[Closed] This Obesity Thing

Rusty Shackleford - Member
IanW - Member
Change came first with education; there's sugar in fruit juice
What the deuce?! You'll be telling me there's fat in butter next

Obviously not common knowledge though is it, as well as being such a witty sage you must be smarter than the average dude.

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that a couple of generations are essentially screwed, except for a small number of people on the margins who will respond positively to public health messages or dire warnings from their GPs.

The obesity epidemic is now so prevalent it is self-perpetuating, with overweight body image now reinforced as normal in young adulthood, and a virtually intractable cycle of depressive illness and the resultant apathy in older people.

My view is that the state almost has to take over the nutrition and exercise of the under-15s - give them heavily subsidised breakfast, lunch and dinner if necessary and greatly increase the amount of exercise in the curriculum. Then perhaps we can save them from the malign influence of their parents and peers.

I was incredibly lucky to find a way to motivate myself to exercise in my mid-30s. A pair of my old trousers arrived in the garage for rags this weekend - eight inches bigger waist than my current ones. The weird thing was, I had no real idea just how big I'd got.

My view is that the state almost has to take over the nutrition and exercise of the under-15s - give them heavily subsidised breakfast, lunch and dinner if necessary and greatly increase the amount of exercise in the curriculum. Then perhaps we can save them from the malign influence of their parents and peers.

Is it even worth worrying about?

In my teens/early twenties i was skinny - seriously skinny, with a waist of <24" and weighed about 7.5 stone. In my mid twenties i started drinking more often, from thursday evening til sunday evening. Basically i would blow my wages on booze then spend what was left on cheap food til thursday night and the cycle goes on. Looking at pics of myself from back then i piled the weight on, right little fat faced git. When i was around 32 i discovered cycling and the weight started to slowly drop. It's only in the last five yrs since i stopped doing the re-enactments (with the associated heavy drinking) and riding more that my weight has stabilised. Whilst my actual weight hasn't gone down too much its muscle rather than flab nowadays. I still think i need to lose some weight but MsD is horrified by that idea.

I can only assume you are either young or ill informed or perhaps both

Old enough to remember there only being 2 fat kids in my year at school (what's the percentage now?)
Informed enough to understand what the small print on a food label means, make basic healthy lifestyle choices and be 6ft and less than 70kg all my life.

I can only assume you either lack self control or are a corpulent face stuffer or perhaps both.
There is a slight chance you are a 'feeder'.

Is it even worth worrying about?

Of course. Even if I bring up my kids to be healthy, and they do the same for theirs, their economic prospects and their healthcare system will be crippled by the cost of a huge number of people in their 40s,50s and 60s with obesity-related illnesses such as type II diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

As a former chubster - 5'9" and over 17 stone, I can speak with some experience. For me it came down to a realisation that I didn't want to look like that, and a small health scare. I wanted to be around for my kids.

Bought a bike, and started riding short distances. Being a competitive person I bought a bike computer and tried to beat my best average speeds and longest rides. At the same time, started to cut out the crap (crisps every day) and the weight just fell off.

Now sub 12 stone and running around 1 hr 35 min half marathons. Fitter than I've been for 25 years. Sadly it does come down mostly to self control in terms of eating, combined with some gentle (and increasingly harder) exercise.

I've kept a pair of size 42 inch waist trousers to keep me motivated. 12 inches bigger than current trousers.

Of course. Even if I bring up my kids to be healthy, and they do the same for theirs, their economic prospects and their healthcare system will be crippled by the cost of a huge number of people in their 40s,50s and 60s with obesity-related illnesses such as type II diabetes, heart disease and cancer.

Predictable arseholes are predictable.

You're probably right, certainly I think for the current generation of adults. I still hold a flicker of hope for today's kids, which fades every time I see a muffin-top on a 13-year-old or a kid being stuffed with a burger and fries.

Weight/obesity threads are a great way of finding out who all the ***** on the forum are.

Has it been mentioned yet that it looks as if obesity is levelling off? Which makes sense if you think about it:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/obesity_its_worse_than_we_thought_bullshit/

IanW - Member
Obviously not common knowledge though is it, as well as being such a witty sage you must be smarter than the average dude.

[img] [/img]

Perhaps those that can't be arsed are slowly being eliminated from the gene pool. Darwin...he was a scamp, eh!

Well, it's clearly printed on the product label, so one doesn't have to be smarter than the average dude to figure it out.

It's "natural" sugar and "there's no fat" and "fat is bad".

Perhaps those that can't be arsed are slowly being eliminated from the gene pool. Darwin...he was a scamp, eh!

You don't understand how ill health through obesity, or evolution, works.

My view is that the state almost has to take over the nutrition and exercise of the under-15s

Hmm well look what happened when Jamie Olive got schools to provide healthy food - some parents passed fast food over to their kids.

So yeah it's an education thing but need to somehow get the parents to instill good habits into their kids at a young age. Must admit I have arguments with my wife for being more lax with our 3 year old than I'd choose to be but he's very active and in healthy shape so try not to make too big a deal out of it. He'll always do plenty of exercise with us so that's half the battle.

Weight/obesity threads are a great way of finding out who all the ***** on the forum are.

These an * in blimps

Rusty Shackleford - Member
IanW - Member
Obviously not common knowledge though is it, as well as being such a witty sage you must be smarter than the average dude.
Well, it's clearly printed on the product label, so one doesn't have to be smarter than the average dude to figure it out.

Perhaps those that can't be arsed are slowly being eliminated from the gene pool. Darwin...he was a scamp, eh!

These an * in blimps

You're assuming that everyone who disagrees with your "toughen up sweetie" approach is fat. You are wrong.

Has it been mentioned yet that it looks as if obesity is levelling off? Which makes sense if you think about it:

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/obesity_its_worse_than_we_thought_bullshit/

Quite curious about the author of that piece, Rob Lyons. He has a lot of pieces which are very supportive of the food industry, and vitriolic about any moves to inhibit their ability to serve up what they want to the public. May well be genuinely held views, of course.

Graphs showing short-term trends may be helpful in evaluating long-term predictions (2050 levels), but I'm not convinced.

miketually - Member
Weight/obesity threads are a great way of finding out who all the ***** on the forum are.

What word for "fatty" triggered the swear filter there?

What word for "fatty" triggered the swear filter there?

Well done on proving his point so succinctly, 'legend'.

You're assuming that everyone who disagrees with your "toughen up sweetie" approach is fat. You are wrong.

? I think it's you who is doing the assuming.

MrSmith - Member
I can only assume you are either young or ill informed or perhaps both
Old enough to remember there only being 2 fat kids in my year at school (what's the percentage now?)
Informed enough to understand what the small print on a food label means, make basic healthy lifestyle choices and be 6ft and less than 70kg all my life.

[b]I can only assume you either lack self control or are a corpulent face stuffer or perhaps both.
There is a slight chance you are a 'feeder[/b]

Wrong again Mr Smith. 72.5 Kg and 5 10. I race road, cyclo cross and train 3000-5000 miles a year. I'm informed enough to know that if a product needs a food label you shouldn't be eating it. That does not mean I look down at the majority of the population that are getting more and more over weight. It is a huge issue, there has been poor government advice and there are massive industries in food, dieting and gyms that are very happy with the way things are.

What word for "fatty" triggered the swear filter there?

Guess again.

Looking at the sides being taken here won't show you who is overweight, it just reveals attitudes.

MrSmith plays the part of an utter tosser with great aplomb yet again. Bravo!

It is interesting that during that there WW2 due to rationing and more management of the food supply by government that health of the poorest actually improved.

This is basically what is needed (within limits). Our genes say "eat as much as you can!" and we have a near limitless supply of fats and sugars. Its natural.

Improve transport links to increase movement, put money into sports/leisure centres and the like and do some actual regulation of the completely unregulated food industry (for a start stop Tesco putting loads of polyphosphate and water in their 'organic' chicken, grr!). Encourage people up and out.

I would sooner my tax money be spent on helping people get fit and lead happier lives than deal with the diabetes and weight-related illnesses. Prevention is better than cure.

Wrong again Mr Smith. 72.5 Kg and 5 10

Bit of a fatty then.

I'm informed enough to know that if a product needs a food label you shouldn't be eating it. That does not mean I look down at the majority of the population that are getting more and more over weight. It is a huge issue, there has been poor government advice and there are massive industries in food, dieting and gyms that are very happy with the way things are.

So it's the governments and food industries fault then?
Well there is more choice of healthy foods available to me now than 30years ago and they even have gyms in all sort of places and running shoes are readily available (I see lots of people wearing shiny blue and white sportswear on every street corner) so the mechanisms to enable an individual to control their weight are easier to access than ever before, plus nutritional information is a click away on the Internet yet it's still somebody else's fault?

Prevention is better than cure.

And a damn sight cheaper!

I'm informed enough to know that if a product needs a food label you shouldn't be eating it

A bag of rice has a label on it, doesn't mean it's poison.

This U-Turn in dietary advice has had catastrophic consequences. It is no coincidence that obesity has gone up ten fold since diet advice was changed.

Excess fat is caused by calories going in being higher than calories going out though, so this doesn't really work. Yes sugar is bad but if you're eating less calories than you expend you're still going to lose weight. Just as eating too much good stuff ie fat and protein will make you fat.

MrSmith plays the part of an utter tosser with great aplomb yet again. Bravo!

Happy to keep pressing those angst buttons. It's like feeding a fat kid donuts, they keep wanting more.

Sorry poor analogy 😳

Just as eating too much good stuff ie fat and protein will make you fat.

It's "natural" sugar and "there's no fat" and "fat is bad".

Those with vested interests have been very successful in covering up the truth about sugar and painting fat as the bad guy. At least, up until a couple of years ago...these days the media is awash with the info, so to try and claim ignorance is a bit rich.

You don't understand how ill health through obesity, or evolution, works.

I do understand how "eat less, move more" works for 99% (actual figure may vary) of the people who need to loose weight.

Are you suggesting that orange juice is good for you or your weight?

Well there is more choice of healthy foods available to me now than 30years ago and they even have gyms in all sort of places and running shoes are readily available (I see lots of people wearing shiny blue and white sportswear on every street corner) so the mechanisms to enable an individual to control their weight are easier to access than ever before, plus nutritional information is a click away on the Internet yet it's still somebody else's fault?

You're suggesting that 40 million individuals have all individually decided to be fat and that they should all decide to be thin. Does the widespread change not suggest systemic societal causes? And if the causes are at a society/cultural level, and there are negative effects on society, should not the solution come from a societal level also?

Excess fat is caused by calories going in being higher than calories going out

Except it's not. In December, I ate an additional 25000 calories just in mince pies, while exercising less. I gained 200 grams.

Excess fat is caused by calories going in being higher than calories going out though

Yes, just like how the cause of crime is criminals - why do people need to over complicate matters by looking into them on a deeper level? 😕

In other news, I've worked out the answer to unemployment: more jobs. Simple eh, idiots?

Happy to keep pressing those angst buttons. It's like feeding a fat kid donuts, they keep wanting more.

Sorry poor analogy

If only you were as funny as davidtaylforth.

You're suggesting that 40 million individuals have all individually decided to be fat and that they should all decide to be thin. Does the widespread change not suggest systemic societal causes? And if the causes are at a society/cultural level, and there are negative effects on society, should not the solution come from a societal level also?

I'm not suggesting that at all.
I'm suggesting that an awful lot of people lack the ability to make decisions about their health, apathy and a general laziness mean a lack of accountability regarding their own well being , it's easier to do nothing and blame somebody/something else.
Society/the state could press for change but ultimately it's down to the individual whether they take the donut or the rice cake that's offered to them. Whatever they choose it's down to them not society.

But you know that's not correct, and I know that's not correct...how come tubby over there doesn't know?
Those with vested interests have been very successful in covering up the truth about sugar and painting fat as the bad guy. At least, up until a couple of years ago...these days the media is awash with the info, so to try and claim ignorance is a bit rich.

The media is awash with info about tumeric curing cancer, smoothies being good for detoxing, and adverts for diet soft drinks. Popular slimming groups still take a low fat approach (low fat yoghurts are free on Slimming World, despite containing sugar, as long as they're eaten with fruit, which contains sugar). People like Gillian McKeith are all over the press and TV.

I do understand how "eat less, move more" works for 99% (actual figure may vary) of the people who need to loose weight.

Except it doesn't.

Well done on proving his point so succinctly, 'legend'.

I aim to please

Except it doesn't.

I think it just needs people to shout it really loud all the time. That'll sort it.

Self control ah yes, the easy solution to everything. You should start a rehab centre or something. Tell heroin addicts that the just need self control.

I don't think people realise how much our brains are affected by sugar. It's like a drug, but most of us are users and there are fully legal dealers on every street and in every office and we are bombarded by adverts showing people enjoying the drug we crave.

It's no wonder people find it hard, really.

I'm suggesting that an awful lot of people lack the ability to make decisions about their health, apathy and a general laziness mean a lack of accountability regarding their own well being , it's easier to do nothing and blame somebody/something else.

And why are they making these decisions? Why are they driving to work, rather than walking or cycling? Why are they buying an Innocent smoothie and thinking it's a healthy option?

Society/the state could press for change but ultimately it's down to the individual whether they take the donut or the rice cake that's offered to them. Whatever they choose it's down to them not society.

But the individual is influenced by education, marketing, cultural pressures, poor journalism, badly labelled food, poor infrastructure, government lobbying groups, and a host of other factors.

I'm 35 and 11 stone. That's appreciably heavier than a couple of years ago as a result of more sitting down, less bicycling and slightly more beer. It's not ideal.

While I'm no fan of junk food, I [choose to] exercise precious little control over what I eat. Staying basically slim(ish) relies on restlessness, trotting up stairs, no car, gardening and as much biking as I can get.

I sympathise with anyone who finds keeping their weight basically healthy a challenge - it must be grim.

Why are they driving to work, rather than walking or cycling?

Because it's 20 miles and they have kids, therefore can't spend an extra 1 hour per day cycling as they've got to take kids to Judo, swimming, pick up from child minder etc etc ?

I used to be one of those people who used to think "why not buy a salad, mr Chubster?" when I saw obviously fat people.
But I've been on the brink of getting to the same place so I have sympathy. Even though I cycle a bit I went up to 16st (I'm only 5'7"). I only thought "I better do something" Xmas 2012 when I realised I was struggling to get up the stairs at home without getting out of breath.
The weird thing is that I'm a positive person and pretty relaxed, but when I felt I was fat it made me feel really low (not clinical depression) and without thinking I'd go out and get a KFC or a load of chocs cos that's what made me feel better. Looking back I think this is quite scary, and I can see why people who, even though normally sensible and clever like me, get quite overweight without even thinking about it.
The added problem is that as you get bigger your stomach gets used to huge amounts of food, so you need more to make you feel full. If you eat smaller portions the hunger pangs can be very painful and it's very very very difficult to start a proper calorie controlled diet.
My experience of losing weight from that position is a story of the most difficult thing I've done in my life. I remember going out running, not able to run more than 30 seconds at a time without collapsing, in the freezing cold, in floods of tears, chanting to myself "I don't want to be fat" over and over again to keep me going.
I've felt the pain of how difficult it can be to lose weight when you've gone so far over what weight you should be, and know anyone else who has never been through that really has no idea how difficult it can be.

Because it's 20 miles and they have kids, therefore can't spend an extra 1 hour per day cycling as they've got to take kids to Judo, swimming, pick up from child minder etc etc ?

Why are people commuting further? Why are kids going to clubs, rather than playing outside? Why are the kids being ferried about, instead of making their own way? Why are kids being looked after by child minders?

It may be harsh but as others have said, nobody came out of Belsen fat and nobody got fat working on the Burma railway.

It's a simplistic approach but it does work, in the two instances above there was massive calorie reduction and hard labour.... the 'move more, eat less' maxim taken to extremes.

In real life this means not kidding yourself that you eat a healthy diet when you don't
To actually eat a healthy diet makes you feel like a freak when you're around colleagues who are eating normal\convenient\bad food, or when you're the only one at the restaurant that declines dessert.

Likewise exercise is great and I've never seen so much apologist nonsense as on this thread, shameful on a cycling forum.
Exercise burns calories, not much at the time but some nonetheless, more importantly your baseline metabolic rate (how fast your body burns calories) is raised, often for hours afterwards.
Following on from this, exercise generally sees an increase in lean mass, sometimes in absolute terms and sometimes as a percentage of body composition. Lean mass is muscle mass by the way and it is the most calorie hungry form of tissue in the body, it takes bugger all calories to maintain fat but lots more just to maintain muscle, therefore increase your lean mass and your body will automatically burn more calories than it did before, even at rest.

There is also the cardiovascular benefits to exercise so I'm stunned some people have come out with the 'exercise doesn't work' chestnut!

For those with hormonal problems you have my sympathy, low testosterone levels, hypothyroidism, diabetes etc etc is a genuine barrier to being able to do some of the above.
If you are overweight get your Dr to do some blood tests, if everything comes back fine then you're just doing things wrong with regard to diet and exercise. At least you'll know.

The disease thing bothers me, it takes responsibility away.
Surely diseases are caught and transmitted?.... as somebody said earlier, if obesity is a disease let's infect Africa with it.... impossible.
Obesity is cultural.
We have become sedentary in our lives and convenience foods rule all.
Look at cultures where food is harder to come by and is found in it's natural form and you'll see less obesity.

A few people have made the point about the prevalence of carbs in our meals, this is true for food you haven't prepared yourself, unfortunately petrol station sandwiches and ready meals are full of carbs both simple and complex.
If however you take some time to prepare your own food you can tip the ratio back toward the meal being more protein heavy instead, as with most matters regarding tackling obesity it requires effort, how much do you really want to lose weight?

Somebody wanted eating plans, this one is from a few years ago when I was at most skinny, after years of weightlifting I took up kick boxing but needed to lose weight to become a middle weight as I was far too heavy for my height.

Breakfast: cereal, usually 2 weetabix with semi skimmed milk and no sugar.
Lunch: sandwich, not fussy, may be shop bought or sometimes freshly made.
Dinner: rice with veg and chicken or pasta with veg and tuna... You get the idea, it was pretty spartan.

I drank loads of water (2-3 litres a day), enjoyed the odd of cup of tea or coffee and only had alcohol at the Weekend.
If eating out I would have a starter and main and skip dessert.

I'm a little more relaxed about things now so you can chuck the odd can of coke in there today and sometimes a beer in the evening if I feel adventurous!

With regard to exercise I'm not convinced that the government's '30 mins of gentle exercise a day' sends the right message.
How many of the stunning physiques seen at London 2012 were achieved with 30 minutes of gentle exercise?... If the results don't come people will become despondent and stop exercising, don't sugar coat it.
People need to know that shedding the pounds is going to be hard but the results will be worth it and it'll happen quicker the more effort you put in.