Approaching the north end of Southwark Bridge. Left hand feed is queued to turn left. Right hand feed is queued to turn right on to Upper Thames street - two lanes with a cycle lane on the inside. I'm coming down the middle and as I reach the front, the lights change, so I carry on into the junction and stick my arm out for as strong a signal as possible.
I begin to turn right and across, to get to the bike lane.
Next thing I know, someone on my right is leaning on the horn. Glancing right, I can see a taxi plowing across my path, forcing me into the path of a lorry that has decided to turn right from the left-hand feeding queue. Just for a second, I thought I was about to become yet another squashed London cyclist.
Further on, when I caught up to the taxi at the lights, we had a, er, conversation.
As his final argument was "**** off you old ****", I backfisted the bodywork and left him with a dent that will need repairing.
Amusingly enough, the cyclist behind me actually said "Leave him, it's not worth it"...
1: The north end of Southwark bridge is really dangerous, if you cycle it at peak periods, take extreme care.
2: Though cars are heavy, their bodywork is not very thick.
Sounds unpleasant and annoying. Hope your hand doesn't hurt too much 😉
I hit a Ford Focus once and spent a week with the imprint of my glove on my knuckles.
I usually find a foot in wing mirror works and is less painful on yer hand.
If I get into a Black cab in London, I usually say take me to <insert> and dont kill any cyclists. Most then either moan or are dead laid back and chilled. If they moan I pay them the exact fair and explain they lost the tip moaning about cyclists 😉 hurt them in the pocket.
oooh I'm sounding quite antagonistic... oops.
I spent the weekend in London a couple of weeks ago - just being a tommy tourist mainly.
Gotta say, you lot live an edgy life on the roads. When given the opportunity and the road is vaguely clear both motorists and cyclists don't half like to wind up the speed. What struck me was a. how fast car drivers like to travel when given the opportunity with big accelerations and inevitable braking in comparison to the more consistent and considerate speeds motorists move around my provincial little local town on similar size and congested roads and b. how fast and aggressively most cyclists move around in comparison to their compatriots in Amsterdam & Copenhagen.
It struck me both parties looked like they needed to chill out and learn how to do it right - it must be exhausting as well and more dangerous that necessary.
[i]It struck both parties looked like they needed to chill out and learn how to do it right[/i]
ah, so you're saying it was probably Woppit's fault. Nice.
Cool story Bro.
London isn't always like that 🙄
Still riding arentcha. Sometimes it's shite, most times it's fine if you are aware of what you are doing/in control of.
ah, so you're saying it was probably Woppit's fault. Nice.
No, to be honest as you and I were not there neither of us has the first clue - just one sides version of events. I never bother to even try to 'take sides' one way or another specifically on these little 'near death' anecdotes because it's just plain impossible to know enough to do anything more than give knee jerk sympathy or condemnation.
My comment was more of a tangental nature that incidents like this are so often more of an issue than they could have been because one or both sides are more self absorbed and travelling faster than really needed or necessary. If everyone slowed down a little bit in busy spots with lots permutations and assumptions about the other parties actions it would help and I doubt it would add much to the journey times. I've seen it done a lot better than the good folks in London collectively seem to be trying to do it currently.
At least London drivers vaguely expect to find themselves sharing the road with cyclists and there's the vaguest hint of infrastructure.
Ridden in London a few times and it's not that bad. You just need your wits about you.
Birmingham on the other hand, crikey that's lethal. Totally redesigned around the car with possibly the worst drivers in Britain, how I survived the 5 years I lived and rode there is still a mystery.
Went back a few years back to see a mate in Stirchley, had my bike with me so rolled down the road in my civvies to get a bite to eat, in the space of a mile I was given verbal twice and had a hatchback full of laughing 'yoofs' deliberately swerve at me.
Was quite glad to get back to my southern suburban idyll, guess I'm getting soft in my old age.
I don't think he blamed the OP - bit sensitive this morning MrDez?
I happen to agree with him, being a non-Londoner these days, some cyclists seem to have a death wish with the way they ride. It may only be 10% but they are the ones that get noticed by non-cyclists or 'tourists'. If you ride there daily then I guess you get acclimatised to it.
Not that it excuses the taxi forcing you wide, but I'm fairly sure both left and right lanes at that end of Southwark Bridge are right turn (with the left being both left and right turn)...
how fast and aggressively most cyclists move around in comparison to their compatriots in Amsterdam & Copenhagen.
This is because only the fast and fearless dare venture onto the roads. Look at pretty much any video on youtube of conflict between bikes and motorists, or poor behaviour by either party, and I guarantee it could have been avoided if the UK's cycle infrastructure wasn't so pisspoor.
Yep, that was the case last time I rode that way.
Filtering down the middle is OK but you really want to be in a lane (if you've not made it to the front) before the lights change.
Exactly - I wouldn't want to be turning right from the middle on a bike there, knowing that traffic could feasibly be turning with you on either side, relies too much on the turning line different size vehicles need to take...
I guarantee it could have been avoided if the UK's cycle infrastructure wasn't so pisspoor.
I blame driver attitudes more. What we have would work perfectly if drivers were better educated. Most of them only get pissed off becaues they don't think we should be doing what we do.
[i]I don't think he blamed the OP - bit sensitive this morning MrDez?[/i]
Not really, just don't get the point of what he was saying if it wasn't that.
[i]If everyone slowed down a little bit[/i]
Oh ok then. Let's all slow down... Reality check.
You punched a taxi, my hero
Without condoning criminal damage, if it was a black cab I seem to recall that they cannot trade if the bodywork is damaged. There was an old wives tale that this is why cabbies give cycle couriers room in London, for fear of having a door panel kicked in.
Possibly not TRUE, but it's a nice story.
Reality check.
Meaning what? Londoner's collectively are too important/arrogant or value collective safety too little to slow down a little? The important bit is total journey time not the terminal velocity and the two are not linked in a linear relationship when in comes to urban travel as I'm sure you are aware.
And Molgrips plus one. The roads don't kill, it's drivers who kill. Let's deal with that in the short term while trying to get the infrastructure sorted.
It sounds like you had the Lord on your side...
The agression of everyone surprised me when I was cycle commuting in London (Kilburn to Marble Arch).
I once saw a bus cut up a cyclist (perhaps a punishment pass) before stopping at a bus stop 50m down the road. The cyclist [i]very[/i] calmly (which made it all the more interesting), leant his bike against the front of the bus, pulled the windscreen wiper off as though it were made from paper, passed it to the driver through the open door and rode off.
I chatted briefly to the cyclist at the lights down the way. He said "when they check the cameras to see me doing that, they'll see the f*wits driving too!"
faireenuff!
[i]Meaning what?[/i]
Meaning saying everyone should slow down is as pointless as saying everyone should drive hover cars!
I didn't say I had a solution as to how to get Londoners to behave slightly more maturely but that yoyo speeds were a (partial) cause of your safety issues. To be honest it's not my problem as I don't live there so I'm not going to invest any thought into how to solve it but from an observers point of view it should be on your to do list.
I don't live there either (thank f__ ).
Can we just be friends now?
Go on then 🙂
The agression of everyone surprised me when I was cycle commuting in London (Kilburn to Marble Arch).
I've cycled in London plenty, and I've never felt aggression. Parts of West London are pretty tight though, but that's a space issue as much as anything else.
You punched a taxi, my hero
I head butted one in Edinburgh once, idiot decided to do a U-turn, didn't indicate and coming down a steep hill, I bounced into the back of him, head shaped dent.
how fast and aggressively most cyclists move around
For me, riding fast is a survival tactic in London. In one year of commuting here I've nearly been squashed by a white van, a bus and a couple of taxis - in all cases they knew where I was having just over/undertaken me. Cabbies are the worst. I dread my commute because there are a couple of places (Westminster roundabout for one) where it's touch and go twice a day. I hate it. No wonder that slower, less aggressive cyclists (especially women IME) feel vulnerable.
Fortunately I haven't come across any poor behaviour from black cabs in stark contrast to the Addison Lee / mini cab brigade.
Go across this every day. The junction at the end of Southwark bridge is horrendous.
Just to summarise
Left lane - turn right or left
Right lane - turn right.
vehicles can't go straight on, bikes can.
There's no safe way to filter. you'll be left hooked, right hooked or both!
To add to the danger, its used a lot by construction lorries, who are often in the left lane without indicators on.
If you stay in the queue, you have to be quick as people may overtake and then turn left (or right) across you as you go straight on
I've written to Southwark Council. Its being changed. The left lane will be cycles only with an advanced Green signal on the traffic lights (like there is heading south).
I lived in London for 6 years during which time I cycle commuted, motorbike commuted and car commuted as well as doing occasional car trips from E17 to Heathrow and back right through the city centre. I really cannot remember a single incident but I expect there were plenty of small things that happened, which I considered normal.
What I do remember though is the traffic light grand prix whereby everybody wanted to be first away from the lights so as to be in the right lane at the next light. The motorcycles were the best for that, especially the CB250RS I rode for a while, nice and nippy and compact.
By the way, if you want to support the changes, fill this in
http://www.southwark.gov.uk/cyclingstrategy
and add your voice/comments/"likes" to this
http://www.sdgdigital.co.uk/sites/southwarkcycling/
Commuted in central London on a folding bike for 3 years or so
In general was more inpressed by the standard of driving than by the standard of cycling TBH. Completely opposite to most places I have cycle commuted where the driving standards and awareness of bikes is much lower.
As above, There are many very dangerous junctions for bikes though
To add to the danger, its used a lot by construction lorries
Yep, that was the one...
I cycle in west London every day, and in central London about twice a week. as long as you're not a dick, on the whole, you'll be fine. You need to have a good sense of awareness of what's around you, and it helps to have an idea as to where you are going to.
As has been said several times above, most London drivers have an understanding that cyclists will be on the roads, and that cyclists don't often behave like cars drivers. I find that black cab drivers are mostly pretty good - they have a job to do, they know that running people over isn't very good, but because they drive in town every day they drive close to things.
The big problems in London are:
tipper trucks - because they're known killers of cyclists
mini cabs - because they don't give a ...
out of towners - because they shouldn't be driving in central London, and they need to understand its a different world down here, and their petty little small town aggression towards people "not like them", doesn't go down well.
Thanks for the instruction, but I have actually been doing this for a number of years.
Not very well by the sounds of it 😆
😉 It wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at those from the provinces saying that London traffic isn't good for cyclists, because they're mistaking lots of traffic for dangerous.
But, in any event, you're welcome.
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I hit a Ford Focus once and spent a week with the imprint of my glove on my knuckles.
I've hit the door mirrors on two cars hard enough to fold them back the wrong way, to the shock of one driver who's car was impinging into my cycle lane, who crawled past me then just stopped for no clear reason, which meant my knuckles clouted her mirror with quite a bang.
Fortunately I was wearing Oakley Factory Pilot gloves, which have carbon fibre knuckle protectors.
Highly recommended, or Mechanix gloves are available with similar, just the thing for close-quarter traffic jousting. 😉
Mr Woppit, you do have to watch that junction, the left lane is marked as being able to turn right from.
As for Parliament Square that someone mentioned earlier, I dont't mind that as if you get in the lane you want it's easy to stay there.
I don't like Northumberland Avenue eastbound from Trafalgar Sq, always a race between two lanes to get into one from the lights.
When I did my Bikeability (in Paddington) the instructor made a great suggestion about riding safely in London - pick your route.
Some junctions are designed very poorly - find a route away from them and you manage a lot of the risk out of your journey.
I now avoid Parliament Square and Westminster by going over Lambeth Bridge and round the back through Victoria to Buck House... much more peaceful...
FWIW when I was commuting from Bromley earlier this year the aggression from drivers was far worse there than it is in central London.
I cycle commuted through London for 9 years luckily with only 1 minor accident, i think as long as you ride assertively, take up the lane when necessary and move into position for turning nice and early then generally you will get by ok. I also tried to avoid being on the inside of any high sided vehicle like the plague... 20 seconds off my day is way better than a ride in an ambulance. That's not to say i didn't have my fair share of near misses when either a) i was being a nob ( i learned to ride a little slower and improve my positioning to be safer) or b) buses / addison lee were being complete to$$ers.
If you think london is bad, you should try Sydney. I have been here 3 months and have been sideswiped, sworn at and nearly taken out at roundabouts (whilst on them and other cars flying onto them). Also half of sydney roads seem to be at least 3 lanes wide and full of double length articulated lorries. Proper scary...
I don't think I've ever cycled that way over Southwark Bridge, but have never had any problems on either London Bridge or Tower Bridge. I do prefer the former though as it means I can drop back down onto the street the OP was trying to get on with no right turning required.
As above.. I'm happy to cycle in London but yes - picking your route is essential, and unfortunately you can't really tell from looking at Google Maps (although you can to some extent). Some places are bedlam, some are a breeze. And some are both at different times of day.
That's why there are so many 'how to get from A to B in London' threads on here, and you always get useful sensible advice because it's always a good question, not a stupid one.
[s]out of towners[/s]Private Cars - because they shouldn't be driving in central London, [s]and they need to understand its a different world down here, and their petty little small town aggression towards people "not like them", doesn't go down well.[/s]
FIFY