[Closed] This Obesity Thing

The disease thing bothers me, it takes responsibility away.

No it doesn't. It's a mental illness and has to be dealt with as such.

Surely diseases are caught and transmitted?

Nope.

Why are people commuting further? Why are kids going to clubs, rather than playing outside? Why are the kids being ferried about, instead of making their own way? Why are kids being looked after by child minders

1. Because I live in the countryside
2. He's 5
3. He's 5
4. He's 5, the wife works too.

It may be harsh but as others have said, nobody came out of Belsen fat and nobody got fat working on the Burma railway.

I didn't study history, but I'm pretty sure there was no marketing of sugary smoothies, or pressure to get to work on time in Belsen either.

Can we make a diet thread version of Godwin's Law?

Obesity is cultural.
We have become sedentary in our lives and convenience foods rule all.

Which is why we need systemic change, not bullying of individuals.

There is also the cardiovascular benefits to exercise so I'm stunned some people have come out with the 'exercise doesn't work' chestnut!

Exercise doesn't work as the primary means of weight control. Diet must come first.

With regard to exercise I'm not convinced that the government's '30 mins of gentle exercise a day' sends the right message.
How many of the stunning physiques seen at London 2012 were achieved with 30 minutes of gentle exercise?

Yes, let's set unrealistic targets and goals. That'll work.

If you read robdob's post and don't feel a slight twinge of human compassion then basically you're just not a very nice person.

Perhaps I could offer you some simple advice on how not to be an arsehole: 'judge less, love more'.

Probably not that simple for you though I imagine. 😉

1. Because I live in the countryside
2. He's 5
3. He's 5
4. He's 5, the wife works too.

People, not you specifically.

as somebody said earlier, if obesity is a disease let's infect Africa with it.... impossible.

Wow what a monumentally stupid and crass thing to say. Thanks for repeating it as I missed it earlier.

So it's a mental illness now, not too many pages ago it was a disease... like somebody can get struck down with obesity?
Haha, total b**locks, it's the same feeble mindedness that allows people to become gambling addicts, alcoholics etc etc.... pathetic people with pathetic excuses.

Just paraphrasing robdob:

The weird thing is that I'm a positive person and pretty relaxed, but when I wasn't on heroin it made me feel really low (not clinical depression) and without thinking I'd go out and get a fix cos that's what made me feel better. Looking back I think this is quite scary, and I can see why people who, even though normally sensible and clever like me, get addicted to smack without even thinking about it.

whoever said sugar was like a drug earlier in the thread, you've nailed one of the roots of the problem

I'm informed enough to know that if a product needs a food label you shouldn't be eating it

That's a bit daft isn't it?
A bag of rice has a label on it, doesn't mean it's poison

You are right and I was being a bit extreme.Might have been better if I had said if its processed its not likely to be good for you.

Haha, total b**locks, it's the same feeble mindedness that allows people to become gambling addicts, alcoholics etc etc.... pathetic people with pathetic excuses.

just FYI, you're being a bit of a dick here

Haha, total b**locks, it's the same feeble mindedness that allows people to become gambling addicts, alcoholics etc etc.... pathetic people with pathetic excuses.

Perhaps I could offer you some simple advice on how not to be an arsehole: 'judge less, love more'.

Probably not that simple for you though I imagine.

Might have been better if I had said if its processed its not likely to be good for you.

Is rice not processed ?

Thanks grum. 🙂

When I see anyone even remotely fat out running I want to cheer them on, encourage them to keep at it because I appreciated every positive word.

The day I fitted into a medium shirt was one of the best days ever.

i've skipped ahead 6 pages, so forgive me if its been said,

a big step would be preventative action early.

after the age of say 12, a medical is required every 3 years, if your X amount overweight, then your (or parents) personal TAX rate goes up by X amount,
if your fit and healthy, you tax rate goes down.
therefore those with a more likleyhood of using the nhs for obesity related problems pay.
not unlike the extra TAX on cigs they "say" is going on NHS spending.
of course putting a TAX on food would also be a way, but why penalise those on high calorie food but exercise enough to burn it off, even if its high fat or high sugar.

I've just realised what this reminds me of:

Haha, total b**locks, it's the same feeble mindedness that allows people to become gambling addicts, alcoholics etc etc.... pathetic people with pathetic excuses.

[img] [/img]

Perhaps I could offer you some simple advice on how not to be an arsehole: 'judge less, love more'.
Probably not that simple for you though I imagine.

[img] [/img]

When I see anyone even remotely fat out running I want to cheer them on, encourage them to keep at it because I appreciated every positive word.

Wrong approach I'm afraid - what they need is for people to shout 'EAT LESS, MOVE MORE, FATTY' in their faces at every opportunity, as clearly they haven't yet put enough effort in.

Edit: never been compared to Russel Brand before. Didn't see that exchange but neither of them come off well do they.

Haha, total b**locks, it's the same feeble mindedness that allows people to become gambling addicts, alcoholics etc etc.... pathetic people with pathetic excuses.

Repeat those words to my face when you see me next. Please.

after the age of say 12, a medical is required every 3 years, if your X amount overweight, then your (or parents) personal TAX rate goes up by X amount,

There's evidence showing that obesity/health is linked to poverty. I suspect your plan may backfire.

Wow, some pretty nasty comments on this thread!

Seems like it would be better if we joined forces. Yes there's a bit if personal responsibility that needs to happen, people need. To understand that eating loads of shit will be bad, But the food companies need to change as well at the same time. If they can make all that amazing advertising work to make people want the good stuff then that would have such an amazing effect

I knew an obese cardiac surgeon - in fact it probably killed him in the end. He wasn't stupid, he knew far better than anyone here the precise effects of obesity on the heart, he was trying to take as much exercise as he could (I built him a couple of bikes suitable for his weight, for instance), he tried to heat as healthily as he could.

But, in the end, he couldn't get the weight off.

It's a mental illness and has to be dealt with as such.

For those with hormonal problems you have my sympathy, low testosterone levels, hypothyroidism, diabetes etc etc is a genuine barrier to being able to do some of the above.

Thanks for posting that. When I became obese it was bloomin' hard to find any cycling clothing that fitted.

A question for MrSmith - as I fall into the above category of having a health condition, should I wear a label or special clothing to ward off any insults from those who are ignorant/sit on a high horse?

It really isn't. It's a survival trait. Being skinny is a mental illness

You could argue that overeating, in the current environment of easily available food, is no longer the survival trait it might once have been.

Robdob, I've offered that kind of straight advice to plenty of drug addicts and alcoholics over the years.
I used to work as a custody medic and people with substance abuse problems formed the bulk of my clientele unfortunately.
When asked why they did what they did or why they choose to live their life all the excuses would pour forth, bad childhood, wrong crowd, lost my job, marriage break up etc etc.... does every divorcée become a drug addict then or every abused child end up a criminal?... Of course not.

It's about choice, trying to say it isn't takes responsibility away and allows people to blame their problems on somebody else and just carry on as before.
When asked why they don't go into rehab and have a managed withdrawal to come off drugs\alcohol the reply would always be the same "it's hard".... of course it's hard you plank, you've managed to get your body dependent on a substance it doesn't want to give up now!

Weak people always take the path of least resistance, be that pouring another drink or 'comfort' eating.

You could argue that overeating, in the current environment of easily available food, is no longer the survival trait it might once have been.

These threads are great for identifying the dicks on here 😀

Not sure I can add much more really.

It's somewhat shocking and saddening for me to see how little empathy there is for a significant proportion of the population.

Of course if you are determined enough you can get to whatever body mass you want and make intelligent choices ( through detailed research)

But there is generally a lack of education on real healthy eating, poor/wrong guidance and a food industry that is not controlled. Until these issues are addressed the problem will get worse no matter how many times some posters on here tell people to "sort themselves out"

It's about choice, trying to say it isn't takes responsibility away and allows people to blame their problems on somebody else and just carry on as before.

Amazingly enough, it's possible both to show compassion/try to understand the underlying reasons why people do harmful things to themselves, AND expect people to take personal responsibility.

It's not an either/or black and white choice between the two.

Robdob, I've offered that kind of straight advice to plenty of drug addicts and alcoholics over the years.

It's not 'offering straight advice', it's being an arsehole lacking in basic human compassion.

Yes emsz - that starts to approach the heart of the matter. We live in an obeseogenic culture driven by advertisers and marketers, the whole customer and individual is always right capitalist society. Not to completely remove personal responsibility, the social world is at fault and individuals are being told conflicting things about how to manage their weight, at all points being sold products that doom them to failure.

Hugely complex issue. Yes there is a basic premise around 'eat less, move more', but there is a much more complicated interaction around the 4 main 'lifestyle' factors of diet, exercise, alcohol, and smoking.

Addressing smoking indicates that cultural / societal change is possible, but that was achieved using a range of fiscal, legislative, and public communications mechanisms. It has slowly resulted in changing 'social norms' relating to smoking (although this is not the case for all social groups).

The challenge is that it was easier to have a single hard-hitting message re 'smoking kills'. It clearly stated that just one fag was bad, there was no complexity about '5 would be OK if they are low tar, but only 1 a day if its high tar etc etc'.

Compare that single hard-hitting message with the challenges of communicating re diet and exercise. '5 a day' and '5 x 30' are more complex. Also, there is problematic message which equates 'thin' with 'healthy'.

The vast majority (about 70%) don't do the bare minimum of exercise, nor consume a healthy diet, nor limit their alcohol level to an appropriate level. That means that most people are acting in unhealthy ways that cause obesity (and associated illnesses) so this is the 'social norm'.

It is not an easy or straightforward task to address this, and yes much more needs to be done by everyone: individuals, business, and government. But there are many of us who are working long and hard on this, and have been for many years!

t's about choice, trying to say it isn't takes responsibility away and allows people to blame their problems on somebody else and just carry on as before.
When asked why they don't go into rehab and have a managed withdrawal to come off drugs\alcohol the reply would always be the same "it's hard".... of course it's hard you plank, you've managed to get your body dependent on a substance it doesn't want to give up now!

Weak people always take the path of least resistance, be that pouring another drink or 'comfort' eating.

Did you try being nice to these people who are only obeying 1000's of years of basic hard wired reflex actions ? After all it's society/advertising/government that enables their addiction so it's hardly their fault. Did the hug and an A4 fact sheet outlining the benefits of giving up crystal meth not work?
🙄

But there is generally a lack of education on real healthy eating

I know drinking a bottle of red wine a night isn't a great idea. I've done it on and off for years because I like it.

Fags, alcohol, drugs, food... the overwhelming majority of people know when they're being unhealthy but they enjoy it. Being healthy isn't any fun at all.

As for exercise! You have to be an idiot to do anything you don't need to do. Or a masochist.

I've been part of a minority that people are often prejudged and generalised about but i'm a rational enough person to see that I don't fall into the category thats causing the pant wetting. It seems if you are a fat person,for whatever reason then you're so defensive that you cant see that this generalisation is true..

The majority of fat people are fat because they eat too much and dont move enough because its easier than MAKING yourself adopt a different lifestyle.

Plus how can a fat parent look their child in the eye and try and be taken seriously about weight issues. I see lots of people expecting their child to develop the strength of character to make their own path to good health.

Take responsibility and if thats the road you've put yourself on then more power to you.
If you're fat because of some factor beyond your control then I wish you all the best with it.

MrSmith earlier:

[img] [/img]

Seems like you and deviant would get on really well actually. Perhaps you could get together and shout EAT LESS MOVE MORE at some fatties some time, and discuss how incredibly awesome you are?

The majority of fat people are fat because they eat too much and dont move enough

Wow, really? Why has no-one ever mentioned this before?

I'm not sure about this, but I think that maybe the majority of alcoholics drink too much, can anyone confirm? I think this could be a really vital insight into the problem.

Grum, I've got all the compassion in the world for people struck down with cancer, senselessly attacked in the street etc etc but I draw the line at feeling anything for people who choose their poison and then moan when they get fat, become addicted to drugs etc...

Perhaps you could get together and shout EAT LESS MOVE MORE and some fatties some time

Grum, I've got all the compassion in the world for people struck down with cancer, senselessly attacked in the street

So you only have compassion for people with cancer or who are senselessly attacked in the street? I think you've misunderstood the concept.

and how about people who've been trained for all their childhood, by parents who know no better, to eat huge piles of fattening food? sympathy for them? what about people who aren't that smart and get sucked in by marketing and adverts?

you see where you're drawing the line, it's in the wrong place

Grum, I've got all the compassion in the world for people struck down with cancer,

what about people who developed cancer from eating too much red meat or even smoking?

Hands up, you win, you got me there.
Feel better now? Have a donut to celebrate, go on have another you know you want to.

Grum, I've got all the compassion in the world for people struck down with cancer,

Is your sympathay reserved for people with cancers not caused by their lifestyles?

Whilst there is an element of "choice" denying the influence of food marketing suggests there is billions being wasted on advertising and lobbying.

No Grum, you took my post literally.

The post was about genuine misfortune, when somebody develops a disease through no fault of their own or is unlucky to have inherited a hereditary condition. There is no choice made in those situations.
Likewise being on the receiving end of somebody's dangerous driving, being mugged in the street, the kind of thing you can't control.
My heart goes out to people in that kind of situation, stuffing your face and getting fat is not the same.

mrsmith gracious in defeat........ 😉

The reason they don't poor millions into marketing tofu is it's bloody horrible. Chocolate on the other hand isn't.

The post was about genuine misfortune, when somebody develops a disease through no fault of their own or is unlucky to have inherited a hereditary condition. There is no choice made in those situations.

What if someone was abused as a child and turned to drugs as a coping mechanism? Pathetic scum not deserving of any sympathy I suppose.

Is the kid whose parents are both drug addicts deserving of any sympathy if he ends up becoming one too? No, thought not.