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Gove is barking up the wrong tree with this policy - much better to stop undermining the position of the LEA with his nutjob notions of academies and free schools.
Fuzzhead - despite the free school bit, do you agree with the comments from Katherine Birbalsingh? I must admit, I didn't know who she was when I read her article this morning, but her comments made a lot of sense to me, especially of ensuring that schools made the most of these final weeks. But then a few quick checks, shows that she has her opponents (The Guardian, Janet Eades etc.) Now I understand her final line about Gove!! 😉
Interesting woman - time for more reading!!
Would I take them out at a critical time - No
Would I take them out just to save money - No
Would I take them out if they were behind or struggling - No
Would I know what they were learning and ensure they did some studying during travelling / whilst away - Yes
Why should my freedom to educate / inspire my children be restricted because some abuse the oppurtunity for cheap holidays?
Would all those parents arguing that it's ok for them to take their kids out of school be ok with the teacher clearing off for a week or two?
Sounds great to me, I'll take my 2 weeks at the same time and take little trb touring, he can "catch up" with the teacher when they are in over the summer hols making up their time. A flexible approach to term time is just whats needed. This would be even easier to achieve if teachers only had 24 days holiday like the rest of us but saying that would be trolling 😉
Little trb is coming to France in the last week of term. But as he's in reception I'm fairly confident it won't affect his GCSE's, and beside's the government / LEA have mandated that kids start school at 4 these days which is a tad young for some.
[i]Why should my freedom to educate / inspire my children be restricted because some abuse the oppurtunity for cheap holidays? [/i]
because like all things run by the state or large companies it is more economical/easier to administer a 'one size fits all' approach.
I don't think that I'm a dangerous driver and occasionally break the speed limit when I think it's safe. I wouldn't try and argue the speed limit should somehow be different for me because I know my own driving better than the police if I was pulled up for it though.
This should stop the 'term time holiday' arguements
Turned out to be quite an ironic thread title 😀
teamhurtmore - sorry, not familiar with her, although a quick Google brings up the tagline of "the Tories' favourite teacher", which doesn't exactly endear her to me! Couldn't find any comments from her on the original article?
[i]I wouldn't try and argue the speed limit should somehow be different for me because I know my own driving better than the police if I was pulled up for it though. [/i]
Sounds like you don't belong round here 😉
Stoner - MemberI apologise to TJ for the insult.
unnecessary.
Ta - no worries. I do find it amusing to be called a socialist and it intended to be an insult 🙂
Fuzzhead - yes, I left the Tory's favourite and her line about Gove out for obvious reasons!!! People wouldnt get past that to her actual comments 😉 I posted the link to the Torygraph article earlier.
because like all things run by the state or large companies it is more economical/easier to administer a 'one size fits all' approach.
Funny that. When making desicions about my children I tend to think about whats best for them.
What happens to be
for the government / LEA I couldn't really give two hoots about.more economical/easier to administer
[i]I couldn't really give two hoots about. [/i]
which is fair enough and for educated and middle class parents is probably not a problem. The policy still has to cope with all comners, though, as I said and we are all victims of the lowest common denominator in so much of our lives that I can't see education not going down the same routew for 'policy' type areas.
It's ironic really - teachers are having to produce individual learnign ojectives for each child in a class of thirty now and yet the parents take the view that there's this homogenous education system that treats their child as if ithey're part of a production line and won't be missed.
yet the parents take the view that there's this homogenous education system that treats their child as if ithey're part of a production line and won't be missed
Yep but that'll be the parents who have no real interst in their childs education.
My first step would always be to talk to his teacher and make sure he's up to scratch not struggling with anything etc. It could be quite a bargaining tool as well to encourage them to get stuck in and improve in the months running up to it.
Your child needs education.
Sure does.
Which is why my kids are both at the top end of all of their classes, and I had no compunction about taking them out of school a week early to go to Australia over Christmas. The amount of learning missed = zero; in the last week they would otherwise have been watching films/in a school play/making decorations.
An education is not just about exams, and still less about attendance.
In their three weeks away, the kids learned how to drive a 4x4 on sand (hello Fraser Island), had surfing lessons, climbed Sydney Harbour Bridge, saw a massive glow-worm tunnel in the Blue Mountains, swam with dolphins, sheared a sheep, saw wild dingos/'roos/lizards, abseiled, and did some canyoning. As well as seeing relatives they'd otherwise never have got to see.
I reckon they've learned a bit from their trip, and certainly a load more than they'd have gained from that final pre-Christmas week.
I do find it amusing to be called a socialist and it intended to be an insult
I hereby revoke my apology as I obviously need to work harder on my insults...
Oh dear, I've upset drac. 🙁 Sorry and please don't mark my card!
I remember at my kids school that pupils would be taken out for the day to go to Thorpe Park/Chessington etc., on some flimsy pretext.
Don't teachers have enough to do without investigating/listening to lies of reasons for the absence?
I have to laugh at some of these responses though. 🙄
There also seems to be a lot of envy wrapped up in self righteousness coming from certain people on here. Of course people want to pay less for their holidays, means there's more money for other things including the kids
Ably demonstrated?
God Bless You and the trials and tribulations you must face in your daily life.You wanted to go skiing. You don't need to go skiing. Your child needs education.
We've just taken our two skiing. They didn't [i]need[/i] to go skiing, but they sure as hell got a lot out of it
Where to start??? They were so excited and asked (and had answered, so many questions...)
- Mechanics. How does the cable car work - the idea of it being counterbalanced to reduce the amount of work required. How the skis work.
- Environment. What a glacier is and how the snow doesn't (shouldn't)melt, allowing the glacier to accumulate and advance... and the implications of climate change and retreating glaciers. Avalanches, shelters and barriers
- A few new social skills& a smattering of Italian
So, yes - i'd say it was a very educational holiday for them.
Which is why my kids are both at the top end of all of their classes, and I had no compunction about taking them out of school a week early to go to Australia over Christmas. The amount of learning missed = zero; in the last week they would otherwise have been watching films/in a school play/making decorations.
An education is not just about exams, and still less about attendance.
In their three weeks away, the kids learned how to drive a 4x4 on sand (hello Fraser Island), had surfing lessons, climbed Sydney Harbour Bridge, saw a massive glow-worm tunnel in the Blue Mountains, swam with dolphins, sheared a sheep, saw wild dingos/'roos/lizards, abseiled, and did some canyoning. As well as seeing relatives they'd otherwise never have got to see.
I reckon they've learned a bit from their trip, and certainly a load more than they'd have gained from that final pre-Christmas week.
Best post of the thread.
Education is more important than attending school.
As you said, in this instance, your kids got more education out of school than they would have while in school.
As a parent you have to make those decisions. And you made the right one.
I can't see how your decision would have affected anyone else at your kids school, or had a negative impact on any other kids education.
Turned out to be quite an ironic thread title
Really?
All those who touted their wonderful learning experiences whilst on term-time holidays - are those activities only available during those times, or could they be carried out (if their parents would play the game) during the school holidays?
My folks only took us away during school holidays. We seemed to be able to do stuff during those times - or do you rebels have access to a secret stash of 'educational' stuff?
In isolation, we can all make a good case for taking individual kids out of school. But when you aggregate that up, it becomes unworkable and potentially very selfish for the schools concerned. But still, very fitting for modern "me, myself, I" society......each to their own!
It all reads very much like the moneyed middle classes think they should be allowed to take their kids out of school because they go on educational holidays, but the proles who can't afford quite the same shouldn't be allowed the same leeway.
it will still, more than likely, be cheaper to pay the fine than pay double for the holiday so it wont change much.
[i]In isolation, we can all make a good case for taking individual kids out of school.[/i]
all? I still haven't seen one in this entire thread.
It all reads very much like the moneyed middle classes think they should be allowed to take their kids out of school because they go on educational holidays, but the proles who can't afford quite the same shouldn't be allowed the same leeway.
Ahhh, now we are getting somewhere.
Yes, of course, that is where Gove is headed - because outside of the LEA sector, the schools that Gove wants the moneyed middle classes to send their kids to do these sort of trips anyway don't they...
"Independent" schools have always been big on expeditions etc as part of their programmes of learning and personal development.
Been out all day,and not reading all of this,could somebody give me the salient points please. I take it that there are still two camps,but mostly it is none of our damn business if you want to take your kid out of school. Has the strike action be used to beat the teaching staff yet? That is the way the first couple of pages were going.
For what it is worth,I have no problem with Stoner taking his 5yo to the TdF,especially at that time of year. However; it is a holiday. I reckon I will see perhaps a third of my certificated classes go on holiday between now and exam leave in May. Last year a Mother wrote to me asking me to provide catch up work and wondering what lunchtime would be suitable if her daughter needed some extra help. She had gone to Florida for two weeks on the last day of the Easter hols. BTW; any prospective employer/Uni sees the % of attendance of any pupil. A question,bearing in mind there are probably two very different views on this thread,and I guess this is aimed at you Stoner; will you still be taking him when he is 15? (apologies if the bigger hitters have arrived and covered this)
It all reads very much like the moneyed middle classes think they should be allowed to take their kids out of school because they go on educational holidays, but the proles who can't afford quite the same shouldn't be allowed the same leeway.
And there's no envy or unwarranted judgement of others in that statement is there 🙄
It shouldn't matter what your background is, if you can convince the head teacher that you have reasonable grounds to take your child out of school, be it for educational reasons or the inability to take time off in school holidays or whatever, the childs general attendance is good and they are performing well in school then that is what counts.
duckman, maybe you should have read the rest of the thread through as most people in favour of being able to take their kids out in term time made an effort to point out that missing school at 5 and 15 would have very different consequences.
Stoner; will you still be taking him when he is 15?
stumpyjon (and wallace1492) has covered all my points of view on this throughout the thread with much more decorum and much less frothing than I managed.
One thing thats always going to get a parent's backs up, is criticism of their parenting choices. Up there with 650b, Maverick frames and flatties vs spds in the contentious stakes.
6 pages in 22 hours. Is there a record for the fastest growing thread?
It is all moot anyway, we will be going on work to rule from the Autumn; so by the time you have paid for a tutor in 4 subjects, £150 to get them into the local indy DoE unit (because the DoE is worth UCAS points,dontchaknow) and paid for the football/rugby/hockey training we provide for free. You won't have any money left to go on holiday in term time.*
stumpyjon (and wallace1492) has covered all my points of view on this throughout the thread with much more decorum and much less frothing than I managed.
I got the impression you wanted to ensure that you got the benefits from sending your kid to the school with an opt out should you want to go on HOLIDAY.
* Used to show some of the things us schools (which having read the thread) that are so poor and staffed with such lazy ****less skivers do for your kids (in between their "educational trips.")
No UCAS points for DofE unfortunately, although admissions tutors will note the energy, self-discipline, commitment and capacity for teamwork that is required for completing the award.
As someone who gives permission for pupils to miss school, I would also add that some basic politeness would be nice. You clearly didn't book your ski trip to Canada the day before you leave, so why wait until then to 'ask permission'. That's just plain rude, and not setting a very good example.
And there's no envy or unwarranted judgement of others in that statement is there
Well as one of the moneyed middle classes who did get taken on skiing holidays in term time I think he makes a pretty good point tbh. 😉
My sister is taking her (4 and 7) kids out of school this week so that she can babysit lots of other kids for a close friend's mum's funeral. My sister [i]is[/i] a primary headteacher. (but not their headteacher). Will Mr Gove come round and give her a stern talking to? 😆
gove might enforce ban on removing kids but its holiday companies who are taking the p*** i took my son out off school 1day early few years ago daughter had teacher training day saved myself £1000 on price of my summer hol so £50 fine wont bother me. but think you should only do it relevant to term time, not exam time etc
Ah well, at the end of the day...
Gove is only the [i] English[/i] education minister.
gove might enforce ban on removing kids but its holiday companies who are taking the p*** i took my son out off school 1day early few years ago daughter had teacher training day saved myself £1000 on price of my summer hol so £50 fine wont bother me.
I've put my input into this thread a page or two back with my current teacher head on but could shed some light on this quote from days (black and white days mind you) managing a holiday centre.
The economics of most overseas holiday centres is that they run on a model that barely breaks even and covers the fixed costs in the off and shoulder periods but then makes the entire profits for the year in the peak period. To run a centre you need to lease or run the hotel for the whole season and there are fixed costs in doing so and you feel lucky to cover those with paying guests and even charging much less you struggle to be even half full out of peak season. In peak season we could have been full 3 times over. When taken as a whole throughout the year profits were pretty modest. Making the costs more even throughout the year just would not be econmically viable with the current UK school holiday dates. It's just market forces.
One thought might be to look again at when schools have their holidays - could different counties be at slightly different times therefore extending the holiday season and changing the cost structure of holidays. Working around public exams might be a hassle though.
I tried to read all the posts and got bored. So I hope I don't repeat what's been said.
My 11 year old is a great skier and can ski black runs . From mostly taking a week off during term time. It was mine and my wife's decision. Next year he's in big school and we won't do that because of school commitments
He works hard in school, takes extra tuition and I believe it's worth it. Having done this, he can take this skill going forwards and has given him huge confidence.
This year we took the children from Thurs to Thurs over half term missing Friday. The new headmaster would not allow it. We went anyway. It saved a huge chunk of cost. This is just as Andywoods says.
Going to the original post - that's great. Take your son to the TDF. He'll never forget it. And let's face it, he'll get a better view than trying to watch road cycling in the Olympics
when it comes to school holidays , France is divided into zones , the 3 zones have different holidays , except in the summer and xmas I think . it was done to avoid traffic on the roads .
surely a similar system would mean there is less demand for holidays and might bring the prices down a little bit , making it more affordable for people to go on holiday ?
Can someone tell me where these holidays are that cost the same in and out of term time please? I'd really appreciate it. Assuming we're not talking about camping in Birmingham or something.
Any holiday I've ever looked at that wasn't entirely self-catering and in a tent (and don't get me wrong, we do those too), has been *at least* double the price out of term time. Some skiing holidays will treble in price during school holidays especially those that are popular with families.
Thanks.
And let's face it, he'll get a better view than trying to watch road cycling in the Olympics
applied for lots of tickets (triathlon, track cycling, hockey). got none.
Can someone tell me where these holidays are that cost the same in and out of term time please? I'd really appreciate it. Assuming we're not talking about camping in Birmingham or something.
Any holiday I've ever looked at that wasn't entirely self-catering and in a tent (and don't get me wrong, we do those too), has been *at least* double the price out of term time. Some skiing holidays will treble in price during school holidays especially those that are popular with families.
Thanks.
[url] http://www.secretdestinations.com/one-price-all-year-round-villas.html [/url]
As a parent of two boys, both at primary school, it amuses me greatly when parents bleat on and on about the cost of going on holiday.
Rather than boring on about how expensively is and how unfair [b]it[/b] is why not go see your GP and get a strong dose of PTFU. You aren't [b]entitled[/b] to a foreign holiday, it's not owed to you.
Back in the day, when going abroad was genuinely expensive all the time, our parents took us on holiday in the uk, camping usually. What's wrong with doing that? It's perfectly possible to have an ace time for not too much money if you use your nut, plan in advance and don't expect to live a lifestyle that's clearly beyond your means.
Is my memory failing, or didn't TJ argue elsewhere for 'discretionary' obedience to traffic regulation measures?
The problem is the prevailing "don't tell me what I can or can't do, i'll do what the f*** I like, it isn't hurting anyone" attitude in society ... when I was at school people had more respect for the education system & teachers, people in positions of authority in general actually ... society has become increasingly self-centred in pretty much all areas ...
'discretionary' obedience to traffic regulation measures
Society is generally too stupid for anything discretionary to work properly.
Most people can't even manage to do things they're asked/expected to do, so expecting them to make appropriate decisions using their own head is laughable.
"Discretion" = "Do what I like", in most peoples narrow, selfish little world.
[i] http://www.secretdestinations.com/one-price-all-year-round-villas.html [/i]
Excellent. Many thanks. Got any skiing holiday stuff? 😉
ditch_jockey - MemberIs my memory failing, or didn't TJ argue elsewhere for 'discretionary' obedience to traffic regulation measures?
Not that it has any relevance at all but when its my safety at risk then yes I will break traffic law. I will not do it for my convenience nor to save a few pennies. As regards taking your children out of school - I have no problem if its for a good reason - but merely saving money is not good reason to me.