Well I got fed up of having to buy a new jacket every season to replace the previous year's that wasn't waterproof and had fallen apart ... 🙁
So I bought an Arc'teryx Sidewinder in a sale in 2008 (RRP £500) and it's still going strong today despite numerous altercations & encounters with trees, rocks & ice etc!
Did look at the Arc'teryx stuff when it came up on SportPursuit. Looked lush but I couldn't justify the cost even in the sale. 🙁
Do you reckon the general quality of jackets has gone down in the past ten years or so? My ancient Burton Tempest jacket is a bit bobbly, faded and frayed but it is still just about wearable and I've had it for yonks. Modern jackets seems a lot more delicate.
I got a ME changabang (and a pair of bindings) with my credit note for the Burton jacket.
I got the Burton Jacket though my friends instructor discount £180, I was upfront with Ellis Brigham when I took it into them, saying I'd bought it overseas, I'd quite happily pay them to send it to Burton for repair/replacement through their channels.
EB said no probs, sent it off. Burton said "sorry, credit note him" E-B gave me a credit note for RRP - £360 ( 😯 ) That paid for the ME jacket, and some Salomon Bindings with a chip in from me.
The zip in the ME jacket jave up after a year, so I took it back - they sent it off. ME said "the zip's not a warranty item" wtf? jacket's pretty much useless without one - fancy fabric isn't worth a lot if it's flapping off your shoulders! EB told me they thought that was unacceptable, gave me another Changabang off the hanger and said they'd keep on at ME.
Zip gave up the ghost on that one too.
EB called a few years later when they were doing a refit, and said "we've found a jacket, looks like warranty was refused but you never picked it up. Do you want it?"
Picked it up, sent both off to Tundra Repair for new zips, both going strong. Nice jackets, rubbish zips!
And That is The Story of My Jackets. Cool story, isn't it, bro's?
Epilogue: I've spent a bit in Ellis Brigham since!
Sounds like you got a lot better service from Ellis Brigham than I got from Snow+Rock. They tried to fob me off saying the (brand new) jacket just needed reproofing and that it was my fault for wearing a cotton t-shirt under it! 😯 Took a lot of faffing and persistence to get them to concede it.
My Mammutt jacket is 10 years old but I do only ski 1-2 weeks a year. I have a cheap White Stuff smock which still does decent service too. I wince at the price of the shells today, Arc'teryx looks very nice but I cannot justify it (likewise Gore bike wear so perhaps I am just a cheap skate).
@ned, nice story
Well looks like the guy on eBay has more Westbeach Backcountry jackets for sale (Medium and Large) if anyone fancies one. Guessing he bought a job lot in the sale. £126 for a £275 RRP 20k/30k shell seems like a bargain to me.
Here's his eBay page: http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/smithy661976
Interesting about the AK stuff, my experience of AK gear has been good. That said my Arc'teryx stuff is indestructible, one of my jackets must be 10 years old and just keeps on going.
On another point, does anyone know anything about GoPro poles? I will be skiing/riding with some friends and their kids are bound to want to use one.
Ahh well - nice spot Graham, a 20k/30k shell sounded interesting, but not if the biggest size is large. The extra large would be spot on but he's only selling a 10k/10k in that size.
I'll always be very cautious with buying stuff that states itself as being 10k waterproof or whatever. Last year I bought a pair of 686 ski pants in a sample sale for about 50 dollars Canadian, which stated themselves to be 10k waterproof. Well I spent most of the season with a soaking wet behind and wet legs, and didn't even bother taking them back home with me. They went in the bin where they belong.
Recently bought a Gore tex Powderhorn jacket and pants on Sport Pursuit, so hopefully they'll do the job! Imo you can't really put a price on staying warm and dry all day.
I'll always be very cautious with buying stuff that states itself as being 10k waterproof or whatever.
Agreed but you've got to go on something - even if it is a bit "aspirational" on the part of the marketeers.
Recently bought a Gore tex Powderhorn jacket and pants on Sport Pursuit, so hopefully they'll do the job! Imo you can't really put a price on staying warm and dry all day.
The AK jacket I mentioned was Goretex, which is one of the reasons I was surprised it was so crap!
Interesting about the AK stuff, my experience of AK gear has been good.
It seems to get decent write ups so it's quite possible that I got a "Friday afternoon" one. It behaved as if they had forgotten to apply any DWR to it at all. Water droplets didn't bead on it, they just soaked in until the jacket was heavy and sodden. They claimed it just needed reproofing (bit odd for a brand new jacket) so I hand washed it, tumble dried it (per instructions) and the main zip lost half a dozen teeth!
Recently bought a Gore tex Powderhorn jacket and pants
They're good. My wife has both and rates them highly. Nicely detailed too as they should be at that kind of RRP.
Water droplets didn't bead on it, they just soaked in until the jacket was heavy and sodden.
That is unacceptable on a brand new ski jacket, Goretex or not.
Yep, my wife eventually won the argument with the snow+rock guy when she pointed out that her £30 jacket from the Trespass outlet performed significantly better in the wet. 😀
Well if we're doing jacket stories....
A long time ago, in a place far, far away, sometime around the dawn of internet forums, Burton Snowboards had an internet forum. There were maybe 20 regular posters on it, but it had a really good vibe. One of those posters was me. Another was a dude who worked at Burton HQ. He collected Nike Dunks and discovered that some new colour-schemes had been issued that were UK-only. He asked me if I would buy him a set and post them over. In exchange for Burton gear at US HQ staff discount rate. I was in. I got the unaffordably exotic AK Continuum Fuse jacket for what worked out at about £70. It was awesome. I've still got it. I've worn it snowboarding for over 10 years and I still wear it regularly as my "touring day" jacket. I wore it in Scottish deluges for my mountain leader exams and it held up in fine style. Will be wearing it again this winter. The pull tag on the zip did break a year or two ago, but I just shoved a key-ring on. Otherwise, it's in really good shape, aside from the big areas of rucksuck wear and snowboard edge wear.
snowboard edge wear.
*looks with a puzzled skiers face*.
Hehe, comes from carrying your board under your arm - the edge of the board rubs on your hip as you walk and scrapes away at your jacket / pants!
haha! great story stevomcd! 🙂
I guess that kindof answers GrahamS' earlier question 😆 :
Do you reckon the general quality of jackets has gone down in the past ten years or so?
So anyone looking for a slightly longer board this year?
Signal will sort you out:
😀
Do you reckon the general quality of jackets has gone down in the past ten years or so?
I'd say not if you choose wisely, just a lot more rubbish on the market. Materials like Goretex are actually getting better and better i.e. more waterproof, more breathable and more durable. Insulation is also getting lighter and warmer.
My favourite jacket at the moment is a Sweet Protection Duke. Had it a couple of years now and pretty good value when on sale.
My toughest jacket is a Dainese Valdez from around '06. Bit heavy though by today's standards.
Interestingly, at the time I got my AK jacket, most of Burton's top-end stuff (especially AK) was GoreTex. The Continuum Fuse, which had welded rather than sewn & taped seams was not because, at the time GoreTex would not allow their fabric to be used in this way. Burton therefore had to use some other waterproof/breathable fabric. No idea if this had any effect on the longevity or not.
Say what you like about Burton, and they certainly have plenty of detractors, but they've always been innovators and early-adopters of new technology. Welded-seam clothing was pretty bling stuff back in the early 00's.
I've had a lot of their kit over the years mostly been really happy with it. Clothing was good, boards good, had some really awful gloves, I got on well with their boots. Their bindings were always the big stand-out for me though. I honestly think that it's only in the last 5 years or so that it's even been worth looking at another binding brand. Plenty of choice these days, but for years everyone else seemed to be miles behind.
I'm still using a set of CO2's that I brought with me when I moved to France in 2007. They're now back on first-choice board too. I swap boards a lot, but even conservatively I reckon they've got 300 days riding on them!
Mild, very mild. More mild forecast for another 10 days. Anyone planning skiing in France December will need to go high.
The explanation I got from Ellis Brigham about my jacket ("Surely you'd expect better from GreTex?") was that in many cases, GoreTex just supply the membrane, Burton or whover else bond it to the face fabric they choose.
Don't know if this is the case? I'm pretty certain it's not when you're looking at GoreTex ProShell or XCR, which seems to be the whole laminate fabric, same construction in every case, rather than just the membrane.
Can't say I've tested it in bad weather yet but I have an Oakley jacket that I rate, it's comfy, has some lovely features like magnetic storm flap and hood catch. It's also in such a borderline girly blue that everyone can find me on the slopes with ease!
("Surely you'd expect better from GreTex?") was that in many cases, GoreTex just supply the membrane, Burton or whover else bond it to the face fabric they choose.
Worrying! I would have thought there would be a high level of quality control or testing for jackets to be allowed call themselves Gore tex, otherwise its just some level of waterproof, which is often far from IMO.
The best "Gortex" jackets I've used in recent years haven't been Gortex. On the hills a Schôffel jacket is proving more durable (as in still waterproof) than any Gortex I've owned while on the bike an Adidas Storm (expensive) and an Endura yellow thing (cheap) are lasting better than Goretex branded things. I've got some new North Face Gortex jackets but I'm reluctant to use them with a rucksac or in conditions which mean they'll need a wash, because experience says they'll then leak.
Gore are a scary bunch, not least in the way they try and control the market.
If you want to use any other membrane in your range, they basically blackball you out of it. It takes a brave company to say up yours to that!
eVent is a better performing fabric, as was Lowe Alpine's excellent Triple Point Ceramic among others. As long as fools keep on saying they need a "goretex" when they really need a waterproof, breathable fabric, companies will keep on making it.
Ignorance in the market is to blame here.
FWIW, main jacket is Eider, with an Entrant fabric (20k water/20k breathe) and trews are TNF HyVent. Less of an issue, as they're very well vented. In both cases, keep the outer nicely proofed and job's a good 'un.
eVent is a better performing fabric, as was Lowe Alpine's excellent Triple Point Ceramic among others. As long as fools keep on saying they need a "goretex" when they really need a waterproof, breathable fabric, companies will keep on making it.
The Wetbeach I ordered of eBay is [url= http://cocona.com/technology/ ]Cocona[/url] apparently. Never heard of it but they claim 20k water/30k breathe so it'll be interesting to see how it performs in reality.
Speaking of GoreTex the flash-sale-site-that-shall-not-be-named has Berghaus GoreTex Pro shells on at £99.
(plus some decently priced Westbeach, Powderhorn, Bergans and Haglofs stuff)
As long as fools keep on saying they need a "goretex" when they really need a waterproof, breathable fabric, companies will keep on making it.
I just thought in theory it would make more sense to think that a Gore tex jacket/pants or whatever would actually be waterproof. Maybe I just had a bad egg with the 10k waterproof pants I had which soaked right through on more than a few occasions. Casual one week a year skiers etc would be better off with cheap and cheerful, or "waterproof". I would be happy buy 10 or 20k waterproof stuff if thats what they actually are... just thought going for Gore tex would be a safer option. 🙂
Some of the best fabrics out there are made by the likes of Toray.
Just look at the really good stuff churned out by Salomon, Kjus, Schoffel, Eider, TNF and more that ISN'T Gore. I'm a hot bugger at the best of times and ski hard and fast, but have never suffered wetting out due to lack of breathability in my TNF trews.
In short, a bin bag is waterproof. Waterproofing is only half the problem, though.
For ski stuff, it's less of an issue, as snow's a different make up to rain. A good DWR outer is really important, obviously, as is jacket design (Venting, etc).
I would be happy buy 10 or 20k waterproof stuff if thats what they actually are... just thought going for Gore tex would be a safer option.
As above, as long as people keep thinking they need a Goretex rather than a good waterproof, breathable piece of kit (Which may, as it happens be Gore), Gore will continue to rake it in. There are equal, better, and certainly cheaper fabrics out there.
my trews are Gelanots, apparently. Not been disappointed. In fact I'm quite happy with them. This happy:
[img] 
?oh=eba13b5707dac60e180ed5df57055df5&oe=550966F8&__gda__=1426428531_da3b72aa753a3424e91ef711372c119e[/img]
These:
http://www.trewgear.com/pdp/trewthbib
If you want a high end shell bib with crampon patches that is a relaxed fit (not skinny mountaineery) You're looking at £400+ from Norrona or ArcT, or these for £285 (if you're going to the states, or know someone who is)
as snow's a different make up to rain
In Whistler there were a few days where I was walking to the Gondola in the rain, and sometimes it was still raining up at midway.
And in Mt Seymour North Van, there were a few days where I was teaching in the rain all day.
Maybe there a lots of makes and fabrics that aren't Gore tex which will keep you dry as the ones you mentioned, not saying there isn't, some of them are similar price to Gore tex! But for buying on sale on SportPursuit, Gore tex made sense! Not saying I need Gore tex, I just need to not get a wet a$$! 🙂
I would be happy buy 10 or 20k waterproof stuff
For me, 10k waterproof is the absolute minimum, wouldn't even consider anything lower. Even at that, I would consider it as OK for an every-day resort-riding jacket but wouldn't expect it to perform well in really bad weather or for touring.
eVent is a better performing fabric
I thought eVent was total shite and I'm not alone in that although there are still some that sing its praises. It did perform well but only for about 6 months.
For the last 6 years I've used Paramo salopettes for all my winter stuff. Climbing, walking, skiing on and off the lifts and touring. I must have put in well over 300 days in them and they're still going strong.
I'm not a fan of their stuff for other applications but for snow based activities they are the mutts nuts.
Gore are a scary bunch, not least in the way they try and control the market.If you want to use any other membrane in your range, they basically blackball you out of it. It takes a brave company to say up yours to that!
eVent is a better performing fabric, as was Lowe Alpine's excellent Triple Point Ceramic among others. As long as fools keep on saying they need a "goretex" when they really need a waterproof, breathable fabric, companies will keep on making it.
Ignorance in the market is to blame here.
FWIW, main jacket is Eider, with an Entrant fabric (20k water/20k breathe) and trews are TNF HyVent. Less of an issue, as they're very well vented. In both cases, keep the outer nicely proofed and job's a good 'un.
Very interesting. I bought a North Face HyVent hiking jacket as I thought the Gortex was too pricey and I have been very impressed with it, kept the ice cold wind out on Snowden and has seen plenty of very wet days too out hiking or on the Boris Bike.
In Whistler there were a few days where I was walking to the Gondola in the rain, and sometimes it was still raining up at midway
Same in Fernie - in can be raining in town or at resort level but snowing above the mid-station. Having a jacket with less than adequate waterproofing is a recipe for chilly-chair-lift-rides ... hence my switch to an Arcteryx jacket. I can honestly say I haven't been disappointed with the GoreTex Pro Shell
my trews are Gelanots, apparently. Not been disappointed
Although I've never heard of these - thanks for the heads up nedrapier as I'm toying with the idea of some new 'slacks' for the coming season! 8)
edit - sadly I don't know anyone currently heading to the States - but they do look the business for the PNW!
edit#2 although I do see they have a UK and a Fernie dealer! Mmmmm
eVent is a better performing fabric
That's the point I lost interest in your anti-Goretex rant.
IME Goretex comes in lots of flavours some great, some not so great. Never had problems with high end Goretex, especially Proshell. Probably the weakest Goretex I've seen was on a Salomon jacket my wife had circa 2003. It wore badly after only a few weeks light usage, but it was cheap for Goretex. But the other 10 or more Goretex jackets/pants I've been through over the years have been excellent and I've got a few 10+ year old ones still in active service and still very much waterproof/breathable. For example I've got a Dainese Goretex XCR jacket that is simply bombproof. Newer ones are lighter and more breathable for sure.
I have also got a few decent non-Goretex jackets/pants and they do work, but not quite as well IME.
Hi, due to a mate dropping out and a chnage of plans, a couple of now us want to go to St Anton to meet another group of friends who have already arranged their trip. Has anyone got any tips for cheap ( i know i know its St Anton) accomodation. 2 to 3 people Thanks!
[img] 
[/img]
?
I've been watching the jacket discussion with interest.
As a sweaty gentleman who doesn't often feel the cold and is likely to be on a board at Easter for the next few years I've been looking at shell type jackets - I'm happy to stck a fleece or softshell underneath if needs be.
So tough, spectacularly breathable, and very waterproof (it's wet when you fall at Easter and it rains sometimes) - what jackets would you suggest?
PS I like snowskirts and wrist gaiters - but that might not be a deal breaker, particularly the latter.
I've been looking at shell type jackets - I'm happy to stck a fleece or softshell underneath if needs be.
Shells always make more sense to me for exactly that reason - layers beat insulation and mean you only need one decent outer.
So tough, spectacularly breathable, and very waterproof
If you find it then let me know! 😆
What's your budget and style-persuasions?
I would suggest the Westbeach Backcountry jacket I mentioned earlier, but it's all black so might possibly be a bit toasty in springtime sun. (I'll find out soon enough!)
Igm, have a look at the mid market brands, like Eider, Schoffel, Salomon and TNF.
Another advantage of a shell jacket is that you get something you can wear off the slopes as well. I have a plain black Eider shell, with thumb loops, removable powder skirt and hood and lots of venting. Good pockets, too.
Re warm weather skiing, I've skied jacket and base layer only and in some cases, just a windproof gilet over a fleece.
Eider, Schoffel, Salomon and TNF.
Skier brands! 😈
Last year it was base layers and trousers only and a standard round was one beer one water each.
Except the day it rained which was wet. Very wet. We had the hill to ourselves though.
Come on then Graham, name the boarder equivalent.
Had a look at Patagonia, Acteryx, Burton and a couple of others but they materials don't look that robust to me.
Am I asking too much for robust and breathable?
Come on then Graham, name the boarder equivalent.
Well if you've been following the thread you know that I've been looking myself after previous disappointments. Not tried my new jacket yet so I can't really recommend it yet (well.. I can.. this is STW after all 😉 )
What's your budget like?
If you're looking for mid-level boarder brands then try:
Burton, Volcom, Westbeach, Ride, Bonfire.
Depends on your style really. I'm too old for the multicolour clownsuit look, too untalented to carry off anything ironic and too out-of-touch to be trendy, so I tend to stick to large solid colours.
Am I asking too much for robust and breathable?
I think robust, very waterproof and very breathable is heading towards [i]The Bontranger Paradox[/i], especially if you throw in "reasonably priced".
Airblaster
http://www.myairblaster.com/ Great design and tested in Sasquatch
re St Anton not up for a VW especially not a yellow one
