly into the uk's media focussed environment. Makes politics "sexy" to people who wouldn't normally care, re invents labour as the party for al rather than the party for workers and socialists. electorate want change, tony says change three times in a row and we all take a step to an imagined left...
ten years later some working class people get very rich, some rich people get richer. Lots of imagined richness (I bought my house for 23p and sold it for 18billion. Then bought a back to back terrace house in Leeds of 20billion, then sold it for 40p etc etc)
Success is governed not by hard work but by ability to "play the system" and willingness to gamble. some people feel this is fine (usually those who found success) some question the ethics of a society that traps certain groups. Rising imigration blamed for everything from terrorism to Xfactor bullying. Society becomes more obsessed with media "stars" that politics as all partys have become one bland soundbyte after another. media saturation has distorted truth into "known facts and unknown facts" people bored of multiple wars with high casulaty rates and financial downturn. Jade Goody dies, a nation weeps.
2010. Labour are gone, people either vote for them because they always have, or because they are slum landlords in Bolton and made a lot of money out of labour and swap their vote for their last shred of dignity. Everyone votes conservative then regrets in 6 days later when king cameron pulls of his mask to reveal himself as a mad old lady being carried by a selection of ex US presidents. Lib Dems take the official opposition seat as people vote them in out of pity and curiosity across the country.
dreams of hung parliament go out of the window along with allance of green socialists, BNP,UKIP etc.
trains still run late, petrol stil goes up, NHS costs more and more for less and less. Crime statistics "change" or stay the same. either way the sun continues to shine with every headline in CAPITALS!!!!!! for added poke to boring non stories and we all lap it up.
a great man once said, it doesn't matter who you vote for, the government still wins, I can't remember who that was but id vote for him. Personaly, I'm voting Lib dem, cos I'm ginger, and a bit fat so i understand their pain.
excellent post.
Yes, great post meehaja!
Really does some up the last 25/30 years of UK history.
I find this a pretty glib view of the world and it certainly doesn't reflect the one that I live in. I talk to all of the neighbours that I actually like. Our kids always played at the other kids houses and we still have the sulky teenage friends around now. The bus driver helps people on and on to the bus and even stops at your house if you ask him. No one is scared, no one is paranoid and most people have always been xenophobic, so no change there.
that's a common, generalised media portrayal of the uk, but not one that i recognise. and i'm sure my gran used to say the same thing about life about 15 years ago, once she stopped going out in a nice neighbourhood (due to age) and started reading the papers / watching tv a lot more. the media like to make us worry about things, i dunno what they have against a positive, happy society but they seem to like telling us that we're all doomed... it's a crock.
For those who can't see much beyond their garden gate...
We live in an affluent, prosperous nation. We enjoy some of the best standards of Education and Health Care available anywhere. Our legal system is the envy of many countries. Etc.
BUT
One look on here on an average day, reveals just what a disparate and dysfunctional society we do live in, in many ways. The number of threads going on about 'Pikeys' or 'religious nutters' or Chavs' or whatever group chosen by posters to attack, shows the depth of ignorance, fear and mistrust amongst our communities. Xenophobia and fear of crime make people shut themselves away in their ivory towers, pretending everything's all right. People feel fearful of scolding rowdy kids in the street or on the bus, people are less inclined to want to queue up politely, they park in Disabled bays, act with less courtesy and tolerance for others, yet the second you question any aspect of their behaviour, they always have some form of justification for their own actions, and expect to be absolved of all their own sins, while screaming about the 'injustice' of a Kosovan family getting vital benefits, or someone in front of them at a petrol pump taking too long. People have become more snobbish, more insular, more compartmentalised. The working classes want to be Middle Class, the Middle Classes feel embarrassed about their own fortune, and buy Fairtrade coffee and bananas to alleviate their guilt, the Upper Classes dream of those Halcyon days when the Oiks knew their place...
We are less patient, less forgiving, less understanding. In spite of our wonderfully diverse culture, people retreat into passive absorption of trash TV, mocking those who try to better themselves, while stuffing their faces with KFC/Kettle Chips/Paté de Fois Gras. The Weekend becomes a time when they eagerly pile into their cars, to drive to some soulless cultural desert of IKEA, B+Q, or Bluewater. Sit there complaining about their neighbours children, while imposing their own greedy selfish values on their own offspring. Spend thousands on a new telly to watch Children in Need on...
Then they sit back enjoying their imported goods, afforded them by economic Imperialism, things made by those far worse off than themselves, in far off lands, and pontificate about immigration...
And all the time ignorant of the fact that maybe, quite possibly, Jack isn't all right, and might actually need some help, some kindness, some Love.
Jack obviously hasn't worked hard enough, hasn't empowered himself, has brought all his problems upon himself.
Maybe people just don't know Jack...
nice rant Fred, a bit sixth form politics essay styleeee but at least you tried 🙂