[Closed] Consultant not having a good day at work, LOL

It's important that we all get the opportunity to tell the Prime Minister to eff off once in our lives.

I think that bloke needs to learn some bedside manners coming in ranting like that in front of patients, he came across as a bigger **** than what Cameron is.

I think that he is right to get them out asap. He was unhappy with the jouralists etc who were not obeying the rules which risks infection etc... Although he could have done it in a less aggressive way in front of the PM!

Presumably the excercise was cleared with the hospital in the first place. Not much of a "Senior Registrar" if he didn't know about it and if he did - well, what a prat.

I thought CallMeDave responded quite well, in the circumstances...

Much as I like to see Dave getting told to eff off, it did strike me as a bit over the top...FFS, he was wearing a bow-tie. I can only imagine...

The looks of embarrassment on the faces of everyone are quite funny though.

Agreed, people are suppose to grovel whilst in the presence of the PM, not treat him and his entourage as if they were nothing more than mere mortals. Specially when they are on the extremely important business of photo opportunities, to show how much the PM cares about the health service he is in the process of shafting.

Top notch. Good work that mayn. 😀

Those self-serving scum have a ****ing cheek going into an NHS hospital anyway. If I'd bin there I wooduv thrown the contents of me bedpan at 'em. ****s.

LOL @ the tagger ! .....as I wrote my post I thought, I can't believe I'm actually defending some poncey shouty geezer in a bow tie - what's the world coming to eh ? Apparently it was predictable ! 😀

Good on him, we get it drilled continually about cross infection and how if a patient get an infection with 3 days of going into hospital they'll question us to see it we followed protocols. Now given we get call to patients covered in they're own shit, piss, vomit and upside down in a ditch we have to make sure that we put alco-gel on before donning gloves. You then get them into hospital and visitors wander around coughing and spluttering ignoring guidelines. He has a point he put it across rather strongly but good on him.

Just showed the Doc wife this and she was happy to explain that all the senior Registrars / Consultants (along with everyone else) have been forced to drop their ties, sleeves below the elbows, watches, rings et all due to the infection campaigns, and given their love of officialdom, and formality its a bit of a sore point for many.

And given they are going to all the effort, and some yobby journos and PR persons come traipsing through can understand his frustrations ... but maybe not his delivery method.

Couldnt help but smirk when he insisted on introducing himself as a senior registrar prior to bollocking them - they're all as bad as one another, to be frank.

Mighty it's not so much that as the way it's done where they're are clearly flaws in the system and more concerning matters. However, there's figures been set to achieve so boxes have to be picked and money spent on ticking these boxes that possibly could be spent elsewhere.

Pathetic.

What is? (Steady the buffs).

Completely agree DRAC, as im sure the consultant bollocking everyone out does, thats part of the frustration of the Health professionals.

ie. "Why do I have to wear this shirt that makes me look like a first year medical student so you prats can tick the box then come traipsing in here full of supposed bacteria ridden cross transference items of dressage".

imo he just came over as a senior prat ranting like that. Very unprofessional.

I don't think he said registrar - and he's a pretty old one if he is

I suspect he said senior surgeon (ie consultant by implication), though a bit muffled. Guessing nobody told him the big nobs were visiting and he's a bit miffed about it 😆

Given that the geezers in suits were effectively just visitors, they'd have no right to ask them to roll up their sleeves and they weren't going near patients anyway - Dave & his chimp both had a go at rolling up

Makes no odds though - excellent rant !

imo he just came over as a senior prat
. Very unprofessional.

I would agree. 😈

Pathetic.

I totally agree, Flashy.

What Cameron and his little pet are doing in an NHS hospital in the first place is just disgusting.

I totally agree, Flashy.

What Cameron and his little pet are doing in an NHS hospital in the first place is just disgusting.

Probably looking for stuff to sell on e-bay ...

Innit though!

Can't work out which is worser though; Cameron for being a Selfservative, or Clegg for being a deceitful, conniving, lying hypocritical shyster....

Had to laugh at the woman gently leading the ranting consultant away saying 'come talk to me'

Right to complain about people not following procedure but ranting like that makes him look like a t***. He could have come in and gently explained why it was required rather than acting upset just because he has to wear short sleeves.

However would we be talking about it now if he hadn't flown off the handle?

Hospitals are not for screen shots especially featuring people who arte trying to sell them off for the least money to their mates, good on that consultant.

heres a spin. How would we react if the boffins said "due to health and safety all cyclists must now wear lycra to reduce incidence of clothing becoming caught in equipment"

I for one would be ranting my nut off if Cameron came waltzing across in a set of baggies while I was making testicular shadow puppets !!!

Poor chap misses his cufflinks to go with his bow tie........

I wonder if there was a bit of conversation before that? it'd be a strange way to kick off but if he'd already run into PR people/assistants saying "Don't go in there" then storming the castle would be more appropriate.

Cameron did well I thought tbh. Clegg looked like he was lost at sea.

[img] [/img]

It struck me that he felt his toes had been trodden on. Perhaps a discourteous hospital PR bureaucrat authorised the filmed interview without his say-so (as head of the ward/unit), and he got the hump, maybe felt undermined or a little disrespected. Ruffled feathers and all that. I guess you can’t fault him for placing his patients first. It lacked charm but overall I thought "fair play to you mate".

Nice clean ward and relativeley young patients in it.

Wonder what it was he was talking to the dude in the compression stockings about?

"Well, for the princely sum of 'no rise to your taxes' I, your caring sharing prime minister can offer you excatly the same treatment in a choice of treatment centres, some of which may be almost as close to your home as you local district general hospital.

"You can be cared for by enthusiatic but less experienced teams in a non-acute hospital-shaped building, in which should you get serious complications overnight, you will be seen by one generic SHO before being scooped into an ambulance and taken to a proper hospital.
....where you won't be seen at night by a specialist any more because the selling off of less acute specialities means there is less expertise available round the clock to care for the really bad cases in your field of illness. "

The consultant comes across as a bit frazzled to put it kindly, but I suspect that ^^ is what his rant is really about...

A spokeswoman for Guy's and St Thomas' NHS Foundation Trust said: “Arrangements for today's visit were entirely consistent with the Trust's infection control policy.
“One individual member of staff expressed concern with one element of the infection control measures employed, but this was not a view shared by the wider team.”

What a tool.

What happened to my tagger ? 🙁

Got modded, innit?

All part of the new-type Respect campaign.

What "Respect campaign" ? .......have we got to be nice to each other ? 😯

What was it, btw?

What, are you pretending it wasn't you ? 😉

It just said 'predictablernie'. I usually get 'boringernie' or simular ......the tagger obviously felt a little more creative today.

EDIT : All this moderation is doing my head in......posts which I reply to are disappearing 😕

For pure comedy value that video gets a 10 out of 10, cameron was funny. Poor chap on the bed being surrounded by them too, I reckon he sent a distress signal to the surgeon who just came in to see him and get rid of the politicians 😀

🙂

Trust an orthopaedic surgeon to pull a stunt like that! However, the thing is that all that bare below the elbows stuff is not backed up by any evidence that it does actually reduce infection rates. But the NHS has it as a policy because it looks good to the public and media. So if clinicians are required to go along with this charade then EVERYONE should have to play the game. I suspect that was the point he was trying to make in typical orthopaedic bull-in-a-china-shop style.

Infection rates are reduced by hand washing and by not having hospital bed occupancy rates approaching 100% .

For some more orthopaedic humour check out "orthopaedics versus anaesthetics" on you tube.

Consultant was perfectly right to do this.

If it is a policy to prevent infection ( and Cameron had met the policy) then everyone should do so and the doc is perfectly within his rights to enforce the rules. The senior nurse should have done so.

Doc was a stroppy twonk - he could have done it more professionally.

I have seen politicians thrown out of hospitals for breaking rules and I myself protested over political stunts in hospitals

I myself protested over political stunts in hospitals

Yep, Cameron was clearly trying to pull a cunning little stunt.

project - Member

Hospitals are not for screen shots especially featuring people who arte trying to sell them off for the least money to their mates, good on that consultant.

Agreed.

Its a bloody hospital after all.
His problem was probably the bunch of story hungry camerafolk tramping all over. Good on him.

LOL great vid!

The bloke's a ****.

The fact that he's complained about the dress policy in the past highlights that his 'outburst' was a stunt on his part.

Given that the film crew were told they didn't need to roll their sleeves up as they were not coming into contact with patients, and that Cameron and Clegg did, in my view means he should write an open letter of apology. Not only to those people who he shouted at, but his patients, and also his colleagues.

The bloke's a ****.

Agreed. Ca(moron) is.

The bloke's a *.

The fact that he's complained about the dress policy in the past highlights that his 'outburst' was a stunt on his part.

And why do you think David Cameron and Nick Clegg were in the hospital if it wasn't a stunt on their part? ........do you think that by coincidence they were visiting the same patient in the same hospital and the camera crew just happened to be there at the same time ?

David Cameron and Nick Clegg were clearly engaging in a political stunt, and David Nunn, a consultant orthopaedic surgeon, saw this as a not-to-be-missed opportunity to carry out his own political stunt, and expose what he sees as meaningless free window-dressing to tackle cross-infection in hospitals, whilst real measures which cost money are ignored.

Far from this exposing him as a *, this stunt has shown that Mr Nunn is a shrewd man who doesn't miss an opportunity when it presents itself. And imo everyone who uses the NHS should be grateful that he had the guts to carry it out.

He has certainly highlighted the problem and generated a discussion on the matter. Whilst he simultaneously buggered up David Cameron's and Nick Clegg's attempt to stage a slick and meaningless photo opportunity. Good on ya mate.

Mr Nunn is apparently a Daily Telegraph reader, and this is what he had to say on the matter in a letter to the Telegraph some time back :

[b][i]Sir - The hospital in which I work imposed the new "dress code" some time ago. I now have to half undress to see my patients, and have certainly not been provided with any protective uniform, any more than I was provided with a white coat.

While I wholeheartedly endorse any measure to reduce the risk of infection, I cannot see this but as window dressing. The problem of cross-infection in hospitals in Britain is caused by an adherence to the use of open wards instead of individual rooms, and by the level of bed-occupancy caused by the reduction of total bed numbers, and the need to "hot-bed" to achieve government-dictated targets.

The target culture has driven the abandonment of commonsense practices, such as avoiding placing patients with infections in close proximity to others.

Until the control of hospital admissions is returned to the hands of clinicians, and the control of the hospital itself to a proper Matron, who rigorously inspects the place, the levels of cross-infection in the NHS will continue.

David Nunn, London SE3 [/i][/b]

Like I said, bare below the elbows is just a charade. If we're going to play silly games then everyone should have to join in.

Hear Hear Jim.

We don't have our own guidelines so have to use the ones set for hospitals, which of course is a whole different environment. Causes some interesting ideas which are again for ticking boxes.

ernie RESEARCHED and found a letter written by the angry chappy SOME TIME AGO in the Telegraph!!! 😯

Can't compete with that...

I love how every post here gets polarised into 'right vs left' or indeed 'god vs the futility of our brief existence on earth'. (yes, you Woppit)

Let's not forget that lots of this NHS [s]sell-off[/s] reform nonsense was started by NooLab a few years ago anyway. I bet flashy would be wetting his plus fours with laughter and indeed starting a thread on here if it had been eighteen months ago and it was Gordon Brown on the end of the doctor's rant instead. Whereas I seem to remember ernie having the same level of scorn for underhand stealth privatisation whichever party it was trying to slip it in unnoticed.

Regarding Mr Nunn's letter above and cross infection, how are hospitals supposed to suddenly switch from open wards to single rooms? Knock all the hospitals down and start again? Take the recently opened all singing QE Hospital in Birmingham. Long open curved wards, so staff cannot see from one end to t'other.

Long open curved wards, so staff cannot see from one end to t'other.

yep, we've got a couple like that too. PFI too, so freekin' awesome* value for your money, taxpayers.

*sorry i meant 'will cost you twice as much as if the SHA had paid for it up front in the first place, and tied into renting it for another 25 years'

julianwilson - Member
I love how every post here gets polarised into 'right vs left' or indeed 'god vs the futility of our brief existence on earth'. (yes, you Woppit)

High praise indeed.

"bare below the elbows" has some sense to it. One of the issues used to be that it was very difficult to get male doctors to wash their hands properly because of the buttoned cuffs that they did not want to get wet or rollup. That has now gone. Its not so much the short sleeves prevent cross infection as long sleeve reduce proper handwashing.

And long ties trailing in everything and never being washed? Yuck

It's this sort of prima-donna like behaviour that often makes it very hard for clinical teams to communicate and work together effectively.

In surgical teams it's not uncommon to find this sort of character (note: not this individual), shouting down their colleagues at the mere suggestion that a surgical checklist should be followed, only for the patients to then pop out the other side with a serious adverse event.

High [b]praise[/b] indeed.

*boom tish* 😀

Some time earlier
[url] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2143680.stm [/url]

Let's not forget that lots of this NHS sell-off reform nonsense was started by NooLab a few years ago anyway

Was it?

I very much doubt Labour had any intentions to carry out such wholesale destructive 'reforms' as the Tories. Seeing as how the majority of folk who work in the NHS are more likely to vote Labour, I can't see how they do something that would alienate vast numbers of their voters...

People need to wake up and realise just what evil money-grabbing self-serving *s the Tories are. Does anyone truly believe that they have this nation's best interests at heart? really? Because if you do, then you are seriously deluded. Would you be interested in investing in some property on Mars?

Forget all that 'Left v Right my chosen party's better than yours' crap; we have to worry about our nation being screwed completely by a bunch of scum who don't give a toss about anyone but themselves.

[i]Hmm, how can we prevent raising taxes which will affect and annoy our rich chums? I know, sell off the NHS! It's only the plebs what use it anyway, we can afford private healthcare...[/i]

*s.

Elfin, please don't think I am defending the present government.

I was posting SDP leaflets in people's front doors when I was 10 (and they were remotely principled!), and have 12 years NHS service under my tunic. And I will be having a party when thatcher dies that you will be most welcome to come to.

But yes, nulab were slipping in all sorts of underhand nonsense before the general election, certainly much of the blurb in my first post was already happening 5 years ago, and the breakup of PCT's and GP contracting were all planned under labour. And I would be moaning just as much about it under a labour government as I am now.

My ill-made point in that post was that the usual Toryboys on this forum only come out when it suits the Good Name Of The Conservative Party, whereas Ernie (and you to a lesser extent) will post up about 'morally right vs wrong' not 'red vs blue' as sometimes all the politicians are wrong.

FWIW 'Reforms' will not really save much in taxes. In extrememly limited fairness to the government, the object is a blindly and stupidly principles-driven reduction in the 'state', ie the taxes to go back into private enterprise and reduce the responsibility of central government for our health. Oh, and has the (I am sure unintended, yeah right) side effect of making rich people richer. The recent backtracking on keeping the health secretary ultimately responsible is very important IMO.

What are the Tory proposed reforms/sell offs anyway? Its not as if the last Labour government didn't encourage the use in of PFI's.

Scamper - the idea is to put GPs into consortium that then decide what healthcare work is done by what provider - private included. GPs do not have the expertise so private healthcare companies were gearing up to take on this role for them and some / much work would then go to private healthcare providers - basically changing he NHS from an organisation that does stuff to one that commissions other people to do stuff.

IE complete privatisation. No more NHS

IE complete privatisation. No more NHS

I call BS

I call BS

If in internetland it's really that easy to disagree with someone who works in it and takes an active interest in it, then I call BS on your calling BS allthepies. 😉

Not sure he should be in that position - would you want him operating on you if he can get himself into an emotional state like that?

I take "no more NHS" to mean that the punters have to pay for healthcare at point of use. Do you really think that's the plan of the current government ?

Well if you take that as your definition its not nessasarily the end.

If you take the definition of the NHS as a national service,planned,funded and organised to give comprehensive universal care in the most efficient manner than the Tory plans are the end of the NHS. They want to reduce it to a fragmented system of commissioning not doing and they allow the private health companies to cherry pick the profitable bits.

I wish people would stop calling NuLabour 'left'.

Well, I'm sure there are many who'd like to see it that way. I doubt the Tories will be able to achieve very much very soon, but it's the gradual erosion of the NHS that is a huge worry. And yes, as already mentioned, Labour are also complicit in this. Just that the Tories are far worse with this kind of thing.

NHS does not mean 'free at point of use', it means loads more than that. I'll start us off with not-for-profit, accountable to the health secretary and standardisation of rules and operating procedures laid out by DOH. So yes, BS to your BS. 😀 [edit, oh, tj beat me to it]

FWIW, first-world contries with privatised or semi-privatised healthcare systems don't have payment at point of use for all treatments/interventions. Health insurance and 2 tier medical treatment depending on your funds. You don't have to pay to get in an ambulance in the states, but the treatment you are offered once in ED varies according to your insurance or lack of. Also when has NHS dentistry been free at point of use for all patients?

And long ties trailing in everything and never being washed? Yuck

what about stethoscopes? and the differences in ANTT performed at different sites? and reusable tourniquets?

any change that is meant to reduce infection should be evidence based and consistent with other protocol otherwise it's pointless and undermined by other procedures

fontmoss - stethoscopes should be cleaned between patients - easy with an alcohol wipe never thought / heard owt about tourniquets. Presumable BP cuffs as well

You are right tho - should evidence based

I do clean it but even with cleaning it's not in keeping with the concepts of hygiene being promoted

We have disposable tourniquets now and pretty good ones too as the others they tried were gash. Cuffs get cleaned between patients as does all reusable equipment, if they're heavily contaminated they get sent for a deep clean.

but you're still allowed to use reusable tourniquets and a lot of folk do, it's the lack of consistency that annoys me

plus cleaning blue trays rather than having disposable ones?!

but you're still allowed to use reusable tourniquets and a lot of folk do, it's the lack of consistency that annoys me

We are but they have to be laundered between patients so not really practical. Yup it's consistency that annoys me.

plus cleaning blue trays rather than having disposable ones?!

We're moving away from disposable ones to ones you can clean. 😯

We're moving away from disposable ones to ones you can clean

that's what i meant, a cynic might say it's motivated by money rather than what's in the patient's best interests

I should prob get back to studying rather than ranting 😉

Ooh that's just a terrible suggestion.

Enjoy your studying.

And long ties trailing in everything and never being washed? Yuck

Quite a lot of evidence of bacterial infestation of doctors ties. Less evidence that they are the cause of patient infection but given what has been found on them I agree with the above statement and personally didn't fancy continuing to wear one round my neck.

I have always hated ties, they always made me feel uncomfortable and I stopped wearing them about 8 years ago. Formal shirts with sleeves rolled up or short sleeves is not a terribly good look ( and bow ties frankly should be psychiatrists only ). Standard kit for me is now a polo shirt and chinos and nobody seems to feel that I am less useful as a result - indeed expressed opinion from the patients is universally in favour. Stethoscope does get cleaned regularly - alcohol wipes.

Problem with ties, suit jackets and white coats is that they tend to get washed/cleaned only rarely and they do reduce the likelihood of proper hand washing.

Mind you I do entirely agree that more important in reducing infection is not running at 100% bed occupancy and having a bed stock mainly or entirely consisting of single rooms, ideally ones which have the flexibility to manage patients regardless of how sick they are so they don't have to be moved around from bed to bed and ward to ward. Plenty of evidence for that in the form of the movement for evidence based design. Always makes me despair that hospitals take the "cheap" option of multi bed spaces because it needs less nurses to care for the patients and it then costs them a packet in avoidable infections and increases in length of stay and readmission as a result.