Yep, so tourneo seats don't slide in rails but the rear has 6x individual seats. Each with fold flat, and tilt up.
Stellantis cars have 2x rows which slide, 3 seats on each row and 1 of those can be removed to leave 2x, or vice versa. Removing them is a 30 sec job, just lift out. Means with 2x single seats out you can have 1 or 2 rows of double seats, so perfect for a camping seat up with bike down the side and 2x rear seats in. Same for the tourneo.
Caravelle - 3x bench in the back which is 100kg and a 2x man job to remove. 2x single seats in the 2nd row, easier to remove but requires removal of rail parts so not as quick as it should be. With just the bench seat in, all the way forward, enough room for a bike with the front wheel off, but with the bike in you can't use the beech seat. So it'd need to be 2x singles down one side, another single in the 2nd row and bike with front wheel off behind the 2nd row single.
The Peugeot traveller/Citroen Spacetourer/Toyota Proace verso which are all the same bar some small spec differences are realistically £25k minimum. But I don't think they take mileage well, I looked at a 40k mile one and it was really tired inside, not great build quality either.
That and the absence of any adaptive cruise control (I really do use this ALL the time in my car) means I can see me buying one for £32k-£35k and then getting annoyed at the build quality/lack of spec I'm used to and changing it again. Might as well just spend a bit more and get something that I'll be happy to keep for 5 years plus.
Just tested my G1 and the length with a wheel off is 170cm, if I had a wheel slot in the front of the van I'd be able to wheel it in both wheels on, have the slot hold it upright, then whip off the front wheel and mount it in a fork mount all within about 60 seconds, and at that length it's short enough to go in behind a 2nd row seat slid all the way forward...
With wheels on, the shortest I can make it by turning the bar/front wheel 90 degrees, is 190cm. Front wheel straight ahead and it's about 2.1m long. That's a 1350mm wheelbase for you 🤣
Ahhh - I’m talking about the small van versions - Rifter/Berlingo/Combo Life
Ahhh – I’m talking about the small van versions – Rifter/Berlingo/Combo Life
Ahh yeah, I looked at those - they're the next size down, same size as a caddy maxi/tourneo grand connect.
You can buy a brand new grand tourneo connect for about £32k. A bargain compared to the next size up, they're just a bit smaller on space than Id want, even on the LWB version.
Can also see the appeal of the van-based MPVs; but as someone with no kids or dog it just looks like a situation where I need to find somewhere to put the seats I remove from it…
When I bought mine the Multispace/civilian version of a Berlingo was far better condition/price/mileage than the equivalent van. I found a tube of Sterident in mine which gave a clue to the previous owner. I couldn't find the mythical used ex-florist van. The Multispace versions are also Manchester clean zone compliant (if it ever happens). I'm probably at the bottom end of the buying spectrum though
I found a tube of Sterident in mine which gave a clue to the previous owner.
🤣🤣
Yeah even going from the T6 shuttle to the caravelle gets you a much much nicer place to be, better spec, more sound deadening, etc etc. You obviously pay for it, though...
Our Tourneo Custom LWB is the 8 seater, the rear two rows are single and double seats. The rear set of doubles were removed straight away. The others come out when Abigale takes it to the Alps.
It's a two man job to lift the double seat out.
Rest of the time the others are left in. Can get four 29ers in with wheels on and four adults with all the kit with no problems.
It came fully loaded 4 years ago and would still be a steal at today's prices.
Paging @Wally - I see in an older thread you have a Rifter, how are you getting on with it?
I'm looking at a SWB one; i'm wondering if I can fit a bike in, with wheels on, if the front passenger seat is down. LWB seems a bit unwieldy and my missus isnt sure she'd be comfortable driving it.
If this helps, I measured a SWB Berlingo/rifter a while back:
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That's 210cm from the tailgate to nearly the end of the armrest.
5t horsebox. On a Peugeot Boxer Chassis. Its a motorhome with a really big 'garage'
Drives like a van, decent mpg. Got all the mod cons, heating, cooking, shower, toilet, etc, everything youd get in a motorhome.
Use it for horses, mountain bikes and motorbikes.
Just tested my G1 and the length with a wheel off is 170cm, if I had a wheel slot in the front of the van I’d be able to wheel it in both wheels on, have the slot hold it upright, then whip off the front wheel and mount it in a fork mount all within about 60 seconds, and at that length it’s short enough to go in behind a 2nd row seat slid all the way forward…
Unsure what van you were talking about there @ta11pau1, but yes a very looooooooooooongLS bike like Geometrons are indeed around that length with a wheel off. If one of those fits in a particular van, anything will! For reference, this is a 1341mm WB XL G15, front wheel off, in a L2 DCIV Transit Custom with the forks in a mount adjacent to the bulkhead. It's tight.
Cor blimey that is tight! Can you even slide a fag paper between the tyre and the rear door?!
I was talking about the caravelle - from my (extensive) googling, which lead me back to a thread on here (of course! STW is the font of all knowledge!) the caravelle would appear to be 178cm from the back of a single rear seat row slid all the way forward, to the tailgate.
I'd need to measure myself, or even better try my bike in one to be sure.
Old thread here
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/swb-caravelle-boot-space/
ta11pau1
If this helps, I measured a SWB Berlingo/rifter a while back:
That’s 210cm from the tailgate to nearly the end of the armrest.
Yeah that is helpful. Pics I've seen look like the front passenger seat folds almost completely flat; I reckon when I was soloing it I could fit my ML Aether 9 in there, wheels on.
I'd also be looking to kip in it when doing the odd marshalling weekend in Scotland; so with a bit of handy work I think it could be converted into a bed situation too. I'm 5'11"
I'd be interested to know if you can remove the second row of seats. if so, I'd remove the two seat bench to make the majority of the bed flat; it looks like from pictures that the second row of seats don't lie completely flat.
You won't have a problem fitting the G1 a Touneo Custom
[img] 
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[img] 
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You can sleep 2 and 2 bikes in a Tourneo Connect
[img] 
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To be fair there's ~6-7cm between the fork mount and the bulkhead (to allow tightening/loosening of the Maxle onto the mount) and I'd gain a few cm length if I had it mounted at floor height rather than 45cm or so up, but yeah it's tight! Tailgate has slight curve so mounting an even longer bike would be possible in the middle of the load area instead of the side. Plus, removing bulkhead completely would allow a further 10cm or so to the back of the fixed-bench rear seats.
Load area quoted as 1944mm at floor level for my L2 DCIV, and 1501mm in L1.
No pics with the tailgate closed as there's no internal tailgate release to let myself back out...
Yeah that is helpful. Pics I’ve seen look like the front passenger seat folds almost completely flat; I reckon when I was soloing it I could fit my ML Aether 9 in there, wheels on.
I’d also be looking to kip in it when doing the odd marshalling weekend in Scotland; so with a bit of handy work I think it could be converted into a bed situation too. I’m 5’11”
I’d be interested to know if you can remove the second row of seats. if so, I’d remove the two seat bench to make the majority of the bed flat; it looks like from pictures that the second row of seats don’t lie completely flat.
I think the front seat only folds flat on the lower spec models, so the feel spec in the Berlingo - deffo check that though.
The rear seats do not come out like the old Berlingo - they fold (nearly) flat but don't come out.
Would a Stepwagon be easier with the folding seats ?
I think the front seat only folds flat on the lower spec models, so the feel spec in the Berlingo – deffo check that though.
I thought it was likely the other way around; but in any case - its the Allure spec in the Rifter I'm looking at which almost certainly has the front folding seat (see 
)
The rear seats do not come out like the old Berlingo – they fold (nearly) flat but don’t come out.
I'd read (somewhere!) that you could get them out if you're willing to start undoing bolts
Would a Stepwagon be easier with the folding seats ?
I think thats a bit big for my current parameters.
I think thats a bit big for my current parameters.
Dunno mate, they're nowhere near as big as an Elgrand/Transit size.... worth a look/explore ?
Dunno mate, they’re nowhere near as big as an Elgrand/Transit size…. worth a look/explore ?
Absolutely!
I thought it was likely the other way around; but in any case – its the Allure spec in the Rifter I’m looking at which almost certainly has the front folding seat
Ahh, yes you're probably right. Tbh I've looked at some many specs, sizes etc of so many cars that it's hard to remember! I was looking at the new Berlingo a few months back, before I started looking at the next size up.
Sorry @colourofsound, just spotted your question back to me. It is a Peugeot Partner Outdoor (so the equivalent to the Berlingo XTR of the same vintage)...previous model before it got renamed in memory of a great fart! Seats get removed as they don't go flat, but mine is 9 years old now, so as mentioned, probably not much help to you. Standard wheelbase model.
I'm thinking it is time for a change and I'd like a newer version of it, but they aren't cheap so I'm not in any rush to get rid as it works very well. Saying that, the parking sensors have stopped working in the last week - fuse is all fine so I'm guessing one fo the sensors has developed a fault, so I need to work out how to change those (and hope new sensors are reasonably cheap and the work is pretty straightforward).
https://www.parkers.co.uk/citroen/e-berlingo/review/long-term/
Result - this bloke in the long term review is putting a Santa Cruz in a SWB. Looks like from the pictures he has to nestle it between the seats - which is fine.
It looks like an older 5010; which means its 27.5 and will likely be short in wheelbase - but I think even in the SWB this vehicle is looking promising 🙂
DickBarton
Full Member
Sorry @colourofsound, just spotted your question back to me. It is a Peugeot Partner Outdoor (so the equivalent to the Berlingo XTR of the same vintage)…previous model before it got renamed in memory of a great fart! Seats get removed as they don’t go flat, but mine is 9 years old now, so as mentioned, probably not much help to you. Standard wheelbase model.
No worries! Yeah it looks like SWB will work; bit of a compromise but then a LWB is a compromise for other reasons!
Ha! Is the reviewer on here?
The Citroen Berlingo is to mountain bikers what the VW Transporter is to surfers. Don’t ask me why this is, but if I had to speculate, I would suggest it’s the combination of a bike-sized boot and accessible used values that make it such a tempting second vehicle for your hobby.
The XL Berlingo/Rifter would actually be long enough for me to fit my 2100mm bike in wheels on with it's 2200mm of space with the seats folded, and they have adaptive cruise control as an option, which uses the brakes (unlike the traveller/Spacetourer which can only use engine braking).
However, finding an auto, diesel, XL, Flair (XTR) or GT Line, with adaptive cruise control? Rocking horse poo.
And they're still not great for camping in, with the next size up you can have a nice camping seat area with a table/cooker etc with a bike in the car, with just the factory fitted seats.
And they’re still not great for camping in, with the next size up you can have a nice camping seat area with a table/cooker etc with a bike in the car, with just the factory fitted seats.
Yeah I can accept that. We're not campers really; we tend to go for 'glamping' style huts or pods when going up to the Highlands; so if anyone is sleeping in it, its me, alone with bike, at an event, for 3 nights maximum.
Perfectly viable/adaptable for that I think!
ust working out if I can get the seats in a SWB Caravelle (no LWB in the executive spec) in a configuration to allow bike(s) down one side, wheels on or off, with seats down the other and a bed over the top of them.
Velle will allow you to do this. You can remove the rear bench on your own - I've done it a couple of times. I built a high trolley to let me slide it out, just like in this video. Then one of the captain's chairs can go at the back and the other either directly in line with it, or, for easier access, it could even go in the middle.
1975 Volvo TGB13 6×6 truck. Earlier versions had a separate box on the back, someone not far from me has had one, sans box, parked in the small front garden of their house, amazingly. Not there at the moment, probably getting an expedition back built up for it.
There are a good few of them round here, also the 4x4 version, Volvo TGB11/L3314/L3315/Valpen in all it's various guises.
Not sure the 11 would be long enough to sleep in though!
Yeah I can accept that. We’re not campers really; we tend to go for ‘glamping’ style huts or pods when going up to the Highlands; so if anyone is sleeping in it, its me, alone with bike, at an event, for 3 nights maximum.
Tbh, that's my use case as well, something I can book a campsite at short notice and go away for the weekend, with a bike or 2 inside the car, and me sleeping alongside.
On longer trips I'll do the usual Airbnb but currently it's a faff finding somewhere with bike storage, with a van if I know I'm not going to be camping in it, there's acres of room to carry bikes etc.
I may also do longer trips camping in the van, and the extra flexibility the bigger ones give means I'll have somewhere to sit when I'm in the Lakes trying to cook some food and it's pissing it down in the middle of September... 🤣
4x individual rear seats (which all swivel) as a 'normal' layout, remove one or 2 on one side, loadsa room for a couple of bikes, keep the T6 caravelle table in, maybe a camping pod behind the driver/passenger seat with both side seats removed, still with space for a bike or two, front wheels off behind the pod. Then a simple fold out bed over the 2x rear seats still in the van, folded flat.
So this layout, with 1/2 removed on one side.
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Velle will allow you to do this. You can remove the rear bench on your own – I’ve done it a couple of times. I built a high trolley to let me slide it out, just like in this video. Then one of the captain’s chairs can go at the back and the other either directly in line with it, or, for easier access, it could even go in the middle.
Yeah exactly, tbh I probably wouldn't even need to buy any extra single seats, I rarely if ever have to carry 3 passengers. So as you say, a few options for placing the single rear chairs. With both in the'normal' position there's room for about 4x bikes front wheel off in the now mahoosive boot. Or in line with each other, space for bikes with wheels on, and/or a camping pod like this:
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Looks bloody gargantuan! I don't think I'd fit one on the drive - also a consideration. Moving house so I can get a bigger van seems a bit extreme 🙂
...but always worth considering
Just beware there's only 4 lashing points in the floor of a Velle at the extremities of the load bed. But there's plenty of people that sell removable lashings to go in the rail system on ebay (I actually made my own out of some ring eyes and barrel bolts, but the bought ones look way cooler).
I'm planning to build myself a pod to go in place of the offisde middle chair in the next few weeks. This will take our fridge, a "all kinds of pointless crap that the kids insist we take" respository and a damned great rubbish bin that they can fail to utilise.
I was tempted to get a single non-swivelling chair to swap out with the bench. So we could go
Seat Space Seat
space seat space
and stick bikes down one side of the space at the back with luggage down the other
The table is a flimsy useless waste of space. Ours has been at the back of the shed for two years now. You only have to sneeze at the cupholders to make them jam.
I'd really like a Caravelle but having looked into it recently, they seem to cost nearly double what a similar Transporter/Transit custom would cost and it would spend most of its time covered in mud with the spare seats in the (already cramped and dirty) garage. Seems a shame and a waste of cash?
I’d really like a Caravelle but having looked into it recently, they seem to cost nearly double what a similar Transporter/Transit custom would cost and it would spend most of its time covered in mud with the spare seats in the (already cramped and dirty) garage. Seems a shame and a waste of cash?
Not sure what age you're looking at but for a 2017/2018 caravelle Vs kombi van it's £40-42k Vs £35k.
Transit Vs tourneo of the same age is £35k Vs £30k
In the VW at least, there's a gulf of difference in interior spec.
Eh ? I bought a 16 Transit (van admittedly) for £16k with 42,000 on the clocks... That's a LOT less.
17 Crew cab Transit custom with 47,000
I'd be looking at the facelift transit to get android auto, and an automatic - in comparison, the cheapest DCIV version on the same site as the above van is £26k + VAT, so £31k.
Edit: some for £28k no VAT.
Autos seem to be a lot more expensive than manuals in the transit/tourneo world.
i think the No VAT options in our position (assuming like me you're private buyer) are really massively worth waiting for. It's a huge chunk of change difference.
I don't think you want a Transit Auto though. Couple of mates have them and get mid 20s... 23-26mpg regularly.... which lets face it, isn't great.
I don’t think you want a Transit Auto though. Couple of mates have them and get mid 20s… 23-26mpg regularly…. which lets face it, isn’t great.
Hmm, good to know - having owned an auto since 2018 there's no chance I'm going back to a manual.
For the Caravelle it seems around 35mpg is doable on a long run - figures on the forums are all over the shop, thanks to people with stupid 20" wheels, or fully loaded camper set ups adding several hundred kg. Most of the caravelles seem to be the 204bhp BiTdi engine too, although not a huge difference to the 150bhp - they're the same base engine.
I know I'll have a sizable mpg drop from the easy 50+ mpg I can get with my Superb, I've accepted that - but dropping to half that would be a big no. On a long run up to Scotland with the wind behind me and cruising at 65mph I can get 55mpg without any trouble.
We had a manual T5 and hired an “auto” (dual clutch) Shuttle for a couple of weeks last summer. Fuel economy between the 2 was very similar (high 30’s) and the auto drove well enough that if I get a van again it’ll likely have one. Not sure what Ford are playing at if theirs are crippling the fuel economy
I know I’ll have a sizable mpg drop from the easy 50+ mpg I can get with my Superb, I’ve accepted that – but dropping to half that would be a big no. On a long run up to Scotland with the wind behind me and cruising at 65mph I can get 55mpg without any trouble.
Vito Dualiner it is then.
I half-follow a Transit Custom Owners Group on FB and economy in the autos is absolutely slated, but then a lot of folk on there claim mid-20s for manuals too so there's a vast quantity of BS to wade through.
My Transit Custom is manual and 130ps output: mixed driving overall 35-36mpg, more town driving means 33mpg, best overall was 39.9mpg over 600 miles of motorway at 70mph but was over 40mpg until I hit the rolling hills on the A30. I use all the (relative) performance. Standard 16" wheels, standard 215/65r16C all-seasons.
Nah, I've looked at Vito tourer, they're not nice inside at all - no android auto either. Not interested in anything more than a year older than my current 2017 car.
I'd want a v-class for there nicer interior but they're stupid money. They make a caravelle look good value!!
Not sure what age you’re looking at but for a 2017/2018 caravelle Vs kombi van it’s £40-42k Vs £35k.
Transit Vs tourneo of the same age is £35k Vs £30k
In the VW at least, there’s a gulf of difference in interior spec.
You are quite correct, not sure what I was comparing or if it is just my old age but I could have sworn the difference was greater. At the time I posted this thread I had looked at just about every car, MPV and van on Autotrader.
I have a 14 plate 2.0 bi tdi auto - I can easily get the average to 28mpg if I try. Sometimes it will go up to 37ish. Once over 40 (in about 5yrs of ownership).
If I can get closer to 40mpg than 30mpg on a typical drive up to the Lakes/Scotland (M25->A1->A66 etc so barely 10 roundabouts on the whole journey) I'll be happy. I'm not expecting miracles though, the caravelle is 1000kg heavier than my car with the same engine, and has the aerodynamics of a brick, can't break the laws of physics!
I have a 14 plate 2.0 bi tdi auto
Those are the ones which have EGR cooler issues and end up needing new engines, aren't they? 😬
I'm glad the later t6 204ps model doesn't have that issue!
Velle auto will do 23mpg around town, absolute max. On a run, if you are really, really kind to it you can get over 30. People behind will hate you: even Fred Dibnah in his steam roller would have been looking for an opportunity.
Mine weighs 2585kg empty - a full 700kg more than a similar regular t6.
If I were to buy one again now, I'd go for a 2wd exec with the 150bhp lump and DSG. The 199/204 is lovely, but by god it has a drink problem, especially in 4motion form. Get a warranty as they're built haphazardly.
20"s are awful, unless you're a chiropractor in need of clientele.
Yeah 4motion although a nice thought is a no, luckily they're quite rare. I'd be going approved used, so 1 year VW warranty. The 'standard' of some regular used cars in dealers is shocking sometimes.
Don't realise the caravelle was so much heavier than the standard van, I know the rear bench is about 90-100kg so I'm guessing all the rear seats combined is 200kg worth. Is there really an extra 500kg in sound deadening/glass?!
