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Morning,
I'm going to be panelling the centre section of my loft this weekend and I'm looking for some advice on brackets to fix the 8x2 lengths of timber to the existing joists in the loft.
Do I really have to use heavy duty steel brackets (such as [url= http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9281758&fh_view_size=10&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB%2fcategories%3C%7b9372015%7d%2fcategories%3C%7b9372044%7d%2fcategories%3C%7b9372218%7d%2fspecificationsProductType%3dbrackets&fh_eds=%C3%9F&isSearch=false ]these[/url], £1.78 each). Or will I be able to use some thing like [url= http://www.wickes.co.uk/angle-bracket/invt/156727/ ]these[/url], which are £0.72 each.
Potentially going to need 50 of them so don't really want to be spending £100 just on brackets, the timber cost enough!
shirley you needz a joist hanger for 8" x 2" dat yoos gonna walks on?
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but den i nose nuffin
I'm confused!
Are you putting a floor down in your loft?
that's an awful lot of extra weight for the roof structure to hold - have you had a structural engineer look at what you're planning to do?
❓panelling the centre section of my loft
8 x 2 = 8" x 2" or 8cm x 2cm ?
Panelling the centre section of a loft and using 200x50mm joists as noggins?
By panelling I could assume it means flooring. If thats the case then the floor will span in a domestic situation across the existing loft joists. i.e no need for the 8x2 or the brackets.
Or he could be "panelling" the floor with 8x2. Then I say to myself how will he get then up in the loft and why does he want to fix then with brackets. Is he looking for a secret fix system?
etc
etc
8 x 2 = 8" x 2".
that's an awful lot of extra weight for the roof structure to hold - have you had a structural engineer look at what you're planning to do?
Hmm, hadn't really thought about the weight to be honest,3.6m lengths of 8x2 are going to be pretty weighty. Might have to put it on hold.
Are you putting a floor down in your loft?
Not so much as a floor, just chipboard to put boxes and suitcase etc on.
We're insulating it aswell but the panels would need to be raised over 200mm of insulation. Hence the 8x2.
Edit - [url= http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9276266&fh_location=//catalog01/en_GB/categories%3C{9372016}/categories%3C{9372053}/categories%3C{9372281}/categories%3C{9392125}/specificationsProductType=length_1220mm ]These boards[/url] would be going over the insulation.
someone on here managed to build a raised floor by suspending it from the vertical bits;
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I think they did some calculations on weight etc first, though.
perhaps these would be handy
Diall Loft Storage Stilts 12 Pack. @ b&q
cant link the page somehow
They do look quite handy, have you used them? Can't see what weight they're rated for though? They would have to handle a person standing on them as the boiler is in the loft so access is needed for that.
Screw fix counter battens across the top of the existing joists - say 50x50 or 50x75mm.
Apply the insulation in two layers. One layer, slighty oversized to sit between the existing rafters. The other to sit between the new counter batten zone (obviously apply the first layer before counter battening)
Do you need 200mm of insulation? The reason being is I would limit the counter batten size to 75mm in height. If your existing joists are 100mm could you live with 175mm of insulation. Note also the insulation could be compressed under the section of the floor
Batten weight is about 450kg/m3. 1m length of 50x50mm = 1.1kg. What you store up there will be the limiting factor. Just be sensible
PM if you require any more advice.
Those brackets will be significantly cheaper from screwfix or Ironmongery Direct rather than B&Q. That said I just put angled screws in mine to join them. I've only boarded out the loft for storage, not as a habitable room.
EDIT: I also only used 3x2 battons and two layers of insulation at right angles as suggested above.
pjm84 - cheers for the advice, I have a few more questions but can't see an email in your profile?
The existing joists are only about 5-6cm thick, its an old (early 1900s) end terrace. I was going to fix the 8x2 to the existing joists at right angles and put the 2nd layer of insulation at them as suggested.
The only reason I was going to use 200mm is the Govt recommendation of 270mm of insulation. Theres currently about 60-70mm of insulation between the existing joists.
Nothing heavy is going to be stored up there but it definitely needs to be able to take being walked over occasionally on account of the boiler.
I've just found that the typical weight of 8x2 is 4.1kg per metre. Looks like I'll be cancelling that timber order.
Reasonable starting block with the existing joists assuming it not a 12m span which would not be in keeping in an end of terrace house.(window provision!)
I would go with the 75mm cross battens.
Remove the orginal insulation. Put down say 150mm between the existing joists and 100mm above. Slight compression under the floor will be adequately made up by the boarding and storage placed on top. i.e I wouldn't worry about it!
Govt doesn't know its.... from its elbow. These figures change every few years and the industry is still playing catch up. The difference between 250 and 200mm insulation is so minimal in terms of heat loss.
You'll gain more by applying the insulation correctly ensuring that it fills all the gaps, particulary at the eaves, and overlaying in a criss cross patten. (Make sure you don't block off the ventilation at the eaves).
The cross battens will help to retain the first insulation layer in place.
If your joists are only 50-60mm deep then all I'd do is top up the insulation and forget about boarding etc.... with them being so thin
Oh and any chance you could pick just one unit of measure and stick to it?? 😉