The Annual Running thread - beginners/ultras/whatever

Hey Duckman!

How much do you want for it?

Weather looking great for Manchester tomorrow...good luck to all runners. I'll be the skinny balding man with cropped grey hair...easy enough to pick out then 🙂

And I’ll be the tall, bearded fella with a purple vest, short shorts and a head band.

Just had the customary pile of pasta and a pint. Bit of water and it’ll be time for bed.

Best of luck to all you mofos doing the GM Marathon. Glad to hear conditions sound good. Have a good one all. 👍

Good luck to everyone tomorrow. I’ll be the big unit all in black or grey except for my Hoka speedgoats which are bright yellow, aiming for 4.30.

Anyone running Sheffield half tomorrow do say hi to me - I'll be wearing a flag with "1:30 pacer" on it 🙂

Good luck, enjoy the plod 🙂

Heehee, thanks.

Just started running again as it's one of the only pieces of equipment I understand in the gym (supporting the other half by going with her)

One thing I have just bought though is a Milestone Pod, only used it once so far (9pm and knackered but wanted to test it). Got some very good information about my running technique out of it, plus I am able to use Zwift with it (making running more interesting for me). Hoping it will give me some nicer stats next time when I'm not half asleep.

Here's what it can do if anyone's interested:

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Reminder to self: if you go out for a run when it's pissing down don't forget to apply vaseline... #sorenips

Sunburnt too which seems completely unfair. Anyway 10K done today, 25K tomorrow 🙂

Nip tip - tight compression tops are your friend.

Manchester done. Went off fast looking for a 3:30, blew up around 16 miles and crawled in with 3:50. A perfect example of how not to pace a marathon. If anyone sees me anywhere near the entry page of a marathon then feel free to give me a slap. Shattered.

Decent PB for me, happy to be under 2:50 though had been hoping for a little better. Perfect day for running.

4.58 for me with a bit left in the tank at the end. Was a perfect day for it.

Great times folks!

Managed to whack more than a minute off my 5k PB today, 21.39, I reckon the holy trail sub 20 is achievable this year!.

Getting my hydration sirted defo helping.

Great effort lads, just entering and getting to the start line feeling “ok” is a huge accomplishment 👍💪💪

I had planned a run this afternoon, went for a surf early on in the pissing rain.. then watched P-R and then....

I got my roadie out for a spin 🤩🤠🤠🤠 1st time in 18mths, I feel so damn proud I’ve come out for a pint. It’s back on the hanger, with the tyres pumped up.. let’s take a guess at how long it will be before it’s next outing.... 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🕺

Well then, woke up this morning and feel like I've been hit by a truck. Everything aches, calfs, thighs, back, shoulder, absolutely battered. Looking back, I'm still not sure why I thought I could do a 3:30 when my training was so far behind where it needed to be and I only just scraped under 4 hours in Brum when the training had gone almost perfectly. I am clearly an idiot.

Today will be spent under the influence of ibuprofen and coffee as I try and fight through a day of work. May have a spin on the turbo later and try and release some tension from my seized muscles.

Related, anyone got any good ideas how to turn this fitness/fatigue from marathon training into a fast 10k time? I'm doing the Birmingham City 10k in exactly 1 month and want to good time (OK, more accurately, I want to beat my wife's PB which is 44m dead). Current PB is 48:24 and I ran the first 10k yesterday in 50:51. I'm thinking intervals and lots of them, that sound about right?

I always find that doing the long run (marathon) training naturally gives my speed a boost.

The Wednesday after London last year I did a 5M road race and PB'd, perhaps I didn't work hard enough at London 🙂

I did a slow 6 on the Monday after, gave myself Tuesday off and raced Wednesday.

A month later I did a 10K and PB'd that too.

I would say keep the mileage up over what you would normally do and add in some intervals and hill sessions if you aren't already doing them, see how that goes.

Yeah I generally PB in some fun runs in the following month or two - even did in a parkrun the following Saturday once when I wasn’t really trying. Start with some gentle runs and ease into intervals when you are feeling properly bouncy again. Don’t be surprised if it takes a couple of weeks.

Just jealous. Injured again...... calf went pop at Park Run this weekend (not badly, sore but i can walk on it, it's not a massive tear or anything).  I don't really understand it, if i thought I was overdoing it to much too soon or not allowing past injuries to recover but i hurt it on 17.3, recovered to some gentle runs (1-2 miles) after about 10 days; ran a gentle 5k on the 30th and was fine after, more short gentle runs since then, and then it goes again.

I've been in physio, he reckons it's years of cycling tightness so have been stretching to try to lengthen it and build some strength and just build it up with gentle easy paced runs.

Looking at the dates / numbers above, is it just impatience on my part, and i need to give it 4-6 weeks to make sure it is properly recovered?

More time needed I reckon Jon. When mine went in mid November last year I did no running for 6 weeks with lots of stretching and exercises (mainly calf lowers) then eased myself back in with 1km on a treadmill 3 times for a week after a lots of warming up then took it slowly from there. Took at least 10 weeks from stopping to it feeling good again.

This will not be what you want to hear but then it wasn't what I wanted to hear at the time either!

Lunge,

I am not a doctor...

There's a fair bit of info on the internet suggesting ibuprofen and marathons aren't a good combo, even for a few days after in recovery. The general gist of the articles I've read was that they both put a lot of similar strain on the kidneys that can cause problems. it seems that paracetamol is less dangerous in this situation.

I'm no expert, but have a quick Google before going to far down the ibuprofen recovery route.

Also, congrats on finishing in under four hours. Might not have been the target but it's still a great achievement so enjoy that rather than being yourself up.

I'm a bit of an idiot too when it comes to targets. I've never run a marathon myself yet, but I'm still thinking ofI like to try and run one this spring, and can I get under 4, of maybe 3.45, .... Or 3.30 .😀

Conditions today and my attitude towards them..

Went out this afternoon for a bit of a plod, nothing in particular planned as I've just had a couple of big weeks on the bike so it was just a case of running until I got bored or something started to ache. needless to say it was the latter that stopped the run!

With the state of the weather recently it's got me thinking about running shoes. I've currently got a pair of Brookes Cascadia that the running shop sold me and so far, so good. Nothing's hurting more than I'd expect when I'm running so my guess is that they're ok for me. I very rarely run on the road as I've got plenty of trails nearby to run on but as everything's so wet and slippy and has been for some time the Brooks are struggling with grip.

Any suggestions for decent shoes to try which will have a decent amount of grip when it's wet, muddy and slippery or is it just a case of trial and error? Ideally I don't want to spend a fortune on them!

Inov8 something or other.

There are loads to choose from so have a look at their website.

You can pick up various styles pretty cheap on sportshoes, but it's knowing which ones to get.

I've just got some trail talons and also some x-talons.

The trail talons seem better for hard trail (seem Ok on tarmac) and a bit of mud and the x-talons better for more mud and a bit softer ground, but are fine on hard trails although they have more stud like tread. They don't have much in the way of cushioning though if that's your thing. The cascadias will be much more cushioned than the inov8's.

Don't get Sal SpeedX3's unless you know they will suit you.. Which means trying them on.. and that means going into a shop.. then buying online no doubt..

Don’t get Sal SpeedX3’s unless you know they will suit you.. Which means trying them on.. and that means going into a shop.. then buying online no doubt..

I've been looking at the Salomon shoes. My local shop stocks them so I'll be popping in to see how they fit. Alarmingly, I'll just buy them there rather than online as they've been pretty good when I've bought stuff from them previously.

Love my Hoka speedgoats for mixed trail and road running. Got a set of sal speedcross 4s and they are great for pure off road but they are bloody uncomfortable to run long distances on hard surfaces

Early bird entry for Manchester next year has just arrived in my inbox, they know there timings don't they? Give it a day so the pain subsides and you're left with a lovely glow in your legs, your memories are now of the achievement and not of the discomfort. I vowed I'd never run another marathon, and that I certainly wouldn't run one in the spring that involved a winter training schedule. Yet still I want to click on the e-mail...

I've managed to delete it, it's the best for everyone...

The new Speedgoats look better than the old ones. i find the older version a bit too unstable, generally very good but the new ones have a slightly wider base.

The Mafate's are my favourite. Could run all day in them.

@theotherjonv

I have experience of calf issues similar to yours and here are my thoughts which you can ignore if you want 🙂

Dont bother stretching it doesnt do what people think it does (blue touch paper lit)

To resolve my issues I found a good local physio who is also a keen triathlete so is sports interested which IMO is one of the important factors. After assessment he found some scar tissue which he broke down over 3 quite painful sessions. I did regular concentric and eccentric calf raise/lowers to build strength. It was gone after those 3 visits and I am building my fitness gradually. As I understand when you damage your calf it repairs itself in a "haphazard" way which is prone to break down. The "frictional" massage breaks this tissue down and allows it to heal again but in a slower way, meaning the replacement tissue is more aligned to the previous muscle and has similar flexibility .

https://www.physio-pedia.com/Friction_Massage

Did you use your Clouds Lunge ?

One of our club members did a Bob Graham last year and described it as mostly a hard walk…

Some further thoughts on this...

Yesterday I did what would be the first 2 legs of an anticlockwise BG (Keswick-Honister, Honister-Wasdale Head). I carried (light!) camping kit and stayed over at Wasdale Head. The plan was to do the leg to Dunmail Raise today but the weather said otherwise so I cut it short.

Yesterday I didn't push too hard, spent a bit of time messing around plugging in waypoints to my watch and had a bag weighing about 6.5kg but my time for leg 1 was 5 mins over the time on a 21hr schedule and my time on leg 2 was 7 mins quicker than that of a 20hr schedule.

Now I know 2 legs is not the same as a round and I don't intend this to sound like a boast but it does lend credence to the idea that doing it in just under 24 hrs is basically a walk.

Are your timings based on a clockwise or anti clockwise round? A few are weighted to accommodate slowing down over time apparently?

It seems a slow run/walk will do it but consistency is the key across all 5 legs.

The schedule times were for an anticlockwise round from the Bob Wightman schedule calculator and I went in that direction so should be fairly accurate.

I'm not saying it's easy. The pace is very doable but I think most people who fail don't run out of time, something else goes wrong like injury or nutrition issues.

It seems a slow run/walk will do it but consistency is the key across all 5 legs.

I now realise what makes Ramsay's round that bit harder than the BG. It's much rougher underfoot and there are several big, hard climbs of a kind you don't get on the BG. This means that when you can run on the CRR you really do need to run to make up time whereas on the BG a more consistent pace is possible. 4kmh will still see you round CRR but there will be some harder running in that than in a BG. As evidence of that I know a couple of folks with fairly comfortable BG times who timed out or only just made the cut on CRR.

Did you use your Clouds Lunge ?

Not in the end, no, I used a well loved pair of ASICS Cumulus 18's. Felt I didn't have enough miles in them to use them, the risk of blisters or such like was too higher. I do like them so far, feel pretty fast and responsive, I've got a 10k in a month and a half a month later so will likely use them for that.

First race of the year at the weekend, Kilomathon in Edinburgh, 13.1k. Was full of the cold and thought about pulling out, but weather on the morning was great so thought F it might as well go for it.

Really nice course, leafy footpaths then the finish is in Murrayfield stadium where there was a section of spectators beside the finishing line.

Cold didn't actually seem to affect stuff that much, managed a 10k strava pb and was in top 4% (was vaguely aiming for top 10%)

Re cascadias - I went from them to inov8 roclite 280 for events where more grip were needed. The inov8 are lighter and indeed grippier, but don't have a rock plate so you definitely feel the occasional poke on rocky terrain. Having said that did the Illuminator trail 25k last time in them (80% rocky fire/singletrack) and feet were ok after

How did everyone get on at the weekend?

I did the 4th round of my 'race a half or above each month' at the Boston Marathon UK.

Very pleased with a pb and 4th place overall, plus got a little pink on the shoulders from seeing the sun for a while 🙂

Trunce tonight if my tight hammy can cope.

First run without purpose for ages. Not really training for anything, just went for a run. 8 miles, sunshine so I could get my top off, reasonable pace but more importantly it was just fun. Came back smiling like a loon, absolutely brilliant, really made me realise why I run.

Did my first Parkrun in five or six years at the weekend. The last one I did had no more than 100 runners there so it was a bit of a shock turning up on Saturday morning to see nearly 500 people getting ready to run!

I was hoping for something around 27 minutes so was fairly happy with my 25:25. I could have got a better time but I kept finding myself just settling in with slower groups rather than carrying on at my own pace. Starting near the back probably didn't help things either.

Back out for a steady plod this morning and I#m hoping that the warm weather this week will dry things up near me as everywhere seems to be a horrible boggy mess at the moment.

Run over Stanage in the rain at teatime. Consolation prize for the balmy evening's bouldering I'd hoped for in the face of the forecast. The forecast was right. That thing about 'things that don't kill you, making you stronger'? Questionable.

I did a 19k around QECP/Head Down on Sunday PM when the rain kicked in so altered my route into the forest more which meant lower pace and more climbing.. was a nice rattle around, but I’m getting a little bored of QECP these days so trying to limit the time spent there. Meeting up tomorrow at South Harting with two mates and plan is to do a “testing” climb up onto the Downs and back into the valley through Didling/Treyford and back.. should be two hours of squelch.. 🤦‍♀️

Last week was my first bigger week of training for the Bob Graham. Probably did a bit more than needed at this stage but it was the holidays and it's much easier to get the miles in when you're not working.

Many folk on here doing London?

@Spin

What is your training made up of for the BGR? I have always considered having a go but simply not having access to the ascents and descents has really put me off. Convinced my fitness (less so now) would have made it doable but at 53 I may be getting a bit too far past it 🙁

Edit: Sorry Spin went back and read what you posted earlier. Interesting your comments about it being a "walk" I think Billy Bland said as much.

Hey Surfer,

I did Charlie Ramsay's Round in 2016 and my training consisted of building up to a peak of about 70-80 miles and more importantly about 6-7000m of climbing per week. I built up to this over a period of about 3 months then had a 2 week taper, it worked very well as I had no issues on the day. The key things for me were back to back long, very hilly runs over a weekend and also on a Friday evening once the nights got lighter. It's worth noting though that I had a very good base of hill fitness from years of winter climbing and ski touring which I think is probably a better basis for a big round than being a runner. I also think that a longer period of less miles/climbing might suit some folks better but it all depends on your background.

My plan for the BG is similar but I've come on a bit in the last 2 years and I'd like a decent time so I'm going to include some races in my prep to keep my pace up.

I am lucky in that I live in Inverness and don't have kids so getting the hilly miles in is less of an issue than for some people.

Plenty of folks in their 50s have done the BG I'm sure so go for it!

Actually, I'm talking pish. Just looked back at movescount and peak weeks pre CRR were more like 55 miles and 5-6000m and it seems I was generally doing that on one mid week run and 2 longer weekend ones. Fickle memory!

I'm doing the BG on 9th June. We did legs 4 and 5 plus the run out from Honister to Wasdale last weekend.  It was all clagged out but we did ok.  https://www.strava.com/activities/1497303519.   Hoping for a sub 20hr round.  I think getting on the terrain is key for downhill conditioning. I belive the ascent can be trained for by cycling. Know a few top fell runner's who do a lot of cycling.

I've been sitting on the fence this week as to whether I should buy some Merrel Vapour Glove 3 shoes for running in.

I ran for a minute the other day in relatively minimal trainers (a pair of very flexible old low cut Vans), was ok but didn't want to over do it as I haven't run for well over two years.

Last time I ran I was a complete beginner, and it was only because I had fractured my wrist and couldn't cycle. Gave myself shin splints and so gave up, but it's one of those body movement things I feel I should be capable of doing.

I would rather spend less than what the Vapour Glove 3 cost, but I haven't seen any others for less with as good a minimal heel as these.

Went for my first run in 2months yesterday after getting an injury, injury still present, quite a bummer really, I even saw two different professionals to look at this injury to get it sorted. Back to the drawing board for me...sigh

Cheers Spin!

well done with Ramsay and best of luck with the BG

London at the weekend is looking like it's going to be a warm one 🙂

Taper time at the moment, although 50km in the first 3 days of the week probably isn't everyone's idea of a taper - couple of days off now I think.  Took the magic Vaporfly 4% shoes out for their virgin outing yesterday morning, felt relatively normal, not completely revolutionary, so we shall see if they have any effect on Sunday.  Goal is sub 2:30, will be trying to keep as close to 3:30km as possible, which allows for the GPS going a bit wonky a couple of times around docklands and the tunnels along the embankment.  Will be aiming not to do a Calum Hawkins :O

Cheers, Rich

Best of luck Rich I ran it in 96 although a bit slower than 2:30! It was a lovely spring/summers day, nothing unusual. A guy I run with still mentions the 96 heatwave like it was some unusual event that somehow binds us together!

I remember jogging the first 16 miles with mates then running the last 10 on my own "slightly" faster 🙂

Good luck TF - and anyone else racing/running this weekend.

I'm glad I got my marathon out of the way last weekend. I'm rubbish when the mercury rises so it would have probably been a lot slower or a disaster.

It only got up to 15 deg I think but that was enough for me.

This 🏃 in warm weather is rather interesting.

I'm sweating like a pig in a butchers.

Is this what summer running is like? It's not even that sunny or hot here in Stirling either....

Love the Sun. Spent 2 weeks in Kos years ago and trained every day in the heat (July) came back and won the county 10k track champs on a hot day 🙂

@ Surfer - you'd done the conditioning and executed on the day - great work.

We never seem to get more than 2 days of heat* in South Yorkshire, so can never get enough conditioning in 🙂

* 20 degrees on a good day!!!

I don't stop here in Madrid in summer, although I do usually aim for higher up the mountains and start earlier than I would in winter. Temperatures usually run to 35C in July...

@surfer - I've not done the BG round, but I've done similar distance ultras. Make sure you do back-to-back runs, get used to running on tired legs. Maybe a shorter run on Friday (10k, say), then a decent long outing in the mountains on Saturday (30+K, 1800-2000m+). Then another short run on Sunday. Usual rules apply: train with whatever you're planning on using on the big day. Poles would probably be a good idea, a backpack obviously, etc. etc.

Beautiful day 💥☄️☄️

Finally met up with matyboy near Cocking and had a right old rattle in blistering sunshine and temps easily in the early 20’s.. sweating you say? Oh YES 🥊🥊🥊🥊 awesome.

What a difference a week makes eh.. last week sloppy rained out trails, today hard drypack and open views and vistas as far as the eyes can see.

Good luck everyone in the London Marathon, sadly won’t be waving you past my appt (as we’ve done in previous years) enjoy the Plod 👍

@surfer – I’ve not done the BG round, but I’ve done similar distance ultras. Make sure you do back-to-back runs, get used to running on tired legs. Maybe a shorter run on Friday (10k, say), then a decent long outing in the mountains on Saturday (30+K, 1800-2000m+). Then another short run on Sunday. Usual rules apply: train with whatever you’re planning on using on the big day. Poles would probably be a good idea, a backpack obviously, etc. etc.

Thanks Mogrim. Appetite for training has never been an issue, injuries have been 🙁

Also used to doing back to back runs (often ran twice a day in my youth) I think the poles may be a good idea, i am a bit of an Alf Tupper type but if I do have a go then I think I will need them for the descents.

Thought I’d surprise the lads this morning with sprint intervals instead of the usual pyramids. Quads and hammies are singing their own song this afternoon. 😬

@DD have you raced yet to test the effectiveness of your early morning regime??

@surfer, you might have missed my infrequent posts (I even bloody name-checked you!). Started off the year with a porky 25.19 parkrun (flat - and I got badly held up at the back) and a week later parkrun (hilly) at Bristol was just under 25.

last parkrun (hilly) a few weeks ago was 23.14 and my last (strictly) timed flat 5k was down to 21.41 but hoping I’d have sped up a bit more since then. My running partner (who wasn’t entirely convinced when we started out) has knocked 5 mins off his HM and run his first sub 45 10k. It’s fair to say he’s convinced now  😀

We’ve had a new guy join us a few weeks ago and have been going easy on him - interestingly enough, we both remarked on how difficult it was to run more slowly to let him bed in. Even in 3-4 weeks, he’s already running faster now.

Next is to start mixing in some hill work and a bit more sprint stuff now that the mornings are brighter.

Again, thanks for the advice. It really has worked. Between 6 and 7 kg lost since beginning of the year as well - which probably helps with speed too.

Excellent, well done DD, significant gains 🙂 Sub 20 should be imminent!

Can we talk groins?

After solving the painful top of foot issue (slacker shoes), I am now having a niggly ache down inner groin. I am being rubbish at stretching - any suggestions for a few stretches post run to help this issue?

Tried a roller ball thingy?

I agree about foam roller. You can also use a tennis ball for piriformis, IT band which I have found causes groin issues when its tight. Easiest stretch is to sit with a straight back and heals together, bringing them up by pulling them with your hands to your groin until you feel a bit of tension then hold for 30 secs.

any suggestions for a few stretches post run to help this issue?

Oh dear ... the 'Stretching Police' will be along shortly telling you that all stretching is a 'myth' ... 😉

You can also use a tennis ball

personally I prefer a 'lacrosse' ball to a tennis ball, as they don't squish quite as easily!

OK, so colleague just walked into the office to discover yours truly behind a table going for this move, only it seems a 44 year old chubster bloke doing it in work office is 'surprising'....

turbo, I'll be very interested to hear your views on the magic shoes (and results!), I'm probably going to spring for a pair now they are on sale again.

it seems a 44 year old chubster bloke doing it in work office is ‘surprising’

It was more the bum sculpting leggings and strappy top, tbh.

Strappy top? What top...?

I'm a very infrequent runner these days, effectively told to stop running over ten years ago by an ortho surgeon which is why i got into mtb more.  However, my left knee has been feeling stronger these last couple of years after taking Glucosomine Sulphate for about 4 years now.  So every now and then I go for a gentle 3-4 miles just to enjoy running.

However, a few weeks back I went out after quite a break, I plodded along for 4 miles and later in the day was feeling it a little in my legs but nothing unremarkable.  I sat down on the sofa and something immediately above my right knee sounded like it snapped!  Seriously it was a loud snapping noise!   So afterwards it was sore and worse walking down stairs.  Needless to say Ive rested it for a long while, but when I least expect it, it goes when walking downstairs and is bloody painful.  It then reverts to being sore and then okay.

I reckon its the tendons/ligaments that attach the muscle to the bone, so not sure theres anything I can do but rest it.  I'm approaching 57, so clearly healing is slowing down!  Any thoughts would be welcome.

EDit:  I ran the 97 Marathon with 2 days notice when a friend dropped out!  Good luck to all running tomoz....remember, you can always go faster in the last five miles if you are able, until then keep it steady.  One can get carried away on the day......literally! 🙂

Captain, where are you seeing the Vaporfly 4% available?  I ended up paying somewhat over the odds via eBay....

Despite historically doing quite well in the heat, I'm not too upset that it's supposed to be a little cooler than originally expected on Sunday, although this means I don't have any ready-made excuses!

Cheers, Rich

turbo, they are just out again. sportsdirect.com have them but I'm sure they will be all over the place soon. I saw a news article flagging it up a week or two ago.

Nice and lazy 4 miles to collect a car this morning. Morning sun is soooooo nice to run it, felt bloody lovely out and about. Nice smiling like a loon that the 3 hour drive I have to a wedding now will be done with miles in the legs.

Captain, splendid, thanks for that, depending on how tomorrow goes I might pre-emptively get another pair at a slightly more sensible price!

I bought a foam roller off eBay for £5, it’s still in shape 3yrs later. I don’t use it that often though, but it has helped “ease” the muscles .. might be worth a punt.

At my parents for the weekend building fences so was a tourist at the Henley park run this morning. Good fun cross country course with a nasty hill. Got all excited about being first in my age category till I realized I was the only one in it 🙁

Anyone else doing the 3 Peaks Fell Race next Saturday?

An old training buddy of mine had 10 yrs off then won his age group in his parkrun yesterday with 20:38. He is 65!