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Haven't read all the previous, apologies if this point has already been made
I am seperated from my two daughters mother and they live with her so every moment I can spend with them is very precious to me and I would like to think them. My work is reliant on tourism, it is part of my terms of employment that I may not take time off during school holidays. I don't earn alot but try to take my daughters away for a few days once a year using the local papers "holidays for £10" offer, genuinely the only holiday I can afford for them. We usually go to a caravan park a few miles up the road. I have to take these trips in term time, sometimes including Friday and Monday or sometimes during the week dependant on what "slot" we can get and consequently my girls miss a few days school. I always give plenty of notice and get permission from the Head and class teachers (who are all excellent and do a fine job BTW)
So you see I am not looking to save a few quid on taking Tarquin and Jemima for jollies round Val d'isere dahling. I have a genuine need. Blanket legislation like this will mean my girls and I will lose precious quality time together.
Thanks Mr Gove.
when it comes to school holidays , France is divided into zones , the 3 zones have different holidays , except in the summer and xmas I think .
There French are also pretty hardcore when it comes to pupils missing school, for any reason. There are pretty hefty penalties.
Personally I am totally opposed to taking kids out of school for holidays. It teaches them that education is less important than more frivolous stuff and can have a serious effect on their attitude to learning. Parents who dress up their self interest in "but little johnny will learn loads, will write a diary, will do all his work etc etc" are just justifying their own self interest as other than seeing a few foreigners not much really happens. Certainly no more than if the holiday was during proper school holidays.
I see it all the time at college, kids (always the ones with relatively affluent parents) get taken off for holidays, fall behind on their work, do badly in their exams and then the parents are asking me what [b]I[/b] am going to do about it. All parents seem to think their kids are clever and a week off here or there will not affect their learning. Unfortunately, their perception of their kids ability is usually exaggerated and their learning is affected no matter how good the kids are. Equally cheap holidays seem to be a bit like crack, no matter how often people say "only this once", once they get a taste for it they cant stop, even when it comes to important periods like GCSE and A level years.
However do what you like but: accept the responsibility for you genius kids doing less well than you expected, don't moan about crap schools and teachers being the only reason behind said underachievement, don't expect the teachers to do loads of extra work to bring your kids up to speed etc etc.
I am seperated from my two daughters mother and they live with her so every moment I can spend with them is very precious to me ...... I have a genuine need. Blanket legislation like this will mean my girls and I will lose precious quality time together.
Scenarios like this are what the existing discrectionary system is supposed to accommodate. Actual neccessities rather than just so people can afford a nicer holiday 🙄
Mr Gove's proposal is reported in the Daily Telegraph article as being a blanket ban.
Hopefully when the full facts are available it will be seen to allow for absence due to extenuating circumstances - i.e. head teachers will not be expected to hide behind zero-tolerance legislation
Of course, this would not prevent some parents inventing stories to get what they want 😕 ... (cynical? moi?)
Well I haven't got time to read all this but I would like to point out that holidays do not only benefit the parents. A *good* holiday can be worth a lot more than two weeks of being bored sh*tless in a classroom.
The parents of persistent truants are currently 'fined' (can't pay, won't pay, naturally), then taken to court and given a slap on the wrist.
Removing the power of headteachers to allow absence on a discretionary basis just chucks another couple of hundred thousand families into that failing system.
My two are off to play in a local music festival in a few weeks' time - it will mean a couple of authorised absences from school. Is the school going to lose discretion over this as well? (#firstworldproblems)
Schooling is a partnership between parents and teachers. Some parents take the p*ss out of the current system, and so do some teachers. Removing any flexibility will not tackle those parents who are utterly incapable of holding up their end of the deal, just alienate the many more who just want a pragmatic and mature relationship with the school.
Fortunately it's an unenforceable headline grabber, so we can rest easy.
On the subject of termtime holidays, I've never done it, but I do sometimes look at what the children actually do in the last couple of weeks of the summer term and get very tempted.
Wont this new rule royally **** with Police, Fire, Nurse/Doctor and Ambulance staff's holiday plans with their kids?
This year we took the children from Thurs to Thurs over half term missing Friday. The new headmaster would not allow it. We went anyway. It saved a huge chunk of cost. This is just as Andywoods says.
Who would be a teacher.
I did quite like the fact that Education Welfare Officers stand outside Legoland in Windsor on term time weekdays taking details down from people with school age kids 🙂
Well I haven't got time to read all this but I would like to point out that holidays do not only benefit the parents. A *good* holiday can be worth a lot more than two weeks of being bored sh*tless in a classroom.
A "good holiday" can just as easily be had during official school holidays.
holidays during term time are better [b]fact[/b] - I think it's the thrill of illicit time off school that does it.
Not that it has any relevance at all but when its my safety at risk then yes I will break traffic law
Of course it's relevant - you're criticising Stoner for contemplating ignoring proposed legislation, while being quite content to break existing traffic laws. A week's absence from school is probably less risky for a child's wellbeing than someone flouting traffic laws, especially when they're not wearing a helmet.
[i]especially when they're not wearing a helmet[/i]
this thread now has all the ingredients in place for meltdown.
^^ Yes, I think after 6 pages it's safe to say this thread no longer has a serviceable purpose other than repetition followed by bickering and personal insults ... standard STW procedure
ditch jockey - so stoner is taking his children out of school to ensure their safety? Or some equal imperative?
Excellent. Many thanks. Got any skiing holiday stuff?
No worries.
There is a chalet that's run by an English couple (ex Teachers) that doesn't charge more in school holidays.
(or don't charge less in term time) depending on how you look at it.
I'm pretty sure its in Meribel, but possibly Morzine. Don't have time to look for it now I'm afraid, but they do Summer Mountainbiking and Winter skiing holidays.
Worth a search about.
A "good holiday" can just as easily be had during official school holidays
Debatable. It's always more expensive, no matter if you go abroad or not. Also the thrill of travelling somewhere different and new is a very important thing for some kids. We should not dismiss the value of this experience.
There is a chalet that's run by an English couple (ex Teachers) that doesn't charge more in school holidays.
Chill chalet in Bourg st-maurice does this.
TandemJeremy - MemberNot that it has any relevance at all but when its my safety at risk then yes I will break traffic law. I will not do it for my convenience nor to save a few pennies...
Surely RLJing is all about convenience (or avoiding the inconvenience of waiting, if you prefer)?
hora - Member
Wont this new rule royally **** with Police, Fire, Nurse/Doctor and Ambulance staff's holiday plans with their kids?
I am led to believe that such people, and military as well, will still be permitted 'authorised absence' for their children if it's unavoidable.
Sussex Police have banned all leave between May and the end of September this year, so they won't be taking their kids out of school much after Easter in any event...
I suspect they all have - we're the same, and we're as far from the Olympics as any British police can get.
Also the thrill of travelling somewhere different and new is a very important thing for some kids. We should not dismiss the value of this experience.
And this is impossible during school holidays?
Sussex Police have banned all leave between May and the end of September this year, so they won't be taking their kids out of school much after Easter in any event...
Why does London need so many military/Police officers for those two weeks?
Isn't MI5/6 doing their job? Or is the above an admission that our national security really is like a leaking sieve?
Hora - because they stand on street corners in uniforms and provide a visible presence of security. Makes people feel safer. Bit like all those pointless searches at the airport.
MI5/6 can't really do their job dressed in dayglo orange vests.
Sussex have the benefit of a party conference to manage almost straight after the Olympics, too.
And this is impossible during school holidays?
For many people yes it is, due to the increased cost.
so you think cheap holidays are a sufficient reason to take children out of school? if everyone does this can you imagine the disruption?
[i]cheap holidays are a sufficient treason[/i]
treason's a bit strong a term for it 😉
I almost laughed when Italy declined to enter the race for the Olympics. 2 weeks for what? Billions. Then you have McDonalds junk food as the official sponsor.
And this is impossible during school holidays?
For many people yes it is, due to the increased cost.
I've done some rocket science about this, and incredibly the solution was "Find a cheaper holiday".
It's an incredibly complicated problem that usually only people like Stephen Hawking can fathom, so I can quite understand why most people don't realise this as an option.
so you think cheap holidays are a sufficient reason to take children out of school?
If you're poor, cheap holidays are just holidays.
I do not think everyone should do it. I do however think that in some cases it can be important. However it is clear that having the head teacher decide is a pretty difficult set-up.
[i]incredibly the solution was "Find a cheaper holiday".[/i]
😯 and 😆
I've done some rocket science about this, and incredibly the solution was "Find a cheaper holiday".
Honestly mate drop the sarcastic shite please. It adds nothing besides nastiness.
Holidays are not that cheap in the school holidays. So finding a cheaper holiday is quite hard. Plus there are a lot more people looking for them at those times.
For many people yes it is, due to the increased cost.
Well then, forego it for this year, save up some more, then take the holiday next year. Like we do for most things in life that we can't afford.
So here's another question - how important is two weeks of school out of 11 years?
For many people yes it is, due to the increased cost.
No it's not, its just that lots of people have spent more than they can afford on other things (cars, houses, 50 inch TVs, bikes etc) and an out of season holiday seems like an easy way to counterbalance that. If a holiday is so important for people then they just need to prioritise their spending a bit better.
So here's another question - how important is two weeks of school out of 11 years?
Most of the time- not really, to the pupil. As TJ says, it's about the disruption- if a significant proportion of people did it then the job of the teacher becomes more difficult, to cover missed work fro the returned pupil, or else to prepare work ahead of schedule for the pupil 'to do on holiday'. Other pupils suffer, due to loss of contact time, which isn't fair.
So here's another question - how important is two weeks of school out of 11 years?
Trouble is, its more likely to be 2 weeks off school per year for 11 years.
its just that lots of people have spent more than they can afford on other things (cars, houses, 50 inch TVs, bikes etc)
True, but lots of people haven't.
Plus it's the kids I am talking about, not the parents.
if a significant proportion of people did it then the job of the teacher becomes more difficult
Agreed, but a significant portion don't do it currently do they?
Agreed, but a significant portion don't do it currently do they?
I think the point is that in some schools it is getting to the point where it is significant. It certainly seems more socially acceptable than it was previously.
Mind, in some schools the problem is less a week here and there, but where children, already disadvantaged due to language problems, head back to their parents home country for extended periods. The fallout from one or two cases like this in a class can be enormous.
Holidays are not that cheap in the school holidays.
Do campsites and youth hostels put their prices up massively for school holidays then? And supermarkets?
[i]Trouble is, its more likely to be 2 weeks off school per year for 11 years. [/i]
which is more than half an academic year in total.
grum - campsites do tend to yes (well the summer, xmas probably not as much).
Maybe I'm getting old, and my power of recollection is faulty. But I feel pretty confident that when I went to school, 99% of kids went on holiday during the allotted holiday period. Obviously everyone was richer then so it wasn't a problem.
99% of kids went on holiday during the allotted holiday period
Do you mean only 1% of kids went on holiday in term time?
Cos I'm fairly sure only about 20-30% of kids at my school went on holiday at all.
"if a significant proportion of people did it then the job of the teacher becomes more difficult"Agreed, but a significant portion don't do it currently do they?
But if its OK for one then its OK for everyone.
Or are we back to - "its OK for nice middle class people to go to tuscany but not for chavs to go to Majorca"
Maybe I'm getting old, and my power of recollection is faulty. But I feel pretty confident that when I went to school, 99% of kids went on holiday during the allotted holiday period. Obviously everyone was richer then so it wasn't a problem.
My dad has a habit of saving (hoarding!) paperwork.
This also involves keeping pages from Holiday Brochures of the places we went on holiday.
Comparing now with 20 odd years ago, the premium for School Holidays bookings has increased by a huge amount.
.
We always went during the school holidays, but that's more than likely because in those days, you didn't have to bend over and "take one for the team" in order to book during the School Holidays
(at least not like you have to now !!)