Is it just the range or are there more features?
Looks like the [url= http://www.gearreview.com/beacons.asp#red ]Red 457[/url] was a dual-antenna combined digital and analog transceiver dating from about 2000?
I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable will speak up - but from what I've read the biggest change has been the move towards pure digital transceivers, faster processing and triple antennas.
The guy at BeaconReviews says this about triple antennas:
Almost all new digital transceivers have three antennas (compare them). These avalanche transceivers not only offer the directional and distance benefits of two-antenna beacons, but they almost eliminate spike problems. You won't notice the spike handling when searching for a beacon a few inches under the snow (as is typical during practice), but bury it under a meter or two of snow and the difference is significant. Three antennas on a searching beacon ensure that antennas are pointed in three-dimensions (i.e., forward/back, left/right, and up/down). The beacon can then use the relative strength of the signal on each antenna to precisely locate the transmitting beacon....
In my testing, having two-or-more antennas is the most important factor in performing a rapid coarse search in a variety of conditions with a variety of rescuers. And three-antennas greatly improve the fine search in all but very shallow burials. I know some old-timers will disagree, but only until they do serious tests with multi-antenna transceivers. I was a hardcore Ortovox F1 fan and swore that multiple antenna transceivers were for dummies—until I used one and discovered the benefits. That isn't a sales pitch, rather it is based on my experiences with many beacons.
I've got one of the RED 457, which was a Burton-branded version of the Mammut Barryvox Opto 3000.
It's similar to the Tracker and was around at much the same time. Side-by-side, I prefer it, and it seems to do less weird stuff, but they're pretty similar.
The main change since that generation of transceivers has been the shift from 2 to 3 antennas, which makes a big difference when searching for a transceiver buried to a more realistic depth. Most people practise searching for a beacon hidden just below the surface, and it's only when it's buried a bit deeper that you see the benefit of the 3rd antenna. The second big change is in software. All of the current crop of top-end beacons have very useful software for dealing with multiple burials. These are generally very effective in use. The first-generation digital transceivers also had a pretty short effective range. This is much better in the new generation.
I've currently got a Barryvox Pulse, which is excellent, although the simpler Element version would be better for most people. The pulse has a lot of features only likely to be used by avalanche professionals. The Ortovox 3+ is also good, as is the S1 (S1+?). I haven't used the latest Pieps, but I've heard good things. I'm not keen on some of the thinking behind the Tracker 2, but I do hear good things about the Tracker 3.
GrahamS, for £42 as a training tool or a spare, it's not a bad shout. Certainly a whole lot better than nothing.
[b]GrahamS[/b] and [b]Stevomcd[/b] - thanks for the info.
That's interesting about the 3rd antenna, especially the more accurate range and depth. I remember at the time of buying mine there was an awful lot of people saying, "Well, it might say 60m on the box, but I wouldn't expect that in the real world."
To be fair ours have always worked faultlessly, but then they've only ever been used in simulations and like you say the trannies you're looking for are at most 2-3 feet under the snow. Perhaps it might be time for an upgrade …
A bit of transceiver science - the radio signal from the buried transceiver comes out in a curved path. This is why you will generally walk along an arc when searching from a distance, rather than travelling in a straight line towards the target.
When the transceiver is buried just below the surface, this makes little difference in the final search phase. The point where you have the strongest signal on your receiving unit will be right above the target.
If the target transceiver is buried deeply, the curved path that the radio transmissions take to reach the snow surface means that your strongest signal ("hot spot") may be some distance away - easily as much as 2 or 3 metres if searching with a single-antenna beacon. This means you have a lot of ground to cover with the probe and the final (probe) phase of the search will take a long time. As the radio waves are transmitted in a symmetrical pattern, you will also very likely have more than one "hot spot", leading to confusion and an even wider area to probe.
2-antenna beacons reduce this effect somewhat, but they can also become confused by the multiple hot spot effect. The 3rd antenna (vertically oriented) makes a massive difference here, and, in training exercises, it's pretty common to hit the buried target on the first or second strike with the probe. It's this situation in which I've seen the Tracker get very confused, it really put me off - I'd previously been a fan.
Regarding range - I would say that the first-gen digital units aren't reliable beyond about 30m. Latest generation digital units are much better (50-60m?) but you still can't beat old-school (and a good set of ears) for the very best range.
Do the latest ones with the third antenna still suffer from the "magnetic field" shaped search pattern, Stevemcd? I can't see any reason to change if the main problem is still trying to work out where the signal is coming from.
The advantage of Recco is that it point straight at the victim. Always worth having a Recco or two on you BTW. More and more resorts have portable detectors.
Very interesting info here.
Ignore my post Steve, rereading your post and Googling suggest the three-antenna things point straight at the victim from anywhere. So it might be time to upgrade.
is it best to book ski and boots rentals ?
have never bothered in the past but that was 15 years ago .
if so , any recommendations for somewhere in Les Gets ?
Also, has anyone seen the massive phatttt dumps of snow hitting the slopes? Was looking (longingly!) at the Serre Che webcams earlier. It looks superb! Someone's already got some turns in out there as well!
Yes, looks nice. Surprising amount of snow there.
From what I saw on the news [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30118783 ]the skiing looks pretty good in New York at the moment[/url]!
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@CFH yes I have, will be at White a Room Chalet in 3 weeks, will try not to break myself this time !
@cchris, yes you can get some really good deals by booking online especially from shops away from town centre. Will get you a recommendation.
Whistler mountain is opening this weekend. Blackcomb probably the weekend after. There's very little snow on the lower half of the mountain so it's going to be lift up/lift down for a while yet. The lack of snow in the valley since I've arrived has pushed me to buy a new bike, that's how frustrating it is!
Big resorts in CO are open now, there was a good little storm last week.
No snow in Saalbach yet. It's got 4 weeks to turn up 😆 😯
Lyngen Alps looking good too.
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photo from Magic Mountain Lodge's fb page
Lidl have got Ski Wear in from today.
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-2491.htm?id=428
Looks pretty ropey but some extra thermals or socks never hurt and there is kids stuff too.
Aldi have their ski event on 04 Dec.
Might be worth it for socks, extra gloves for the little one, etc
Let's try that again:
chutes down to the road:
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If any mods want to get rid of the flickr "photo not found" link, that's be great. It's rather unsightly.
Anyone else suffer from skiers thumb and more importantly how to avoid it.
Yeah don't fall is the first rule :-)but I've being skiing for years & still have the occasional little struggle with gravity. Last season i had a little tumble & yet again trapped my thumb & its very painful. Ta
[b]nedrapier[/b] that's looks great
Sweet baby J that looks glorious ned.
How tough is it to ride? Doesn't look toooo steep but hard to tell from that shot.
I imagine you have to be pretty careful with avi risk? Nowhere to run if it goes bad.
Graham, no clue! I don't know where it is or how steep it is. a lodge in the LA posted it on their page. They tagged the photo "kjosen chutes" so it could be either side of the fjord, and if it's the south, there's no road.
starrman82 - are you using the straps on your poles? If so, are you putting them on properly?
Incorrect use of the straps means that, when you let go of the pole, it stays in place in your hand so you fall on it and break your thumb. If you use the straps properly, then when you let go in a stack, it should fall away.
See here: http://www.trails.com/video_710_use-ski-poles.html
Thanks to this thread and the beautiful people contributing to it, I had a proper think about tranceivers and I'm retiring my F1 and bought a 3+ from Facewest. It's always been picked up quickly by others', it's got the best range I've seen (90m+) but I'm not a pro guide, I'll very likely be quicker searching with a modern digi, and it's one thing less to get in the way of the trust dynamic when new partners see the analogue! (I remember a guide who kept saying "analogues go first!" I didn't complain!)
Best price I found was FaceWests, £224, and that's before the points they give you - worth 10% of the purchase off your next order.
Correct, that's £22.40, maths fans! So I ordered another set of those Coll-Tex Pro skins so the lovely wife and I both have a set. Free with the points and £5 spare.
Sent them an email saying "you may as well sling these in the same bag, save some postage" got one straight back saying "thanks, will do". Then another half an hour later saying they'd been dispatched.
Very impressed. If you're buying stuff, check them out. Good on returns too.
I'm also sending the F1-alike to Noble Custom, UK distributors for Ortovox. They said they'd send it to Ortovox in Germany for testing and repair if possible/necessary. Nothing to pay if they can't/won't/don't need to do anything, so I'll know whether to keep it for practice or keep it for a spare to use.
Les Gets starting to fill in...
I'll be interested to hear what you think to it when you get it, [b]nedrapier[/b]. I'm umming and ahhing about replacing our transceivers and that's the front runner at the moment.
mrsrapier has one, I did a lot of looking around when I bought that one, I wanted something that was intuitive and easy to use, and the reviews and feedback were very positive. It's also got a fancy feature which switches the transmitting antennae acording to how it's buried.
The strongest signal is picked up when the searcher's beacon is aligned with the victim's beacon - imagine them both lying flat on the desk - at 90 degrees to each other = OK, pointing in the same direction = better, pointing in the same direction, one behind the other = best. Now balance the "victim" on it's end, so the antenna is pointing straight up all of the option above are much worse. The 3+ (and probably others ?) switches transmitting to the antenna running along the end of the beacon, so it's on the same plane as the searcher's beacon, held parallel to the ground.
thought it was easier if we have the same one, I know how hers works better so the refresh/practices are easier.
The Tracker 3 has just(ish) been released, which is supposed to be good, might be worth waiting to see what the feedback is on that.
dp.
Barryvox Element would be my recommendation for most people again.
I like the 3+, but there has been some minor quirkiness reported: https://www.wildsnow.com/4068/ortovox-3-avalanche-beacon-2/
I've seen one do exactly this, which was a wee bit off-putting. If it's your own transceiver and you're familiar with it, no worries to push on through, but I'd just been handed a friend's one to try, it was a bit confusing.
My recommendation would be to give stevo's comments a lot more weight than mine! 🙂
stevomvd, thanks for the reply, no i don't use straps at all and just face the consequence of potentially loosing a pole. My problem is i don't let go of the pole easily if i do fall. I was just wondering if anyone else suffered the same & if they found a cure.....apart from stay upright!
Saw these on ebay but really cant see if they'd work.
starrman82 - I guess the only other advice is "tuck and roll". Sticking your arms out is always asking for trouble (in MTB and snowboarding as well as in skiing).
I retired my Ortovox F1 a few years ago and replaced it with a 3+
Barryvox Element also has lots recommendations, but whichever you buy, practice & familiarity is key, especially when moving from coarse to fine search.
Like you Nedrapier I purchased from Facewest - never had anything but a great service from them. They upgraded the firmware in the 3+ for free last year*
Facewest have become my regular one-stop-shop for outdoor & backcountry kit. Not always the cheapest online price, but factor in the 10% 'loyalty points', free postage & no quibble returns and they are very reasonable indeed.
*The firmware upgrade apparently addresses some of the 'quirks' that stevomcd mentions
I made my return to indoor riding last night at Chill Factore.....think I've had just over 3 months off so I'd lost some of my rad sik freestyle moves 😳
Some serious disquiet amongst the regulars about how Chill Factore, especially Freestyle nights are being run. Not sure if any regulars post on here or not?
In other news, I still haven't booked a trip yet.....went to book Tignes through Action Outdoors for Feb half term, but funds have been seriously depleted by Mrs B's 30th which is happening in March....I may well pull the trigger today though!
Update, I have now booked and paid for Tignes Feb Half term 2015 8)
Farewell any sense of financial stability 😯
Another recommendation for Facewest, I've had loads of stuff from them over the years. Free upgrades on firmware on my kit as well.
Tom B - if you think your other half's birthday limits snowsports funds, try taking children on ski holidays.
How much?! 😯 😳
Worth every penny though.
Some Lake District skiing
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Sweet, just picked up a Westbeach Backcountry jacket on eBay. Brand new with tags for £126 🙂
By the way, if anyone is after a wardrobe refresh then Westbeach still have a sale on their website with items left from last season. Bargaintastic.
Also I saw a very nice Surfanic jacket in TinkyMax the other day for just £50!
Yeah, just refreshed my snowboard kit from the Westbeach site. Better than instructor discount!
There's a actually a lot more choice than there appears to be as well, surprising number of colours and sizes available - searching/filtering doesn't seem to work very well.
Got to be honest, I wasn't blown-away by the quality / durability of my last set of Westbeach clothing, but at that price I'll take my chances!
Well my jacket last year was a high end £300 Burton [ak] and it eventually went back for a full refund because it wasn't waterproof and fell apart. Westbeach have served me well in the past but not had one in years so I'll see how this one goes.
Well my jacket in 2004(?) was a high end £300+ Burton [ak] and it eventually went back for a full refund because it wasn't waterproof and fell apart.
