[Closed] Time for airguns to be banned? (ex-shooter rant)

I'm willing to bet bicycles killed and injured more people in the UK last year than air rifles.

The reason air guns aren't controlled as much as shotguns, and shotguns aren't controlled as much as Section1 Firearms...is to do with lethality at range. A legal limit air rifle is rarely lethal at any range to a human (although it can be/has been), a shotgun (firing sporting ammo, not Section 1 ammo) is rarely lethal over say 50 yards to a human, a firearm can be lethal (even .22 rimfire) to many miles.

I grew up near Wimbledon Common, the birthday of competitive shooting in the UK (NRA headquarters of yesteryear), my local school had a .22 rimfire range in their loft, and I shot air rifles with my father and with Scouts. All my friends also had air rifles, and we'd often arrange informal shoots in each others back gardens. My youngest has just started air rifle shooting and loves it.

Ban air rifles? Don't be wet!

coffeeking - Member
Not sure you'd have said that if he hadn't come back from it because H&S were nowhere to be seen.

Life is all about identifying, understanding, taking and managing risks of some sort. You can't learn how to do this by wrapping everyone in cotton wool. What a sad life that would be. (I thanked the teacher for her common sense approach!)

This is a MTB forum after all - or is that not a potentially dangerous [s]sport,[/s] sorry, pastime 😉

Weapons are for war, there are no other reasonable purpose for them.

So you'd ban archery, javelin, discuss, hammer, darts and all shooting disciplines? But not cars? Right, I am minded to quote Jeff Cooper here

"…those who latch on to an unreasonable notion and thereafter refuse to listen to any further discussion of it have problems that are more amenable to psychiatry than to argument."

yes guns they are great for shooting things and erm shooting things and erm shooting things.
Whilst it may be misue to shoot something with a gun we [ polite middle clas society] would prefer you not to it is obvious, if we allow gun ownership, that this will happen
It takes both a bad user and the tool to result in a shooting - remove one and you remove the problem. I would argue it is easier to remove the gun than the problem user but I guess you could licence it

you can decide yourself whether this price is worth paying in the need to own firearms

EDIT : the cars argument is spurious i could kill you with a spoon if the need arose however the guns sole design purpose its to put a projectile into the body of someoen with the intention of killing it. if this was the cars sole purpose it would be a good point otherwise it is just silly. You will be telling me all gun murders are accidents next and that they were not designed just to hurt, maim and kill,
wow gun nut calls those who oppose him nuts.

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/21789-the-root-of-the-evil-by-jeff-cooper/

aye referring to folk as mentally ill whoi oppose you is indeed th eheight of being ameniable to discourse and debate innit 🙄

coined the term hoplophobia over twenty years ago, not out of
pretension but in the sincere belief that we should recognize a very
peculiar sociological attitude for what it is -- a more or less
hysterical neurosis rather than a legitimate political position..

there is lots more there as well as some trully dreadful analogies that would make STW proud

What has brought this on, have they managed to ban everything else that upsets you?

I taught my three sons how to use air rifles, and are happy to let them use them unsupervised.

Life is all about identifying, understanding, taking and managing risks of some sort. You can't learn how to do this by wrapping everyone in cotton wool. What a sad life that would be. (I thanked the teacher for her common sense approach!)

This is a MTB forum after all - or is that not a potentially dangerous sport, sorry, pastime

In case you didn't know, H&S is all about identifying, understanding and managing risks. It's not about removing them entirely or banning things that are dangerous. It's about ensuring people know what the risks are and how to deal with them. Unfortunately H&S officers are rarely well placed to articulate this and those below them in ranking see it as a problem to be avoided rather than a sane process to follow. The teacher will have performed a H&S assessment and rightly assessed and controlled the risks, if she didn't I'd be worried as that suggests she just does what she likes without thoughts about the consequences.

the guns sole design purpose its to put a projectile into the body of someoen with the intention of killing it.

No it isn't. This is true for [i]some[/i] guns, but not all. Target pistols, for example. Never designed to meet the purpose you mention.

coffeeking - Member
In case you didn't know, H&S is all about identifying, understanding and managing risks. It's not about removing them entirely or banning things that are dangerous. It's about ensuring people know what the risks are and how to deal with them.

Thanks, and please excuse my cynicism.

Unfortunately H&S officers are rarely well placed to articulate this and those below them in ranking see it as a problem to be avoided rather than a sane process to follow.

Ah, that explains things a bit better!! So excuse me for still being cynical. 😉

The teacher will have performed a H&S assessment and rightly assessed and controlled the risks, if she didn't I'd be worried as that suggests she just does what she likes without thoughts about the consequences.

No, she applied good old-fashioned common sense!

Anyway, back to banning things....

Guns are bad, m'kay?

No, she applied good old-fashioned common sense!

The great majority of H&S stuff I've ever come across (mostly in construction, mind) is just that. Really. Common Sense. What CK says is right though - too many people blame it when the reason they can't do something isn't anything at all to do with H&S.

Anyway...air guns? I see no need for them...I'd happily see them banned - but a lot would be to do with seeing the STW Violent Fantasist Club whinging about it for years. If I'm honest, it registers low on my give-a-shit-ometer. Boys and their toys and all that - let 'em play if they must.

[img] [/img]

I'm saying nothing...

[url= http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9708170.Crossbow_road_rage_nightmare/ ]cars, crossbows and kids in the back seat[/url]

My car has been shot twice by people with air rifles.

Had this with dads car. Drove it back from Liverpool late at night and the next morning went out and saw a flat tyre (pellet through the side wall), couple of holes in the wheel trim, hole in the bumper and a dent with no paint left next to the side indicator. Took the wheel trim off and a pellet fell out.

We had been in Liverpool for Nanas funeral and had parked the car down the road, not directly outside of the house to give room for the hearses. Suspect it was one of the neighbours pissed off we had parked outside their house. Fortunately we didn't have a blow out on the drive home to Lancashire.

Used to have good sensible fun with a mates pistol when I was a kid. We would set up a firing range in the garden and shoot apples and old cassettes. Then at uni we did similar but with things designed to shoot flames when shot - all safe and not to hurt anyone/thing.

As always it is the mis-use of things which taint them for everyone and sadly due to this I agree that something needs to be done. But with all the guns out there then it's going to be difficult to implement.

Not sure where I stand on this one.
My bro. and a couple of mates had hours of fun with air-rifles when we were youg, shooting targets, toy soldiers cans etc.
We were never tempted to shoot at any animals or certainly people though.
There are just some wrong'uns about, that'll find another way to cause harm if one method is removed. I don't know if banning air-guns would make a big difference long term.
Like all the fuss about survival knives a while back. If you feel the need to stab someone and can't get hold of a Rambo special, what's to stop you using a big kitchen knife?

Ive got a airgun that i use for rat control around the chicken run. Its just below the legal limit and at 30 yards the pellets bounce off the garden shed. Yet when i resurected a crossbow that i inherited and fired that at the shed it went through the shed and into the embankment at the end of the garden. No restrictions appear to apply to crossbows, yet the airgun is considered more dangerous it would seem.

Personally, i think its the use of the word "gun" in the description that gives people the wobblies. In addition to the rifle above,i have a target rifle which is about 4 f/lbs. You couldn't get it over that figure even if you tried. Its very accurate and very consistent, but you'd do more damage to someone if you threw the pellet at them. It was never designed to "kill" or harm anything, purley designed to put holes in paper at a distance.

Regarding the fellas incident with the flat tyre. I seriously doubt that a legal air rifle would puncture a car tyre. Not saying it didnt happen, but sounds like it was a lot more powerful that 12 ft/lbs.

Clong - Regarding the fellas incident with the flat tyre. I seriously doubt that a legal air rifle would puncture a car tyre. Not saying it didnt happen, but sounds like it was a lot more powerful that 12 ft/lbs.

+1

And can be bought by anybody with no vetting or reason for ownership.

but not legally.

My neighbours ****less child was shooting pellets into my garden, aiming at my cat.

If he was shooting into your garden without permission then my understanding is that legally that is "armed trespass" and a serious offence.

Regarding the fellas incident with the flat tyre. I seriously doubt that a legal air rifle would puncture a car tyre. Not saying it didnt happen, but sounds like it was a lot more powerful that 12 ft/lbs.

Probably. But it was still an air powered gun of some sort that was being misused. If they didn't have that one and a legal one they would probably still act like that.

I wouldn't consider a crossbow less dangerous than an airgun/rifle. There is a lot of momentum in an arrow and just watch For Your Eyes Only to see how easy they kill! You are not allowed to hunt with them in the UK are you?

Not allowed to hunt with any type of bow in the UK.

Would much rather (as I was when messing about as a kid) get shot by an air rifle than a modern bow. My 40lb recurve will put a carbon arrow through a pretty solid (certainly way more solid than human flesh) 6" thick straw target boss at 90m.

slainte 😐 rob

Lets ban hot hatch backs as well. There is no way that tis idea could be ignored if airguns are banned. They kill or injure more people each year. So do step ladders.
The ban idea is the usual moronic impulse by those who don't thnk things through and cannot see outside their own interest sphere.
Thing is it is hard to ban something thats unregulated. There must be millions of them out there but who knows. If they became illegal 99.9% would stya that way not declared.
Sometime back the grinning idiots gang decided to ban Brocock ait pistol which had each pellet inside its own air charged shell. They loked a bit like a real live round. Can't remember the exact number but I think getting on for 20,000 had been sold. A few were added to FAC's and very few, less than 100?, were handed into to be destroyed. Now the rest are still there but underground. Thats was clever wasn't it?

I'm an airgun shooter (I shoot HFT) and while personally it wouldn't bother me if there was some kind of registration system for airguns I suspect it's fairly pointless. What's required is that the existing laws are applied heavily in situations where the law is broken - e.g. illegal use of airguns, guns over 12 ft/lb without holding a FAC.

On the subject or crossbows - anyone that thinks they're less dangerous that airguns is kidding themselves. An average crossbow generates way more power than a UK legal airgun.

Sometime back the grinning idiots gang decided to ban Brocock ait pistol which had each pellet inside its own air charged shell. They loked a bit like a real live round. Can't remember the exact number but I think getting on for 20,000 had been sold. A few were added to FAC's and very few, less than 100?, were handed into to be destroyed. Now the rest are still there but underground. Thats was clever wasn't it?

If I recally correctly the existing owners were allowed to keep them (and some kind of license was issued) but they can't be sold to anyone else.

This very evening my brother and his mate are up at the industrial unit ridding the area of a squirrel infestation..

Rentokil have waltzed off with £350 and zero kills.. I have faith in my little bro's airgun skillz dem.. he once shot the neighbours kid from over 80 yards FFS!

An airgun and crossbow are very different in terms of lethal range.
An airgun fired at 45 deg will deliver a pellet that has negligible momentum whereas a crossbow (or recurve/long bow) bolt will descent with considerable momentum and killing potential.
I thought crossbow ownership was now illegal, sure I remember an amnesty several years ago.

[i]An airgun and crossbow are very different in terms of lethal range.[/i]

Although both could be bought (with weekly payments) out of my Mum's catalogue when I was a kid 🙂

Has TJ been on this thread yet?

Has TJ been on this thread yet?

No he's missed his train. 😀

🙂

OK, I'll come back later.

BAN BIKES. I know someone who nearly got knocked over by one and I think they should all be banned. They run red lights, IAM says so, they dont need a license and dont pay road tax. Why should they be allowed on roads n tracks that cars pay for? All they do is slow people downn when they are trying to get to work. At the very least everyone on them should need a license having passed a safety test first, then they need to be taxed just like cars if they want to use roads and cycle ways.

the usual rubbish air guns have a max power of 12 ftlbs .12 ftlbs in 1910 1950 1960 2013 is the same .Bats and hammers kill and maim more people in america than guns.I have chosen america because in the uk it is obvious that bats and hammers golf clubs kill and maim more people each year than guns .There are millions of air guns in the uk with very low death and injury rates.Your concern for our safety will be better spent controlling golf clubs,and idiots riding bikes on pavments

Oooh, the thread resurectionist troll.

good work that man.

[i]Bats and hammers kill and maim more people in america than guns[/i]

Ban bats. Or give them glasses.

Jackdaw. I used to shoot you with my 26ft/lb Rapid*

*on my ticket.

I thought crossbow ownership was now illegal, sure I remember an amnesty several years ago.

Love my air rifle, a permanent fixture stood in the corner of the room with strangely enough a pair of skis.
I had a shotgun licence but let that slip so the gun went.
Personally I know when/if I was shot which one I'd choose to be on the end of.
BTW its a vintage Weihrauch HW 35 .22 which is just right for pest control.

a permanent fixture stood in the corner of the room with strangely enough a pair of skis.
I had a shotgun licence but let that slip so the gun went.
Personally I know when/if I was shot which one I'd choose to be on the end of.

Yep - I'd definitley choose the skis.

I for one firmly support the motion to ban MC Hammer.

Love my air rifle, a permanent fixture stood in the corner of the room with strangely enough a pair of skis.

[i]I for one firmly support the [s]motion to [/s]ban [s]MC[/s] Hammer. [/i]

ftfy 😉

Bats and hammers kill and maim more people in america than guns.I

5thElefant - Member

Love my air rifle, a permanent fixture stood in the corner of the room

Oddly this is now illegal. You actually need to keep it locked up. Utterly unenforcible, but if you get burgled don't mention the gun...

Oddly its not, I just have to prevent access to take ‘reasonable precautions’ to prevent unauthorised access to an air weapon by young persons aged under 18.

As no one under the age of 18 is reasonably likely to access my house and the house is usually reasonably locked, its reasonable to assume I've taken reasonable precautions.

🙂

[i]BTW its a vintage Weihrauch HW 35 .22 which is just right for pest control.
[/i]

Lets not do the ebay seller trick of confusing 'vintage' with 'old' 🙂

I've a HW55 BTW, probably of the same 'vintage'.

I also post on an airgun forum, a lot of people there think that bicycles should be licensed or banned from the road.....

Oddly this is now illegal. You actually need to keep it locked up.

Not true.

I thought crossbow ownership was now illegal, sure I remember an amnesty several years ago.

Also not true. The only restrictions on crossbows are that a) it is illegal to sell one to anyone under the age of 18, b) persons under the age of 18 may not own a crossbow or any crossbow parts, and c) anyone under the age of 18 may not use a crossbow unless supervised by someone over the age of 21.

The only issue with any sort of weapon, be it shotgun, sporting rifle, air rifle, crossbow or whatever is that they are not inherently dangerous. It is only the user that is potentially dangerous.

I spent years shooting air rifles, shotguns, practical pistol (both before Dunblane and after) and I have also represented England twice in field archery. I have never once witnessed any dangerous occurences or behaviour with anyone who is actively involved in these sports. The only danger comes from the inbred sub 100 IQ ****s who use airguns and crossbows as penis extensions

Great Britain has some of the most stringent firearms legislation in the world, which is why we have one of the lowest rates of firearms crime.

bicycles should be ... banned from the road

That would certainly have some interesting side effects.