[Closed] Tipping in Restuarnts - Wife Annoyed

Since they are the amongst the poorest paid workers in the lowest skilled jobs.

Surely you mean McDonalds, Burger King etc, warehouse staff, shop staff, call centre staff or all industries etc etc in that comment then.

None of the above are on fantastic salaries. None of the above can add significantly percentagewise to their daily wage. Yet most of the above are expected to serve, clean and smile as part of the wage that they are paid.

Even if waiters were paid only minimum wage- that wage is paid to them to do the job, carry a plate, smile. Why should someone in McDonalds be treated different in your calculations?

For the record I've worked in a restaurant, McDonalds, Woolworths and various warehouses. At no point did I feel vunerable or taken advantage of.

Im out now but the next time this topic comes around I'll be sure to post again.

This is just not true.

It is absolutely true. I know this because the bill says so.

What do you mean by that?
Do you mean the owner hasn't accounted for staff wages? or do you mean the staff bonus?
or something else?

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

Thats why you wouldn't tip at McDonalds or at places where you queue up to order food at the bar.

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

Again, not factually correct.

So why is more expensive than those places then?

I know this because the bill says so.

You are a complete mug. 🙂

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

That's not the case in the UK
Employers must pay the minimum wage and are not allowed to make it up with tips accrued.
So why would the restaurant not include the cost of waiters in the bill?

You are a complete mug.

No, just capable of reading what is written.

So why would the restaurant not include the cost of waiters in the bill?

Convention, on the understanding that the customer will pay for that cost unless there is a good reason not to.

OK then
Let's say you tip the waiter a fiver, given that service isn't included.
How does the restaurant owner get hold of that fiver in order to pay for the service?

No, just capable of reading what is written.

Go on, explain, it'll be entertaining!

The person plonking the food down in front of you in a UK restaurant will be being paid at least the UK minimum wage by the owner (unless they are the owner in which case they might be making a loss for the privilege) out the money you pay for the actual cost of the food as written on the menu. Anything you leave as a tip is to supplement their wage above that minimum because you think they went above and beyond, or you are worried about getting cock cheese in your soup next time you go.

Go on, explain, it'll be entertaining!

It says "service not included". I can't make it any simpler for you.

Since they are the amongst the poorest paid workers in the lowest skilled jobs.
Surely you mean McDonalds, Burger King etc, warehouse staff, shop staff, call centre staff or all industries etc etc in that comment then.

Even if waiters were paid only minimum wage- that wage is paid to them to do the job, carry a plate, smile

I really don't think you are reading carefully. Please do so.

I am talking about the US, where waiting staff are paid BELOW minimum wage. The tips are there to bring them up to that MINIMUM level. If you don't tip, they make under minimum wage.

Re the vulnerable - it's not different, no. All poorly paid low skilled workers are vulnerable (that's why I used the word amongst).

You do not normally get the chance to tip anyone else - that's the difference.

If you can help one person, then do so - if you cannot help others, that's no reason not to help out those you can.

I am talking about the US, where waiting staff are paid BELOW minimum wage. The tips are there to bring them up to that MINIMUM level. If you don't tip, they make under minimum wage

We know you are but the thread is about tipping in the UK not the US and mixing the two practices doesn't make sense.

OK then
Let's say you tip the waiter a fiver, given that service isn't included.
How does the restaurant owner get hold of that fiver in order to pay for the service?

They don't. Instead, your well-fed behind is subsidised by a poorly-paid employee.

Dont think convention has anything to do with it. Its a free choice to tip or not. I tip based on how I feel about the service and food I receive. I dont feel compelled one way or the other

Couple of quid per head (usually just me and the wife) for a low key lunch or dinner.

10%+ for a special meal

Zero if the food & service were crap

If you can help one person, then do so - if you cannot help others, that's no reason not to help out those you can.

As well as quite a few others on here, I think you'll find his attitude to 'help' is the same as this gentleman's.....

[img] ?6[/img]

😛

They don't. Instead, your well-fed behind is subsidised by a poorly-paid employee.

It may be well fed but I'm not far of minimum wage myself, I don't accepts tips BTW - before you start offering 😉

Dont think convention has anything to do with it. Its a free choice to tip or not. I tip based on how I feel about the service and food I receive. I dont feel compelled one way or the other

Similarly, I don't feel compelled to pay for my main course if it's crap. I would ask for a replacement or for it to be taken off the bill.

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

You can't possibly think that this is true.

It's so obviously complete cobblers, you have to be trolling 🙂

If it's true, then I should be paying my tip direct to the owner, because they are the ones paying the waiter his wage every week, so they need the tips to make up their losses surely.

I don't feel compelled to pay for my main course if it's crap

Hmm but then you've got the problem that people's definition of crap varies enormously.

We know you are but the thread is about tipping in the UK not the US and mixing the two practices doesn't make sense.

Well I pointed it out for the benefit of those who may travel to the US and take their hard-nosed tipping policy with them - and people did not seem aware.

However Hora then started arguing with me about it, and seemed unaware that I was making a distinction. Hence the clarification directed at him.

Hmm but then you've got the problem that people's definition of crap varies enormously.

True, but some things are pretty easy to define, like a well-cooked steak when I've asked for it rare.

I can only remember complaining twice in restaurants. On one occasion (overdone steak), I had a replacement main course, on another (very long wait), they discounted the bill. Neither problem was the fault of the waiting staff so I still left a tip.

If it's true, then I should be paying my tip direct to the owner, because they are the ones paying the waiter his wage every week, so they need the tips to make up their losses surely.

You mean a bit like [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scandal-of-firms-that-dodge-paying-the-minimum-wage-8580941.html ]this?[/url]

[i]The Low Pay Commission, which recommends minimum wage levels, estimates that more than 100,000 adults receive below the legal rates – and the actual figure is probably considerably higher because of under-reporting of the problem. The TUC believes that between 250,000 and 300,000 employees could be unlawfully denied the minimum wage.

Although it is supposed to be illegal to pay staff below those levels, employers are using a variety of ruses to sidestep the rates. They include: restaurants assuming staff will receive a certain sum in tips and deducting that cash from their pay packets[/i]

Lol - subtle trolling Molgrips 😀

They don't. Instead, your well-fed behind is subsidised by a poorly-paid employee.

Say a restaurant sells a meal for a given price, and bills it "service not included."

By law, the restaurant has to pay the staff at least minimum wage.

You seem to be arguing that the meal has been intentionally under-priced on the expectation that the customer will make up that shortfall in tips.

In your scenario here, you leave a tip on the table. The waiting staff pocket the tip / share it with the back office. The net result is that the staff have been paid [i]twice[/i], once by their employer and once by the customer, meanwhile the restaurant hasn't been paid their "service charge" and are out of pocket on the meal. Is that fair?

I said before, the problem is that we're neither one nor the other in the UK. In a given restaurant, is a "service charge" based on ransos's pricing model, or is it a way of getting a free increase in raw profit?

I've always tipped because it's the "right thing to do". But really, it's just giving away free money. In the US it's different both in terms of pricing models and in levels of service you receive (as Molgrips keeps talking to himself about) but in the UK you're not really gaining anything and the staff are already getting paid properly.

As someone else said earlier, you wouldn't tip in McD's. Why not? Those poor buggers will be run into the ground for a pittance, are they less deserving because they're not wearing a suit or a little black dress?

True, but some things are pretty easy to define, like a well-cooked steak when I've asked for it rare.

True. I sent back undercooked chicken for example. No brainer.

Once though I was in a restaurant in.. forget where, maybe Nottingham. It was labelled Moroccan. They'd clearly put a lot of effort in but also a lot of sugar. Loads. The salad.. well imagine a fruit salad mixed with lettuce, chicken and covered with ice cream topping. And the lamb was also dripping with syrup. The waitress was fine, she was concerned that I'd left a lot, and I had to pass my concern on to the kitchen.

Those poor buggers will be run into the ground for a pittance

Are they? Seems they pay slightly above min wage. Does MacDs have a bad reputation? Not sure.

You seem to be arguing that the meal has been intentionally under-priced on the expectation that the customer will make up that shortfall in tips.

In your scenario here, you leave a tip on the table. The waiting staff pocket the tip / share it with the back office. The net result is that the staff have been paid twice, once by their employer and once by the customer, meanwhile the restaurant hasn't been paid their "service charge" and are out of pocket on the meal. Is that fair?

As someone else said earlier, you wouldn't tip in McD's. Why not?

Because a) they don't provide a waiter service and b) the bill is inclusive.

hora - Member

Its not hardwork

This man has obviously never had a job serving the general public.
😆

Interesting mixed bag of responses so far. Given the left wing nature of the STW masses i'm slightly surprised by the number of folks who appear to never tip!

FunkyDunc - Member

I don't get tipping, no one gives me a tip or a tax free (dodge) bonus in my job

Maybe you're not that good at it?
😛
But seriously, what do you do and how much do you earn?

I work for a large pub chain and tips get processed with wages and therefore are taxed.
(I am not naive enough to believe that all tips do)

Anyone Who see the phrase....

[b]"Service not included" [/b]

Printed at the bottom of a bill, and thinks that it literally means that the owner has not taken into account the costs involved with employing waiters and bar staff, and paying their wages and NI / tax contributions etc etc is clearly either deliberately "misunderstanding" for effect.

Or they are an idiot.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but even a couple of seconds thinking about it would be enough to realise that's not the case.

They can write what they like on the bill. Makes no difference. It's illegal not to pay staff and we all know it, so if they actually mean that nobody has paid for the "service" then they should be reported.
If they actually mean "give us more money because we expect it" then, frankly they can get knotted.
Although I do tip more often than not, I will never feel obliged to (a tip in a flipping cafe for a £2 cup of coffee??? Yeah right). It's non mandatory and should be treated as such.

Cougar - the difference is that McDonalds - in spite of their advertising, is not a restaurant. They don't bring you the food, it comes in cardboard, it isn't food, and they don't take away the plates. Or show you the wine list.

I always tip 10%, more for good service, less or nothing at all for bad service. I have worked as a waitress and it is HELL. Waiting staff deserve it.

Left wing my arse!
I've been described as a Thatcherite* and am way more left wing than the majority here.
Bunch of champagne socialists.

It's always "Won't somebody ([b][i]else[/i][/b]) help the poor person!"

I don't even believe in the concept of money!

*Cue binners! Want to make it three from the "personal collection"? 😉

Printed at the bottom of a bill, and thinks that it literally means that the owner has not taken into account the costs involved with employing waiters and bar staff, and paying their wages and NI / tax contributions etc etc is clearly either deliberately "misunderstanding" for effect.

I think it means that the waiting staff will get than they would reasonably expect.

Maybe that's too subtle a point for you.

Yes, if it says "service included" they have cheekily whacked 10% onto the total of the menu prices, in the hope that you are too drunk to notice and will add an additional 10% on top. You need to watch for this - I think it is a liberty and have been known to take it off the bill if the service or food was poor.

I always try to tip in cash, even if you pay by card, that way there is a better chance the staff will get the money.

[img] [/img]

these girls are on below minimum wage 8)

I think it means that the waiting staff will get than they would reasonably expect.
Maybe that's too subtle a point for you

It is fairly "subtle".

Maybe if it actually made sense that would help?

Either way, what you actually said was..

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

And that's total rubbish.

It means nothing even close to what you claimed (and if you don't already know that, I'd be surprised)

Slogo - is that Wetherspoons in Bolton?

Its all very well smiling when you're working somewhere like that. But what about those waiting staff less fortunate?

always tip unless the service was poor. even if the food wasnt great but service ok the waitress/waiter deserve a tip. in fact i get quite embarrassed not leaving one. I was in place the other week and wanted to pay by card, the machine didnt ask for gratuity like they do in some places (i dont like to use this feature unless i have no cash on me) and i didnt have any cash on me this time. i apologised to the waitress, explained i had no cash but hoped the machine would take a tip. she was very smiley and forgiving, said its fine and not to worry about etc etc. i felt terrible but there were no cash machines anywhere near by and i wasnt driving... theres no end to this story other than if i go back and get that waitress ill be dropping her a few quid extra!

It is fairly "subtle".

Maybe if it actually made sense that would help?

It makes perfect sense. If you choose not to understand, that's your perogative.

Either way, what you actually said was..

It means the price includes the cost of the meal. It does not include the the cost of someone comeing to your table, takeing your order and delivering your meal.

And that's total rubbish.

It means nothing even close to what you claimed (and if you don't already know that, I'd be surprised

There's one tiny flaw in your argument: I didn't say that.

in fact i get quite embarrassed not leaving one

I get the impression that the forum tight-wads are not easily embarrassed.

The emotion of embarrassment is easily overcome with the knowledge you are [b]RIGHT![/b]

This lofty self-satisfied righteousness also has the same sledgehammer effect on empathy and compassion too, so its a win/win