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[Closed] Today's grammar question

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[#6773508]

Ok grammar pundits, which question is phrased correctly and why?

a) "Was the fire brigade required?"
OR
b) "Were the fire brigade required?"

Im of the opinion that b) is correct, 'cos thats wot i rote, but a friend argues that "was" is correct for singular and brigade is singular.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:13 pm
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Its fire service. 😉


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:15 pm
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Thats not important right now.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:16 pm
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Like teams, it depends if you think of it as one entity or as a group of individuals.

Sunderland AFC are great and Sunderland AFC is great are both grammatically correct.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:17 pm
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Rob disagrees with your friend.

Be advised Rob is not an grammerologist :mrgreen:


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:18 pm
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A. You're not asking about multiple brigades.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:19 pm
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Mackem, thats my line of thinking. I view a brigade as a collection of people, not a single entity, hence I used were.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:20 pm
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Single entity, made up of several individuals:

Was the fire service required? vs
Were firefighters required to attend?

Likewise Sunderland AFC is (but the players of SAFC are...).


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:23 pm
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From my limited research, its indicating that both a) and b) are correct, a) being the "informal", b) being the "formal".


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:26 pm
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And from Mackem's link:

Collective nouns refer to groups of people usually. Our choice of singular or plural verb form often depends on whether we are thinking of the group as an impersonal unit (in which case we use the singular verb - and relative pronoun which) or as a collection of individuals (in which case we use the plural verb form - and relative pronoun who).

So, it depends...

But for the OP, I'd have used "was".


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:28 pm
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In this case:

a) is correct. Companies, teams, etc are singular.

b) is probably more widely, if incorrectly, used though.

If you're referring to members of whatever organisation you're talking about, it'll usually be b).


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:38 pm
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I'd go with neither. The sentence could be better structured


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:42 pm
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Well, was it required?


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:42 pm
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Apparently not.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:45 pm
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Thats not important right now.

It is. A slightly rephrasing of the sentence and the problem goes away.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:48 pm
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Not really molly.
"Was the fire service required?" or "Were the fire service required?", its still the same question regarding grammar.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:50 pm
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But the fire service is more obviously a single thing imo.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:52 pm
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A.

Sounds right, is right.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 2:59 pm
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You see, b) sounds right to me.
Language, innit.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 3:25 pm
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ah, but that's the thing

b) sounds right, isn't right. 🙂

If it's for a formal questionnaire, published (print or online) and distributed and you want to know what's grammatically correct, it's A. If you want to be understood, do what you like, because either will get the job done.

*I'm guessing it is, otherwise you'd go for personal something like: "did you need/call the fire brigade/service?"


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 3:32 pm
 DezB
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English [i]Language, innit.[/i]

Try answer the "why"s about the English language from 12 year olds:
eg, from yesterday "Why is sheep the plural of sheep?" "yeah, and fish is the plural of fish"

And, more to the OP's line of enquiry - UK - "U2 were playing", US - "U2 was playing". Does that follow for the brigade/service question?


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 3:32 pm
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Thank you DezB, you seem to at least understand where im coming from.

Oh the plural of sheep is sheeps.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 5:01 pm
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A as the fire brigade is a single entity were denotes multiple entities eg were firefighters required?


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 5:08 pm
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A subeditor writes:

Most publication style guides will say that organisations should be singular, with an exception for sports teams ("The Fire Brigade was...", "Manchester United were...").

There's no rule though. The important thing is to make a decision and stick to it in all cases so you're consistent.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 5:11 pm
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I'd go with (a) for major incidents and (b) for cat-rescuing activities were only one engine (and a single team) would be needed.


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 5:18 pm
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Don't bring U2 into it, it just makes things worse.
Guardian Style Guide:
====
singular or plural?
Corporate entities take the singular: eg The BBC has decided (not "have"). In subsequent references make sure the pronoun is singular: "It [not "they"] will press for an increase in the licence fee."

Sports teams and rock bands are the exception – "England have an uphill task" is OK, as is "Nirvana were overrated"
====

http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-s
Clear as anything?


 
Posted : 12/01/2015 5:24 pm